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Still struggling to understand the new Prove Thyself.

MantaManta Member Posts: 117
I was wondering if someone would be so kind as to answer if I've understood it correctly?

3 survivors on a gen together, each running Prove Thyself.

Each survivor would be repairing at 120% *minus* the standard debuff when multiple survivors repair together?

The "only one Prove Thyself effect" clause means the speed is 120% instead of 160% (pre-debuff)?

Thanks in advance

Comments

  • BongbingbingBongbingbing Member Posts: 1,423

    Each extra Survivor on a Generator all get a 10% penalty in time, Prove thyself counteracts the penalty and makes you Repair at 100% speed for everyone, so instead of 270% for 3 it would be 300%.

    I think that's how it is, almost sure.

  • BongbingbingBongbingbing Member Posts: 1,423

    @AntiJelly said:

    @Bongbingbing said:
    Each extra Survivor on a Generator all get a 10% penalty in time, Prove thyself counteracts the penalty and makes you Repair at 100% speed for everyone, so instead of 270% for 3 it would be 300%.

    I think that's how it is, almost sure.

    It won't help if you think about it in percentages, you have to put it into the game's "charges" system.
    Each survivor contributes 1 charge per second on a generator by default. Each survivor after the first decreases the charge contributions by -0.1. So two survivors on a gen both contribute 0.9. charges, for a total of 1.8 charges/second. Prove Thyself is just negating that, just removing the debuff.

    So, if four survivors are on a generator without prove thyself or toolboxes, they're all contributing 0.7 charges, for a total of 2.8 charges. You then divide the base charges required to complete the action by the charges contributed. A generator takes 80 charges to complete, divided by 2.8 making it take ~28.6 seconds to complete. Prove thyself makes it so that you are always contributing one charge per second, so if all four survivors have prove thyself, they contribute a total of 4 charges. 80 divided by 4 is 20.

    TL;DR, Prove Thyself makes a 4 to 8 second difference. It's not that bad.

    Oh okay thank you for the explanation :)

  • AntiJellyAntiJelly Member Posts: 1,103

    @Bongbingbing said:

    @AntiJelly said:

    @Bongbingbing said:
    Each extra Survivor on a Generator all get a 10% penalty in time, Prove thyself counteracts the penalty and makes you Repair at 100% speed for everyone, so instead of 270% for 3 it would be 300%.

    I think that's how it is, almost sure.

    It won't help if you think about it in percentages, you have to put it into the game's "charges" system.
    Each survivor contributes 1 charge per second on a generator by default. Each survivor after the first decreases the charge contributions by -0.1. So two survivors on a gen both contribute 0.9. charges, for a total of 1.8 charges/second. Prove Thyself is just negating that, just removing the debuff.

    So, if four survivors are on a generator without prove thyself or toolboxes, they're all contributing 0.7 charges, for a total of 2.8 charges. You then divide the base charges required to complete the action by the charges contributed. A generator takes 80 charges to complete, divided by 2.8 making it take ~28.6 seconds to complete. Prove thyself makes it so that you are always contributing one charge per second, so if all four survivors have prove thyself, they contribute a total of 4 charges. 80 divided by 4 is 20.

    TL;DR, Prove Thyself makes a 4 to 8 second difference. It's not that bad.

    Oh okay thank you for the explanation :)

    no problem! :)

  • NeskaNeska Member Posts: 132

    So is it slower than the old leader? or faster? or is it now with the new prove thyself the same speed (for example, 2 people on a gen and one has the perk) like a normal gen(before this patch) with 2 people without any of those perks? Was the penalty there before this patch?

    As you can tell I'm a bit lost here and would really appreciate it, if someone could explain that difference to me

  • ChesterTheMolesterChesterTheMolester Member Posts: 2,771
    edited January 2019
    Neska said:

    So is it slower than the old leader? or faster? or is it now with the new prove thyself the same speed (for example, 2 people on a gen and one has the perk) like a normal gen(before this patch) with 2 people without any of those perks? Was the penalty there before this patch?

    As you can tell I'm a bit lost here and would really appreciate it, if someone could explain that difference to me

    Leader is way faster but doesn't affect gens anymore. 

    Prove Thyself only counters a nerf that was implemented a long time ago. 

    Its now 10% faster no matter how many but only one can be active meaning if there are 3 people on a gen using it the total bonus will still be 10% not 30%
  • MantaManta Member Posts: 117
    Thank you to @AntiJelly for your time in explaining that :)
  • AntiJellyAntiJelly Member Posts: 1,103

    @Manta said:
    Thank you to @AntiJelly for your time in explaining that :)

    No problem dude!

  • NeskaNeska Member Posts: 132

    @ChesterTheMolester said:
    Neska said:

    So is it slower than the old leader? or faster? or is it now with the new prove thyself the same speed (for example, 2 people on a gen and one has the perk) like a normal gen(before this patch) with 2 people without any of those perks? Was the penalty there before this patch?

    As you can tell I'm a bit lost here and would really appreciate it, if someone could explain that difference to me

    Leader is way faster but doesn't affect gens anymore. 

    Prove Thyself only counters a nerf that was implemented a long time ago. 

    Its now 10% faster no matter how many but only one can be active meaning if there are 3 people on a gen using it the total bonus will still be 10% not 30%

    Oh okay, I think I got it now, thank you :)

  • Swiftblade131Swiftblade131 Member Posts: 1,779

    All this talk...

    So is it useful or not?

  • ChesterTheMolesterChesterTheMolester Member Posts: 2,771

    All this talk...

    So is it useful or not?

    The BP bonus is awesome. The effect on speed is decent but not game changing.

    If you use Bond and want BP you can run it. 
    You get over 3x the BP for completing a full gen with someone else compared to solo.
  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 1,916
    edited January 2019

    @Swiftblade131 said:
    All this talk...

    So is it useful or not?

    Actually, after this edit, the implications of Prove Thyself are huge.

    Now, if everyone solos, it takes about 160 seconds to do all 5 gens if I'm not mistaken. Working with teammates isn't going to make that number go down, it's going to actually make it rise, unless I think 3 or 4 Survivors are banging out all the gens together. If my estimations are correct, you could do all 5 gens if you have 3 people working together in about 110 seconds or so.

    Post edited by weirdkid5 on
  • MiloMilo Member Posts: 5,828

    @ChesterTheMolester said:
    Swiftblade131 said:

    All this talk...

    So is it useful or not?

    The BP bonus is awesome. The effect on speed is decent but not game changing.

    If you use Bond and want BP you can run it. 
    You get over 3x the BP for completing a full gen with someone else compared to solo.

    2 Gens with someone = Max Objective Category

  • Swiftblade131Swiftblade131 Member Posts: 1,779

    The Genrush is real?

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 1,916
    edited January 2019

    Hmm, I'm actually not sure how much this really affects the rush.

    Normally you have 3 Survivors repairing, and 1 being chased. If all 3 Survivors do all 5 gens solo, they'll have them done in 160 seconds.

    Now, let's say 2 of them work together, one solo's and the other is still being chased. The other 2 will be able to get 2 gens done in 80 seconds, whereas the last guy gets 1 done, making for 3 gens in 80 seconds, just like before.

    Now, the only way you would be able to reduce time after this is to coordinate the 3 Survivors to bang out the last 2 gens all together, making it about 153 seconds for all gen repairs. If they don't work together, then the last gen still takes 80 seconds to complete solo making 160 seconds overall still.

    And this doesn't include time running around finding the gen. In the end, Prove Thyself may POSSIBLY make a difference, but you really have to make sure you all work together and stay together. If you have 3 Survivors all stick together for the gens, I think the total time for all 5 gens could be reduced to about 133 seconds. This could be interesting.

  • fcc2014fcc2014 Member Posts: 4,348

    We need @Orion to figure this out. He usually has the proper math.

  • Dwight_FairfieldDwight_Fairfield Member Posts: 3,355
    edited January 2019
    I absolutely LOVE the buffs to Prove Thyself and Leader. Combined with Bond my Dwight is an efficiency machine. I can go around locating other survivors on gens or who are injured and get stuff done quick smart. Plus that blood points boost on Prove Thyself is really nice.

    Dwight is a rare survivor where are 3 perks are really useful.
  • MochanMochan Member Posts: 2,886

    The real use of Prove Thyself isn't the boost to generators (which is laughable at best -- people say Thanatophobia is bad and it's basically the same thing).

    The real reason to run Prove Thyself is for the BP boost.

  • MochanMochan Member Posts: 2,886
    edited January 2019

    @Dwight_Fairfield said:
    I absolutely LOVE the buffs to Prove Thyself and Leader. Combined with Bond my Dwight is an efficiency machine. I can go around locating other survivors on gens or who are injured and get stuff done quick smart. Plus that blood points boost on Prove Thyself is really nice.

    Dwight is a rare survivor where are 3 perks are really useful.

    Sorry dude, but the Leader changes are a NERF. They are not a buff.

    Who tags along to give buffs to someone for cleansing totems, sabotage and searching chests? These are solo actions and you being there is you twiddling your thumbs watching someone do work when you could be doing something else that's productive. And worse, you don't get any emblem or bloodpoints for it because you're, yup, not doing anything.

    The only activities where leader is helpful are: group unhooks (something that needs to be done against campers), healing (which doesn't happen that often, ask that Initiation Rite sitting in your dailies how many seconds of co-op healing you've done in the past month), opening exit gates (and again you sacrifice points for opening the exit game to let someone else do it, because that's more efficient), and yes! Doing generators. Oh I forgot, leader doesn't work on generators anymore.

    Leader is now a trash perk. It was already off-meta but with the introduction of Discordance and now the absolute nerf it got, it's trash.

  • Maelstrom10Maelstrom10 Member Posts: 1,727

    Honestly people i'm pretty sure people are under calculating prove thyself here tbh. having 2 survivors essentially already boosts gen speed a ton (though overall gen speed goes down yes, for the map wide gen rush) however using this on a 4 man gen, will not just allow the countering of the efficency penalty making you far faster, but if multiple people use it, along with toolboxes, you can easily do gens far faster then old leader/provethyself combo. now im not saying this needs a nerf at all. hell this is exactly the place i think it should be, especially with discordance now in the game and commonly run. It can only really break the game if survivors all bring tool boxes and a shroud. Even so just thinking about it in the actual percentages means that you can be doing a typical gen 20-30% faster.

  • Dwight_FairfieldDwight_Fairfield Member Posts: 3,355
    edited January 2019

    @Mochan said:

    @Dwight_Fairfield said:
    I absolutely LOVE the buffs to Prove Thyself and Leader. Combined with Bond my Dwight is an efficiency machine. I can go around locating other survivors on gens or who are injured and get stuff done quick smart. Plus that blood points boost on Prove Thyself is really nice.

    Dwight is a rare survivor where are 3 perks are really useful.

    Sorry dude, but the Leader changes are a NERF. They are not a buff.

    Who tags along to give buffs to someone for cleansing totems, sabotage and searching chests? These are solo actions and you being there is you twiddling your thumbs watching someone do work when you could be doing something else that's productive. And worse, you don't get any emblem or bloodpoints for it because you're, yup, not doing anything.

    The only activities where leader is helpful are: group unhooks (something that needs to be done against campers), healing (which doesn't happen that often, ask that Initiation Rite sitting in your dailies how many seconds of co-op healing you've done in the past month), opening exit gates (and again you sacrifice points for opening the exit game to let someone else do it, because that's more efficient), and yes! Doing generators. Oh I forgot, leader doesn't work on generators anymore.

    Leader is now a trash perk. It was already off-meta but with the introduction of Discordance and now the absolute nerf it got, it's trash.

    You say tomato.....but I don't see the leader changes as anything remotely like a nerf.

    Several times since the update today I've boosted healing, hex cleansing, opening exit gates, and unhooking. Its been terrific. I feel like an efficiency machine with it. That 25% boost is sublime. I couldn't care less about losing some points for opening the exit gate. If time of the essence, as it often is when the exit gates get powered, I would rather get those gates open 25% faster, get my 5k escape points, and the rest of my team out.

    Discordance was never a significant threat to Leader either. For the killers I have come across who do run it, rarely have I been chased off gens with another survivor. Except when you're down to the last two. But now that is no longer an issue for Leader, so happy days.

    But you know that saying; one man's trash is another man's treasure. I'll be keeping my killer Leader/Prove Thyself/Bond combo. Because its been awesome so far. The bloodpoints from PT are just the icing on the cake.

    Post edited by Dwight_Fairfield on
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