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What Perks do you see as Unhealthy design?

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  • JammyJewelsJammyJewels Member Posts: 610

    @Dwight_Confusion said:
    The idea behind perks is to get a varied play style...

    Exactly, which is why a perk that is for so many people part of their basic need of making the game enjoyable, should be part of their base-kit. Could've prevented all the awkwardness with older versions off BT and could've prevented the entire Mending mechanic. (:

    If they make it base, alter it so that you cannot heal whilst in a chase, and can only heal after 15 seconds of being out of a chase.
  • PhantomMask20763PhantomMask20763 Member Posts: 5,183

    Fire Up...My GOD IT'S SO OP!!! I REPORT EVERY PLAYER I SEE RUNNING THIS FOR ABUSING BROKEN GAME MECHANICS. FIRE UP TOO OP, PLS NERF. NO NO NO SAID MUMMY PIG

  • ShrimpTwiggsShrimpTwiggs Member Posts: 1,122

    Decisive Strike because it rewards failure for survivors and punishes killers for success. NOeD because it is easily countered by SWF but for solos it can screw you over, depending on your team. Dying Light because it promotes tunneling, which I know is fair play but it's still not very fun for the survivor, especially if they aren't even running an obsession perk. Monstrous Shrine, Beast of Prey, Thanatophobia, and No Mither because they are simply terrible.

  • JudgementJudgement Member Posts: 797
    edited January 2019
    For Survivors, Decisive Strike is the most unhealthy in my opinion. You take this perk and literally punish the Killer for doing their objective.
    On the Killers’ side, No One Escapes Death does the same to Survivors as DS does to Killers, but it’s not as unhealthy as DS because it can be countered before taking effect.
  • PhantomMask20763PhantomMask20763 Member Posts: 5,183
    edited January 2019

    [Deleted]

  • JudgementJudgement Member Posts: 797
    edited January 2019

    What does that perk even do?

    I edited my post because I didn’t want to discuss that perk, can you delete your quote please?
  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 2,161

    People who use DS and NOED tend to be weak without the perk, so those would probably be exampled of unhealthy game design. Otherwise Whispers/Spine Chill/Prem can affect how you play and sometimes in a negative way (too cautious, too reliant on a perk).

  • vampire_toothyvampire_toothy Member Posts: 381

    Well, I guess the post already goes over this but I will not be putting any perks in here because they are overpowered but simply why I think they are bad design. here we go.

    For Survivors ;
    Adrenaline - As of the current state of the game, adrenaline simply does way too much plain and simple. Its existence alone can render particular builds as worthless as it can immediately heal you and grant you a 5 second speed boost, if a killer is in the middle of a chase then they can be greeted with a nasty surprise especially if more than 2 survivors are running this perk.
    Decisive Strike - This perk rewards survivors for playing poorly while punishing the player for doing well in a match, it's the definition of a get out of jail free card and unlike the perk above, it should be totally removed as no perk should ever grant you a free benefit for failing.
    We're Gonna Live Forever - Encourages people to farm their teammates. I love extra bloodpoints, but this perk is a one way road to being totally hated by your entire team and can throw off the game simply by the behavior it's most beneficial to.
    Hope - This isn't really strong but for a long period of time this perk can allow you to move considerably faster than the typical survivor (I believe +5/6/7%?) and because of this increased movement speed, certain killers such Myers will totally struggle to catch up if they're running scratched mirror, vanity mirror or judith's tombstone. Other killers such as Spirit, Huntress, Hag and Legion will only end up being 3% faster though luckily in most cases they have a power that can help them on most maps except for Huntress if she's on the wrong map in this scenario.
    Urban Evasion - Not exactly my definition of strong, just my definition of purely annoying as the most annoying thing to experience in this game for me is the inability to find people where devs have been pushing for a game that revolves more around the killer chasing rather than seeking at this point. A perk like urban evasion allows you to sneak away without effort and remain hidden causing the greatest annoyance to some killers especially if paired with a map like rotten fields.

    For Killers ;
    Rancor - For the entire endgame the obsession can do absolutely nothing without being instadowned and getting a free mori. It isn't really a strong perk but admittedly it's rather annoying where even if you don't run an obsession perk you're denied any ability to properly contribute to the end-game and are forced to either hide or leave early instead of being able to save teammates.
    Ruin - This perk plays the game for you in an unhealthy way. Learning to properly apply pressure to the map is something you should learn and experiment with in various different ways especially when there are other perks and mechanics that can do its job much better but with just a little more effort. In addition to this, the perk becomes meaningless as only newer players will struggle as veteran players will hit skillchecks at ease and will find the totem due to bad spawns (which to the credit of BHVR, they are working on that). While I'm aware that there are other perks that play the game for you to an extent, they at least accomplish a healthier playstyle and rewards all players that use them alike.
    Fire Up - Simply put, it can do what multiple other perks can do but in a lesser state. The values are horrible yet I cannot see a viable way to buff it without totally breaking it when paired with other perks. I'm more in favor of keeping the concept of the perk in mind but reworking it and even buffing other perks in compensation. At no point should a perk be just a "lesser" version of another.
    Dying Light/Remember Me - Both of these perks have the same problem. They don't make being the obsession a risk, they just make being the obsession unfun as there is simply no reason not to totally tunnel them to the ground with these perks The obsession isn't penalized with a new risk, your team is penalized with holding M1 down for even longer.
    Legio - Wait, that's not a perk

    Overall, that's just my opinion if I had to take a look at a first selection of perks I think are unhealthy. Not because they are strong or unbalanced even if some of them actually are but because it just creates an unfun experience for people at the end of the day.

  • PhantomMask20763PhantomMask20763 Member Posts: 5,183

    @Judgement said:
    PhantomMask20763 said:

    What does that perk even do?

    I edited my post because I didn’t want to discuss that perk, can you delete your quote please?

    K...

  • JammyJewelsJammyJewels Member Posts: 610
    Judgement said:

    What does that perk even do?

    I edited my post because I didn’t want to discuss that perk, can you delete your quote please?
    Why though? Some of us don’t go looking for obscure perks and simply are interested because, for some like me, wouldn’t be able to access those files anyway due to the fact that we’re console players.
  • micsanmicsan Member Posts: 95
    edited January 2019

    @Might_Oakk said:
    Ruin: Heavily punishes new players with little effect on veteran players.

    I never really understood how people can say this...

    It has just as much of an effect on veteran players as new players because a veteran player hitting 4 great skill checks will progress a non-ruin gen 20%+the amount of seconds he repairs.

    You get 5% progression added when hitting great skill checks, but with ruin it does not. The only difference being the shock thing that stops progression all together for a second or two. It affects new players more, but I'd argue that it also has a huge effect on veteran players that would get their gens done 20-30% quicker if they got 4-6 skills checks on the gen.

    That being said, I really don't think it's too bad. It forces players to go do totems and potentially getting the location of dull totems just in case of NOED. I find that if a killer runs Ruin and NOED, the NOED get's take down rather quickly, because people have been looking for totems previously.

  • JudgementJudgement Member Posts: 797
    Judgement said:

    What does that perk even do?

    I edited my post because I didn’t want to discuss that perk, can you delete your quote please?
    Why though? Some of us don’t go looking for obscure perks and simply are interested because, for some like me, wouldn’t be able to access those files anyway due to the fact that we’re console players.
    Because it’s a perk that warrants immediate, permanent IP bans when you hack it in to use it, and I’m not sure whether discussing the perk will get me banned or barred, so I’d rather not gamble.
    That being said, the perk is literally on the wiki under ‘unused perks’, or you can just find it in the Perks page under that category.
  • Might_OakkMight_Oakk Member Posts: 1,228

    @micsan said:

    @Might_Oakk said:
    Ruin: Heavily punishes new players with little effect on veteran players.

    I never really understood how people can say this...

    It has just as much of an effect on veteran players as new players because a veteran player hitting 4 great skill checks will progress a non-ruin gen 20%+the amount of seconds he repairs.

    You get 5% progression added when hitting great skill checks, but with ruin it does not. The only difference being the shock thing that stops progression all together for a second or two. It affects new players more, but I'd argue that it also has a huge effect on veteran players that would get their gens done 20-30% quicker if they got 4-6 skills checks on the gen.

    That being said, I really don't think it's too bad. It forces players to go do totems and potentially getting the location of dull totems just in case of NOED. I find that if a killer runs Ruin and NOED, the NOED get's take down rather quickly, because people have been looking for totems previously.

    Great skill checks give 2% progress not 5%. Also veteran players know every totem spawn so can destroy the totem very quickly if nearby.

  • micsanmicsan Member Posts: 95

    @Might_Oakk said:

    @micsan said:

    @Might_Oakk said:
    Ruin: Heavily punishes new players with little effect on veteran players.

    I never really understood how people can say this...

    It has just as much of an effect on veteran players as new players because a veteran player hitting 4 great skill checks will progress a non-ruin gen 20%+the amount of seconds he repairs.

    You get 5% progression added when hitting great skill checks, but with ruin it does not. The only difference being the shock thing that stops progression all together for a second or two. It affects new players more, but I'd argue that it also has a huge effect on veteran players that would get their gens done 20-30% quicker if they got 4-6 skills checks on the gen.

    That being said, I really don't think it's too bad. It forces players to go do totems and potentially getting the location of dull totems just in case of NOED. I find that if a killer runs Ruin and NOED, the NOED get's take down rather quickly, because people have been looking for totems previously.

    Great skill checks give 2% progress not 5%. Also veteran players know every totem spawn so can destroy the totem very quickly if nearby.

    Oh, it's only 2%? I mean it still noticeable if you get 4-5(8-10% faster) skill checks, usually only get 2-3(4-6%) maybe 4(8%) though, unless you are lucky\unlucky I guess.

    But not nearly as bad then, no. But considering things like Resilience, gives you a 9% speed increase when you're injured, it's still something that you would notice.

    I'm not 100% sure if it translates like that though, does it?

    5 great skill checks = 10%
    Is this the exact same as if you had 10% speed increase and only hit good skill checks?

  • micsanmicsan Member Posts: 95

    @Might_Oakk said:

    @micsan said:

    @Might_Oakk said:
    Ruin: Heavily punishes new players with little effect on veteran players.

    I never really understood how people can say this...

    It has just as much of an effect on veteran players as new players because a veteran player hitting 4 great skill checks will progress a non-ruin gen 20%+the amount of seconds he repairs.

    You get 5% progression added when hitting great skill checks, but with ruin it does not. The only difference being the shock thing that stops progression all together for a second or two. It affects new players more, but I'd argue that it also has a huge effect on veteran players that would get their gens done 20-30% quicker if they got 4-6 skills checks on the gen.

    That being said, I really don't think it's too bad. It forces players to go do totems and potentially getting the location of dull totems just in case of NOED. I find that if a killer runs Ruin and NOED, the NOED get's take down rather quickly, because people have been looking for totems previously.

    Great skill checks give 2% progress not 5%. Also veteran players know every totem spawn so can destroy the totem very quickly if nearby.

    I don't know why, but my reply to you seems to have vanished. Sorry if I double post...

    If it's only 2% then it's not as noticeable, but it's still comparable with having Resilience effect on at all times.

    I usually get around 4-5 skill checks per gen, which is 8-10% faster.

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