We are aware of an issue where the Trapper's Ornate Mask is not appearing in your items - there is no need to contact Support for this matter, we will hopefully have a resolution to this shortly.
Due to unforeseen circumstances, the Withering Blight event is postponed until the release of the mid-chapter 3.3.0. We're working on getting the update ready as soon as possible and will keep you posted.
We have updated our Forum Rules. Please take a moment to read through them: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/87004/

Insta-heal Balance Suggestions

13

Comments

  • yeetyeet Member Posts: 1,625

    @powerbats said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @powerbats said:
    Ok so remove Billy and Bubba's insta downs, remove all Mori's except Yellow, remove Iridescent Hatchets, and Pinky's Finger, remove Myers Evil III. Now does that sound like a fair trade to deal with the insta heals because if so I'm sure survivors would agree to it.

    All the killer downs require skill, the insta-heals require a click. The non-existing killer's equivalent to an insta-heal would be the killer making a click and the survivor just losing one or two health states. If the killers could get such an add-on, survivors could keep the insta-heals.

    However, the insta-heals do not need to be removed entirely, they just need a rework. There are already some good suggestions in this thread here.

    Actually that's incorrect, it takes no skill to charge across the map and steer into a survivor or follow behind them and cheese with Billy's saw.

    Pinky's finger just follow them and whammo instant exposed, Huntress follow behind them instant down, Billy same. There's absolutely no skill involved in simply following behind someone with an insta down.

    But like i said you could have a timer required since in real life if you're trying to administer something along those lines there's prep time.

    That'dd keep people from simply dropping a pallet and insta healing to full similar to how they did it before with pause at pallet heal a few clicks etc.

    people who claim it takes no skill to down people with billy just suck at dodging saws lets be real lmao

  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 10,208

    @powerbats said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @powerbats said:
    Ok so remove Billy and Bubba's insta downs, remove all Mori's except Yellow, remove Iridescent Hatchets, and Pinky's Finger, remove Myers Evil III. Now does that sound like a fair trade to deal with the insta heals because if so I'm sure survivors would agree to it.

    All the killer downs require skill, the insta-heals require a click. The non-existing killer's equivalent to an insta-heal would be the killer making a click and the survivor just losing one or two health states. If the killers could get such an add-on, survivors could keep the insta-heals.

    However, the insta-heals do not need to be removed entirely, they just need a rework. There are already some good suggestions in this thread here.

    Actually that's incorrect, it takes no skill to charge across the map and steer into a survivor or follow behind them and cheese with Billy's saw.

    Pinky's finger just follow them and whammo instant exposed, Huntress follow behind them instant down, Billy same. There's absolutely no skill involved in simply following behind someone with an insta down.

    But like i said you could have a timer required since in real life if you're trying to administer something along those lines there's prep time.

    That'dd keep people from simply dropping a pallet and insta healing to full similar to how they did it before with pause at pallet heal a few clicks etc.

    Have you ever played billy?

  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 10,208

    @NuclearBurrito2 said:

    @Master said:

    @NuclearBurrito2 said:

    @Ihatelife said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Ihatelife said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Ihatelife said:
    Jesus christ. Survivors needs also some helpful stuff like insta-heals. Every side have a different benefits in the game. Such as the killer can mori survivors, insta-down them etc. Besides survivors more die than escape.

    I believe that helpful stuff should still be balanced. I'm fine with the existence of insta-heals as long as there is a downside which makes the add-on balanced.

    In general, if there is a strong perk/item/add-on for either survivors or killers, it should be balanced. I don't like the freebie character of insta-heals. It takes no skill, there is no risk. There is no equivalent for killers with such a freebie trait. A killer equivalent would be that somebody just randomly loses one or two health states. And of course, that doesn't sound reasonable at all. So why should survivors have such an unbalanced add-on?

    Than why killers should have mori, insta-downs add-ons? Mori after the nerf doesn't have a downside. You just need to hook a survivor and ta dam you can mori him. Without this you must have to get them killed by hooking them 3 times per person, so there is not downsides for this offering. Insta-down hatchets? Yes there is downside by reducing the carrying a hatchets to only 1, but you have unlimited times to use it and insta-heals are only once per trial.

    First, I don't think the Ebony Mori is balanced. It's too strong. But the existence of one unbalanced thing doesn't justify the existence of another unbalanced thing. There simply shouldn't be anything unbalanced in a game.

    As you described, insta-down hatchets have a downside. And on top, it still takes skill to hit a survivor and the killer has only 3 attempts (if the add-on for additional hatchets is used). After these 3 attempts, the chase is over. Insta-heals on the other side take no skill at all. Just make a click and it's done.

    It's similar to the one other insta-down add-on in DbD. That's it. Not a lot of killers even have insta-downs.

    "You can only use insta-heals once per trial" is not a downside, either. If you could use them multiple times, nobody would play DbD anymore.

    Than... I'm okay with insta-down nerf if we nerf a mori.

    Make a thread about nerfing Mori's then. I'm certainly up for the idea if you have something specific in mind

    Well 4 insta heals are way more powerful than a mori, so.....

    so...? Finish your sentence please

    So insta heals must be nerfed

  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 10,208
    edited February 14

    @fluffybunny said:

    @Master said:

    @NuclearBurrito2 said:

    @Ihatelife said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Ihatelife said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Ihatelife said:
    Jesus christ. Survivors needs also some helpful stuff like insta-heals. Every side have a different benefits in the game. Such as the killer can mori survivors, insta-down them etc. Besides survivors more die than escape.

    I believe that helpful stuff should still be balanced. I'm fine with the existence of insta-heals as long as there is a downside which makes the add-on balanced.

    In general, if there is a strong perk/item/add-on for either survivors or killers, it should be balanced. I don't like the freebie character of insta-heals. It takes no skill, there is no risk. There is no equivalent for killers with such a freebie trait. A killer equivalent would be that somebody just randomly loses one or two health states. And of course, that doesn't sound reasonable at all. So why should survivors have such an unbalanced add-on?

    Than why killers should have mori, insta-downs add-ons? Mori after the nerf doesn't have a downside. You just need to hook a survivor and ta dam you can mori him. Without this you must have to get them killed by hooking them 3 times per person, so there is not downsides for this offering. Insta-down hatchets? Yes there is downside by reducing the carrying a hatchets to only 1, but you have unlimited times to use it and insta-heals are only once per trial.

    First, I don't think the Ebony Mori is balanced. It's too strong. But the existence of one unbalanced thing doesn't justify the existence of another unbalanced thing. There simply shouldn't be anything unbalanced in a game.

    As you described, insta-down hatchets have a downside. And on top, it still takes skill to hit a survivor and the killer has only 3 attempts (if the add-on for additional hatchets is used). After these 3 attempts, the chase is over. Insta-heals on the other side take no skill at all. Just make a click and it's done.

    It's similar to the one other insta-down add-on in DbD. That's it. Not a lot of killers even have insta-downs.

    "You can only use insta-heals once per trial" is not a downside, either. If you could use them multiple times, nobody would play DbD anymore.

    Than... I'm okay with insta-down nerf if we nerf a mori.

    Make a thread about nerfing Mori's then. I'm certainly up for the idea if you have something specific in mind

    Well 4 insta heals are way more powerful than a mori, so.....

    I don't think those are actually more powerful than a mori, unless we're talking about the green sort specifically, which we wouldn't be. If everyone had a syringe, that would be 4 extra lives, while a mori would reduce 4 extra lives. Mind you, both are ultra rare and one side requires 4 to have the same affect. Additionally, moris can be done wherever and if you're getting up someone from the ground, you're often exchanging a health state for that. You also need to be in the right place at the right time. A person with a syringe being miles away from the downed person doesn't help even remotely. When you're chasing someone with a mori, you're often right on them.

    If I had to choose if I could use an ebony vs 4 insta heals or no mori vs no insta heals, I would prefer the no insta heal game :wink:

    The problem with isnta heals is that they can be used on downed survivor too and not only on yourself

    Oh and then there is still the insta heal exploit that BHVR doesnt bother fixing

  • WateryWatery Member Posts: 899
    Do keep in mind that syringe and stryptic are very rare items and cost a lot of bloodpoints. Insta-heal has its downsides- you lose the medkit, making it one time use.
  • NoShinyPonyNoShinyPony Member Posts: 3,447

    @Watery said:
    Do keep in mind that syringe and stryptic are very rare items and cost a lot of bloodpoints. Insta-heal has its downsides- you lose the medkit, making it one time use.

    These add-ons may be rare in theory but you find them in every bloodweb on lvl 50. Spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise. And of course, insta-heals are one-time-use? If they weren't, nobody would need to play this game anymore.

    When losing a brown medkit is the only argument somebody can bring up, then you know there really is no argument.

    We have talked about these points several times already in this thread.

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 2,161

    @Master said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @Master said:

    @NuclearBurrito2 said:

    @Ihatelife said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Ihatelife said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Ihatelife said:
    Jesus christ. Survivors needs also some helpful stuff like insta-heals. Every side have a different benefits in the game. Such as the killer can mori survivors, insta-down them etc. Besides survivors more die than escape.

    I believe that helpful stuff should still be balanced. I'm fine with the existence of insta-heals as long as there is a downside which makes the add-on balanced.

    In general, if there is a strong perk/item/add-on for either survivors or killers, it should be balanced. I don't like the freebie character of insta-heals. It takes no skill, there is no risk. There is no equivalent for killers with such a freebie trait. A killer equivalent would be that somebody just randomly loses one or two health states. And of course, that doesn't sound reasonable at all. So why should survivors have such an unbalanced add-on?

    Than why killers should have mori, insta-downs add-ons? Mori after the nerf doesn't have a downside. You just need to hook a survivor and ta dam you can mori him. Without this you must have to get them killed by hooking them 3 times per person, so there is not downsides for this offering. Insta-down hatchets? Yes there is downside by reducing the carrying a hatchets to only 1, but you have unlimited times to use it and insta-heals are only once per trial.

    First, I don't think the Ebony Mori is balanced. It's too strong. But the existence of one unbalanced thing doesn't justify the existence of another unbalanced thing. There simply shouldn't be anything unbalanced in a game.

    As you described, insta-down hatchets have a downside. And on top, it still takes skill to hit a survivor and the killer has only 3 attempts (if the add-on for additional hatchets is used). After these 3 attempts, the chase is over. Insta-heals on the other side take no skill at all. Just make a click and it's done.

    It's similar to the one other insta-down add-on in DbD. That's it. Not a lot of killers even have insta-downs.

    "You can only use insta-heals once per trial" is not a downside, either. If you could use them multiple times, nobody would play DbD anymore.

    Than... I'm okay with insta-down nerf if we nerf a mori.

    Make a thread about nerfing Mori's then. I'm certainly up for the idea if you have something specific in mind

    Well 4 insta heals are way more powerful than a mori, so.....

    I don't think those are actually more powerful than a mori, unless we're talking about the green sort specifically, which we wouldn't be. If everyone had a syringe, that would be 4 extra lives, while a mori would reduce 4 extra lives. Mind you, both are ultra rare and one side requires 4 to have the same affect. Additionally, moris can be done wherever and if you're getting up someone from the ground, you're often exchanging a health state for that. You also need to be in the right place at the right time. A person with a syringe being miles away from the downed person doesn't help even remotely. When you're chasing someone with a mori, you're often right on them.

    If I had to choose if I could use an ebony vs 4 insta heals or no mori vs no insta heals, I would prefer the no insta heal game :wink:

    The problem with isnta heals is that they can be used on downed survivor too and not only on yourself

    Oh and then there is still the insta heal exploit that BHVR doesnt bother fixing

    All things equal, it would actually only be 1 as that would be the equivalent of an ebony mori and I'd prefer something that often wouldn't impact the match (they have to be nearby/in a good position for it not to go to waste/be unused). If we're talking about a 4 man squad of insta heals, that'd be more like a one-down huntress with a mori.

    I haven't heard of an insta heal exploit, but I wouldn't be surprised with this game.

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 2,161

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Watery said:
    Do keep in mind that syringe and stryptic are very rare items and cost a lot of bloodpoints. Insta-heal has its downsides- you lose the medkit, making it one time use.

    These add-ons may be rare in theory but you find them in every bloodweb on lvl 50. Spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise. And of course, insta-heals are one-time-use? If they weren't, nobody would need to play this game anymore.

    When losing a brown medkit is the only argument somebody can bring up, then you know there really is no argument.

    We have talked about these points several times already in this thread.

    If they're in "every" bloodweb, where is it? I can go multiple bloodwebs without coming across one. Even if you say the percentage is high, it's not. Out of all my characters (I have all but 2 and 8 of which are level 50), only 2 have anything to do with the insta-meds on their webs and one of which is a rank 40 I'm bound to never play again unless I actually waste points at ranking him up and getting better perks (or, y'know, daily). I'd be up for the argument of limiting the type of medkit to green or higher, but saying it appears every bloodweb on lvl 50 is an outright lie and you know it. They are rare. That's the point of them. You're bound to go through 4+ looking for them. It may not feel like it is, though, 'cause we have cheaters among us who can just give themselves an unlimited supply.

  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 10,208

    @fluffybunny said:

    @Master said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @Master said:

    @NuclearBurrito2 said:

    @Ihatelife said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Ihatelife said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Ihatelife said:
    Jesus christ. Survivors needs also some helpful stuff like insta-heals. Every side have a different benefits in the game. Such as the killer can mori survivors, insta-down them etc. Besides survivors more die than escape.

    I believe that helpful stuff should still be balanced. I'm fine with the existence of insta-heals as long as there is a downside which makes the add-on balanced.

    In general, if there is a strong perk/item/add-on for either survivors or killers, it should be balanced. I don't like the freebie character of insta-heals. It takes no skill, there is no risk. There is no equivalent for killers with such a freebie trait. A killer equivalent would be that somebody just randomly loses one or two health states. And of course, that doesn't sound reasonable at all. So why should survivors have such an unbalanced add-on?

    Than why killers should have mori, insta-downs add-ons? Mori after the nerf doesn't have a downside. You just need to hook a survivor and ta dam you can mori him. Without this you must have to get them killed by hooking them 3 times per person, so there is not downsides for this offering. Insta-down hatchets? Yes there is downside by reducing the carrying a hatchets to only 1, but you have unlimited times to use it and insta-heals are only once per trial.

    First, I don't think the Ebony Mori is balanced. It's too strong. But the existence of one unbalanced thing doesn't justify the existence of another unbalanced thing. There simply shouldn't be anything unbalanced in a game.

    As you described, insta-down hatchets have a downside. And on top, it still takes skill to hit a survivor and the killer has only 3 attempts (if the add-on for additional hatchets is used). After these 3 attempts, the chase is over. Insta-heals on the other side take no skill at all. Just make a click and it's done.

    It's similar to the one other insta-down add-on in DbD. That's it. Not a lot of killers even have insta-downs.

    "You can only use insta-heals once per trial" is not a downside, either. If you could use them multiple times, nobody would play DbD anymore.

    Than... I'm okay with insta-down nerf if we nerf a mori.

    Make a thread about nerfing Mori's then. I'm certainly up for the idea if you have something specific in mind

    Well 4 insta heals are way more powerful than a mori, so.....

    I don't think those are actually more powerful than a mori, unless we're talking about the green sort specifically, which we wouldn't be. If everyone had a syringe, that would be 4 extra lives, while a mori would reduce 4 extra lives. Mind you, both are ultra rare and one side requires 4 to have the same affect. Additionally, moris can be done wherever and if you're getting up someone from the ground, you're often exchanging a health state for that. You also need to be in the right place at the right time. A person with a syringe being miles away from the downed person doesn't help even remotely. When you're chasing someone with a mori, you're often right on them.

    If I had to choose if I could use an ebony vs 4 insta heals or no mori vs no insta heals, I would prefer the no insta heal game :wink:

    The problem with isnta heals is that they can be used on downed survivor too and not only on yourself

    Oh and then there is still the insta heal exploit that BHVR doesnt bother fixing

    All things equal, it would actually only be 1 as that would be the equivalent of an ebony mori and I'd prefer something that often wouldn't impact the match (they have to be nearby/in a good position for it not to go to waste/be unused). If we're talking about a 4 man squad of insta heals, that'd be more like a one-down huntress with a mori.

    I haven't heard of an insta heal exploit, but I wouldn't be surprised with this game.

    Well, you know its a 1vs4.

    And guess what, 4 man squads are part of the game, but an instadown+mori offering is not

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 2,161

    @Master said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @Master said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @Master said:

    @NuclearBurrito2 said:

    @Ihatelife said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Ihatelife said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Ihatelife said:
    Jesus christ. Survivors needs also some helpful stuff like insta-heals. Every side have a different benefits in the game. Such as the killer can mori survivors, insta-down them etc. Besides survivors more die than escape.

    I believe that helpful stuff should still be balanced. I'm fine with the existence of insta-heals as long as there is a downside which makes the add-on balanced.

    In general, if there is a strong perk/item/add-on for either survivors or killers, it should be balanced. I don't like the freebie character of insta-heals. It takes no skill, there is no risk. There is no equivalent for killers with such a freebie trait. A killer equivalent would be that somebody just randomly loses one or two health states. And of course, that doesn't sound reasonable at all. So why should survivors have such an unbalanced add-on?

    Than why killers should have mori, insta-downs add-ons? Mori after the nerf doesn't have a downside. You just need to hook a survivor and ta dam you can mori him. Without this you must have to get them killed by hooking them 3 times per person, so there is not downsides for this offering. Insta-down hatchets? Yes there is downside by reducing the carrying a hatchets to only 1, but you have unlimited times to use it and insta-heals are only once per trial.

    First, I don't think the Ebony Mori is balanced. It's too strong. But the existence of one unbalanced thing doesn't justify the existence of another unbalanced thing. There simply shouldn't be anything unbalanced in a game.

    As you described, insta-down hatchets have a downside. And on top, it still takes skill to hit a survivor and the killer has only 3 attempts (if the add-on for additional hatchets is used). After these 3 attempts, the chase is over. Insta-heals on the other side take no skill at all. Just make a click and it's done.

    It's similar to the one other insta-down add-on in DbD. That's it. Not a lot of killers even have insta-downs.

    "You can only use insta-heals once per trial" is not a downside, either. If you could use them multiple times, nobody would play DbD anymore.

    Than... I'm okay with insta-down nerf if we nerf a mori.

    Make a thread about nerfing Mori's then. I'm certainly up for the idea if you have something specific in mind

    Well 4 insta heals are way more powerful than a mori, so.....

    I don't think those are actually more powerful than a mori, unless we're talking about the green sort specifically, which we wouldn't be. If everyone had a syringe, that would be 4 extra lives, while a mori would reduce 4 extra lives. Mind you, both are ultra rare and one side requires 4 to have the same affect. Additionally, moris can be done wherever and if you're getting up someone from the ground, you're often exchanging a health state for that. You also need to be in the right place at the right time. A person with a syringe being miles away from the downed person doesn't help even remotely. When you're chasing someone with a mori, you're often right on them.

    If I had to choose if I could use an ebony vs 4 insta heals or no mori vs no insta heals, I would prefer the no insta heal game :wink:

    The problem with isnta heals is that they can be used on downed survivor too and not only on yourself

    Oh and then there is still the insta heal exploit that BHVR doesnt bother fixing

    All things equal, it would actually only be 1 as that would be the equivalent of an ebony mori and I'd prefer something that often wouldn't impact the match (they have to be nearby/in a good position for it not to go to waste/be unused). If we're talking about a 4 man squad of insta heals, that'd be more like a one-down huntress with a mori.

    I haven't heard of an insta heal exploit, but I wouldn't be surprised with this game.

    Well, you know its a 1vs4.

    And guess what, 4 man squads are part of the game, but an instadown+mori offering is not

    Those are part of the game if someone chooses to use them, though, and it'd be going off of the same amount of points. I think the biggest issue (from what I've understood) is SWF and couldn't we counter something like that if we kept people in SWF groups from running the same items and perks? I've seen someone suggest something like that and still think it's a really good idea. I highly doubt you're gonna get a squad of mostly solo players who all bring in insta-meds.

  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 10,208

    @fluffybunny said:

    @Master said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @Master said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @Master said:

    @NuclearBurrito2 said:

    @Ihatelife said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Ihatelife said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Ihatelife said:
    Jesus christ. Survivors needs also some helpful stuff like insta-heals. Every side have a different benefits in the game. Such as the killer can mori survivors, insta-down them etc. Besides survivors more die than escape.

    I believe that helpful stuff should still be balanced. I'm fine with the existence of insta-heals as long as there is a downside which makes the add-on balanced.

    In general, if there is a strong perk/item/add-on for either survivors or killers, it should be balanced. I don't like the freebie character of insta-heals. It takes no skill, there is no risk. There is no equivalent for killers with such a freebie trait. A killer equivalent would be that somebody just randomly loses one or two health states. And of course, that doesn't sound reasonable at all. So why should survivors have such an unbalanced add-on?

    Than why killers should have mori, insta-downs add-ons? Mori after the nerf doesn't have a downside. You just need to hook a survivor and ta dam you can mori him. Without this you must have to get them killed by hooking them 3 times per person, so there is not downsides for this offering. Insta-down hatchets? Yes there is downside by reducing the carrying a hatchets to only 1, but you have unlimited times to use it and insta-heals are only once per trial.

    First, I don't think the Ebony Mori is balanced. It's too strong. But the existence of one unbalanced thing doesn't justify the existence of another unbalanced thing. There simply shouldn't be anything unbalanced in a game.

    As you described, insta-down hatchets have a downside. And on top, it still takes skill to hit a survivor and the killer has only 3 attempts (if the add-on for additional hatchets is used). After these 3 attempts, the chase is over. Insta-heals on the other side take no skill at all. Just make a click and it's done.

    It's similar to the one other insta-down add-on in DbD. That's it. Not a lot of killers even have insta-downs.

    "You can only use insta-heals once per trial" is not a downside, either. If you could use them multiple times, nobody would play DbD anymore.

    Than... I'm okay with insta-down nerf if we nerf a mori.

    Make a thread about nerfing Mori's then. I'm certainly up for the idea if you have something specific in mind

    Well 4 insta heals are way more powerful than a mori, so.....

    I don't think those are actually more powerful than a mori, unless we're talking about the green sort specifically, which we wouldn't be. If everyone had a syringe, that would be 4 extra lives, while a mori would reduce 4 extra lives. Mind you, both are ultra rare and one side requires 4 to have the same affect. Additionally, moris can be done wherever and if you're getting up someone from the ground, you're often exchanging a health state for that. You also need to be in the right place at the right time. A person with a syringe being miles away from the downed person doesn't help even remotely. When you're chasing someone with a mori, you're often right on them.

    If I had to choose if I could use an ebony vs 4 insta heals or no mori vs no insta heals, I would prefer the no insta heal game :wink:

    The problem with isnta heals is that they can be used on downed survivor too and not only on yourself

    Oh and then there is still the insta heal exploit that BHVR doesnt bother fixing

    All things equal, it would actually only be 1 as that would be the equivalent of an ebony mori and I'd prefer something that often wouldn't impact the match (they have to be nearby/in a good position for it not to go to waste/be unused). If we're talking about a 4 man squad of insta heals, that'd be more like a one-down huntress with a mori.

    I haven't heard of an insta heal exploit, but I wouldn't be surprised with this game.

    Well, you know its a 1vs4.

    And guess what, 4 man squads are part of the game, but an instadown+mori offering is not

    Those are part of the game if someone chooses to use them, though, and it'd be going off of the same amount of points. I think the biggest issue (from what I've understood) is SWF and couldn't we counter something like that if we kept people in SWF groups from running the same items and perks? I've seen someone suggest something like that and still think it's a really good idea. I highly doubt you're gonna get a squad of mostly solo players who all bring in insta-meds.

    That doesnt change the fact that it will always be 4vs1. 1 insta heal shoudl not be equally powerful to a mori

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 2,161

    @Master said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @Master said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @Master said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @Master said:

    @NuclearBurrito2 said:

    @Ihatelife said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Ihatelife said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Ihatelife said:
    Jesus christ. Survivors needs also some helpful stuff like insta-heals. Every side have a different benefits in the game. Such as the killer can mori survivors, insta-down them etc. Besides survivors more die than escape.

    I believe that helpful stuff should still be balanced. I'm fine with the existence of insta-heals as long as there is a downside which makes the add-on balanced.

    In general, if there is a strong perk/item/add-on for either survivors or killers, it should be balanced. I don't like the freebie character of insta-heals. It takes no skill, there is no risk. There is no equivalent for killers with such a freebie trait. A killer equivalent would be that somebody just randomly loses one or two health states. And of course, that doesn't sound reasonable at all. So why should survivors have such an unbalanced add-on?

    Than why killers should have mori, insta-downs add-ons? Mori after the nerf doesn't have a downside. You just need to hook a survivor and ta dam you can mori him. Without this you must have to get them killed by hooking them 3 times per person, so there is not downsides for this offering. Insta-down hatchets? Yes there is downside by reducing the carrying a hatchets to only 1, but you have unlimited times to use it and insta-heals are only once per trial.

    First, I don't think the Ebony Mori is balanced. It's too strong. But the existence of one unbalanced thing doesn't justify the existence of another unbalanced thing. There simply shouldn't be anything unbalanced in a game.

    As you described, insta-down hatchets have a downside. And on top, it still takes skill to hit a survivor and the killer has only 3 attempts (if the add-on for additional hatchets is used). After these 3 attempts, the chase is over. Insta-heals on the other side take no skill at all. Just make a click and it's done.

    It's similar to the one other insta-down add-on in DbD. That's it. Not a lot of killers even have insta-downs.

    "You can only use insta-heals once per trial" is not a downside, either. If you could use them multiple times, nobody would play DbD anymore.

    Than... I'm okay with insta-down nerf if we nerf a mori.

    Make a thread about nerfing Mori's then. I'm certainly up for the idea if you have something specific in mind

    Well 4 insta heals are way more powerful than a mori, so.....

    I don't think those are actually more powerful than a mori, unless we're talking about the green sort specifically, which we wouldn't be. If everyone had a syringe, that would be 4 extra lives, while a mori would reduce 4 extra lives. Mind you, both are ultra rare and one side requires 4 to have the same affect. Additionally, moris can be done wherever and if you're getting up someone from the ground, you're often exchanging a health state for that. You also need to be in the right place at the right time. A person with a syringe being miles away from the downed person doesn't help even remotely. When you're chasing someone with a mori, you're often right on them.

    If I had to choose if I could use an ebony vs 4 insta heals or no mori vs no insta heals, I would prefer the no insta heal game :wink:

    The problem with isnta heals is that they can be used on downed survivor too and not only on yourself

    Oh and then there is still the insta heal exploit that BHVR doesnt bother fixing

    All things equal, it would actually only be 1 as that would be the equivalent of an ebony mori and I'd prefer something that often wouldn't impact the match (they have to be nearby/in a good position for it not to go to waste/be unused). If we're talking about a 4 man squad of insta heals, that'd be more like a one-down huntress with a mori.

    I haven't heard of an insta heal exploit, but I wouldn't be surprised with this game.

    Well, you know its a 1vs4.

    And guess what, 4 man squads are part of the game, but an instadown+mori offering is not

    Those are part of the game if someone chooses to use them, though, and it'd be going off of the same amount of points. I think the biggest issue (from what I've understood) is SWF and couldn't we counter something like that if we kept people in SWF groups from running the same items and perks? I've seen someone suggest something like that and still think it's a really good idea. I highly doubt you're gonna get a squad of mostly solo players who all bring in insta-meds.

    That doesnt change the fact that it will always be 4vs1. 1 insta heal shoudl not be equally powerful to a mori

    Well, I'm going off of points, though they would probably have about same amount of rarity and likely hood of finding them. If the team isn't coordinated, they'd be less likely to randomly equip it and they still need to be nearby to have the full affect, otherwise they're just using it on themselves. There's a lot to account for that you really don't have to account for with a mori. Franky's can be used if you see a full team of med-kits, too. Killers get the benefit of seeing what they might be opposing and adjusting their build accordingly. My biggest issue is making there be a exposed affect immediately after using it makes it super useless as an item.

  • NuclearBurrito2NuclearBurrito2 Member Posts: 262

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Watery said:
    Do keep in mind that syringe and stryptic are very rare items and cost a lot of bloodpoints. Insta-heal has its downsides- you lose the medkit, making it one time use.

    These add-ons may be rare in theory but you find them in every bloodweb on lvl 50. Spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise. And of course, insta-heals are one-time-use? If they weren't, nobody would need to play this game anymore.

    When losing a brown medkit is the only argument somebody can bring up, then you know there really is no argument.

    We have talked about these points several times already in this thread.

    If they're in "every" bloodweb, where is it?

    bottom left ;)

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 2,161
    edited February 14

    @NuclearBurrito2 said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Watery said:
    Do keep in mind that syringe and stryptic are very rare items and cost a lot of bloodpoints. Insta-heal has its downsides- you lose the medkit, making it one time use.

    These add-ons may be rare in theory but you find them in every bloodweb on lvl 50. Spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise. And of course, insta-heals are one-time-use? If they weren't, nobody would need to play this game anymore.

    When losing a brown medkit is the only argument somebody can bring up, then you know there really is no argument.

    We have talked about these points several times already in this thread.

    If they're in "every" bloodweb, where is it?

    bottom left ;)

    I am so curious if that's going to be a brand new part. That add-on is utterly useless now. Given, it needed a tweak, but still. EDIT: It was a BNP fml lol

  • NuclearBurrito2NuclearBurrito2 Member Posts: 262

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NuclearBurrito2 said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Watery said:
    Do keep in mind that syringe and stryptic are very rare items and cost a lot of bloodpoints. Insta-heal has its downsides- you lose the medkit, making it one time use.

    These add-ons may be rare in theory but you find them in every bloodweb on lvl 50. Spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise. And of course, insta-heals are one-time-use? If they weren't, nobody would need to play this game anymore.

    When losing a brown medkit is the only argument somebody can bring up, then you know there really is no argument.

    We have talked about these points several times already in this thread.

    If they're in "every" bloodweb, where is it?

    bottom left ;)

    I am so curious if that's going to be a brand new part. That add-on is utterly useless now. Given, it needed a tweak, but still. EDIT: It was a BNP fml lol

    If it was an insta-heal that would have been hilarious

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 2,161

    @NuclearBurrito2 said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Watery said:
    Do keep in mind that syringe and stryptic are very rare items and cost a lot of bloodpoints. Insta-heal has its downsides- you lose the medkit, making it one time use.

    These add-ons may be rare in theory but you find them in every bloodweb on lvl 50. Spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise. And of course, insta-heals are one-time-use? If they weren't, nobody would need to play this game anymore.

    When losing a brown medkit is the only argument somebody can bring up, then you know there really is no argument.

    We have talked about these points several times already in this thread.

    If they're in "every" bloodweb, where is it?

    bottom left ;)

    I am so curious if that's going to be a brand new part. That add-on is utterly useless now. Given, it needed a tweak, but still.> @NuclearBurrito2 said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NuclearBurrito2 said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Watery said:
    Do keep in mind that syringe and stryptic are very rare items and cost a lot of bloodpoints. Insta-heal has its downsides- you lose the medkit, making it one time use.

    These add-ons may be rare in theory but you find them in every bloodweb on lvl 50. Spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise. And of course, insta-heals are one-time-use? If they weren't, nobody would need to play this game anymore.

    When losing a brown medkit is the only argument somebody can bring up, then you know there really is no argument.

    We have talked about these points several times already in this thread.

    If they're in "every" bloodweb, where is it?

    bottom left ;)

    I am so curious if that's going to be a brand new part. That add-on is utterly useless now. Given, it needed a tweak, but still. EDIT: It was a BNP fml lol

    If it was an insta-heal that would have been hilarious

    It would have been really funny. xD The next page didn't have either insta-meds, either.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,071

    @Master said:

    Have you ever played billy?

    Yes I have and I don't play him well but I can still charge across the map and down ppl and cheese behind them with my chainsaw charged.

  • NoShinyPonyNoShinyPony Member Posts: 3,447

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Watery said:
    Do keep in mind that syringe and stryptic are very rare items and cost a lot of bloodpoints. Insta-heal has its downsides- you lose the medkit, making it one time use.

    These add-ons may be rare in theory but you find them in every bloodweb on lvl 50. Spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise. And of course, insta-heals are one-time-use? If they weren't, nobody would need to play this game anymore.

    When losing a brown medkit is the only argument somebody can bring up, then you know there really is no argument.

    We have talked about these points several times already in this thread.

    If they're in "every" bloodweb, where is it? I can go multiple bloodwebs without coming across one. Even if you say the percentage is high, it's not. Out of all my characters (I have all but 2 and 8 of which are level 50), only 2 have anything to do with the insta-meds on their webs and one of which is a rank 40 I'm bound to never play again unless I actually waste points at ranking him up and getting better perks (or, y'know, daily). I'd be up for the argument of limiting the type of medkit to green or higher, but saying it appears every bloodweb on lvl 50 is an outright lie and you know it. They are rare. That's the point of them. You're bound to go through 4+ looking for them. It may not feel like it is, though, 'cause we have cheaters among us who can just give themselves an unlimited supply.

    I like how you chose to ignore the entire balance issue and instead post a screenshot of a bloodweb where you don't have an insta-heal.

    We already established that spending bloodpoints, the cost of items/add-ons etc. have nothing to do with gameplay balance.

    Just shows to everyone that you very well know that these add-ons are unbalanced freebies for survivors and you don't know which point you could bring up to justify keeping insta-heals as they are. Which is understandable, since there just is no valid point.

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 2,161

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Watery said:
    Do keep in mind that syringe and stryptic are very rare items and cost a lot of bloodpoints. Insta-heal has its downsides- you lose the medkit, making it one time use.

    These add-ons may be rare in theory but you find them in every bloodweb on lvl 50. Spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise. And of course, insta-heals are one-time-use? If they weren't, nobody would need to play this game anymore.

    When losing a brown medkit is the only argument somebody can bring up, then you know there really is no argument.

    We have talked about these points several times already in this thread.

    If they're in "every" bloodweb, where is it? I can go multiple bloodwebs without coming across one. Even if you say the percentage is high, it's not. Out of all my characters (I have all but 2 and 8 of which are level 50), only 2 have anything to do with the insta-meds on their webs and one of which is a rank 40 I'm bound to never play again unless I actually waste points at ranking him up and getting better perks (or, y'know, daily). I'd be up for the argument of limiting the type of medkit to green or higher, but saying it appears every bloodweb on lvl 50 is an outright lie and you know it. They are rare. That's the point of them. You're bound to go through 4+ looking for them. It may not feel like it is, though, 'cause we have cheaters among us who can just give themselves an unlimited supply.

    I like how you chose to ignore the entire balance issue and instead post a screenshot of a bloodweb where you don't have an insta-heal.

    We already established that spending bloodpoints, the cost of items/add-ons etc. have nothing to do with gameplay balance.

    Just shows to everyone that you very well know that these add-ons are unbalanced freebies for survivors and you don't know which point you could bring up to justify keeping insta-heals as they are. Which is understandable, since there just is no valid point.

    Nah, I'm just pointing out holes in your argument. I've already approached with my opinions of what's being pushed and you've willfully not acknowledged or dismissed it. Exaggeration doesn't really help your case, like pretending survivors just are fed points for existing and therefore always have a ton of extra BP to spend.

  • NoShinyPonyNoShinyPony Member Posts: 3,447

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Watery said:
    Do keep in mind that syringe and stryptic are very rare items and cost a lot of bloodpoints. Insta-heal has its downsides- you lose the medkit, making it one time use.

    These add-ons may be rare in theory but you find them in every bloodweb on lvl 50. Spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise. And of course, insta-heals are one-time-use? If they weren't, nobody would need to play this game anymore.

    When losing a brown medkit is the only argument somebody can bring up, then you know there really is no argument.

    We have talked about these points several times already in this thread.

    If they're in "every" bloodweb, where is it? I can go multiple bloodwebs without coming across one. Even if you say the percentage is high, it's not. Out of all my characters (I have all but 2 and 8 of which are level 50), only 2 have anything to do with the insta-meds on their webs and one of which is a rank 40 I'm bound to never play again unless I actually waste points at ranking him up and getting better perks (or, y'know, daily). I'd be up for the argument of limiting the type of medkit to green or higher, but saying it appears every bloodweb on lvl 50 is an outright lie and you know it. They are rare. That's the point of them. You're bound to go through 4+ looking for them. It may not feel like it is, though, 'cause we have cheaters among us who can just give themselves an unlimited supply.

    I like how you chose to ignore the entire balance issue and instead post a screenshot of a bloodweb where you don't have an insta-heal.

    We already established that spending bloodpoints, the cost of items/add-ons etc. have nothing to do with gameplay balance.

    Just shows to everyone that you very well know that these add-ons are unbalanced freebies for survivors and you don't know which point you could bring up to justify keeping insta-heals as they are. Which is understandable, since there just is no valid point.

    Nah, I'm just pointing out holes in your argument. I've already approached with my opinions of what's being pushed and you've willfully not acknowledged or dismissed it. Exaggeration doesn't really help your case, like pretending survivors just are fed points for existing and therefore always have a ton of extra BP to spend.

    It's not a hole in my argumentation. We are not talking about the cost of add-ons.

    You refuse to talk about the topic of the thread which is the balance of insta-heals. Instead, you try to distract with talking about how often these add-ons appear in bloodwebs, how they are so expensive... It's like writing in a NOED discussion thread "My character is on lvl 40 and still no NOED".

    If you don't want to talk about the topic of the thread, that's totally fine. Just stop writing here. But stop trying to disctract and acknowledge valid arguments.

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 2,161

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Watery said:
    Do keep in mind that syringe and stryptic are very rare items and cost a lot of bloodpoints. Insta-heal has its downsides- you lose the medkit, making it one time use.

    These add-ons may be rare in theory but you find them in every bloodweb on lvl 50. Spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise. And of course, insta-heals are one-time-use? If they weren't, nobody would need to play this game anymore.

    When losing a brown medkit is the only argument somebody can bring up, then you know there really is no argument.

    We have talked about these points several times already in this thread.

    If they're in "every" bloodweb, where is it? I can go multiple bloodwebs without coming across one. Even if you say the percentage is high, it's not. Out of all my characters (I have all but 2 and 8 of which are level 50), only 2 have anything to do with the insta-meds on their webs and one of which is a rank 40 I'm bound to never play again unless I actually waste points at ranking him up and getting better perks (or, y'know, daily). I'd be up for the argument of limiting the type of medkit to green or higher, but saying it appears every bloodweb on lvl 50 is an outright lie and you know it. They are rare. That's the point of them. You're bound to go through 4+ looking for them. It may not feel like it is, though, 'cause we have cheaters among us who can just give themselves an unlimited supply.

    I like how you chose to ignore the entire balance issue and instead post a screenshot of a bloodweb where you don't have an insta-heal.

    We already established that spending bloodpoints, the cost of items/add-ons etc. have nothing to do with gameplay balance.

    Just shows to everyone that you very well know that these add-ons are unbalanced freebies for survivors and you don't know which point you could bring up to justify keeping insta-heals as they are. Which is understandable, since there just is no valid point.

    Nah, I'm just pointing out holes in your argument. I've already approached with my opinions of what's being pushed and you've willfully not acknowledged or dismissed it. Exaggeration doesn't really help your case, like pretending survivors just are fed points for existing and therefore always have a ton of extra BP to spend.

    It's not a hole in my argumentation. We are not talking about the cost of add-ons.

    You refuse to talk about the topic of the thread which is the balance of insta-heals. Instead, you try to distract with talking about how often these add-ons appear in bloodwebs, how they are so expensive... It's like writing in a NOED discussion thread "My character is on lvl 40 and still no NOED".

    If you don't want to talk about the topic of the thread, that's totally fine. Just stop writing here. But stop trying to disctract and acknowledge valid arguments.

    The first post indicated a change should be done to insta-heals. While I agree the item/add-on should be weakened, I don't think the change should be as abysmal as "you're exposed when you use it" since that would make it relatively unusable. It's supposed to be an ultra rare item and those should help you win. They do on the killer side. Why should they get in the way and actually screw over the person using it when used on the survivor side?

    And sure "It's like writing in a NOED discussion thread "My character is on lvl 40 and still no NOED"." would be valid if your argument against people saying it's expensive and therefore shouldn't be useless wasn't that you can get every bloodweb. Going back to you saying "These add-ons may be rare in theory but you find them in every bloodweb on lvl 50." The point in my post is to point out how much of an exaggeration that is. And maybe "Spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise." is true for you, but it isn't true for someone who's still leveling up their characters, getting new perks and so on. They're still adding new characters, too, and they may want all the perks on one or multiple characters.

    "But stop trying to disctract and acknowledge valid arguments." In this case is the same as saying "agree with me," right? Because you don't find the argument "valid" and therefore it should be dismissed.

  • NoShinyPonyNoShinyPony Member Posts: 3,447

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Watery said:
    Do keep in mind that syringe and stryptic are very rare items and cost a lot of bloodpoints. Insta-heal has its downsides- you lose the medkit, making it one time use.

    These add-ons may be rare in theory but you find them in every bloodweb on lvl 50. Spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise. And of course, insta-heals are one-time-use? If they weren't, nobody would need to play this game anymore.

    When losing a brown medkit is the only argument somebody can bring up, then you know there really is no argument.

    We have talked about these points several times already in this thread.

    If they're in "every" bloodweb, where is it? I can go multiple bloodwebs without coming across one. Even if you say the percentage is high, it's not. Out of all my characters (I have all but 2 and 8 of which are level 50), only 2 have anything to do with the insta-meds on their webs and one of which is a rank 40 I'm bound to never play again unless I actually waste points at ranking him up and getting better perks (or, y'know, daily). I'd be up for the argument of limiting the type of medkit to green or higher, but saying it appears every bloodweb on lvl 50 is an outright lie and you know it. They are rare. That's the point of them. You're bound to go through 4+ looking for them. It may not feel like it is, though, 'cause we have cheaters among us who can just give themselves an unlimited supply.

    I like how you chose to ignore the entire balance issue and instead post a screenshot of a bloodweb where you don't have an insta-heal.

    We already established that spending bloodpoints, the cost of items/add-ons etc. have nothing to do with gameplay balance.

    Just shows to everyone that you very well know that these add-ons are unbalanced freebies for survivors and you don't know which point you could bring up to justify keeping insta-heals as they are. Which is understandable, since there just is no valid point.

    Nah, I'm just pointing out holes in your argument. I've already approached with my opinions of what's being pushed and you've willfully not acknowledged or dismissed it. Exaggeration doesn't really help your case, like pretending survivors just are fed points for existing and therefore always have a ton of extra BP to spend.

    It's not a hole in my argumentation. We are not talking about the cost of add-ons.

    You refuse to talk about the topic of the thread which is the balance of insta-heals. Instead, you try to distract with talking about how often these add-ons appear in bloodwebs, how they are so expensive... It's like writing in a NOED discussion thread "My character is on lvl 40 and still no NOED".

    If you don't want to talk about the topic of the thread, that's totally fine. Just stop writing here. But stop trying to disctract and acknowledge valid arguments.

    The first post indicated a change should be done to insta-heals. While I agree the item/add-on should be weakened, I don't think the change should be as abysmal as "you're exposed when you use it" since that would make it relatively unusable. It's supposed to be an ultra rare item and those should help you win. They do on the killer side. Why should they get in the way and actually screw over the person using it when used on the survivor side?

    Giving the exposed status effect would not "screw over" the person using the insta-heal. It would in many cases prevent insta-heals from being used in front of the killer, for example in a chase. But it would not make the insta-heal unusable at all since it would still save the survivors a lot of time.

    And sure "It's like writing in a NOED discussion thread "My character is on lvl 40 and still no NOED"." would be valid if your argument against people saying it's expensive and therefore shouldn't be useless wasn't that you can get every bloodweb. Going back to you saying "These add-ons may be rare in theory but you find them in every bloodweb on lvl 50." The point in my post is to point out how much of an exaggeration that is. And maybe "Spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise." is true for you, but it isn't true for someone who's still leveling up their characters, getting new perks and so on.

    That spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise and therefore not something that has anything to do with the balance of insta-heals is a fact. A fact is not anything you can have an opinion on. Like the earth is not flat. That's a fact and not something you can have an opinion on.

    "But stop trying to disctract and acknowledge valid arguments." In this case is the same as saying "agree with me," right? Because you don't find the argument "valid" and therefore it should be dismissed.

    It's not about you having to agree with me. It's about that when you have a discussion with other people they expect you to bring up valid points and when you don't but instead try to distract, then they'll notice and say something about it.

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 2,161
    edited February 15

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Watery said:
    Do keep in mind that syringe and stryptic are very rare items and cost a lot of bloodpoints. Insta-heal has its downsides- you lose the medkit, making it one time use.

    These add-ons may be rare in theory but you find them in every bloodweb on lvl 50. Spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise. And of course, insta-heals are one-time-use? If they weren't, nobody would need to play this game anymore.

    When losing a brown medkit is the only argument somebody can bring up, then you know there really is no argument.

    We have talked about these points several times already in this thread.

    If they're in "every" bloodweb, where is it? I can go multiple bloodwebs without coming across one. Even if you say the percentage is high, it's not. Out of all my characters (I have all but 2 and 8 of which are level 50), only 2 have anything to do with the insta-meds on their webs and one of which is a rank 40 I'm bound to never play again unless I actually waste points at ranking him up and getting better perks (or, y'know, daily). I'd be up for the argument of limiting the type of medkit to green or higher, but saying it appears every bloodweb on lvl 50 is an outright lie and you know it. They are rare. That's the point of them. You're bound to go through 4+ looking for them. It may not feel like it is, though, 'cause we have cheaters among us who can just give themselves an unlimited supply.

    I like how you chose to ignore the entire balance issue and instead post a screenshot of a bloodweb where you don't have an insta-heal.

    We already established that spending bloodpoints, the cost of items/add-ons etc. have nothing to do with gameplay balance.

    Just shows to everyone that you very well know that these add-ons are unbalanced freebies for survivors and you don't know which point you could bring up to justify keeping insta-heals as they are. Which is understandable, since there just is no valid point.

    Nah, I'm just pointing out holes in your argument. I've already approached with my opinions of what's being pushed and you've willfully not acknowledged or dismissed it. Exaggeration doesn't really help your case, like pretending survivors just are fed points for existing and therefore always have a ton of extra BP to spend.

    It's not a hole in my argumentation. We are not talking about the cost of add-ons.

    You refuse to talk about the topic of the thread which is the balance of insta-heals. Instead, you try to distract with talking about how often these add-ons appear in bloodwebs, how they are so expensive... It's like writing in a NOED discussion thread "My character is on lvl 40 and still no NOED".

    If you don't want to talk about the topic of the thread, that's totally fine. Just stop writing here. But stop trying to disctract and acknowledge valid arguments.

    The first post indicated a change should be done to insta-heals. While I agree the item/add-on should be weakened, I don't think the change should be as abysmal as "you're exposed when you use it" since that would make it relatively unusable. It's supposed to be an ultra rare item and those should help you win. They do on the killer side. Why should they get in the way and actually screw over the person using it when used on the survivor side?

    Giving the exposed status effect would not "screw over" the person using the insta-heal. It would in many cases prevent insta-heals from being used in front of the killer, for example in a chase. But it would not make the insta-heal unusable at all since it would still save the survivors a lot of time.

    And sure "It's like writing in a NOED discussion thread "My character is on lvl 40 and still no NOED"." would be valid if your argument against people saying it's expensive and therefore shouldn't be useless wasn't that you can get every bloodweb. Going back to you saying "These add-ons may be rare in theory but you find them in every bloodweb on lvl 50." The point in my post is to point out how much of an exaggeration that is. And maybe "Spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise." is true for you, but it isn't true for someone who's still leveling up their characters, getting new perks and so on.

    That spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise and therefore not something that has anything to do with the balance of insta-heals is a fact. A fact is not anything you can have an opinion on. Like the earth is not flat. That's a fact and not something you can have an opinion on.

    "But stop trying to disctract and acknowledge valid arguments." In this case is the same as saying "agree with me," right? Because you don't find the argument "valid" and therefore it should be dismissed.

    It's not about you having to agree with me. It's about that when you have a discussion with other people they expect you to bring up valid points and when you don't but instead try to distract, then they'll notice and say something about it.

    People aren't going to equip an item that'll give them an exposed affect. What times do you see insta-heals used? If someone's being tunneled off hook and you try to insta-heal them, they're likely to go right back down if they're in a bad spot. Given people shouldn't be able to just insta-heal mid-chase as easily. I agree that's dumb, but giving it such a downside isn't the way to go. I saw someone suggest making it a heal over time, which sounds interesting to me. I'd be up for that change. Like maybe it would go off of the medkit's speed.

    If you're rank 50 and don't have any, sifting through a bloodweb to look for more is a downside. That's a fact. If you switch to another character who may not have all your typical perks or even good ones, it'll advantage the killer as you may forget or not play with your typical build so be out of element. This isn't a flat earth sort of conversation, but the fact that you're treating it as such is telling.

    The opposite of agreeing with your point would be to say "I don't think you should be exposed because of x,y,z." I did so and I'm being told to stop misdirecting the conversation. How is that not about having to agree with you?

  • WateryWatery Member Posts: 899

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Watery said:
    Do keep in mind that syringe and stryptic are very rare items and cost a lot of bloodpoints. Insta-heal has its downsides- you lose the medkit, making it one time use.

    These add-ons may be rare in theory but you find them in every bloodweb on lvl 50. Spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise. And of course, insta-heals are one-time-use? If they weren't, nobody would need to play this game anymore.

    When losing a brown medkit is the only argument somebody can bring up, then you know there really is no argument.

    We have talked about these points several times already in this thread.

    If they're in "every" bloodweb, where is it? I can go multiple bloodwebs without coming across one. Even if you say the percentage is high, it's not. Out of all my characters (I have all but 2 and 8 of which are level 50), only 2 have anything to do with the insta-meds on their webs and one of which is a rank 40 I'm bound to never play again unless I actually waste points at ranking him up and getting better perks (or, y'know, daily). I'd be up for the argument of limiting the type of medkit to green or higher, but saying it appears every bloodweb on lvl 50 is an outright lie and you know it. They are rare. That's the point of them. You're bound to go through 4+ looking for them. It may not feel like it is, though, 'cause we have cheaters among us who can just give themselves an unlimited supply.

    I like how you chose to ignore the entire balance issue and instead post a screenshot of a bloodweb where you don't have an insta-heal.

    We already established that spending bloodpoints, the cost of items/add-ons etc. have nothing to do with gameplay balance.

    Just shows to everyone that you very well know that these add-ons are unbalanced freebies for survivors and you don't know which point you could bring up to justify keeping insta-heals as they are. Which is understandable, since there just is no valid point.

    Nah, I'm just pointing out holes in your argument. I've already approached with my opinions of what's being pushed and you've willfully not acknowledged or dismissed it. Exaggeration doesn't really help your case, like pretending survivors just are fed points for existing and therefore always have a ton of extra BP to spend.

    It's not a hole in my argumentation. We are not talking about the cost of add-ons.

    You refuse to talk about the topic of the thread which is the balance of insta-heals. Instead, you try to distract with talking about how often these add-ons appear in bloodwebs, how they are so expensive... It's like writing in a NOED discussion thread "My character is on lvl 40 and still no NOED".

    If you don't want to talk about the topic of the thread, that's totally fine. Just stop writing here. But stop trying to disctract and acknowledge valid arguments.

    The first post indicated a change should be done to insta-heals. While I agree the item/add-on should be weakened, I don't think the change should be as abysmal as "you're exposed when you use it" since that would make it relatively unusable. It's supposed to be an ultra rare item and those should help you win. They do on the killer side. Why should they get in the way and actually screw over the person using it when used on the survivor side?

    Giving the exposed status effect would not "screw over" the person using the insta-heal. It would in many cases prevent insta-heals from being used in front of the killer, for example in a chase. But it would not make the insta-heal unusable at all since it would still save the survivors a lot of time.

    And sure "It's like writing in a NOED discussion thread "My character is on lvl 40 and still no NOED"." would be valid if your argument against people saying it's expensive and therefore shouldn't be useless wasn't that you can get every bloodweb. Going back to you saying "These add-ons may be rare in theory but you find them in every bloodweb on lvl 50." The point in my post is to point out how much of an exaggeration that is. And maybe "Spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise." is true for you, but it isn't true for someone who's still leveling up their characters, getting new perks and so on.

    That spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise and therefore not something that has anything to do with the balance of insta-heals is a fact. A fact is not anything you can have an opinion on. Like the earth is not flat. That's a fact and not something you can have an opinion on.

    "But stop trying to disctract and acknowledge valid arguments." In this case is the same as saying "agree with me," right? Because you don't find the argument "valid" and therefore it should be dismissed.

    It's not about you having to agree with me. It's about that when you have a discussion with other people they expect you to bring up valid points and when you don't but instead try to distract, then they'll notice and say something about it.

    People aren't going to equip an item that'll give them an exposed affect. What times do you see insta-heals used? If someone's being tunneled off hook and you try to insta-heal them, they're likely to go right back down if they're in a bad spot. Given people shouldn't be able to just insta-heal mid-chase as easily. I agree that's dumb, but giving it such a downside isn't the way to go. I saw someone suggest making it a heal over time, which sounds interesting to me. I'd be up for that change. Like maybe it would go off of the medkit's speed.

    If you're rank 50 and don't have any, sifting through a bloodweb to look for more is a downside. That's a fact. If you switch to another character who may not have all your typical perks or even good ones, it'll advantage the killer as you may forget or not play with your typical build so be out of element. This isn't a flat earth sort of conversation, but the fact that you're treating it as such is telling.

    The opposite of agreeing with your point would be to say "I don't think you should be exposed because of x,y,z." I did so and I'm being told to stop misdirecting the conversation. How is that not about having to agree with you?

    Yeah. If insta heals aren’t balanced- what about insta-down? You’ve constantly said our medkit addons are OP, 
    Yet, for some reason, you never fail to mention the downsides. Look- addons, especially purple or pink, are EXPENSIVE. The exposed status, while controversial, has the ability to reward bad playstyles, and skills.
    If you can’t listen to us, why should we listen to you?
  • NoShinyPonyNoShinyPony Member Posts: 3,447

    @Watery said:
    Yeah. If insta heals aren’t balanced- what about insta-down? You’ve constantly said our medkit addons are OP, 

    "Our" medkit add-ons? What do you mean by "our"? Do you think I never play surv?

    Concerning the rest, I explained these points plenty of times. Read the thread. If you still have questions afterwards, I'll explain what's unclear.

  • NoShinyPonyNoShinyPony Member Posts: 3,447

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @Watery said:
    Do keep in mind that syringe and stryptic are very rare items and cost a lot of bloodpoints. Insta-heal has its downsides- you lose the medkit, making it one time use.

    These add-ons may be rare in theory but you find them in every bloodweb on lvl 50. Spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise. And of course, insta-heals are one-time-use? If they weren't, nobody would need to play this game anymore.

    When losing a brown medkit is the only argument somebody can bring up, then you know there really is no argument.

    We have talked about these points several times already in this thread.

    If they're in "every" bloodweb, where is it? I can go multiple bloodwebs without coming across one. Even if you say the percentage is high, it's not. Out of all my characters (I have all but 2 and 8 of which are level 50), only 2 have anything to do with the insta-meds on their webs and one of which is a rank 40 I'm bound to never play again unless I actually waste points at ranking him up and getting better perks (or, y'know, daily). I'd be up for the argument of limiting the type of medkit to green or higher, but saying it appears every bloodweb on lvl 50 is an outright lie and you know it. They are rare. That's the point of them. You're bound to go through 4+ looking for them. It may not feel like it is, though, 'cause we have cheaters among us who can just give themselves an unlimited supply.

    I like how you chose to ignore the entire balance issue and instead post a screenshot of a bloodweb where you don't have an insta-heal.

    We already established that spending bloodpoints, the cost of items/add-ons etc. have nothing to do with gameplay balance.

    Just shows to everyone that you very well know that these add-ons are unbalanced freebies for survivors and you don't know which point you could bring up to justify keeping insta-heals as they are. Which is understandable, since there just is no valid point.

    Nah, I'm just pointing out holes in your argument. I've already approached with my opinions of what's being pushed and you've willfully not acknowledged or dismissed it. Exaggeration doesn't really help your case, like pretending survivors just are fed points for existing and therefore always have a ton of extra BP to spend.

    It's not a hole in my argumentation. We are not talking about the cost of add-ons.

    You refuse to talk about the topic of the thread which is the balance of insta-heals. Instead, you try to distract with talking about how often these add-ons appear in bloodwebs, how they are so expensive... It's like writing in a NOED discussion thread "My character is on lvl 40 and still no NOED".

    If you don't want to talk about the topic of the thread, that's totally fine. Just stop writing here. But stop trying to disctract and acknowledge valid arguments.

    The first post indicated a change should be done to insta-heals. While I agree the item/add-on should be weakened, I don't think the change should be as abysmal as "you're exposed when you use it" since that would make it relatively unusable. It's supposed to be an ultra rare item and those should help you win. They do on the killer side. Why should they get in the way and actually screw over the person using it when used on the survivor side?

    Giving the exposed status effect would not "screw over" the person using the insta-heal. It would in many cases prevent insta-heals from being used in front of the killer, for example in a chase. But it would not make the insta-heal unusable at all since it would still save the survivors a lot of time.

    And sure "It's like writing in a NOED discussion thread "My character is on lvl 40 and still no NOED"." would be valid if your argument against people saying it's expensive and therefore shouldn't be useless wasn't that you can get every bloodweb. Going back to you saying "These add-ons may be rare in theory but you find them in every bloodweb on lvl 50." The point in my post is to point out how much of an exaggeration that is. And maybe "Spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise." is true for you, but it isn't true for someone who's still leveling up their characters, getting new perks and so on.

    That spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise and therefore not something that has anything to do with the balance of insta-heals is a fact. A fact is not anything you can have an opinion on. Like the earth is not flat. That's a fact and not something you can have an opinion on.

    "But stop trying to disctract and acknowledge valid arguments." In this case is the same as saying "agree with me," right? Because you don't find the argument "valid" and therefore it should be dismissed.

    It's not about you having to agree with me. It's about that when you have a discussion with other people they expect you to bring up valid points and when you don't but instead try to distract, then they'll notice and say something about it.

    People aren't going to equip an item that'll give them an exposed affect. What times do you see insta-heals used? If someone's being tunneled off hook and you try to insta-heal them, they're likely to go right back down if they're in a bad spot. Given people shouldn't be able to just insta-heal mid-chase as easily.

    I was suggesting the exposed effect as a mean to prevent the use of insta-heals mid-chase. It doesn't have to be the exposed effect. If anything else works as well, I'm open to other suggestions. And other good suggestions have been made in this thread and I wrote these suggestions could work as well. Don't pretend that I insisted on the exposed effect. At this point I really believe you did not even read the entire thread.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,071

    @NoShinyPony said:

    I was suggesting the exposed effect as a mean to prevent the use of insta-heals mid-chase. It doesn't have to be the exposed effect. If anything else works as well, I'm open to other suggestions. And other good suggestions have been made in this thread and I wrote these suggestions could work as well. Don't pretend that I insisted on the exposed effect. At this point I really believe you did not even read the entire thread.

    Which is why I suggested a channel timer of 2 seconds for a Stypic Agent and 5 Seconds for a Syringe since if you think about it those would need to be properly applied.

    That solves the find a good loop spot/pallet and stop for 1-2 seconds and insta heal and instead makes their usage much more strategic.

  • NoShinyPonyNoShinyPony Member Posts: 3,447

    @powerbats said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    I was suggesting the exposed effect as a mean to prevent the use of insta-heals mid-chase. It doesn't have to be the exposed effect. If anything else works as well, I'm open to other suggestions. And other good suggestions have been made in this thread and I wrote these suggestions could work as well. Don't pretend that I insisted on the exposed effect. At this point I really believe you did not even read the entire thread.

    Which is why I suggested a channel timer of 2 seconds for a Stypic Agent and 5 Seconds for a Syringe since if you think about it those would need to be properly applied.

    That solves the find a good loop spot/pallet and stop for 1-2 seconds and insta heal and instead makes their usage much more strategic.

    Yup, that's one of the suggestions that would prevent insta-heals from being used in front of the killer/mid-chase. (Besides that, I would say 5 seconds for both, but that's beside the issue.) As I said, I don't insist on the exposed effect.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,071

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @powerbats said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    I was suggesting the exposed effect as a mean to prevent the use of insta-heals mid-chase. It doesn't have to be the exposed effect. If anything else works as well, I'm open to other suggestions. And other good suggestions have been made in this thread and I wrote these suggestions could work as well. Don't pretend that I insisted on the exposed effect. At this point I really believe you did not even read the entire thread.

    Which is why I suggested a channel timer of 2 seconds for a Stypic Agent and 5 Seconds for a Syringe since if you think about it those would need to be properly applied.

    That solves the find a good loop spot/pallet and stop for 1-2 seconds and insta heal and instead makes their usage much more strategic.

    Yup, that's one of the suggestions that would prevent insta-heals from being used in front of the killer/mid-chase. (Besides that, I would say 5 seconds for both, but that's beside the issue.) As I said, I don't insist on the exposed effect.

    I think 5 for both is a bit much since one is full on dying state removal and one is 1 health state, but there could be a broken type effect where you can't be healed by same items again for x seconds.

  • NuclearBurrito2NuclearBurrito2 Member Posts: 262
    Heal over time is equivalent to exposed in almost every way.

    Remember:

    Injured: down in 1
    Exposed: down in 1
    Injured but being healed: down in 1

    Until you are both healthy and with 0 exposed statuses you have not finished the heal.

    So no, temporary exposure doesn't screw over the user unless it is too long because they are still in the same situation as before only now with a timer till they get their second shot back.
Sign In or Register to comment.