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How would you make the Legion more fun for both sides?

im curious, right now he’s in a pretty poor state

Comments

  • RushingSnipeBobRushingSnipeBob Member Posts: 58
    edited January 12

    He should be just as fun as looping is.

  • EntityDispleasedEntityDispleased Member Posts: 1,040
    I think they can do a lot with him if they remove his ability to vault pallets and windows. If he has some form of counterplay then no one has a right to complain about whatever buffs he gets.
  • NickenzieNickenzie Member Posts: 3,154
    Im curious, right now he’s in a pretty poor state
    It would be cool to have them be able to pin the survivor to the ground!

    Like if the survivor is healthy, the survivor will be able to kick the Legion off of them and run away. However, they do get injured in the progress due to the damage caused by the pin.

    Eventually, if the survivor is injured, the survivor will not be able to kick the Legion off of them and run away. The Legion will wear out the survivor and put them in dying state.
  • TatsuiChiyoTatsuiChiyo Member Posts: 119

    I feel like Legion's potential was hinted during their reveal trailer when they were running with David, pretending to be a Survivor only to attack when David looked away. I really feel their power should have been Subterfuge.

    Use the Darkness to take on the shape of a Survivor. Once in this mode, you copy the appearance of a random Survivor and terror radius is decreased to 0%. When in Survivor mode, you can crouch, fast vault through windows and over pallets like a normal Survivor.

    Now before you cry OP, the flip side is that to attack Survivors, you have to enter Killer mode. This can take two to three seconds where it shows you pulling out your weapon and putting on your mask, with add on's shortening the time it takes to switch between roles. Legion's perks would also make slightly more sense.

    Just imagine, you're working on a gen and from the darkness you see a timid Dwight come over to help. As he gets closer, he suddenly stands up and fades into the Legion, terror radius freaking out as you get slapped with a blade.

    But what if you main Kate like myself, and you know no one else is a Kate in your lobby, only to see Kate come walking up to you?

    I just think those would be fun mind games.

  • BossBoss Member Posts: 3,353

    Disable Legion temporarily.
    Replace the Power.
    Enable Legion.

    If you ask what Power: Anything that's not making Legion be a Survivor.
    With the current power mechanic, no amount of buffs and/or nerfs will make Legion fun for me.

  • Mister_xDMister_xD Member Posts: 1,442

    i doubt that can happen without replacing his entire power.
    this is what i think is the problem:
    for survivors its no fun to face him, as you can not get away from him. he will always run after you and cuntinuously catch up, due to the fact that he vaults stuff as fast as survivors do.
    for the killer its no fun, as he takes 4 to 5 hits to even down a survivor.
    the chase against legion is pointless and only stalling the inevitable: going down. however, due to the fact that a chase lasts as long as it does and also that you cant rly break it as survivor, this makes the whole thing just simply unfun.

  • Mc_HartyMc_Harty Member Posts: 1,630
    edited January 13

    His power is broken. He's so brain dead easy to play as and doesn't have any risks to make him feel rewarding. No matter what the devs do, it won't fix Legion as he currently is and his powers will need to be reworked immediately after Freddy. Legion just does not work for this game.

  • BoxingRougeBoxingRouge Member Posts: 498
    He’s just so badly designed that I don’t think buffs or tweaks won’t make him any better. 90% of legion players just slap on bloodhound and stare at the ground most of the game.
  • DwightsLifeMattersDwightsLifeMatters Member Posts: 1,328
    edited January 13

    He should be just as fun as looping is.

    Are you seriously complaining about looping? Looping became an absolute part of DbD, it's essential to do this as survivor to win. And as killer it's not boring if you mindgame loops. The only situation you can't mindgame is farm map. 

    Bloody shit, imagine people still discuss looping in 2019.
    Some people really want survivors to play like rank 20s by stealthing and running in a straight line. Mental.
  • DwightsLifeMattersDwightsLifeMatters Member Posts: 1,328
    My change to Legion: there needs to be a punishment if you miss a frenzy attack. As survivor, you sometimes manage to dodge a hit, but it doesn't matter cuz he has no cooldown and just swings again. Also, maybe, make him to a 115% movement killer and remove franks mixtape. So his ability is there to stab multiple people fast or just simply get his first hit for free
  • MilordMilord Member Posts: 158
    Give 200k BP to everyone everytime they play as or against Legion.
  • HatCreatureHatCreature Member Posts: 1,452

    @DwightsLifeMatters said:
    My change to Legion: there needs to be a punishment if you miss a frenzy attack. As survivor, you sometimes manage to dodge a hit, but it doesn't matter cuz he has no cooldown and just swings again. Also, maybe, make him to a 115% movement killer and remove franks mixtape. So his ability is there to stab multiple people fast or just simply get his first hit for free

    The idea sounds good but then console players would have another Nurse. Legion gets juked harder than any other killer on console because of frame rates. Hell, Dead Hard has problems on console for the same reason. This would break him for a huge portion of the player base.

  • HatCreatureHatCreature Member Posts: 1,452

    I don't like it at all but maybe making FF non-lethal would help. Give Legion 115% movement speed, FF can injure and inflict DW but the only way to down them is with a normal attack. To compensate make the Mend timer naturally longer so Survivors are effected more by it since the mechanic of depleting the timer is gone. Hitting someone with FF again only resets the Mend timer.

    This way DW would distract Survivors and be a threat if you don't Mend and Legion can be counterplayed like everyone else because he still has to vault with FF and he can't down you with it anymore so it's not a threat in a chase. You can loop him like everyone else, pallet stun, and hide, if he uses FF to jump over a window he has to do the cooldown to hit you normally. BUT, I think he should have collison when he exits FF because he would need to block the window with his body so you don't just hop over the window he just jumped through and got stunned over.

    This would make him fun to play against because he has counterplay, his power can distract you and injure you but never down you unless you're stupid. It would be fun to play as because you could run in front of Survivors going to window and block it like Wraith can, this would be a great excuse to have Exposed work on his power, and you can down people like a normal killer because you have normal walking speed. The only downside is that the FF will no longer feel as satisfying because you have no reason to hit people multiple times and using your power is only for distracting people. I guess Franks Mixtape can be changed to allow it to down people during FF, that would be powerful and like the normal FF but it's an add-on instead of basekit.

  • CasmCasm Member Posts: 7

    I've given this a fair bit of thought and I agree, his power needs to be reworked. I don't know if he needs a complete overhaul to the point where he's a totally different killer but definitely needs a rework.

    What I'd do is make him a 115% movespeed killer. Then change his power so that when you activate it, (and take these numbers with a grain of salt, testing would be required) the initial use of the power would slow you down to say 105% movespeed. But, you start to gain speed over time and it builds up so in a matter of moments you're back to regular run speed and shortly after that, you're running really fast, say capping out at 120% or whatever it needs to be. Then, make it so window hopping and pallet vaulting only works when you've exceeded your base 115% movespeed. This way pallets and windows are more effective against Legion since he has to ramp his power up before being able to vault them but can still circumvent them once he's built up the speed to do so.

    This would be both a buff and a nerf, since his base movespeed would be up with all the other 115% killers. This also gives both the survivors and the killer some more skill potential since now pallets and windows need a bit more forethought in how they can be used/circumvented. The overall activation of his power will likely need to be increased to make up for the fact that it has to ramp up to it's full effect, since the first bit of his power is actually him running slower and being unable to vault.

    The second thing I think I'd change is Deep Wounds. As someone has pointed out, all you need is Bloodhound and just stare at the floor until they have no choice but to stop and heal. No counter play there. I'd make it so Deep Wounds timer does not decrease while in the killer's terror radius. This incentives survivors to actually escape so they can begin healing and doesn't penalize them for breaking a chase, which is what they're supposed to do. However, I'd also add in skill checks for mending and treat the mending similar to snapping out of it. You need to do it all in one go and succeed all the skill checks. Failing a skill check would decrease the bleedout timer significantly, reset the mending process and give away your position. Also, mending would be quite noisy so if a killer is actively looking for you and you choose to mend while inside their terror radius, it's risky as they'll likely hear you. Perhaps allow Nurse's Calling to work on it.

  • Warlock_2020Warlock_2020 Member Posts: 513

    As a killer, I find his power pretty lame. Yes, it can be very effective. I can tunnel someone down easily, but that is no fun. That's about as much fun as face camping with LF. No thanks. As a survivor, I absolutely refuse to play a game with Legion. It is so mind-numbingly boring that I just run around until he catches me and then suicide on hook.

    How to fix him? Total rework. Legion needs a whole new power. Deep Wounds is a bad idea. Frenzy, in the form it is in, is a bad idea. Perhaps his power should be his duplicity. When he Frenzies, you see multiple of him all around. It is hard to tell which is the actual Legion. Much like the Dr.'s illusions, you see 4 Legion chasing you. Which is the real one? Hard to loop when you can't tell where he really is. That way, you don't need a "deep wounds".

    I don't know. I just wish BHVR developers had sat down and Brainstormed the pitfalls with this character before they ever got knee deep in working it up. Swing, and a serious whiff!

  • BigBlackMoriBigBlackMori Member Posts: 85
    edited January 13

    @EntityDispleased said:
    I think they can do a lot with him if they remove his ability to vault pallets and windows. If he has some form of counterplay then no one has a right to complain about whatever buffs he gets.

    So make the Killer total garbage?

    @DwightsLifeMatters said:
    RushingSnipeBob said:

    He should be just as fun as looping is.

    Are you seriously complaining about looping? Looping became an absolute part of DbD, it's essential to do this as survivor to win. And as killer it's not boring if you mindgame loops. The only situation you can't mindgame is farm map. 

    Bloody shit, imagine people still discuss looping in 2019.
    Some people really want survivors to play like rank 20s by stealthing and running in a straight line. Mental.

    Looping isn't fun for the Killer. At all. If legion should get reworked for being 'not fun', so should looping.

  • DwightsLifeMattersDwightsLifeMatters Member Posts: 1,328

    @EntityDispleased said:
    I think they can do a lot with him if they remove his ability to vault pallets and windows. If he has some form of counterplay then no one has a right to complain about whatever buffs he gets.

    So make the Killer total garbage?

    @DwightsLifeMatters said:
    RushingSnipeBob said:

    He should be just as fun as looping is.

    Are you seriously complaining about looping? Looping became an absolute part of DbD, it's essential to do this as survivor to win. And as killer it's not boring if you mindgame loops. The only situation you can't mindgame is farm map. 

    Bloody shit, imagine people still discuss looping in 2019.
    Some people really want survivors to play like rank 20s by stealthing and running in a straight line. Mental.

    Looping isn't fun for the Killer. At all. If legion should get reworked for being 'not fun', so should looping.

    I play killer a lot and I have fun outplaying survivors at jungle gyms and loop spots. The only situation it gets "boring" is farm map cuz you have to bruteforce nearly every pallet. But I use spirit fury and enduring, after 2 pallets I get my hit. Or if I zone the survivor into dead zones. Just git gud as Kilker, looping isn't that insane how it used to be in 2016.
  • KingBKingB Member Posts: 534
    edited January 13
    Get rid of the ability to lunge while in feral frenzy. And make any missed attack completely remove his bar. Make vaulting the same pallet more than once drain his bar a little. Then buff the hell out of him to counter-act these changes so he has counterplay and requires skill.
  • GardeniaGardenia Member Posts: 128
    I feel like some of you haven't really tried to understand Legions power no matter how "lame" it is. I like them so much, there are some perks out there that synergize with Legion very well Actually and some work arounds. His power should be more lerhal, so if there is a rework I would like more lethality.

    Deep wounds is a great concept and it would do better if it's base was at the speed of "stab wounds study" which makes it a threat to mend immediately, thus other legions won't feel the need to follow them after hitting them with frenzy.

    I have something in store for Legion though....
  • NickenzieNickenzie Member Posts: 3,154

    He should be just as fun as looping is.

    Are you seriously complaining about looping? Looping became an absolute part of DbD, it's essential to do this as survivor to win. And as killer it's not boring if you mindgame loops. The only situation you can't mindgame is farm map. 

    Bloody shit, imagine people still discuss looping in 2019.
    Some people really want survivors to play like rank 20s by stealthing and running in a straight line. Mental.
    Surviving is toxic btw. JK
  • DarkWo1f997DarkWo1f997 Member Posts: 1,015
    Remove the ability to down survivors with repeated frenzy strikes, and instead put them at 1% meter, if a legion strikes a survivor all the way to the 1%, a double stun is applied. 

    make it impossible for a survivor to go down from deep wounds while in the legion’s TR to prevent moonwalk exploits

    if a survivor enters the legion’s TR three times while moving towards them then their aura is revealed to the legion for 2 seconds. (This prevents survivors from trolling the legion)
  • GT_Legend2GT_Legend2 Member Posts: 704
    Gardenia said:
    I feel like some of you haven't really tried to understand Legions power no matter how "lame" it is. I like them so much, there are some perks out there that synergize with Legion very well Actually and some work arounds. His power should be more lerhal, so if there is a rework I would like more lethality.

    Deep wounds is a great concept and it would do better if it's base was at the speed of "stab wounds study" which makes it a threat to mend immediately, thus other legions won't feel the need to follow them after hitting them with frenzy.

    I have something in store for Legion though....
    I feel you may have misunderstood, he isn’t a fun killer to go up against at all, and there isn’t a very high skill cap to him. There is no goo dchase with him, all the survivor does is get hit and mend immediately, or get followed while the legion is staring at the ground so the survivor bleeds out. He is in need of a serious rework. If he’s fun to play as, that’s great. In fact that’s half the battle right there, but he is the lamest to go against. 
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