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Switched from killer main to play survivor for a while on Console and wow is it bad.

As a killer main I play fair, but at least 9/10 games I play as survivor, the killers tunnel and camp. Just wondering if other console players have the same complaints or am I just unlucky lol

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  • blue4zionblue4zion Member Posts: 883

    Even though people say "You're a killer, don't be nice and just kill" I like to play fair, I won't go for a person just unhooked especially if it's when I'm right there. Also if I notice a survivor get screwed by other survivors or by bugs such as broken windows, I'll wait till they get a small distance away then continue the chase. I wan't to make sure everyone has a good time, even if I lose a kill or so. I think points matter more than kills when it comes to "winning". But when I play survivor, I rarely see killers like this. Maybe had one in a few months.
    Lowkey inspired by HybridPanda

  • Michael_MyersMichael_Myers Member Posts: 104

    I've had some pretty bad teammates as well. Also just had 5 games in a row where I got tunneled into the ground. We might be the only 2 killers on console that don't do that lol. Heading into game 6 with my fingers crossed xD

  • blue4zionblue4zion Member Posts: 883

    @Michael_Myers said:
    I've had some pretty bad teammates as well. Also just had 5 games in a row where I got tunneled into the ground. We might be the only 2 killers on console that don't do that lol. Heading into game 6 with my fingers crossed xD

    I want to play some survivor right now but after purchasing some auric cells the game said "ha you thought" and now I get a save error every time I try and play :')

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 5,023
    edited February 12

    Get to rank 1. Killers there are surprisingly way more chill. Most are really good, so don't expect an easy game, but they play fair for the most part. However most will camp/tunnel you if necessary and will kill you if you mess up.

    If you get me as killer I try to play as fair as I can and I'll give freebies if I feel like people deserve it. Just don't bitch at me if I kill you, I send GG's to almost everyone kill or escape. If you throw salt in my face after that you get put on the hit list, and you won't like me as your killer if you are on my hit list. Trust.

  • pemberleypemberley Member Posts: 990
    Wraiths camp, Pigs tunnel and will slug in endgame, Nurses are either trying desperately to do a challenge or they’re good and you’re gonna die, Doctors are competitive and will win through force or attrition, Michaels rely on Exposed, Huntresses will either try to mother you (friendly) or smother you, Clowns will hit you with his knife and bottles on hook, Legions and Spirits are most likely to be toxic. 

    I can’t think of other ps4 killer stereotypes at the moment. I play at rank 8-10 survivor and I have noticed face camping is only done by the toxic or frustrated at being taken on a survivor merry go round. At 15-20 it’s usually because they’re new.
  • TheHoodedOneTheHoodedOne Member Posts: 5,446

    @Michael_Myers said:
    As a killer main I play fair, but at least 9/10 games I play as survivor, the killers tunnel and camp. Just wondering if other console players have the same complaints or am I just unlucky lol

    You are unlucky, depends on what rank you are dealing with these people at, due to me being rank 2 I dont deal with these as much, but, I still do, people are who they are, they tunnel cause they want a kill, camp when they really want to lose with 1 kill

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 2,161

    @Michael_Myers said:
    As a killer main I play fair, but at least 9/10 games I play as survivor, the killers tunnel and camp. Just wondering if other console players have the same complaints or am I just unlucky lol

    Winning in their eyes is killing everyone and a lot of people play to win. Tunneling and camping unfortunately works. Sometimes killers finds themselves in situations where they have no choice and some just find it easiest to employ such tactics. You get a lot of camping and tunneling on PC, too.

  • Rebel_RavenRebel_Raven Member Posts: 1,654
    edited February 12
    They camp because 9 times out of 10, it works.

    Most of my fellow survivors are absolutely suicidal. They might get a good unhook here, and there. 
    I'd say they were farming, but they get downed eventually. 

    And I'm there, on a gen, trying desperately to power the hatch. The only one on a gen. 

    I like the chase, and hunt so I don't usually camp either. I do it for me since survivors don't know you're the killer until post game. Maybe if you have certain cosmetics often enough, they might guess, but they won't load in, and say "wow, this player! Yo, chill with the toxic stuff. This killer isn't 4k crazy, and we can get a lot of points playing normally! This huntress even let me go during the blight event!"
    That said, you play how you want to.
  • Michael_MyersMichael_Myers Member Posts: 104

    I play for points, so I guess that's the difference. I get camping and tunneling is dictated by the situation, but the games I've played were not like that. It starts as soon as they find the first survivor. Saving grace is I came up against a guy who did this to me while I played killer... he called me a camping tunneling noob after I got revenge. Oh the irony haha

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 5,023

    @pemberley said:
    Wraiths camp, Pigs tunnel and will slug in endgame, Nurses are either trying desperately to do a challenge or they’re good and you’re gonna die, Doctors are competitive and will win through force or attrition, Michaels rely on Exposed, Huntresses will either try to mother you (friendly) or smother you, Clowns will hit you with his knife and bottles on hook, Legions and Spirits are most likely to be toxic. 

    Honestly a lot of killers camp and tunnel and are toxic. Doesn't matter the killer.

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 2,161

    @thesuicidefox said:

    @pemberley said:
    Wraiths camp, Pigs tunnel and will slug in endgame, Nurses are either trying desperately to do a challenge or they’re good and you’re gonna die, Doctors are competitive and will win through force or attrition, Michaels rely on Exposed, Huntresses will either try to mother you (friendly) or smother you, Clowns will hit you with his knife and bottles on hook, Legions and Spirits are most likely to be toxic. 

    Honestly a lot of killers camp and tunnel and are toxic. Doesn't matter the killer.

    I suppose what they're saying is a lot of killers have stereotypes connected to them in the same way survivors do, too.

  • daLensterdaLenster Member Posts: 40
    Eveline said:
    Yep. And worst of all, selfish teammates.
    Yup!  I just vented about this very thing here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/46390/worthless-survivors-grow-a-pair-will-ya#latest
  • daLensterdaLenster Member Posts: 40
    blue4zion said:

    Even though people say "You're a killer, don't be nice and just kill" I like to play fair, I won't go for a person just unhooked especially if it's when I'm right there. Also if I notice a survivor get screwed by other survivors or by bugs such as broken windows, I'll wait till they get a small distance away then continue the chase. I wan't to make sure everyone has a good time, even if I lose a kill or so. I think points matter more than kills when it comes to "winning". But when I play survivor, I rarely see killers like this. Maybe had one in a few months.
    Lowkey inspired by HybridPanda

    When I play Pig, I’ll never hook them if I’ve already placed their rever bear trap.  Them searching for the Saw key slows down their progress enough.
  • Samurai_DracoSamurai_Draco Member Posts: 13

    @pemberley said:
    Wraiths camp, Pigs tunnel and will slug in endgame, Nurses are either trying desperately to do a challenge or they’re good and you’re gonna die, Doctors are competitive and will win through force or attrition, Michaels rely on Exposed, Huntresses will either try to mother you (friendly) or smother you, Clowns will hit you with his knife and bottles on hook, Legions and Spirits are most likely to be toxic. 

    I can’t think of other ps4 killer stereotypes at the moment. I play at rank 8-10 survivor and I have noticed face camping is only done by the toxic or frustrated at being taken on a survivor merry go round. At 15-20 it’s usually because they’re new.

    From someone like myself who plays DBD on Xbox, I can tell you that is almost accurate on Xbox from what you described. However, a few major differences is the amount of people who use Freddy, consistently Tunnel, camp and just straight up transition you into the dream world instantly as soon as you're unhooked and leave you in the dying state. Another being that the huge amount of people using Micheal and proximity camping hard and straight up using NOED, even though they don't need to because of his ability. Last one being is pigs using their crouch on the staircase to the basement and guarding the hooked survivor(s) down there. That is what I have been experiencing thus far. Seriously, a good amount of the killers wouldn't even have to rely on NOED as a perk at all because of either their equipment or abilities, but yet a majority of people use it anyway.

  • Samurai_DracoSamurai_Draco Member Posts: 13

    @fluffybunny said:

    @Michael_Myers said:
    As a killer main I play fair, but at least 9/10 games I play as survivor, the killers tunnel and camp. Just wondering if other console players have the same complaints or am I just unlucky lol

    Winning in their eyes is killing everyone and a lot of people play to win. Tunneling and camping unfortunately works. Sometimes killers finds themselves in situations where they have no choice and some just find it easiest to employ such tactics. You get a lot of camping and tunneling on PC, too.

    I do agree with your statement. Honestly I just wish killers would actually add thrill to the matches instead of just making it bland with tunneling and camping, because in the end it gets boring going through it over and over again. When I play killer, I make sure to add thrilling chases and bring a sense of fairness to the match so survivors are not only kept on their toes, but also to enjoy themselves while playing the game the way it should be played.

    I will say one thing though, and that being the situations where the killers have no choice; is entirely their choice. I have been in situations like that, and I did not chose to use such tactics because that would take away from the excitement within those final moments, because the game challenges the killer, having them learn to adapt to the situation and they can be handled fairly. Killers just chose the latter and take the easy way.

  • TeaLeafTeaLeaf Member Posts: 205

    My question is, who defines what is "fair" here. I see that term is used a lot in the thread and I wonder if it really matches up. For me tunneling and camping are fair game play (minus face camping unless the gates are powered). To be clear a chainsaw revving in your face on your first hook until your dead is toxic and poor game play and I doubt any one is gonna defend that behavior, however utilizing fall backs to bait survivors going for unhooks is legit in my eyes (and should make survivors weary of bum rushing for the save). Eliminating a weak survivor after a few gens are done are also smart play.

    I see a lot of arbitrary rules for sub-optimal killer game play consistently held up as if its expected, though the survivors tend to have the greatest advantage and require mistakes to be made for killers to really shine. This is backwards given the killer is suppose to be the power role, and the survivors are suppose to adapt to the killer yet it is often the other way it seems with time never on the killers side. I want to be clear I understand that there are toxic game play styles, but a lot of times coming back to a hook once make your choose activates I get called a camper, if I happens to find a blood trail or hear the groans of a freshly unhooked survivor I get called a tunneler. Seem what is fair is at least from most survivors I play with, is only when I down each survior 1s, then each 2, then only am I permitted the privilege of killing some one.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 5,023

    @TeaLeaf said:
    My question is, who defines what is "fair" here. I see that term is used a lot in the thread and I wonder if it really matches up. For me tunneling and camping are fair game play (minus face camping unless the gates are powered). To be clear a chainsaw revving in your face on your first hook until your dead is toxic and poor game play and I doubt any one is gonna defend that behavior, however utilizing fall backs to bait survivors going for unhooks is legit in my eyes (and should make survivors weary of bum rushing for the save). Eliminating a weak survivor after a few gens are done are also smart play.

    I see a lot of arbitrary rules for sub-optimal killer game play consistently held up as if its expected, though the survivors tend to have the greatest advantage and require mistakes to be made for killers to really shine. This is backwards given the killer is suppose to be the power role, and the survivors are suppose to adapt to the killer yet it is often the other way it seems with time never on the killers side. I want to be clear I understand that there are toxic game play styles, but a lot of times coming back to a hook once make your choose activates I get called a camper, if I happens to find a blood trail or hear the groans of a freshly unhooked survivor I get called a tunneler. Seem what is fair is at least from most survivors I play with, is only when I down each survior 1s, then each 2, then only am I permitted the privilege of killing some one.

    Playing fair is giving survivors equal opportunities to survive. That means if you get a hook and someone saves you go for the rescuer instead of the rescued. It's unfair to the rescued that you go after them again because they are in a spot where they have very little options to defend themselves. It's one thing to do this when you are pressured to do it because the game is going fast, it's another thing to do it when you are way ahead and don't really need to do it. It just screams "I am a desperate for kills".

    And before you saying anything, I'm a rank 1 killer that generally plays without NOED or Ruin (the only killer I use NOED is Trapper which I don't use Ruin for him, and I use Ruin on Hag and Huntress because it's her perk and she needs it respectively), moris, or OP add-ons that gives freebies all the time and even gives free hatch escapes, but I still body most survivor groups and get all iridescent emblems. Why? Because I play fair and challenge myself to get better, so now I'm to a point where I'm actually a REALLY good killer. If I were to play a game with Ruin AND NOED AND OP add-ons AND a mori it's literally easy mode, even against top tier survivor SWF groups. How people have fun in games like this where it feel like a baby's toy is beyond me.

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 2,161

    @TeaLeaf said:
    My question is, who defines what is "fair" here. I see that term is used a lot in the thread and I wonder if it really matches up. For me tunneling and camping are fair game play (minus face camping unless the gates are powered). To be clear a chainsaw revving in your face on your first hook until your dead is toxic and poor game play and I doubt any one is gonna defend that behavior, however utilizing fall backs to bait survivors going for unhooks is legit in my eyes (and should make survivors weary of bum rushing for the save). Eliminating a weak survivor after a few gens are done are also smart play.

    I see a lot of arbitrary rules for sub-optimal killer game play consistently held up as if its expected, though the survivors tend to have the greatest advantage and require mistakes to be made for killers to really shine. This is backwards given the killer is suppose to be the power role, and the survivors are suppose to adapt to the killer yet it is often the other way it seems with time never on the killers side. I want to be clear I understand that there are toxic game play styles, but a lot of times coming back to a hook once make your choose activates I get called a camper, if I happens to find a blood trail or hear the groans of a freshly unhooked survivor I get called a tunneler. Seem what is fair is at least from most survivors I play with, is only when I down each survior 1s, then each 2, then only am I permitted the privilege of killing some one.

    We could use the argument that's coming from a place of empathy (it feels bad for the other side) or we could use the argument that waiting around for survivors to make mistakes is somewhat of a weak play style and often creates weak killers who don't know how to properly do loops or even how to track. Both are generally applicable when people rely on methods such as camping and tunneling down the weakest member (often the person off the hook).

    The empathy argument goes for both sides. You play in a way (as killer) the other side won't find "unfair" (not giving them a chance) like you would play in a way the other side wouldn't find unfair as a survivor, too. I would like things to be "fair" and fun for both sides. It's why I don't run DS.

  • TeaLeafTeaLeaf Member Posts: 205

    @fluffybunny said:

    @TeaLeaf said:
    My question is, who defines what is "fair" here. I see that term is used a lot in the thread and I wonder if it really matches up. For me tunneling and camping are fair game play (minus face camping unless the gates are powered). To be clear a chainsaw revving in your face on your first hook until your dead is toxic and poor game play and I doubt any one is gonna defend that behavior, however utilizing fall backs to bait survivors going for unhooks is legit in my eyes (and should make survivors weary of bum rushing for the save). Eliminating a weak survivor after a few gens are done are also smart play.

    I see a lot of arbitrary rules for sub-optimal killer game play consistently held up as if its expected, though the survivors tend to have the greatest advantage and require mistakes to be made for killers to really shine. This is backwards given the killer is suppose to be the power role, and the survivors are suppose to adapt to the killer yet it is often the other way it seems with time never on the killers side. I want to be clear I understand that there are toxic game play styles, but a lot of times coming back to a hook once make your choose activates I get called a camper, if I happens to find a blood trail or hear the groans of a freshly unhooked survivor I get called a tunneler. Seem what is fair is at least from most survivors I play with, is only when I down each survior 1s, then each 2, then only am I permitted the privilege of killing some one.

    We could use the argument that's coming from a place of empathy (it feels bad for the other side) or we could use the argument that waiting around for survivors to make mistakes is somewhat of a weak play style and often creates weak killers who don't know how to properly do loops or even how to track. Both are generally applicable when people rely on methods such as camping and tunneling down the weakest member (often the person off the hook).

    The empathy argument goes for both sides. You play in a way (as killer) the other side won't find "unfair" (not giving them a chance) like you would play in a way the other side wouldn't find unfair as a survivor, too. I would like things to be "fair" and fun for both sides. It's why I don't run DS.

    The argument dosn't really help much, as a survivor I would still find the methods I mentioned fair when used upon me personally. Though I still harken back to DBD being a horror themed game which it is honestly not. Its more akin to tag simulator. Like wise others .. many others... finds DS fair. The term "fair" again seems to have too much lee way in its defining. Saying "I play fair" dosn't really mean much, given their might be in this game 20 interpretations of what fair is.

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 2,161

    @TeaLeaf said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @TeaLeaf said:
    My question is, who defines what is "fair" here. I see that term is used a lot in the thread and I wonder if it really matches up. For me tunneling and camping are fair game play (minus face camping unless the gates are powered). To be clear a chainsaw revving in your face on your first hook until your dead is toxic and poor game play and I doubt any one is gonna defend that behavior, however utilizing fall backs to bait survivors going for unhooks is legit in my eyes (and should make survivors weary of bum rushing for the save). Eliminating a weak survivor after a few gens are done are also smart play.

    I see a lot of arbitrary rules for sub-optimal killer game play consistently held up as if its expected, though the survivors tend to have the greatest advantage and require mistakes to be made for killers to really shine. This is backwards given the killer is suppose to be the power role, and the survivors are suppose to adapt to the killer yet it is often the other way it seems with time never on the killers side. I want to be clear I understand that there are toxic game play styles, but a lot of times coming back to a hook once make your choose activates I get called a camper, if I happens to find a blood trail or hear the groans of a freshly unhooked survivor I get called a tunneler. Seem what is fair is at least from most survivors I play with, is only when I down each survior 1s, then each 2, then only am I permitted the privilege of killing some one.

    We could use the argument that's coming from a place of empathy (it feels bad for the other side) or we could use the argument that waiting around for survivors to make mistakes is somewhat of a weak play style and often creates weak killers who don't know how to properly do loops or even how to track. Both are generally applicable when people rely on methods such as camping and tunneling down the weakest member (often the person off the hook).

    The empathy argument goes for both sides. You play in a way (as killer) the other side won't find "unfair" (not giving them a chance) like you would play in a way the other side wouldn't find unfair as a survivor, too. I would like things to be "fair" and fun for both sides. It's why I don't run DS.

    The argument dosn't really help much, as a survivor I would still find the methods I mentioned fair when used upon me personally. Though I still harken back to DBD being a horror themed game which it is honestly not. Its more akin to tag simulator. Like wise others .. many others... finds DS fair. The term "fair" again seems to have too much lee way in its defining. Saying "I play fair" dosn't really mean much, given their might be in this game 20 interpretations of what fair is.

    I know everyone's different on what they find fair or not. I was just saying I think that's what people's talking about when they're saying to "play fair" and they're apply what the general group finds fair or unfair for that particular thing. I think the biggest issue is that it's often keeping one or two people away from playing the game as normal and doing objectives. And honestly, I like the biggest issue is that survivors feed into it. When you're solo and you see people swarming the hook, it's just ugh. I usually approach it from skill. You can definitely tell who's going to camp and who isn't just by how well they play in a lot of cases. People who are good at tracking and counter looping and those who know how to properly apply pressure don't need to rely on things like that.

    That's true. It's more like a tag simulator, but some stuff can be scary or spooky.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 5,023
    edited February 14

    @fluffybunny said:
    We could use the argument that's coming from a place of empathy (it feels bad for the other side) or we could use the argument that waiting around for survivors to make mistakes is somewhat of a weak play style and often creates weak killers who don't know how to properly do loops or even how to track. Both are generally applicable when people rely on methods such as camping and tunneling down the weakest member (often the person off the hook).

    Exactly. While it's not necessarily against the rules to camp or tunnel, it just goes to show how bad of a killer you are when you always take the path of least resistance. You don't get better by doing the easy stuff and winning all the time. You get better by doing the hard stuff and taking the L once in a while.

    Ironically, its those killers that are the first to complain about how unfair or unfun killer is when the TRUTH is that they aren't as good as they think they are and ran into someone with more skill than them which they can never accept as being the case. It's always the games fault. Every game I've ever lost I can point to specific mistakes I made and say "this is why I lost". I don't blame the game or the players, I accept that I made mistakes (or sometimes that the other player made a really good move) and learn from it.

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 2,161

    @thesuicidefox said:

    @fluffybunny said:
    We could use the argument that's coming from a place of empathy (it feels bad for the other side) or we could use the argument that waiting around for survivors to make mistakes is somewhat of a weak play style and often creates weak killers who don't know how to properly do loops or even how to track. Both are generally applicable when people rely on methods such as camping and tunneling down the weakest member (often the person off the hook).

    Exactly. While it's not necessarily against the rules to camp or tunnel, it just goes to show how bad of a killer you are when you always take the path of least resistance. You don't get better by doing the easy stuff and winning all the time. You get better by doing the hard stuff and taking the L once in a while.

    Ironically, its those killers that are the first to complain about how unfair or unfun killer is when the TRUTH is that they aren't as good as they think they are and ran into someone with more skill than them which they can never accept as being the case. It's always the games fault. Every game I've ever lost I can point to specific mistakes I made and say "this is why I lost". I don't blame the game or the players, I accept that I made mistakes (or sometimes that the other player made a really good move) and learn from it.

    I see that, too. Before acknowledging that what had occurred was due to how they played, they'll blame everything else. I've also seen someone complain about how weak a killer was, and then proceed to get a 3k or 4k with them, even while making mistakes. I don't believe that makes them "weak" then, but whatever. When you ignore your own shortcomings, you can't really learn from them imo. Everyone has room for growth.

  • TeaLeafTeaLeaf Member Posts: 205

    Hmm its an interesting case I will give you, though it is still an argument of playing sub-optimaly because that makes you 'better' and 'more skilled'. However it is the best argument I have herd for such a thing in a while and can relate when its kill your friends. I suppose at the end of the day, if your on the killer side if you seek to win (try hard) by doing what a horror game would have a killer do.. aka kill as your fun or simply chase. Like wise with survivors who load every advantage talent wise they can, if fun for them is surviving or if they don't try to do gens as a priority. For me I expect survivors to gen rush and try to win and killers to kill. If the game was meant to have one character acting as a game master, I would think differently. However both sides are set up in a competitive fashion. Is the issue the games design then?

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 5,023

    @TeaLeaf said:
    Hmm its an interesting case I will give you, though it is still an argument of playing sub-optimaly because that makes you 'better' and 'more skilled'. However it is the best argument I have herd for such a thing in a while and can relate when its kill your friends. I suppose at the end of the day, if your on the killer side if you seek to win (try hard) by doing what a horror game would have a killer do.. aka kill as your fun or simply chase. Like wise with survivors who load every advantage talent wise they can, if fun for them is surviving or if they don't try to do gens as a priority. For me I expect survivors to gen rush and try to win and killers to kill. If the game was meant to have one character acting as a game master, I would think differently. However both sides are set up in a competitive fashion. Is the issue the games design then?

    It comes down to by how much you "win" really. Like when I play survivor and the game is going by REALLY fast and it looks like we got matched with a baby rank <10 killer I will stop doing gens because I know how lame that is for the killer. If I got my pip I usually don't care if I die (only if I find a good item or no on else is going to escape to I really play hard to escape). But if I'm going against what is clearly a rank 1 killer that knows what they are doing I won't sleep on them.

    Same with killer, if I get baby survivors I go easy on them and let the game play out more. If some of them get away I'm cool with that. I won't make it easy for them, but I won't make it impossible either. But then when I see survivors that know how to loop, with an obsession, and popping gens/Ruin fast I will put on my try hard pants and make them work for it. You have to gauge your opponent in this game, because rank ultimately means nothing you have to act as the ranking system in a way if you are really good at the game.

    Just imagine if we had a REAL ELO style ranking system, but instead of matching you with similarly skilled opponents it just threw any 4 survivors into your lobby. You could be rank 1 diamond grand master commander-in-chief marvel's the avengers rank and they could be rank 20 doo doo brain peasant DC presents C-team Justice League. That's kind of how things sometimes work now, so if you want to be a "fair" player you need to consider these things. Otherwise you are really just kind of a bully.

  • SpencerSpencer Member Posts: 68

    Same complaints, it happens a lot. Also I feel like it’s gotten more laggy recently, not sure if that’s just me.

  • daemons_blazedaemons_blaze Member Posts: 3
    The lag is unreal in some matches and not to mention how many people disconnect. Its legit at least 1 person a match 
  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 2,161

    @TeaLeaf said:
    Hmm its an interesting case I will give you, though it is still an argument of playing sub-optimaly because that makes you 'better' and 'more skilled'. However it is the best argument I have herd for such a thing in a while and can relate when its kill your friends. I suppose at the end of the day, if your on the killer side if you seek to win (try hard) by doing what a horror game would have a killer do.. aka kill as your fun or simply chase. Like wise with survivors who load every advantage talent wise they can, if fun for them is surviving or if they don't try to do gens as a priority. For me I expect survivors to gen rush and try to win and killers to kill. If the game was meant to have one character acting as a game master, I would think differently. However both sides are set up in a competitive fashion. Is the issue the games design then?

    Well, I'm not really talking about sub-optimal play. By all means if they rush the hook, punish that. I personally expect it. They shouldn't be doing that. Killers are supposed to take advantage of mistakes and misplays, though. It's part of their role. What irritates me is when the killer WAITS for a misplay. Like they hoover around the hook and wait for someone foolish enough to go in for it. A lot of times people do, too, and reward the killer for something that doesn't take much thought. Given it happens less at the higher ranks, but it's still annoying. And you can always tell who relies on such tactics, like you can tell who uses NOED. They're just weaker players overall. I don't really consider trying to win as being try hard. I consider using OP items/add-ons/offerings as being try hard, especially if it's to help the side who used them win. Like if I want to live (daily), I'm bring in an OP item for myself 'cause I wanna live. I would be essentially try harding.

    I would also argue that just because it's part of the game, doesn't mean it's perfect. My biggest concern is that when killers get all the buffs they need, they'll still camp and tunnel because it's the easy option. Playing killer is far better than it once was and sometimes it feels like there's just been an increase in camping and tunneling. Ideally, we would want a match that is fair for both sides and if one player is tunneled down and killed, they're not really given a chance to play.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 5,023
    edited February 14

    @fluffybunny said:
    Well, I'm not really talking about sub-optimal play. By all means if they rush the hook, punish that. I personally expect it. They shouldn't be doing that. Killers are supposed to take advantage of mistakes and misplays, though. It's part of their role. What irritates me is when the killer WAITS for a misplay. Like they hoover around the hook and wait for someone foolish enough to go in for it. A lot of times people do, too, and reward the killer for something that doesn't take much thought. Given it happens less at the higher ranks, but it's still annoying. And you can always tell who relies on such tactics, like you can tell who uses NOED. They're just weaker players overall. I don't really consider trying to win as being try hard. I consider using OP items/add-ons/offerings as being try hard, especially if it's to help the side who used them win. Like if I want to live (daily), I'm bring in an OP item for myself 'cause I wanna live. I would be essentially try harding.

    Yes! It's a very passive way of playing the game, one that relies on the other player to make mistakes instead of being an active way of playing the game where you create your own opportunities. Defensive play in GENERAL is very frowned upon in many games for this exact reason; it doesn't take a whole lot of skill. Anyone can sit in a room with 2 entrances and just wait for someone to walk by before shooting them. Anyone can pick a projectile spam character and just play keep away the whole time in a fighter. And yes, anyone can catch a survivor and sit there waiting for someone else to come along, either to prevent the save or to allow the save so they can tunnel. You're not special and your not demonstrating skill by playing this way, which is why you don't see these players ever improve, and why other players will get angry with what you are doing (though admittedly in DBD they tend to do this either way so...).

    I had a surv the other day argue with me about dribbling. He was saying I shouldn't do it to avoid DS because it's a glitch and toxic. I explained to him that it's NOT a glitch, and is in fact condone by the devs as a counter tactic to DS. Furthermore I told him that if you run DS you should make an effort to never go down near a hook where you could be dribbled (the counter play to the counter play of dribbling). He said "the only counter to DS is to hope the player misses the skill check". This right here shows you the mindset of most players. They think that relying on someone else's mistakes is a tactic. No, CAPITALIZING on someone's mistakes is a tactic. Relying on the other player to make mistakes as a means to win is foolish, because there comes a point where the opponent makes few, if any, mistakes. Look at any eSport game environment. Now look at the top tier players. Watch some OWL finals, or SF5 matches between top 8 players. These guys don't make mistakes. They don't miss shots and they don't drop combos. When they do, it's a huge moment that commentators will always point out because it's rare. Therefore, if you want to display skill you need to create your own opportunities. You need to actively fight your opponent by outplaying them, not passively fight by waiting for mistakes. You become a better player doing the former, you become a stagnate or worsening player doing the latter. There is a reason you don't see a lot of defensive-type players in high level eSports, and why most defensive play in high level eSports is either reactionary or a prelude to aggressive/offensive play instead of being the main go-to strategy from the start of the game.

  • TeaLeafTeaLeaf Member Posts: 205

    @fluffybunny said:

    @TeaLeaf said:
    Hmm its an interesting case I will give you, though it is still an argument of playing sub-optimaly because that makes you 'better' and 'more skilled'. However it is the best argument I have herd for such a thing in a while and can relate when its kill your friends. I suppose at the end of the day, if your on the killer side if you seek to win (try hard) by doing what a horror game would have a killer do.. aka kill as your fun or simply chase. Like wise with survivors who load every advantage talent wise they can, if fun for them is surviving or if they don't try to do gens as a priority. For me I expect survivors to gen rush and try to win and killers to kill. If the game was meant to have one character acting as a game master, I would think differently. However both sides are set up in a competitive fashion. Is the issue the games design then?

    Well, I'm not really talking about sub-optimal play. By all means if they rush the hook, punish that. I personally expect it. They shouldn't be doing that. Killers are supposed to take advantage of mistakes and misplays, though. It's part of their role. What irritates me is when the killer WAITS for a misplay. Like they hoover around the hook and wait for someone foolish enough to go in for it. A lot of times people do, too, and reward the killer for something that doesn't take much thought. Given it happens less at the higher ranks, but it's still annoying. And you can always tell who relies on such tactics, like you can tell who uses NOED. They're just weaker players overall. I don't really consider trying to win as being try hard. I consider using OP items/add-ons/offerings as being try hard, especially if it's to help the side who used them win. Like if I want to live (daily), I'm bring in an OP item for myself 'cause I wanna live. I would be essentially try harding.

    I would also argue that just because it's part of the game, doesn't mean it's perfect. My biggest concern is that when killers get all the buffs they need, they'll still camp and tunnel because it's the easy option. Playing killer is far better than it once was and sometimes it feels like there's just been an increase in camping and tunneling. Ideally, we would want a match that is fair for both sides and if one player is tunneled down and killed, they're not really given a chance to play.

    Well for the purpose of killing I would say it is indeed a sub-optimal style spoken of. What I am referring too is specifically letting a survivor run off for the reason they got hooked a moment ago or when presented with an option going for the wounded survivor near death rather then the fresh. As well if the gates are powered and you have had no kills, but you have some one hooked it is very sub-optimal to leave that 1 kill you may have secured by camping when leaving assures no kills (and depending on set up of survivors its possible you can't defend that camped hook either).

    When it comes to reaction I mean that survivors use on generators dictate the flow of the match. You can only chase one survivor and the speed at which generators can be completed is 2 min 40 secs for 5 generators (not factoring in interruptions and travel time). This means the killer must react to the survivors flow and mistakes as a skilled loopier and use of pallets can easily allow 3 gens to be completed before the first hook (chase, down, travel time to the hook). A game can be completed in truth in about 3 mins. Some killers are able to apply map pressure but its not universal to all killers as some are not exceptional at map pressure.

    As for defensive play being looked down upon mentioned above I would also add... one of the emblems for killers is gate keeper. It is achieved by preventing the gates being powered 10 mins or not being finished. We also have killers (like the hag) designed for defensive play styles. To say defensive play is a poor style means certain killers should be removed and some of the emblem system is counter productive.

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