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1 or more survivors winning from losing...

Hatch and keys literally reward losing. Survivors fail their objective to complete 5 generators and open exit gate but they know they will lose so they use a key and they all escape or 3 die and 1 gets a free escapes. Really? I feel cheated when I do so well and survivors just get a free ticket out of the game because they know they will lose. The hatch isn't needed in the game. "YoU jUsT WaNt aN eZ 4k" nothing is easy about playing killer. And getting a 4k at rank 1 almost never happens because of the hatch. The killer outmatches survivors just to get denied from some magical black hole in the ground. Is there anything in the game that is a base mechanic on the killer side that just rewards you with free kills from losing? No you have to be really good at the game meanwhile 1 or more survivors wins from losing not fair not balanced. Either remove the hatch completely or the aura of it is revealed and you can close it permanently. The survivor should never be in the power role especially like this. This is an assymetrical game. Slugging also doesnt work against good surviors and it is extremely boring and the other survivor can just hide until the other one bleedouts which is also extremly boring.

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Comments

  • NoShinyPonyNoShinyPony Member Posts: 1,472

    Keys need a rework. Hatch as well, but keys more urgently. Using a key to open the hatch is a free escape and totally unbalanced.

    Do you have any ideas to rework keys perhaps?

  • blue4zionblue4zion Member Posts: 519

    @NoShinyPony said:
    Keys need a rework. Hatch as well, but keys more urgently. Using a key to open the hatch is a free escape and totally unbalanced.

    Do you have any ideas to rework keys perhaps?

    Maybe it should take a little bit to actually open them, possibly include skillchecks or alert the killer when a survivor is unlocking it. This way, a survivor cant just jump into it mid chase and they'd need to wait for the killer to be a decent distance away.

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 1,737

    I believe the survivor's goal is actually to survive any way possible if we're going off of lore. I do agree the hatch isn't a good mechanic for end game, though. If everyone died but one, I don't believe they should be entitled to a hatch and that whole thing is rather boring. It basically becomes a game of who's willing to wait the longest and that shouldn't be a thing in my opinion. They could rework the end game to allow for more interesting plays for that scenario in the very least. As for keys, it's annoying when you get an early escape, but there are counters towards people having keys and it isn't just not allowing more than two gens to be done.

  • ThirdSealOPplzNerfThirdSealOPplzNerf Member Posts: 196

    @Aven_Fallen said:
    How do you know that the person who gets the hatch does not deserve to win?

    Because they didn't complete 5 generators and open an exit gate. I outskilled all the survivors and I should be killing them all but apparently no i
    I can't the have to be given a free escape.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 2,286

    I agree about the hatch. However I don't have an issue with keys.

  • ThirdSealOPplzNerfThirdSealOPplzNerf Member Posts: 196

    @Science_Guy said:
    And how did you "outskill" the survivor you didn't catch?

    By killing all of them. Except I can't because of the hatch.

  • Aven_FallenAven_Fallen Member Posts: 607

    @ThirdSealOPplzNerf said:

    @Science_Guy said:
    And how did you "outskill" the survivor you didn't catch?

    By killing all of them. Except I can't because of the hatch.

    You did not catch the Survivor. Otherwise he would not get the Hatch.

    And yes, sometimes a Survivor deserves the Hatch. Often the one getting the Hatch is not the one that did really well, but there are moments were simply one Survivor did more than the rest of the Team.

  • RaptorrotasRaptorrotas Member Posts: 653
    Yeah much time for a full chase when a surv is already on the hatch when his buddy kills themselves on the hook for innstant hatch escape.
  • DemonDaddyDemonDaddy Member Posts: 1,085
    edited February 11
    Would be nice if keys were for instant opening chests with higher rarity chance. The hatch itself as powerful as it is should be independent of any items and reflect the performance of the last survivors,  not the team's. I doubt the entity would give a handout to a locker dweller. 
  • NoShinyPonyNoShinyPony Member Posts: 1,472

    @blue4zion said:

    @NoShinyPony said:
    Keys need a rework. Hatch as well, but keys more urgently. Using a key to open the hatch is a free escape and totally unbalanced.

    Do you have any ideas to rework keys perhaps?

    Maybe it should take a little bit to actually open them, possibly include skillchecks or alert the killer when a survivor is unlocking it. This way, a survivor cant just jump into it mid chase and they'd need to wait for the killer to be a decent distance away.

    I don't think that change would be enough. It's not only about survivors escaping mid-chase.

    Imagine that only 2 survivors are still alive, 3 gens have been done. The survivors take a key and escape through the hatch. That's not fair to the killer at all. The killer can't do anything against it.

    The hatch should only be an option for the last survivor. If there are more survivors alive, they should have to repair all the gens.

    @fluffybunny said:
    but there are counters towards people having keys

    Please tell me the counter to survivors getting keys from chests. You know Franklin's isn't one.

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 1,737

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @blue4zion said:

    @NoShinyPony said:
    Keys need a rework. Hatch as well, but keys more urgently. Using a key to open the hatch is a free escape and totally unbalanced.

    Do you have any ideas to rework keys perhaps?

    Maybe it should take a little bit to actually open them, possibly include skillchecks or alert the killer when a survivor is unlocking it. This way, a survivor cant just jump into it mid chase and they'd need to wait for the killer to be a decent distance away.

    I don't think that change would be enough. It's not only about survivors escaping mid-chase.

    Imagine that only 2 survivors are still alive, 3 gens have been done. The survivors take a key and escape through the hatch. That's not fair to the killer at all. The killer can't do anything against it.

    The hatch should only be an option for the last survivor. If there are more survivors alive, they should have to repair all the gens.

    @fluffybunny said:
    but there are counters towards people having keys

    Please tell me the counter to survivors getting keys from chests. You know Franklin's isn't one.

    You should know how hard it is to find a key once it's hit out of your hands. It's a rare, expensive item meant to speed the game up, essentially like a mori.

  • NoShinyPonyNoShinyPony Member Posts: 1,472

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @blue4zion said:

    @NoShinyPony said:
    Keys need a rework. Hatch as well, but keys more urgently. Using a key to open the hatch is a free escape and totally unbalanced.

    Do you have any ideas to rework keys perhaps?

    Maybe it should take a little bit to actually open them, possibly include skillchecks or alert the killer when a survivor is unlocking it. This way, a survivor cant just jump into it mid chase and they'd need to wait for the killer to be a decent distance away.

    I don't think that change would be enough. It's not only about survivors escaping mid-chase.

    Imagine that only 2 survivors are still alive, 3 gens have been done. The survivors take a key and escape through the hatch. That's not fair to the killer at all. The killer can't do anything against it.

    The hatch should only be an option for the last survivor. If there are more survivors alive, they should have to repair all the gens.

    @fluffybunny said:
    but there are counters towards people having keys

    Please tell me the counter to survivors getting keys from chests. You know Franklin's isn't one.

    You should know how hard it is to find a key once it's hit out of your hands. It's a rare, expensive item meant to speed the game up, essentially like a mori.

    You are really trying to tell me that Franklin's is a counter against keys found in chests...

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 1,737

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @blue4zion said:

    @NoShinyPony said:
    Keys need a rework. Hatch as well, but keys more urgently. Using a key to open the hatch is a free escape and totally unbalanced.

    Do you have any ideas to rework keys perhaps?

    Maybe it should take a little bit to actually open them, possibly include skillchecks or alert the killer when a survivor is unlocking it. This way, a survivor cant just jump into it mid chase and they'd need to wait for the killer to be a decent distance away.

    I don't think that change would be enough. It's not only about survivors escaping mid-chase.

    Imagine that only 2 survivors are still alive, 3 gens have been done. The survivors take a key and escape through the hatch. That's not fair to the killer at all. The killer can't do anything against it.

    The hatch should only be an option for the last survivor. If there are more survivors alive, they should have to repair all the gens.

    @fluffybunny said:
    but there are counters towards people having keys

    Please tell me the counter to survivors getting keys from chests. You know Franklin's isn't one.

    You should know how hard it is to find a key once it's hit out of your hands. It's a rare, expensive item meant to speed the game up, essentially like a mori.

    You are really trying to tell me that Franklin's is a counter against keys found in chests...

    Have you ever had a key smacked out of your hand before as survivor? If you're paranoid over something that also requires finding a hatch that's making no noise and may or may not be hidden, just bring franky's. It's more of a counter than some of the stuff that killers have and if you smack the key person enough, the item will be depleted.

  • ThirdSealOPplzNerfThirdSealOPplzNerf Member Posts: 196

    @Vietfox said:
    @ThirdSealOPplzNerf said:

    @Aven_Fallen said:

    How do you know that the person who gets the hatch does not deserve to win?

    Because they didn't complete 5 generators and open an exit gate. I outskilled all the survivors and I should be killing them all but apparently no i

    I can't the have to be given a free escape.

    Keys let survivors escape before all 5 gens are done.
    Moris kill survivors who got hooked only once.

    If you want keys to be gone then moris should be gone too.

    @Vietfox said:
    @ThirdSealOPplzNerf said:

    @Aven_Fallen said:

    How do you know that the person who gets the hatch does not deserve to win?

    Because they didn't complete 5 generators and open an exit gate. I outskilled all the survivors and I should be killing them all but apparently no i

    I can't the have to be given a free escape.

    Keys let survivors escape before all 5 gens are done.
    Moris kill survivors who got hooked only once.

    If you want keys to be gone then moris should be gone too.

    Moris actually need you to chase the survivor down them hook them then find them again chase them and down them then you can use the mori unlike the key where you press 1 button and that's it. Moris are fine.

  • VietfoxVietfox Member Posts: 3,826
    edited February 12

    @Vietfox said:
    @ThirdSealOPplzNerf said:

    @Aven_Fallen said:

    How do you know that the person who gets the hatch does not deserve to win?

    Because they didn't complete 5 generators and open an exit gate. I outskilled all the survivors and I should be killing them all but apparently no i

    I can't the have to be given a free escape.

    Keys let survivors escape before all 5 gens are done.
    Moris kill survivors who got hooked only once.

    If you want keys to be gone then moris should be gone too.

    @Vietfox said:
    @ThirdSealOPplzNerf said:

    @Aven_Fallen said:

    How do you know that the person who gets the hatch does not deserve to win?

    Because they didn't complete 5 generators and open an exit gate. I outskilled all the survivors and I should be killing them all but apparently no i

    I can't the have to be given a free escape.

    Keys let survivors escape before all 5 gens are done.
    Moris kill survivors who got hooked only once.

    If you want keys to be gone then moris should be gone too.

    Moris actually need you to chase the survivor down them hook them then find them again chase them and down them then you can use the mori unlike the key where you press 1 button and that's it. Moris are fine.

    And keys need you to do more gens than the number of survivors alive.
    Keys are fine.
  • NoShinyPonyNoShinyPony Member Posts: 1,472

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @blue4zion said:

    @NoShinyPony said:
    Keys need a rework. Hatch as well, but keys more urgently. Using a key to open the hatch is a free escape and totally unbalanced.

    Do you have any ideas to rework keys perhaps?

    Maybe it should take a little bit to actually open them, possibly include skillchecks or alert the killer when a survivor is unlocking it. This way, a survivor cant just jump into it mid chase and they'd need to wait for the killer to be a decent distance away.

    I don't think that change would be enough. It's not only about survivors escaping mid-chase.

    Imagine that only 2 survivors are still alive, 3 gens have been done. The survivors take a key and escape through the hatch. That's not fair to the killer at all. The killer can't do anything against it.

    The hatch should only be an option for the last survivor. If there are more survivors alive, they should have to repair all the gens.

    @fluffybunny said:
    but there are counters towards people having keys

    Please tell me the counter to survivors getting keys from chests. You know Franklin's isn't one.

    You should know how hard it is to find a key once it's hit out of your hands. It's a rare, expensive item meant to speed the game up, essentially like a mori.

    You are really trying to tell me that Franklin's is a counter against keys found in chests...

    Have you ever had a key smacked out of your hand before as survivor? If you're paranoid over something that also requires finding a hatch that's making no noise and may or may not be hidden, just bring franky's. It's more of a counter than some of the stuff that killers have and if you smack the key person enough, the item will be depleted.

    You tell me that you find it hard to find a closed hatch.
    You also tell me that it's hard for you to find an item again after you've dropped it due to Franklin's.

    Honestly, these things are some of the easiest elements in the game. Really. You need to a reach a point where you don't consider these things hard anymore first. Then, you can have reasonable discussions about balance issues.

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 1,737

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @blue4zion said:

    @NoShinyPony said:
    Keys need a rework. Hatch as well, but keys more urgently. Using a key to open the hatch is a free escape and totally unbalanced.

    Do you have any ideas to rework keys perhaps?

    Maybe it should take a little bit to actually open them, possibly include skillchecks or alert the killer when a survivor is unlocking it. This way, a survivor cant just jump into it mid chase and they'd need to wait for the killer to be a decent distance away.

    I don't think that change would be enough. It's not only about survivors escaping mid-chase.

    Imagine that only 2 survivors are still alive, 3 gens have been done. The survivors take a key and escape through the hatch. That's not fair to the killer at all. The killer can't do anything against it.

    The hatch should only be an option for the last survivor. If there are more survivors alive, they should have to repair all the gens.

    @fluffybunny said:
    but there are counters towards people having keys

    Please tell me the counter to survivors getting keys from chests. You know Franklin's isn't one.

    You should know how hard it is to find a key once it's hit out of your hands. It's a rare, expensive item meant to speed the game up, essentially like a mori.

    You are really trying to tell me that Franklin's is a counter against keys found in chests...

    Have you ever had a key smacked out of your hand before as survivor? If you're paranoid over something that also requires finding a hatch that's making no noise and may or may not be hidden, just bring franky's. It's more of a counter than some of the stuff that killers have and if you smack the key person enough, the item will be depleted.

    You tell me that you find it hard to find a closed hatch.
    You also tell me that it's hard for you to find an item again after you've dropped it due to Franklin's.

    Honestly, these things are some of the easiest elements in the game. Really. You need to a reach a point where you don't consider these things hard anymore first. Then, you can have reasonable discussions about balance issues.

    I take it you're hatch god and keys have a beacon of light when you play survivor. I hate to break it to you, but for everyone else keys are small little objects that often blends with environments. If it gets hit out of your hand, the item's use is depleted and you have to waste time finding it again, possibly leaving you out in the open and not doing gens. If you don't have the perk, the DLC is nice to get as it has BBQ, too. Well worth the money.

    As for hatch, it doesn't always spawn in front of you. I've had so many matches where I don't see the hatch at all while playing and if I were to bring in a key, I'd be wasting time searching for something that can be a pain to find, even while it makes noise. The hatch spawns and weird places sometimes and both sides should be aware of this.

    As I said in the initial posts, the key is a rare/ultra rare items. Those are supposed to make the game shorter as they're expensive and rare. It's the same with killer's stuff. A huntress with a one-hit down hatchet will likely have shorter games unless she is facing against really good survivors who can dodge all her throws. That's likely not to be the case. Moris also speed the game up really quick and gives killers a quick end. Survivors still have to get gens done to use the key and they have to find the hatch to be able to use it. I don't think it's nearly as big of a deal as people are making it out to be.

  • NoShinyPonyNoShinyPony Member Posts: 1,472

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @blue4zion said:

    @NoShinyPony said:
    Keys need a rework. Hatch as well, but keys more urgently. Using a key to open the hatch is a free escape and totally unbalanced.

    Do you have any ideas to rework keys perhaps?

    Maybe it should take a little bit to actually open them, possibly include skillchecks or alert the killer when a survivor is unlocking it. This way, a survivor cant just jump into it mid chase and they'd need to wait for the killer to be a decent distance away.

    I don't think that change would be enough. It's not only about survivors escaping mid-chase.

    Imagine that only 2 survivors are still alive, 3 gens have been done. The survivors take a key and escape through the hatch. That's not fair to the killer at all. The killer can't do anything against it.

    The hatch should only be an option for the last survivor. If there are more survivors alive, they should have to repair all the gens.

    @fluffybunny said:
    but there are counters towards people having keys

    Please tell me the counter to survivors getting keys from chests. You know Franklin's isn't one.

    You should know how hard it is to find a key once it's hit out of your hands. It's a rare, expensive item meant to speed the game up, essentially like a mori.

    You are really trying to tell me that Franklin's is a counter against keys found in chests...

    Have you ever had a key smacked out of your hand before as survivor? If you're paranoid over something that also requires finding a hatch that's making no noise and may or may not be hidden, just bring franky's. It's more of a counter than some of the stuff that killers have and if you smack the key person enough, the item will be depleted.

    You tell me that you find it hard to find a closed hatch.
    You also tell me that it's hard for you to find an item again after you've dropped it due to Franklin's.

    Honestly, these things are some of the easiest elements in the game. Really. You need to a reach a point where you don't consider these things hard anymore first. Then, you can have reasonable discussions about balance issues.

    I take it you're hatch god and keys have a beacon of light when you play survivor. I hate to break it to you, but for everyone else keys are small little objects that often blends with environments.

    If you get hit and lose the item due to Franklin's, you know where on the map that happened. It did not happen to someone else. You were right there. You were a participant some seconds or minutes ago. You just go back to the place and pick your item up. You have to remember where you lost your item only for a couple of minutes at max!

    If you insist that you are telling the truth and that this is indeed a challenge for you, then that's how it is. But for the big majority of players it isn't.

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 1,737

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @NoShinyPony said:

    @blue4zion said:

    @NoShinyPony said:
    Keys need a rework. Hatch as well, but keys more urgently. Using a key to open the hatch is a free escape and totally unbalanced.

    Do you have any ideas to rework keys perhaps?

    Maybe it should take a little bit to actually open them, possibly include skillchecks or alert the killer when a survivor is unlocking it. This way, a survivor cant just jump into it mid chase and they'd need to wait for the killer to be a decent distance away.

    I don't think that change would be enough. It's not only about survivors escaping mid-chase.

    Imagine that only 2 survivors are still alive, 3 gens have been done. The survivors take a key and escape through the hatch. That's not fair to the killer at all. The killer can't do anything against it.

    The hatch should only be an option for the last survivor. If there are more survivors alive, they should have to repair all the gens.

    @fluffybunny said:
    but there are counters towards people having keys

    Please tell me the counter to survivors getting keys from chests. You know Franklin's isn't one.

    You should know how hard it is to find a key once it's hit out of your hands. It's a rare, expensive item meant to speed the game up, essentially like a mori.

    You are really trying to tell me that Franklin's is a counter against keys found in chests...

    Have you ever had a key smacked out of your hand before as survivor? If you're paranoid over something that also requires finding a hatch that's making no noise and may or may not be hidden, just bring franky's. It's more of a counter than some of the stuff that killers have and if you smack the key person enough, the item will be depleted.

    You tell me that you find it hard to find a closed hatch.
    You also tell me that it's hard for you to find an item again after you've dropped it due to Franklin's.

    Honestly, these things are some of the easiest elements in the game. Really. You need to a reach a point where you don't consider these things hard anymore first. Then, you can have reasonable discussions about balance issues.

    I take it you're hatch god and keys have a beacon of light when you play survivor. I hate to break it to you, but for everyone else keys are small little objects that often blends with environments.

    If you get hit and lose the item due to Franklin's, you know where on the map that happened. It did not happen to someone else. You were right there. You were a participant some seconds or minutes ago. You just go back to the place and pick your item up. You have to remember where you lost your item only for a couple of minutes at max!

    If you insist that you are telling the truth and that this is indeed a challenge for you, then that's how it is. But for the big majority of players it isn't.

    If you don't foresee Franky's, you may not be paying attention to the exact stop you were hit. Given if they hit you at a window spot, that lessens where you have to look, but if it's out in the open, you may not know exactly where it is. Not everyone has photographic memory and I'm not the only one who has dropped a key and have been unable to find it 'cause it's small and hard to see. A lot of the areas on the maps look the same. You may not remember which one it was dropped at or where exactly it is. And if the killer sees you, that's basically a free hit 'cause you're out positioned.

    And that's why I see so many struggle with it?

  • EgonicEgonic Member Posts: 28

    I'm very glad the devs so far don't agree with you.
    Personally my enjoyment comes from good games, which most of the time doesn't end up with me surviving or me killing everyone in the game.

    Your suggestion is terrible and would definitely decrease my enjoyment of the game, as a survivor it would be impossible to escape, so I would just run around the killer until I die, and as a killer be forced to afk until a single immersed survivor spends a long time doing the remaining objectives.

    That would be the worst part, you place 1 survivor in a position where they know they are dead, and since there is really no incentive to do gens at that point, you will likely end up with more trolling and forcing me to quit the game as killer, just so you can feel good about a 4 kill.
    That you are also resorting to slugging to achieve this, you are the type of player I am glad I don't play with often.

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 1,124
    edited February 12
    Here's a dumb idea that I put little to no thought into:

    Keys only open the Hatch until someone jumps in.  After that, the Hatch closes (unless there's only one person left).  Purple Key lets anyone jump in (risking getting the Hatch stolen by another Survivor); Red Key only lets whoever opened the Hatch to jump in.

    Extra Jerk mode: Purple key permanently seals the Hatch after someone jumps in.  No key will open it, and not even the last Survivor has a chance at it.  Whoever uses it risks being a complete jerk. :P

    Other dumb idea: Make the green key open Hatch, but the person who opened it can't jump in, plus the Hatch perma-closes once someone jumps in. :P
  • Kind_LemonKind_Lemon Member Posts: 452

    Well, this post could have been about how the hatch should be an interaction to open, perhaps with a loud squealing noise like that of a rusty safe. Or maybe this post could have been about how exit gate opening and key-hatch interacting should be similar in length. Or maybe the post could have detailed a realistic way of adding secondary objectives to get the hatch to spawn rather than share the same objective the exit gates require. None of this was discussed. I feel like this was a missed opportunity to talk about more than just frustration.

  • ThirdSealOPplzNerfThirdSealOPplzNerf Member Posts: 196
    edited February 13

    @Kind_Lemon said:
    Well, this post could have been about how the hatch should be an interaction to open, perhaps with a loud squealing noise like that of a rusty safe. Or maybe this post could have been about how exit gate opening and key-hatch interacting should be similar in length. Or maybe the post could have detailed a realistic way of adding secondary objectives to get the hatch to spawn rather than share the same objective the exit gates require. None of this was discussed. I feel like this was a missed opportunity to talk about more than just frustration.

    Making the hatch the new exit gate would be lame and boring. And another opening timer wouldn't do anything except make it more boring. Remove the hatch best suggestion.

  • SailedSavageSailedSavage Member Posts: 89
    Let's have them take out hatch for a week. Watch how many people beg for it back when survivors hide around the map for 30 minutes and you DC out if boredom or anger. Hatch ends the game one way or another. You 4k hungry killers are part of what is wrong with this game and well as camping survivors who don't work on gens just waiting for hatch to spawn. If I destroy a team I give the last guy hatch out of good sport and remind them ITS JUST.A.GAME. Play and move on
  • ThirdSealOPplzNerfThirdSealOPplzNerf Member Posts: 196

    @SailedSavage said:
    Let's have them take out hatch for a week. Watch how many people beg for it back when survivors hide around the map for 30 minutes and you DC out if boredom or anger. Hatch ends the game one way or another. You 4k hungry killers are part of what is wrong with this game and well as camping survivors who don't work on gens just waiting for hatch to spawn. If I destroy a team I give the last guy hatch out of good sport and remind them ITS JUST.A.GAME. Play and move on

    People like you who defend a broken mechanic like the hatch is what's wrong with the game. the hatch gets removed and the aura of the last survivor is revealed.

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