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Is BHVR even listening?

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Comments

  • PiiFreePiiFree Member Posts: 1,120

    @Eninya said:
    Wow, you didn't play LoL at all, then. Seasons 2-4 were this mid-game in every match, and then the post-game chat, and then angry whispers. And since you could naturally get re-queued with these people easily in the next few games, you dealt with it again.

    There's been blogs dedicated to [BAD WORD] like this, and it's a major contributing factor to the creation of the tribunal system in LoL. How did you miss that?

    In that case, that's your experience from playing LoL. They implemented the tribunal system and now it's gotten a lot better, right? So how is that relevant anymore? LoL is nowhere near as toxic as DbD anymore and neither is CS or Dota 2. That's an observation I made.

    My only logical conclusion: You seem to be a Survivor main that never plays Killer? I have roughly 2000 hours, 100% achievements and more or less a 50/50 Killer / Survivor ratio. I received my 500+ insulting steam profile comments exclusively when playing Killer. I know a person with around 1800 profile comments. That's hundreds of players heading over to their profile just to insult them. Where else can this possibly happen? Name me one thing and I'll check it out myself.

    It's also the nature of DbD; play Killer and you'll receive hate. Play Survivor and you'll spread hate. As a result, players that mostly play Survivor will not see as much toxicity as Killers do, at least not as the receiving part.

    It's an endless discussion but my opinion stands:

    After 10 years of gaming and thousands of hours in multiplayer games, Dead By Daylight has the most toxic community I've ever seen. We're at a point where deathwishes should be considered "normal behaviour, get used to it".

  • The_CrusaderThe_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    edited February 6
    Have to agree here. DBD is the only game where I've had to make my steam profile private.

    In fact I went 7 years without having to block a single person, then I had loads - all of which were from DBD.

    Killers aren't innocent though. I need to constantly change my steam name just because so many of these idiots hold a grudge because you won after they camped so hard. So next time it's tunnel and mori and they try to get other survivors to work with them.
  • MilkymalkMilkymalk Member Posts: 147

    Really? I hardly remember ANY names from any games, neither ones I won with a 4k/3k+h nor ones where I got stomped. In fact, I couldn't tell you any names I have ever played against except for those who went to my friends list afterwards.

    BHVR is doing everything right, from their perspective. People rage, rant, tell stories of great and horrible matches. Every DBD player has emotions attached to the game, good and bad ones. It's not a game you play and forget about. We all hate certain aspects of the game, but we keep playing even if it infuriates us. Because, at its core, it's a damn good game that we care about.

    As a developer, it's better to have a game that is hated by every single player, than to have a game everybody is indifferent about. We hate the game because we love it and want it to be the best it can be. It's just that we have different opinions about what is "best".

  • The_CrusaderThe_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688

    They listen, they just don't always do what people want. Perfect example...

    Community - DS needs a nerf

    Devs - Lets space the hooks further apart.

  • PiiFreePiiFree Member Posts: 1,120
    edited February 6

    (in addition to the "toxicity of DbD"...)

    There's also a weird mentality going on in DbD, it's very different to other games I've played. People expect the opposite side to care about their fun and their experience - even if it might cost them the win.

    Coming from very competitive games, I thought it was quite obvious that people try to demolish the other team as hard as possible. It's normal, both teams want to win and they'll do anything to achieve that. However, if you do that in DbD, you're going to get a lot of hate.

    I'm still wondering why that is? I can't really understand it... Is it the mixture of "casuals that just want to have fun" and "tryhards that just want to win"? I never expect my opponents to have mercy with me, why should I? It makes no sense.

    I think that's a big part of the problem, because it's the reason why people get so frustrated over a single match. This part could very easily be solved by creating seperate modes for those; Casual and Ranked.

  • BongbingbingBongbingbing Member Posts: 1,423

    They of course Listen but I do think they're disconnected from what the community actually wants.

  • TheBeanTheBean Member Posts: 2,144
    edited February 6

    @PiiFree said:
    My only logical conclusion: You seem to be a Survivor main that never plays Killer? I have roughly 2000 hours, 100% achievements and more or less a 50/50 Killer / Survivor ratio. I received my 500+ insulting steam profile comments exclusively when playing Killer. I know a person with around 1800 profile comments. That's hundreds of players heading over to their profile just to insult them. Where else can this possibly happen? Name me one thing and I'll check it out myself.

    The DBD muscle flex to prove your arguments has no merits.... LOVE IT! People wonder why they get toxicity directed at them.... I'll DBD hour flex you out of the argument survivor MAIN!... LULS

    So I goto... Counter-Strike: Global Offensive store page... I scroll down... I select View Discussions to get into the Steam Forums... Then I just look over a few posts... look at a few profiles... and bam... people have comments on their profile... negative ones... related to playing CS:GO.... Interesting.

    If you want to leave your comment section open to the public that is your choice... OH NO BUT I SHOULD HAVE TO DO THAT!.. WHY DO I HAVE TO MAKE MY COMMENTS FRIENDS ONLY OR PRIVATE???.. PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE TOXIC!!

    So do you leave all your social media account without setting up any privacy settings?.... Leave it wide open?... I mean people or companies shouldn't use your information in any malicious way right?

    @PiiFree said:
    After 10 years of gaming and thousands of hours in multiplayer games, Dead By Daylight has the most toxic community I've ever seen. We're at a point where deathwishes should be considered "normal behaviour, get used to it".

    I admit it can be pretty toxic at times... but... Don't always leave yourself open to it then cry foul afterwards.

  • PiiFreePiiFree Member Posts: 1,120
    edited February 6

    @TheBean said:
    I admit it can be pretty toxic at times... but... Don't always leave yourself open to it then cry foul afterwards.

    I think you misunderstood, I'm not crying about it, I'm just stating how my personal experience is in that regard.
    Something I wish you'd have realized by now, but apparently still didn't. My profile is a representation of toxicity.

    How vulnerable/open I leave myself/my profile has absolutely nothing to do with the toxic behaviour of other players, it simply allows them to actually BE toxic. People are still toxic, you're just less likely to experience it when you set everything on private. That just changes YOUR PERSONAL experience regarding toxicity.

    Of course people with private profiles will claim "the game is not that toxic" because guess what? How could they experience toxicity when they prevent people from being toxic?. It's like saying "The Death Valley is not that hot" while driving through it with your air con on.

    YOU protect yourself from the "issue" but that doesn't mean it's non-existent.

    PS; I just checked the first 10 steam profiles from the csgo forum I came across and not a single one had a negative profile comment, lol:

    https://steamcommunity.com/app/730/discussions/0/1777136225021717441/

  • The_CrusaderThe_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    PiiFree said:

    (in addition to the "toxicity of DbD"...)

    There's also a weird mentality going on in DbD, it's very different to other games I've played. People expect the opposite side to care about their fun and their experience - even if it might cost them the win.

    Coming from very competitive games, I thought it was quite obvious that people try to demolish the other team as hard as possible. It's normal, both teams want to win and they'll do anything to achieve that. However, if you do that in DbD, you're going to get a lot of hate.

    I'm still wondering why that is? I can't really understand it... Is it the mixture of "casuals that just want to have fun" and "tryhards that just want to win"? I never expect my opponents to have mercy with me, why should I? It makes no sense.

    I think that's a big part of the problem, because it's the reason why people get so frustrated over a single match. This part could very easily be solved by creating seperate modes for those; Casual and Ranked.

    Because of the nature of the game.

    Something like call of duty is simple and fun. Both sides have guns, both run around trying to shoot each other.

    In DBD each sides have different roles, however due to the game design certain playstyles can be unfun for the other side.

    As survivor going on the hook and then having the killer stand in front of you so you cant get escape isn't very fun.

    Likewise as killer having survivors run in circles around structures where you cant hit them isnt very fun either.

    There arent many games like that where the design causes the gameplay to be unfun.
  • TheBeanTheBean Member Posts: 2,144

    @PiiFree said:
    How vulnerable/open I leave myself/my profile has absolutely nothing to do with the toxic behaviour of other players, it simply allows them to actually BE toxic. People are still toxic, you're just less likely to experience it when you set everything on private. That just changes YOUR PERSONAL experience regarding toxicity.

    Of course people with private profiles will claim "the game is not that toxic" because guess what? How could they experience toxicity when they prevent people from being toxic?. It's like saying "The Death Valley is not that hot" while driving through it with your air con on.

    YOU protect yourself from the "issue" but that doesn't mean it's non-existent.

    Sort of... I protect myself from it... I, in essence, don't give it an audience. I don't allow it to happen, to me. If someone can't be toxic to me on my profile, etc... I've stopped it from happening to me.

    I don't stop that person from being toxic, no. However, I do stop allowing it to happen, to me.

    So yes. I feel the game is less toxic, because I do protect myself from it. I try to leave it in game and in the post chat. If people want to be toxic, they can do it in there and if they go over board I can report it. That way there is some avenue for those toxic players to release their anger, which I don't really care about. This is me though, if some are bothered by it, then they need to disable end game chat.

    By not giving it an audience I stop the toxicity from happening. If more people did that, then there wouldn't be anywhere for those players to be toxic. When they have less avenues to be toxic, then perhaps they won't be?...Maybe? Who knows... I know I'm not getting it, so I don't have to deal with it.

    It allows me not to get upset about it, because it doesn't happen, because I stopped it from happening to me. I have been given and use the tools available to me to stop it.

    We can't trust social media companies with our personal information because they will sell it to the highest bidder. You also can't trust users of those social media companies since they have to implement privacy settings in it to prevent malicious use. Therefore, blocking comments on my profile on Steam from the public, is no different then me setting up my privacy setting on say Facebook.

    We have to protect ourselves from it, especially if a person finds it upsetting. We can't sit and expect people to do the right thing all the times, because they don't. That is life.

  • PiiFreePiiFree Member Posts: 1,120

    @The_Crusader said:
    Because of the nature of the game.

    Something like call of duty is simple and fun. Both sides have guns, both run around trying to shoot each other.

    In DBD each sides have different roles, however due to the game design certain playstyles can be unfun for the other side.

    As survivor going on the hook and then having the killer stand in front of you so you cant get escape isn't very fun.

    Likewise as killer having survivors run in circles around structures where you cant hit them isnt very fun either.

    There arent many games like that where the design causes the gameplay to be unfun.

    But Dota and LoL can also be abusive. If your opponent realizes that you're bad, they will start to feed on you, merciless. It's normal, they want to win so they take advantage of your lack of skill. You're not going to blame the enemies "Stop farming me!" you're going to ask your teammates if they can help you.

    CS:GO is full of campers but you're not going to call them out as "[BAD WORD] campers", instead you adapt and learn how to deal with them to prevent yourself from getting killed by them over and over again. You're going to playing more carefully.

    In Battle Royales you're always expeting people to play in the scummiest way possible to ensure their #1. If they lack the aim skill to beat you, they're going to camp and if it works, they simply won by using a smart tactic. They avoided aim combat because they knew they'll lose it, so they forced me to get out of my comfort zone and this is how they won.

    In SC2 / AoE / any other strategy game, people use "cheap" rush tactics to beat you but if it works, that was a smart move. I'm not going to flame them for using that tactic, as it allowed them to win.

    I can't think of a game where people expect the opposite side to put their own victory at risk simply to provide a funny experience for the opposite side. Name me one.

  • The_CrusaderThe_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    edited February 6

    @PiiFree said:

    @The_Crusader said:
    Because of the nature of the game.

    Something like call of duty is simple and fun. Both sides have guns, both run around trying to shoot each other.

    In DBD each sides have different roles, however due to the game design certain playstyles can be unfun for the other side.

    As survivor going on the hook and then having the killer stand in front of you so you cant get escape isn't very fun.

    Likewise as killer having survivors run in circles around structures where you cant hit them isnt very fun either.

    There arent many games like that where the design causes the gameplay to be unfun.

    But Dota and LoL can also be abusive. If your opponent realizes that you're bad, they will start to feed on you, merciless. It's normal, they want to win so they take advantage of your lack of skill. You're not going to blame the enemies "Stop farming me!" you're going to ask your teammates if they can help you.

    CS:GO is full of campers but you're not going to call them out as "[BAD WORD] campers", instead you adapt and learn how to deal with them to prevent yourself from getting killed by them over and over again. You're going to playing more carefully.

    In Battle Royales you're always expeting people to play in the scummiest way possible to ensure their #1. If they lack the aim skill to beat you, they're going to camp and if it works, they simply won by using a smart tactic. They avoided aim combat because they knew they'll lose it, so they forced me to get out of my comfort zone and this is how they won.

    In SC2 / AoE / any other strategy game, people use "cheap" rush tactics to beat you but if it works, that was a smart move. I'm not going to flame them for using that tactic, as it allowed them to win.

    I can't think of a game where people expect the opposite side to put their own victory at risk simply to provide a funny experience for the opposite side. Name me one.

    camping in a battle royale is different to camping in DBD.

    In PUBG holding a building is a defensive position. The opposing team has guns and has an equal chance of taking them out.

    As a survivor on the hook you can't do anything.

    it's the mechanics of dbd. its hard to explain but a lot of it feels unfair. I wouldn't compare it to games like starcraft anyway, I mean DBD is fun but it's not on that level nor is it that polished.

  • OrionOrion Member Posts: 11,721

    @The_Crusader said:

    @PiiFree said:

    @The_Crusader said:
    Because of the nature of the game.

    Something like call of duty is simple and fun. Both sides have guns, both run around trying to shoot each other.

    In DBD each sides have different roles, however due to the game design certain playstyles can be unfun for the other side.

    As survivor going on the hook and then having the killer stand in front of you so you cant get escape isn't very fun.

    Likewise as killer having survivors run in circles around structures where you cant hit them isnt very fun either.

    There arent many games like that where the design causes the gameplay to be unfun.

    But Dota and LoL can also be abusive. If your opponent realizes that you're bad, they will start to feed on you, merciless. It's normal, they want to win so they take advantage of your lack of skill. You're not going to blame the enemies "Stop farming me!" you're going to ask your teammates if they can help you.

    CS:GO is full of campers but you're not going to call them out as "[BAD WORD] campers", instead you adapt and learn how to deal with them to prevent yourself from getting killed by them over and over again. You're going to playing more carefully.

    In Battle Royales you're always expeting people to play in the scummiest way possible to ensure their #1. If they lack the aim skill to beat you, they're going to camp and if it works, they simply won by using a smart tactic. They avoided aim combat because they knew they'll lose it, so they forced me to get out of my comfort zone and this is how they won.

    In SC2 / AoE / any other strategy game, people use "cheap" rush tactics to beat you but if it works, that was a smart move. I'm not going to flame them for using that tactic, as it allowed them to win.

    I can't think of a game where people expect the opposite side to put their own victory at risk simply to provide a funny experience for the opposite side. Name me one.

    camping in a battle royale is different to camping in DBD.

    In PUBG holding a building is a defensive position. The opposing team has guns and has an equal chance of taking them out.

    As a survivor on the hook you can't do anything.

    A single survivor is not supposed to be able to do anything against the killer, since this is an asymmetrical game. The rest of them together, however, can do something.

  • The_CrusaderThe_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688

    @Orion said:

    @The_Crusader said:

    @PiiFree said:

    @The_Crusader said:
    Because of the nature of the game.

    Something like call of duty is simple and fun. Both sides have guns, both run around trying to shoot each other.

    In DBD each sides have different roles, however due to the game design certain playstyles can be unfun for the other side.

    As survivor going on the hook and then having the killer stand in front of you so you cant get escape isn't very fun.

    Likewise as killer having survivors run in circles around structures where you cant hit them isnt very fun either.

    There arent many games like that where the design causes the gameplay to be unfun.

    But Dota and LoL can also be abusive. If your opponent realizes that you're bad, they will start to feed on you, merciless. It's normal, they want to win so they take advantage of your lack of skill. You're not going to blame the enemies "Stop farming me!" you're going to ask your teammates if they can help you.

    CS:GO is full of campers but you're not going to call them out as "[BAD WORD] campers", instead you adapt and learn how to deal with them to prevent yourself from getting killed by them over and over again. You're going to playing more carefully.

    In Battle Royales you're always expeting people to play in the scummiest way possible to ensure their #1. If they lack the aim skill to beat you, they're going to camp and if it works, they simply won by using a smart tactic. They avoided aim combat because they knew they'll lose it, so they forced me to get out of my comfort zone and this is how they won.

    In SC2 / AoE / any other strategy game, people use "cheap" rush tactics to beat you but if it works, that was a smart move. I'm not going to flame them for using that tactic, as it allowed them to win.

    I can't think of a game where people expect the opposite side to put their own victory at risk simply to provide a funny experience for the opposite side. Name me one.

    camping in a battle royale is different to camping in DBD.

    In PUBG holding a building is a defensive position. The opposing team has guns and has an equal chance of taking them out.

    As a survivor on the hook you can't do anything.

    A single survivor is not supposed to be able to do anything against the killer, since this is an asymmetrical game. The rest of them together, however, can do something.

    Not really. They can use BT but that's about it.

    As a team they can rush gens. It works in swf because your friends win, but nobody really cares about solo, not when the devs push this "every man for himself" narrative. If the team doesn't matter and only you matter then what good is it if they make it out? what fun do you have on the hook?

    However if they pushed teamwork more and perhaps gave bonus BP/XP based on how many survivors made it out alive, then perhaps that would be better.

    DBD is meant to be asymetrical 4 vs 1 but the devs seem unsure if they want it to be that or if they want it to be 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 as this event has proven.

  • DexyIVDexyIV Member Posts: 444

    They should have just done it like they did with previous events that were actually decent. 5500 points per event gen and hook. Balance the coin gain appropriately so it doesn't break the game by making only one side gain more than the other.

  • PiiFreePiiFree Member Posts: 1,120
    edited February 6

    @The_Crusader said:
    camping in a battle royale is different to camping in DBD.

    In PUBG holding a building is a defensive position. The opposing team has guns and has an equal chance of taking them out.

    As a survivor on the hook you can't do anything.

    it's the mechanics of dbd. its hard to explain but a lot of it feels unfair. I wouldn't compare it to games like starcraft anyway, I mean DBD is fun but it's not on that level nor is it that polished.

    I get that it's different, but the general mindset remains.

    Why do people expect the opposite side to care? To have mercy? It's not just camping, it's also tunneling, looping, gen rushing, flashlight saving, DS, NOED, slugging,... ANYTHING that's not purely toxic (teabagging, flashlight triggering,...) exists to be used as a method to win.

    Especially since it's a 4v1 it should be expected that there is even LESS room for fairness / forgiveness than in an even 5v5. I don't get it.

    4 Players play against ONE player.

    4 Players expect that this one player actually cares about the fun of the 4 opponent players.

    What logic is that? If anything, the 4 players should be encouraged to make the match fun for the Killer in that case. The Killer is alone, no one to communicate or mess around with. Allow them to have some fun.

  • The_CrusaderThe_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688

    @PiiFree said:

    @The_Crusader said:
    camping in a battle royale is different to camping in DBD.

    In PUBG holding a building is a defensive position. The opposing team has guns and has an equal chance of taking them out.

    As a survivor on the hook you can't do anything.

    it's the mechanics of dbd. its hard to explain but a lot of it feels unfair. I wouldn't compare it to games like starcraft anyway, I mean DBD is fun but it's not on that level nor is it that polished.

    I get that it's different, but the general mindset remains.

    Why do people expect the opposite side to care? To have mercy? It's not just camping, it's also tunneling, looping, gen rushing, flashlight saving, DS, NOED, slugging,... ANYTHING that's not purely toxic (teabagging, flashlight triggering,...) exists to be used as a method to win.

    Especially since it's a 4v1 it should be expected that there is even LESS room for fairness / forgiveness than in an even 5v5. I don't get it.

    4 Players play against ONE player.

    4 Players expect that this one player actually cares about the fun of the 4 opponent players.

    What logic is that? If anything, the 4 players should be encouraged to make the match fun for the Killer in that case. The Killer is alone, no one to communicate or mess around with. Allow them to have some fun.

    I guess nobody should care but it's on the development team to find solutions so that everybody has a fun time.

    Personally I try a bit. If someone disconnects early then I'll let the last person have the hatch because it's not their fault if they got screwed.

    If someone brings DS though then I couldn't care less if I play dirty with a bit of camping or tunneling, they don't care about giving me a fair or fun game so I don't care about them. Same for tbaggers.

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