Definitive solution to bridge the SWF-Killer-Solos gaps

EntitàEntità Member Posts: 827
edited February 18 in Balance feedback
The long-standing problem of Dead by Daylight, which keeps causing fierce battles within the Community, can be summarized in the formula "a well-organized team ridicules a good killer, a good killer pulverizes four solitary and uncoordinated survivors".

The solution, in theory easy, is to raise the solos to the level of the SWF, then to strengthen the killer, so they can face, without being scared, the teams that act like a swarm, skilled in the loops, ready to blind and bodyblock to deny a hook, devastating totems in a matter of seconds and often inclined to gen rush.

MY PROPOSAL:
A) Survivors earn Kindred 3 as a passive skill, with a 16-meter killer's Aura reading range (this being the distance, decided by the developers, at which the emblem penalty for camping is triggered), OR Survivors earn Kindred 2 as a passive skill and the @Ihatelife's icon system (see https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/46961/change-for-the-solo-survivors-to-help-be-in-level-with-swf for further explanation);
B.) the killer gains NOED, limited to the Exposed status (no movement speed bonus), as a passive skill for 120 seconds after the last gen has been repaired, if there are 4 survivors still alive, or for 60 seconds, if there are 3 survivors left, AND the new totems' Aura colors (see the link written above);
C) Kindred and NOED perks are reworked as follows.

NEW KINDRED.
Unlocks potential in one's Aura-reading ability.
The Entity has given you the gift of telepathy, to communicate with your companions and increase the hopes for survival.
Start the trial with 3/4/5 Tokens.
Press the Active Ability button to consume a Token and leave a mark on the ground. The mark's Aura can be seen by all the Survivors for 20/25/30 seconds, but it's invisible to the Killer.

NEW NOED.
A Hex rooting its power on hope. You are animated by the power of your Hex Totem when the Survivors are on the verge of escaping.

Once the Exit Gates are powered, if there is a Dull Totem remaining on the Map, this Hex is applied to it.

While this Hex is active, during a Chase, the Entity blocks a window for 20 seconds after the first vault and prevents the pallets to be dropped. The windows are blocked only for the vaulting Survivor. The pallets drop is prevented for 1/2/all Survivors.

The Hex effects persist as long as the related Hex Totem is standing.

This reform could both reduce the balance issue and guarantee a thrilling endgame for both parties. :)
Post edited by Entità on

Comments

  • NoShinyPonyNoShinyPony Member Posts: 586

    @Entità said:
    B) the killer gains NOED, limited to the Exposed status (no movement speed bonus), as a passive skill for 120 seconds, if there are 4 survivors still alive, or for 60 seconds, if there are 3 survivors left

    When does he gain NOED as a passive skill? After the gens are done?

  • EntitàEntità Member Posts: 827
    NoShinyPony said:

    @Entità said:
    B) the killer gains NOED, limited to the Exposed status (no movement speed bonus), as a passive skill for 120 seconds, if there are 4 survivors still alive, or for 60 seconds, if there are 3 survivors left

    When does he gain NOED as a passive skill? After the gens are done?

    Yes, when the last gen is fixed. :)
  • RWoodrowRWoodrow Member Posts: 167
    I'm sorry but I don't think buffing survivors this way closes the gap so much as widens it because it buffs SWFs even further. With this system, they no longer have to relay map information (Example - "The killer is over by me near (landmark)" vs "Killer's over here"(teabagging)). It's just a buff to another buff that has extremely limited counter play (nurse/hillbilly) in exchange for a perk that already has alot of counter play (cleanse a totem that's hidden on top of a hill in plain sight 90% of the time.

    The only way to truly close the gap is to add in an opt-in, opt-out in games communication system (not proximity) and balance killers around that.
  • EntitàEntità Member Posts: 827
    @RWoodrow No, read again the OP again, please: both the survivors and the killer get passive skills, that is automatic abilities, while Kindred and NOED are reworked.
  • NoShinyPonyNoShinyPony Member Posts: 586

    @Entità said:
    NoShinyPony said:

    @Entità said:

    B) the killer gains NOED, limited to the Exposed status (no movement speed bonus), as a passive skill for 120 seconds, if there are 4 survivors still alive, or for 60 seconds, if there are 3 survivors left

    When does he gain NOED as a passive skill? After the gens are done?

    Yes, when the last gen is fixed. :)

    Did you know that long time ago NOED worked just like that? It was no hex. After the gens were done, the effect lasted for 2 minutes.

    (Of course, it was a perk and no passive skill and it worked independent from how many survs were alive.)

  • EntitàEntità Member Posts: 827
    edited February 14

    @Entità said:
    NoShinyPony said:

    @Entità said:

    B) the killer gains NOED, limited to the Exposed status (no movement speed bonus), as a passive skill for 120 seconds, if there are 4 survivors still alive, or for 60 seconds, if there are 3 survivors left

    When does he gain NOED as a passive skill? After the gens are done?

    Yes, when the last gen is fixed. :)

    Did you know that long time ago NOED worked just like that? It was no hex. After the gens were done, the effect lasted for 2 minutes.

    (Of course, it was a perk and no passive skill and it worked independent from how many survs were alive.)

    I know, so it should be easier to implement. A passive mechanic, which frees a killer perk and helps them against strong teams (against solos it's improbable 4 people are still alive when gates are powered); they can also combine this mechanic with the new NOED. The same thing happens with survivors, who get a serious help if hooked and a new perk, very useful for solos.
  • RWoodrowRWoodrow Member Posts: 167
    After rereading your proposed changes, my core issue was with giving survivors kindred 3 as a passive skill. 

    Giving a buff to all survivors, buffs SWFs as well as Solos. It doesn't bridge the gap in my opinion. 

    That said, after re-reading the NOED change and passive for the killers...if enough survivor mains will agree to that exchange...we could try it out for science...as long as when they ask for it to be reverted the kindred gets reverted as well...

    ...and they will ask for it to be reverted...

    (Evil laugh)

    In all seriousness, your heart is in the right place. You're not giving buffs to just one side and not completely ignoring balance. I just don't think this is the way to go.
  • EntitàEntità Member Posts: 827
    edited February 14
    @RWoodrow said:
    Giving a buff to all survivors, buffs SWFs as well as Solos. It doesn't bridge the gap in my opinion.

    Teams have voice chat: they don't need any passive Kindred. They'll get a pretty useless mechanic. :)
  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 8,703

    16 meters are too much

  • EntitàEntità Member Posts: 827
    Master said:

    16 meters are too much

    The developers decided to punish the killer camping within 16 meters from the hook with an emblem points loss: I simply apply this criterion to the passive Kindred for survivors.

    Aside the range, do you agree with my proposal? If not, why? And how would you amend it? :)
  • shyguyyshyguyy Member Posts: 25

    @Entità said:
    The long-standing problem of Dead by Daylight, which keeps causing fierce battles within the Community, can be summarized in the formula "a well-organized team ridicules a good killer, a good killer pulverizes four solitary and uncoordinated survivors".

    The solution, in theory easy, is to raise the solos to the level of the SWF, then to strengthen the killer, so they can face, without being scared, the teams that act like a swarm, skilled in the loops, ready to blind and bodyblock to deny a hook, devastating totems in a matter of seconds and often inclined to gen rush.

    MY PROPOSAL:
    A) Survivors earn Kindred 3 as a passive skill, with a 16-meter killer's Aura reading range (this being the distance, decided by the developers, at which the emblem penalty for camping is triggered);
    B) the killer gains NOED, limited to the Exposed status (no movement speed bonus), as a passive skill for 120 seconds after the last gen has been repaired, if there are 4 survivors still alive, or for 60 seconds, if there are 3 survivors left;
    C) Kindred and NOED perks are reworked as follows.

    NEW KINDRED.

    Unlocks potential in one's Aura-reading ability.

    The Entity has given you the gift of telepathy, to communicate with your companions and increase the hopes for survival.

    Start the trial with 3/4/5 Tokens.

    Press the Active Ability button to consume a Token and leave a mark on the ground. The mark's Aura can be seen by all the Survivors for 20/25/30 seconds, but it's invisible to the Killer.

    NEW NOED.

    A Hex rooting its power on hope. You are animated by the power of your Hex Totem when the Survivors are on the verge of escaping.

    Once the Exit Gates are powered, if there is a Dull Totem remaining on the Map, this Hex is applied to it.

    While this Hex is active, during a Chase, the Entity blocks a window for 20 seconds after the first vault and prevents the pallets to be dropped. The windows are blocked only for the vaulting Survivor. The pallets drop is prevented for 1/2/all Survivors.

    The Hex effects persist as long as the related Hex Totem is standing.

    This reform could both reduce the balance issue and guarantee a thrilling endgame for both parties. :)

    So now the killer has NOED AND we can't drop pallets? LOL

  • EntitàEntità Member Posts: 827
    edited February 15
    shyguyy said:

    @Entità said:
    The long-standing problem of Dead by Daylight, which keeps causing fierce battles within the Community, can be summarized in the formula "a well-organized team ridicules a good killer, a good killer pulverizes four solitary and uncoordinated survivors".

    The solution, in theory easy, is to raise the solos to the level of the SWF, then to strengthen the killer, so they can face, without being scared, the teams that act like a swarm, skilled in the loops, ready to blind and bodyblock to deny a hook, devastating totems in a matter of seconds and often inclined to gen rush.

    MY PROPOSAL:
    A) Survivors earn Kindred 3 as a passive skill, with a 16-meter killer's Aura reading range (this being the distance, decided by the developers, at which the emblem penalty for camping is triggered);
    B) the killer gains NOED, limited to the Exposed status (no movement speed bonus), as a passive skill for 120 seconds after the last gen has been repaired, if there are 4 survivors still alive, or for 60 seconds, if there are 3 survivors left;
    C) Kindred and NOED perks are reworked as follows.

    NEW KINDRED.

    Unlocks potential in one's Aura-reading ability.

    The Entity has given you the gift of telepathy, to communicate with your companions and increase the hopes for survival.

    Start the trial with 3/4/5 Tokens.

    Press the Active Ability button to consume a Token and leave a mark on the ground. The mark's Aura can be seen by all the Survivors for 20/25/30 seconds, but it's invisible to the Killer.

    NEW NOED.

    A Hex rooting its power on hope. You are animated by the power of your Hex Totem when the Survivors are on the verge of escaping.

    Once the Exit Gates are powered, if there is a Dull Totem remaining on the Map, this Hex is applied to it.

    While this Hex is active, during a Chase, the Entity blocks a window for 20 seconds after the first vault and prevents the pallets to be dropped. The windows are blocked only for the vaulting Survivor. The pallets drop is prevented for 1/2/all Survivors.

    The Hex effects persist as long as the related Hex Totem is standing.

    This reform could both reduce the balance issue and guarantee a thrilling endgame for both parties. :)

    So now the killer has NOED AND we can't drop pallets? LOL

    Killers need a buff against well organized teams, who mock the killer all the trial with eternal loops and flashlights during a reckless gen rush: the Exposed status triggers only with 4 or 3 survivors still alive in the end, and can be avoided by hiding until the timer ends, while the new NOED can be prevented by cleansing all the totems, like today.

    Solos also need a strong buff against the killer, because the lack of voice chat makes their coordination very poor.

    In other words, well organized teams are the top tier: killers and solo survivors need to be buffed to that level.
    Post edited by Entità on
  • EntitàEntità Member Posts: 827
    This reform is very urgent.

    Playing as a solo, with other solos, it means to waste your own time: people running into random places, gens almost done forgotten by other survivors, deaths on the first hook or three people running to the hook, a mess from the beginning to the very end. Simply awful: you lose any form of fun and get angry.

    Playing as a killer against a full team is no less unnerving: infinite loops and tbagging, an army of flashlights which appear from nowhere when you down somebody, hexes unplayable, instaheals and Adrenaline and DS everywhere... a nightmare, without Freddy.

    Please, @not_Queen @Patricia, restore the balance among Solos, Killers and SWF: all players deserve to have a fair game. :(
  • ChesterTheMolesterChesterTheMolester Member Posts: 2,372
    I'd say that once dedicated servers are released, the game will differentiate between Solos and SWFs, solos will get passive buffs like Kindred and SWFs will get nothing to bridge the gap, then Killers can get universal buffs.
  • EntitàEntità Member Posts: 827
    ChesterTheMolester said:
    I'd say that once dedicated servers are released, the game will differentiate between Solos and SWFs, solos will get passive buffs like Kindred and SWFs will get nothing to bridge the gap, then Killers can get universal buffs.

    SWF means voice chat: if they get Kindred, they get nothing. Kindred as a passive skill helps Solos against the Killer. The Exposed status as a passive skill in the endgame with 4 or 3 survivors still alive for 120/60 seconds helps the Killer against SWF (it's almost impossible 3 or 4 solos are alive when the last gen pops). There is no need to wait several months. :(
  • NuclearBurrito2NuclearBurrito2 Member Posts: 262

    or we could just give solo's VC

  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 8,703
    Entità said:
    This reform is very urgent.

    Playing as a solo, with other solos, it means to waste your own time: people running into random places, gens almost done forgotten by other survivors, deaths on the first hook or three people running to the hook, a mess from the beginning to the very end. Simply awful: you lose any form of fun and get angry.

    Playing as a killer against a full team is no less unnerving: infinite loops and tbagging, an army of flashlights which appear from nowhere when you down somebody, hexes unplayable, instaheals and Adrenaline and DS everywhere... a nightmare, without Freddy.

    Please, @not_Queen @Patricia, restore the balance among Solos, Killers and SWF: all players deserve to have a fair game. :(
    The biggest problem of playing solo is that you get matched with compete plebs, but that's the fault of the ranking system.

    Playing with a competent team of solos can be really fun,but sadly it practically doesn't happen anymore (I miss the old days)
  • EntitàEntità Member Posts: 827
    Master said:
    Entità said:
    This reform is very urgent.

    Playing as a solo, with other solos, it means to waste your own time: people running into random places, gens almost done forgotten by other survivors, deaths on the first hook or three people running to the hook, a mess from the beginning to the very end. Simply awful: you lose any form of fun and get angry.

    Playing as a killer against a full team is no less unnerving: infinite loops and tbagging, an army of flashlights which appear from nowhere when you down somebody, hexes unplayable, instaheals and Adrenaline and DS everywhere... a nightmare, without Freddy.

    Please, @not_Queen @Patricia, restore the balance among Solos, Killers and SWF: all players deserve to have a fair game. :(
    The biggest problem of playing solo is that you get matched with compete plebs, but that's the fault of the ranking system.

    Playing with a competent team of solos can be really fun,but sadly it practically doesn't happen anymore (I miss the old days)
    Do you support the proposal written in the OP, then? :)

  • NuclearBurrito2NuclearBurrito2 Member Posts: 262

    @Entità said:
    Master said:


    Entità said:

    This reform is very urgent.

    Playing as a solo, with other solos, it means to waste your own time: people running into random places, gens almost done forgotten by other survivors, deaths on the first hook or three people running to the hook, a mess from the beginning to the very end. Simply awful: you lose any form of fun and get angry.

    Playing as a killer against a full team is no less unnerving: infinite loops and tbagging, an army of flashlights which appear from nowhere when you down somebody, hexes unplayable, instaheals and Adrenaline and DS everywhere... a nightmare, without Freddy.

    Please, @not_Queen @Patricia, restore the balance among Solos, Killers and SWF: all players deserve to have a fair game. :(

    The biggest problem of playing solo is that you get matched with compete plebs, but that's the fault of the ranking system.

    Playing with a competent team of solos can be really fun,but sadly it practically doesn't happen anymore (I miss the old days)

    Do you support the proposal written in the OP, then? :)

    @NuclearBurrito2 What?

    Well SWF can be as coordinated as they are because of voice chat. So give solo's voice chat and suddenly everyone has the exact same tools

  • EntitàEntità Member Posts: 827
    NuclearBurrito2 said:

    @Entità said:
    Master said:


    Entità said:

    This reform is very urgent.

    Playing as a solo, with other solos, it means to waste your own time: people running into random places, gens almost done forgotten by other survivors, deaths on the first hook or three people running to the hook, a mess from the beginning to the very end. Simply awful: you lose any form of fun and get angry.

    Playing as a killer against a full team is no less unnerving: infinite loops and tbagging, an army of flashlights which appear from nowhere when you down somebody, hexes unplayable, instaheals and Adrenaline and DS everywhere... a nightmare, without Freddy.

    Please, @not_Queen @Patricia, restore the balance among Solos, Killers and SWF: all players deserve to have a fair game. :(

    The biggest problem of playing solo is that you get matched with compete plebs, but that's the fault of the ranking system.

    Playing with a competent team of solos can be really fun,but sadly it practically doesn't happen anymore (I miss the old days)

    Do you support the proposal written in the OP, then? :)

    @NuclearBurrito2 What?

    Well SWF can be as coordinated as they are because of voice chat. So give solo's voice chat and suddenly everyone has the exact same tools


    Voice chat among English, Spanish, German, Chinese, Russian, Italian people? No, and you cannot force young players to speak with unknown, random mates: survivors need some in game help. :)
  • EntitàEntità Member Posts: 827
    @Ihatelife I rewrote the OP to merge your and my proposals. I'd appreciate your feedback about the result. :)
  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 8,703

    @NuclearBurrito2 said:

    @Entità said:
    Master said:


    Entità said:

    This reform is very urgent.

    Playing as a solo, with other solos, it means to waste your own time: people running into random places, gens almost done forgotten by other survivors, deaths on the first hook or three people running to the hook, a mess from the beginning to the very end. Simply awful: you lose any form of fun and get angry.

    Playing as a killer against a full team is no less unnerving: infinite loops and tbagging, an army of flashlights which appear from nowhere when you down somebody, hexes unplayable, instaheals and Adrenaline and DS everywhere... a nightmare, without Freddy.

    Please, @not_Queen @Patricia, restore the balance among Solos, Killers and SWF: all players deserve to have a fair game. :(

    The biggest problem of playing solo is that you get matched with compete plebs, but that's the fault of the ranking system.

    Playing with a competent team of solos can be really fun,but sadly it practically doesn't happen anymore (I miss the old days)

    Do you support the proposal written in the OP, then? :)

    @NuclearBurrito2 What?

    Well SWF can be as coordinated as they are because of voice chat. So give solo's voice chat and suddenly everyone has the exact same tools

    Survivors will always find arguments against that because they dont want the game to be balanced around voice comms

  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 8,703

    @Entità said:
    NuclearBurrito2 said:

    @Entità said:

    Master said:

    Entità said:

This reform is very urgent.

Playing as a solo, with other solos, it means to waste your own time: people running into random places, gens almost done forgotten by other survivors, deaths on the first hook or three people running to the hook, a mess from the beginning to the very end. Simply awful: you lose any form of fun and get angry.

Playing as a killer against a full team is no less unnerving: infinite loops and tbagging, an army of flashlights which appear from nowhere when you down somebody, hexes unplayable, instaheals and Adrenaline and DS everywhere... a nightmare, without Freddy.

Please, @not_Queen @Patricia, restore the balance among Solos, Killers and SWF: all players deserve to have a fair game. :(

The biggest problem of playing solo is that you get matched with compete plebs, but that's the fault of the ranking system.

Playing with a competent team of solos can be really fun,but sadly it practically doesn't happen anymore (I miss the old days)

Do you support the proposal written in the OP, then? :)

    @NuclearBurrito2 What?

    Well SWF can be as coordinated as they are because of voice chat. So give solo's voice chat and suddenly everyone has the exact same tools

    Voice chat among English, Spanish, German, Chinese, Russian, Italian people? No, and you cannot force young players to speak with unknown, random mates: survivors need some in game help. :)

    The game is 18+
    The insulting is done in english aswell, so I dont see a reason at all why this shouldtn happen.

  • EntitàEntità Member Posts: 827
    Master said:

    @Entità said:
    NuclearBurrito2 said:

    @Entità said:

    Master said:

    Entità said:

This reform is very urgent.

Playing as a solo, with other solos, it means to waste your own time: people running into random places, gens almost done forgotten by other survivors, deaths on the first hook or three people running to the hook, a mess from the beginning to the very end. Simply awful: you lose any form of fun and get angry.

Playing as a killer against a full team is no less unnerving: infinite loops and tbagging, an army of flashlights which appear from nowhere when you down somebody, hexes unplayable, instaheals and Adrenaline and DS everywhere... a nightmare, without Freddy.

Please, @not_Queen @Patricia, restore the balance among Solos, Killers and SWF: all players deserve to have a fair game. :(

The biggest problem of playing solo is that you get matched with compete plebs, but that's the fault of the ranking system.

Playing with a competent team of solos can be really fun,but sadly it practically doesn't happen anymore (I miss the old days)

Do you support the proposal written in the OP, then? :)

    @NuclearBurrito2 What?

    Well SWF can be as coordinated as they are because of voice chat. So give solo's voice chat and suddenly everyone has the exact same tools

    Voice chat among English, Spanish, German, Chinese, Russian, Italian people? No, and you cannot force young players to speak with unknown, random mates: survivors need some in game help. :)

    The game is 18+
    The insulting is done in english aswell, so I dont see a reason at all why this shouldtn happen.


    What insults are you talking about? Bad words are quite different from having a long conversation with unknown people about game coordination. I know many 12/13/14yo players: you are confusing rules and reality. The PEGI classification is not a law prohibition: a lot of under age people use that game, which is far less scary than other horror games. Moreover, to know a good spoken English it's not a game requirement: that's a game, not a school lesson to learn foreign languages.

    Could you kindly read and comment the OP? Do you agree? Don't you agree? How would you amend it?
  • IhatelifeIhatelife Member Posts: 968

    I like this scenario <3 I'll hope the devs will read this

  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 8,703

    @Entità said:
    Master said:

    @Entità said:

    NuclearBurrito2 said:

    @Entità said:

Master said:

    Entità said: This reform is very urgent. Playing as a solo, with other solos, it means to waste your own time: people running into random places, gens almost done forgotten by other survivors, deaths on the first hook or three people running to the hook, a mess from the beginning to the very end. Simply awful: you lose any form of fun and get angry. Playing as a killer against a full team is no less unnerving: infinite loops and tbagging, an army of flashlights which appear from nowhere when you down somebody, hexes unplayable, instaheals and Adrenaline and DS everywhere... a nightmare, without Freddy. Please, @not_Queen @Patricia, restore the balance among Solos, Killers and SWF: all players deserve to have a fair game. :( The biggest problem of playing solo is that you get matched with compete plebs, but that's the fault of the ranking system. Playing with a competent team of solos can be really fun,but sadly it practically doesn't happen anymore (I miss the old days) Do you support the proposal written in the OP, then? :)

    @NuclearBurrito2 What?



    Well SWF can be as coordinated as they are because of voice chat. So give solo's voice chat and suddenly everyone has the exact same tools





    Voice chat among English, Spanish, German, Chinese, Russian, Italian people? No, and you cannot force young players to speak with unknown, random mates: survivors need some in game help. :)

    The game is 18+

    The insulting is done in english aswell, so I dont see a reason at all why this shouldtn happen.

    What insults are you talking about? Bad words are quite different from having a long conversation with unknown people about game coordination. I know many 12/13/14yo players: you are confusing rules and reality. The PEGI classification is not a law prohibition: a lot of under age people use that game, which is far less scary than other horror games. Moreover, to know a good spoken English it's not a game requirement: that's a game, not a school lesson to learn foreign languages.

    Could you kindly read and comment the OP? Do you agree? Don't you agree? How would you amend it?

    The death threats I receive are usually in english. Maybe three times a year I get this russian that spams some stuff, but thats really an exception.

    Also you are not forced to use voice comms, its just an possibilities for those that wanna use them but dont play SWF

  • EntitàEntità Member Posts: 827
    @Master Death threats? Awful! :(
    @Peanits explained very well in the other thread why chats are not the solution: mine could be a solution, something inside the game mechanics could be a solution.
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