How to Fix the Camping / Tunneling Issue

DreamnomadDreamnomad Member Posts: 1,027

So this idea was inspired by another thread:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/44361/so-you-want-to-truly-solve-camping-slaying-dbds-oldest-monsters/p1

My solution is quite different though and deserves it's own thread. I am convinced that the issue of camping and tunneling can be addressed in a way that is fair to all players and healthy for the game. Here is what I've come up with.

Survivors have 3 "lives". When the killer catches and puts them on a hook the survivor loses 1 life and is put in a ghost world for 45 seconds after losing the first life and 30 seconds after losing the second life. While the survivor is in the ghost world they can not interact with any objects other than ones that can be vaulted. The world appears black and white and the survivor can not see or touch the other players. They can, however, explore the map to find the locations of generators, chests, and totems (though ghost players can not tell the difference between active and inactive totems). The survivor will also earn some bloodpoints for distance traveled in the ghost world.

After the timer is up the survivor will appear on a random hook at least 32 meters away from the killers current location. The survivor on the hook will see the shroud indication from Insidious around them. This indicates that the killer can not see them on the hook. In fact, the hook that the survivor is on will appear broken to the killer. Other survivors can see the aura of the hooked survivor and unhook them normally at which point they are back in the game. While a survivor is hooked there is no progress meter and there is no struggle phase. Survivors can attempt to free themselves from the hook, but the baseline success chance is 0% for the first attempt and increases by 1% for each attempt after. Attempts for the survivor to free themselves will take 1-2 seconds longer than the current system. If all the survivors are either dead, in ghost world time out, or hooked then the killer wins.

So how does this solve camping/tunneling? Simple. There is nothing to camp.

How does it solve tunneling? The survivor respawns at a random point away from the killer. The survivor should have an opportunity to heal before encountering the killer again.

What about basement hooks? This makes them pointless right? No. Survivors that lose a life on a basement hook are sent to the ghost world for an additional 30 seconds.

This is a huge boost to survivors right? That kind of depends on the way the killer normally plays. If the killer usually depends on camping/tunneling to win then they will need to adjust. For killers that don't typically camp or tunnel then this is actually an improvement. Survivors are guaranteed to be out of the way for anywhere from 30 seconds to 75 seconds plus the amount of time it takes another survivor to unhook and heal the survivor.

Why is the survivor in the ghost world longer after losing their first life than the second life? This is a counter snowball measure. Early game survivors are at a distinct advantage in terms of working towards objectives. Late game as they die off the advantage moves in the killers favor.

What about perks that interact with unhooking? Most will remain unchanged. Slippery Meat will increase the base chance to get off and make escape attempts faster.

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Comments

  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 8,681

    How long will the survivor be on the hook until they lose another life?

    What happens to all the mechanic designed for camping, take leatherface or insidious for example?

  • DexyIVDexyIV Member Posts: 371

    Cool idea. Would it be applicable to the way the game functions currently? I don't think so. Camping isn't a very big problem, but tunneling definitely is with the way games go nowadays. It wouldn't require a full overhaul of the hooking mechanic to fix it either; just a few changes here and there. Good idea regardless.

  • DreamnomadDreamnomad Member Posts: 1,027

    @Master said:
    How long will the survivor be on the hook until they lose another life?

    What happens to all the mechanic designed for camping, take leatherface or insidious for example?

    There is no time limit for losing another life. There is no struggle phase either. The player on the hook either has to wait until another survivor frees them or they manage to struggle free. The first attempt to struggle free has a base chance of 0% success and each attempt after increases the chance by 1%. Each attempt would take approximately 4 seconds. If no one rescues the survivor they would eventually get themselves free. There is a random factor here, but on average it would take around a minute to free themselves. Most of the time they would be rescued before that point.

    Leatherface could continue being Leatherface. He doesn't HAVE to camp to be relevant. There would be no change to insidious either. The killer can stand still and have no terror radius any time they want. Camp a gen, camp an exit gate, camp a chest, camp a high traffic point, whatever. Is it a smart strategy? No.

  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 8,681

    @Dreamnomad said:

    @Master said:
    How long will the survivor be on the hook until they lose another life?

    What happens to all the mechanic designed for camping, take leatherface or insidious for example?

    There is no time limit for losing another life. There is no struggle phase either. The player on the hook either has to wait until another survivor frees them or they manage to struggle free. The first attempt to struggle free has a base chance of 0% success and each attempt after increases the chance by 1%. Each attempt would take approximately 4 seconds. If no one rescues the survivor they would eventually get themselves free. There is a random factor here, but on average it would take around a minute to free themselves. Most of the time they would be rescued before that point.

    Leatherface could continue being Leatherface. He doesn't HAVE to camp to be relevant. There would be no change to insidious either. The killer can stand still and have no terror radius any time they want. Camp a gen, camp an exit gate, camp a chest, camp a high traffic point, whatever. Is it a smart strategy? No.

    Ahh, so survivors dont need to rescue each other at all? Yeah sorry to say that, btu that is really stupid.
    The only way to apply some pressure is by hookinh survivors and forcing another one to unhook him.
    There would need to be tremdenous killer buffs to compensate for that.

    Also leatherface is a killer desigend for camping. Thats the onyl thing he is good for, same for insidious.

    Thats like saying the devs remove all pallets, but brutal strengh is still relevant since it also shortens generator breaking......

  • DemonDaddyDemonDaddy Member Posts: 708
    Yeah that idea sounds like a completely diferrent mode of play, one that only pressures the killer more with time management. Also think survivors should stick with the current 1 life, only granting additional chances with smart play. Getting found is as much a factor in this as having teammates deterred from a save.
  • SlayerSlayer Member Posts: 281
    Maybe you can make a new game with ideas like that lol Sorry but that doesnt fit this game at all camping and tunneling meant to be part of a game for balance 
  • DreamnomadDreamnomad Member Posts: 1,027

    @DemonDaddy said:
    Yeah that idea sounds like a completely diferrent mode of play, one that only pressures the killer more with time management. Also think survivors should stick with the current 1 life, only granting additional chances with smart play. Getting found is as much a factor in this as having teammates deterred from a save.

    It would probably be smart to introduce it as an alternate game mode. Give players time to adjust to the idea and work out any balance issues. It would be a massive change. No doubt about it.

  • AlexAnarchyAlexAnarchy Member Posts: 450

    Camping and tunneling are not against the rules, thus not an issue that needs fixing, get over it.

  • MalicoreMalicore Member Posts: 2

    Camping and tunnelling are for scrub killers and desperate ones i main the nurse a hard killer and can still get 4k without those weak strategys and honestly Camping only helps them get more work done anyway it's foolish

  • SlayerSlayer Member Posts: 281

    @Malicore said:
    Camping and tunnelling are for scrub killers and desperate ones i main the nurse a hard killer and can still get 4k without those weak strategys and honestly Camping only helps them get more work done anyway it's foolish

    Being unable to break a chase to prevent tunneling says much about survivors skill

  • DreamnomadDreamnomad Member Posts: 1,027

    @AlexAnarchy said:
    Camping and tunneling are not against the rules, thus not an issue that needs fixing, get over it.

    You're funny. According to the million or so posts crying about camping and tunneling on the forums it is an issue. Yes. I fully realize that camping and tunneling isn't "against the rules". I've done my share of both. And probably a few other people's share as well. But I try not to be "that guy" anymore. The majority of my games are as a killer, but I've played enough as a survivor to recognize how obnoxious the playstyle is.

    It just isn't fun for survivors. Since 80% of the players in a given game are survivors if they aren't having fun then the long term health of the game is in jeopardy. Since camping is the #1 issue survivors have and tunneling is the #2 issue survivors have then addressing those issues is a good idea. And it isn't like I haven't considered the position of killers. The time survivors spend in the ghost world in addition to the time it takes to get off the hook and healed back up gives the killer time to actually chase and hunt. There are also a lot of different aspects to the system that can be tweaked if it proves to be too much in one sides favor.

  • DreamnomadDreamnomad Member Posts: 1,027

    @Malicore said:
    Camping and tunnelling are for scrub killers and desperate ones i main the nurse a hard killer and can still get 4k without those weak strategys and honestly Camping only helps them get more work done anyway it's foolish

    Your first post is in my thread. I'm honored. Welcome to the forums. What do you think of my idea though? Are you for or against it? If you aren't camping anyway then this would only help you I would think.

  • MalicoreMalicore Member Posts: 2

    @Malicore said:
    Camping and tunnelling are for scrub killers and desperate ones i main the nurse a hard killer and can still get 4k without those weak strategys and honestly Camping only helps them get more work done anyway it's foolish

    Your first post is in my thread. I'm honored. Welcome to the forums. What do you think of my idea though? Are you for or against it? If you aren't camping anyway then this would only help you I would think.

    I'm for your idea I wouldn't mind the change 
  • AlexAnarchyAlexAnarchy Member Posts: 450

    @Dreamnomad said:

    @AlexAnarchy said:
    Camping and tunneling are not against the rules, thus not an issue that needs fixing, get over it.

    You're funny. According to the million or so posts crying about camping and tunneling on the forums it is an issue. Yes. I fully realize that camping and tunneling isn't "against the rules". I've done my share of both. And probably a few other people's share as well. But I try not to be "that guy" anymore. The majority of my games are as a killer, but I've played enough as a survivor to recognize how obnoxious the playstyle is.

    It just isn't fun for survivors. Since 80% of the players in a given game are survivors if they aren't having fun then the long term health of the game is in jeopardy. Since camping is the #1 issue survivors have and tunneling is the #2 issue survivors have then addressing those issues is a good idea. And it isn't like I haven't considered the position of killers. The time survivors spend in the ghost world in addition to the time it takes to get off the hook and healed back up gives the killer time to actually chase and hunt. There are also a lot of different aspects to the system that can be tweaked if it proves to be too much in one sides favor.

    Not against the rules, ofc survivors hate it cuz it makes them die and lose, Old News, survivors hate getting killed period.

  • DreamnomadDreamnomad Member Posts: 1,027
    edited February 4

    @AlexAnarchy said:
    Not against the rules, ofc survivors hate it cuz it makes them die and lose, Old News, survivors hate getting killed period.

    Out of curiosity, did you even read my post or are you basing all your replies off the subject line alone? Because if you did then you would realize that I'm not saying that the killer should always lose and the survivors always win. I'm trying to recommend something this is fair to everyone. So if you think my idea is unfair, what specifically about it would be unfair?

  • OwerOwer Member Posts: 2
    edited February 5

    There's nothing to fix. Camping and Tunneling are already punished by allowing your teammates to freely do objectives and\or escape. killers are also further punished by poor points\bp and likely De-pip meaning you'll never rank up playing this way.

    The survivor should have an opportunity to heal before encountering the killer again.

    This is just ridiculous. That like saying after getting hit once the killer should not chase the survivor anymore and he should be allowed to heal up or once a gen is completed another one can't be completed for 30 secs after. This post is 100% a survivor only player trying to make the game EZMOAD for survivors. You're not entitled to be unhooked, healed up and get another chance escape.

    If your teammates are buzzing around the hook the moment you get hooked of course i'm not going to leave the area.. I know they're there and not doing gens. if I go 10 feet and they unhook you, of course i'm going to try to find you first. You're the weak link. Instead of getting mad at the killer for "not letting you heal up" why don't you yell at your teammates for making bonehead plays like that. Very few people actually camp or tunnel especially as you climb ranks because you don't find those players for the reasons I listed above. the only time I see it happen in nearly 1k hours played is majority when Survivors are toxic and Teabag at every pallet or window and honestly those players deserve it.

  • RaptorrotasRaptorrotas Member Posts: 353
    Sorry but that idea would only make "focused generator repairs" more prevalent as the hooked survivor would eventually free himself eventually.

    Removing survivors (only) timed pressure is probably bad.
  • Damon22441Damon22441 Member Posts: 20

    @Slayer said:
    Maybe you can make a new game with ideas like that lol Sorry but that doesnt fit this game at all camping and tunneling meant to be part of a game for balance 

    Then you think the game is meant to be unfair and unfun. Why play a match when there's a real chance you get tunneled down or camped, effectively wasting your time and power bill? Why play a game that encourages this?

    Camping and Tunneling are emergent gameplay mechanics that the developers don't know how to address without overhauling many things at once.

  • OrionOrion Member Posts: 6,635

    @Damon22441 said:

    @Slayer said:
    Maybe you can make a new game with ideas like that lol Sorry but that doesnt fit this game at all camping and tunneling meant to be part of a game for balance 

    Then you think the game is meant to be unfair and unfun. Why play a match when there's a real chance you get tunneled down or camped, effectively wasting your time and power bill? Why play a game that encourages this?

    Camping and Tunneling are emergent gameplay mechanics that the developers don't know how to address without overhauling many things at once.

    Why play a game when there's a real chance you might lose because you're not good enough? Because it's part of the challenge.

  • DreadnightDreadnight Member Posts: 5
    • To fix camping, I would put an 8m aura around the hook that paused the progress of the entity while the killer is inside.
    • Tunneling i think is not a real problem if the survivor have a chance to escape. I would have "Hope" perk works also for 1 min when you release a hook.
  • OrionOrion Member Posts: 6,635

    @Dreadnight said:

    • To fix camping, I would put an 8m aura around the hook that paused the progress of the entity while the killer is inside.
    • Tunneling i think is not a real problem if the survivor have a chance to escape. I would have "Hope" perk works also for 1 min when you release a hook.
    1. Already tried and abused by survivors.
    2. You don't deserve a reward for failure.
  • DreadnightDreadnight Member Posts: 5

    @Orion said:
    1. Already tried and abused by survivors.
    2. You don't deserve a reward for failure.

    1. I did not know it. I'm new to the forum and I've been playing for a few months.
    2. I do not see it as a reward, but rather a buff to a perk.
  • kmoneyykmoneyy Member Posts: 15
    If u camp I consider u trash
  • kmoneyykmoneyy Member Posts: 15
    Ower said:

    There's nothing to fix. Camping and Tunneling are already punished by allowing your teammates to freely do objectives and\or escape. killers are also further punished by poor points\bp and likely De-pip meaning you'll never rank up playing this way.

    The survivor should have an opportunity to heal before encountering the killer again.

    This is just ridiculous. That like saying after getting hit once the killer should not chase the survivor anymore and he should be allowed to heal up or once a gen is completed another one can't be completed for 30 secs after. This post is 100% a survivor only player trying to make the game EZMOAD for survivors. You're not entitled to be unhooked, healed up and get another chance escape.

    If your teammates are buzzing around the hook the moment you get hooked of course i'm not going to leave the area.. I know they're there and not doing gens. if I go 10 feet and they unhook you, of course i'm going to try to find you first. You're the weak link. Instead of getting mad at the killer for "not letting you heal up" why don't you yell at your teammates for making bonehead plays like that. Very few people actually camp or tunnel especially as you climb ranks because you don't find those players for the reasons I listed above. the only time I see it happen in nearly 1k hours played is majority when Survivors are toxic and Teabag at every pallet or window and honestly those players deserve it.

    Nah the killers are over powered in general.. y’all take the game way too serious and expect to get kills easily the perks the killers got against the survivors are far outta te survivors league tbh.. everything about the killers is overpowered why get saved when the chase lasts 2-3 secs?? They’re speeds are crazy asl compared to when we run it doesn’t make a difference.. y’all literally blame the game like if the survivors made it expecting killers to get rewarded. Games broken either way 😂
  • DreamnomadDreamnomad Member Posts: 1,027

    @Ower said:

    1st of all, welcome to the forums. Now let's address some of your responses.

    There's nothing to fix. Camping and Tunneling are already punished by allowing your teammates to freely do objectives and\or escape. killers are also further punished by poor points\bp and likely De-pip meaning you'll never rank up playing this way.

    This is one of those fallacies that killer mains like to propagate. Killers camp for a reason. It works. If camping and tunneling was naturally punished by survivors pushing objectives unchallenged then killers wouldn't do it. And yet, killers continue to camp and tunnel. That says something doesn't it?

    This post is 100% a survivor only player trying to make the game EZMOAD for survivors. You're not entitled to be unhooked, healed up and get another chance escape.

    This is a comical assumption on your part. The vast majority of my game time is played as a killer. But unlike many players, I am able to look at the bigger picture.

  • OrionOrion Member Posts: 6,635

    @Dreamnomad said:
    This is one of those fallacies that killer mains like to propagate. Killers camp for a reason. It works. If camping and tunneling was naturally punished by survivors pushing objectives unchallenged then killers wouldn't do it. And yet, killers continue to camp and tunnel. That says something doesn't it?

    Yes. It says that survivors aren't pushing objectives unchallenged. Instead, they try to force unhooks.

  • DreamnomadDreamnomad Member Posts: 1,027

    @Orion said:

    @Dreamnomad said:
    This is one of those fallacies that killer mains like to propagate. Killers camp for a reason. It works. If camping and tunneling was naturally punished by survivors pushing objectives unchallenged then killers wouldn't do it. And yet, killers continue to camp and tunnel. That says something doesn't it?

    Yes. It says that survivors aren't pushing objectives unchallenged. Instead, they try to force unhooks.

    Unless we are talking about SWF then the survivors that were working on generators need to get off the generator and run half way across the map to verify whether the killer is camping or not. The survivor will need to spend a few seconds assessing whether they can safely get the unhook or not. Then the survivor will need to run halfway across the map again to get back on their generator.

    All that time spent on a failed rescue attempt isn't punishing the killer at all. Giving up one or two generators for a secured kill is well worth it to the killer anyway just because of how snowbally this game is. All of this is assuming the survivors are willing to give up on each other for the larger strategic objectives. This is also depending on the hooked survivor not just suiciding on hook because they aren't having fun.

    So again, I assert that killers camp for a reason. Because it works. The fairy tale that survivors can effectively punish a camping killer by pushing objectives is just that. A fairy tale. Even if the survivors are on board with that strategy, best case scenario the killer still kills two survivors and everyone gets horrible bloodpoints for the game.

  • OrionOrion Member Posts: 6,635

    @Dreamnomad said:

    @Orion said:

    @Dreamnomad said:
    This is one of those fallacies that killer mains like to propagate. Killers camp for a reason. It works. If camping and tunneling was naturally punished by survivors pushing objectives unchallenged then killers wouldn't do it. And yet, killers continue to camp and tunnel. That says something doesn't it?

    Yes. It says that survivors aren't pushing objectives unchallenged. Instead, they try to force unhooks.

    Unless we are talking about SWF then the survivors that were working on generators need to get off the generator and run half way across the map to verify whether the killer is camping or not. The survivor will need to spend a few seconds assessing whether they can safely get the unhook or not. Then the survivor will need to run halfway across the map again to get back on their generator.

    All that time spent on a failed rescue attempt isn't punishing the killer at all. Giving up one or two generators for a secured kill is well worth it to the killer anyway just because of how snowbally this game is. All of this is assuming the survivors are willing to give up on each other for the larger strategic objectives. This is also depending on the hooked survivor not just suiciding on hook because they aren't having fun.

    So again, I assert that killers camp for a reason. Because it works. The fairy tale that survivors can effectively punish a camping killer by pushing objectives is just that. A fairy tale. Even if the survivors are on board with that strategy, best case scenario the killer still kills two survivors and everyone gets horrible bloodpoints for the game.

    Camping takes two minutes to kill someone, not including the time spent on the chase, which can take up to 3 generators. If two more generators pop at that point, the killer gets one kill (if that, since there's always BT). If more than one survivor dies to camping, it's because they fed the camper. It's that simple.

    Survivors suiciding on the hook is not relevant because it's still feeding.

    Survivors are the ones who make camping worthwhile. They've always done so, hence the epidemic. Killers should not be punished for the survivors' bad decisions.

    Lastly, if the killer gets two kills, then by the devs' definition, it's a balanced strategy.

  • DreamnomadDreamnomad Member Posts: 1,027

    @Orion said:

    @Dreamnomad said:

    @Orion said:

    @Dreamnomad said:
    This is one of those fallacies that killer mains like to propagate. Killers camp for a reason. It works. If camping and tunneling was naturally punished by survivors pushing objectives unchallenged then killers wouldn't do it. And yet, killers continue to camp and tunnel. That says something doesn't it?

    Yes. It says that survivors aren't pushing objectives unchallenged. Instead, they try to force unhooks.

    Unless we are talking about SWF then the survivors that were working on generators need to get off the generator and run half way across the map to verify whether the killer is camping or not. The survivor will need to spend a few seconds assessing whether they can safely get the unhook or not. Then the survivor will need to run halfway across the map again to get back on their generator.

    All that time spent on a failed rescue attempt isn't punishing the killer at all. Giving up one or two generators for a secured kill is well worth it to the killer anyway just because of how snowbally this game is. All of this is assuming the survivors are willing to give up on each other for the larger strategic objectives. This is also depending on the hooked survivor not just suiciding on hook because they aren't having fun.

    So again, I assert that killers camp for a reason. Because it works. The fairy tale that survivors can effectively punish a camping killer by pushing objectives is just that. A fairy tale. Even if the survivors are on board with that strategy, best case scenario the killer still kills two survivors and everyone gets horrible bloodpoints for the game.

    Camping takes two minutes to kill someone, not including the time spent on the chase, which can take up to 3 generators. If two more generators pop at that point, the killer gets one kill (if that, since there's always BT). If more than one survivor dies to camping, it's because they fed the camper. It's that simple.

    Survivors suiciding on the hook is not relevant because it's still feeding.

    Survivors are the ones who make camping worthwhile. They've always done so, hence the epidemic. Killers should not be punished for the survivors' bad decisions.

    Lastly, if the killer gets two kills, then by the devs' definition, it's a balanced strategy.

    That is exactly the fantasy that killer mains like to spread. The first four months that I played this game, I spent as a camping/tunneling killer. I'm talking literally hundreds of games of camping/tunneling. This is a subject that I have vasts amounts of experience in. This was when I didn't have all killers perks unlocked and at rank 3. And I still easily got and maintained rank 1 using this basic strategy. This was over a year ago when the game was much more difficult for killers as well. There have been many killer buffs and survivor nerfs in the last year.

    Why did I do all that camping and tunneling? Because it worked. Pure and simple. This hypothetical scenario that the survivors would punish me just didn't happen. Or at the least it was unbelievably rare. So at the risk of repeating myself I say again that killers camp for a reason. If survivors are incapable of punishing killers for camping then there is no reason for killers to stop. It is obviously something that ruins the experience of the game for many players so it is a problem. One that can be solved fairly for both sides.

  • Damon22441Damon22441 Member Posts: 20

    @Orion said:

    Why play a game when there's a real chance you might lose because you're not good enough? Because it's part of the challenge.

    There's no challenge to be had in spawning in front of a killer and being doomed to getting tunneled/proxied. It's simply a waste of time and fossil fuel.

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