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For those who claim that winning is defined as pipping

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  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,155

    @thesuicidefox said:

    @NuclearBurrito said:
    And this isn't really a team game. Each survivor has a slightly different wincon

    No but you would be wise to keep others alive because the more survivors there are the greater your individual chances to escape. It's in your better interest to do it to meet your other objectives.

    @NuclearBurrito said:
    Hell you can even get iridescent lightbringer without completing a single generator

    LOL who is even saying this?

    Indeed it IS wise to keep others alive. That is why the game counts it as skillful and wants people who do that to rank up. That does NOT mean it is part of the wincondition anymore than cleansing totems are. Speaking of which to your other point:

    I am. I did the math and if you cleanse 4 hex totems and do 87.5% of a generator then you get iridescent lightbringer. Since it is possible for that to be all of the progress made in the entire course of the game this means you can get lightbringer without completing any generators.

    You can even get gold without anyone even TOUCHING a generator

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 7,485

    @Ryuhi said:
    Which is exactly why most people don't go off of your definition of a win. Your definition completely excludes both skill and performance in favor of a static milestone that can be exploited.

    Exploited AND forked over by random and OP bullsnot.

  • HavelmomDaS1HavelmomDaS1 Member Posts: 1,948
    Let's be honest here, pipping is more like a participation trophy than any indication of winning/losing. 
  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 861

    @twistedmonkey said:
    It says "sacrificing survivors" for the killer, so does that mean 1 or 2 is considered a win? you achieved your goal afterall as it doesnt exactly say how many you need ;).

    Gen rushing is also the biggest win for survivors.

    I think the tutorial does need updated and be changed to the basics of the game as a win is subjective to each individual, for me its about a fun match and making lots of bloodpoints.

    Personally escaping, killing, pips dont matter as I want those juicy bloodpoints to lvl up my chars

    When it comes to The Grind(tm) I consider any progress toward making my killer roster viable a victory for now lmao. Gimme a game where i die but 5 party streamers were used and I got 4 stacks of WGLF and I will give myself a "world's most glorious loser" medal.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,155

    @twistedmonkey said:
    It says "sacrificing survivors" for the killer, so does that mean 1 or 2 is considered a win? you achieved your goal afterall as it doesnt exactly say how many you need ;).

    Gen rushing is also the biggest win for survivors.

    I think the tutorial does need updated and be changed to the basics of the game as a win is subjective to each individual, for me its about a fun match and making lots of bloodpoints.

    Personally escaping, killing, pips dont matter as I want those juicy bloodpoints to lvl up my chars

    Yeah you can still make your arguments over if 1-3k is a win. I have a good reason to think it is specifically 4k, but it isn't conclusive or anything just a line that implies it.

  • CarpemortumCarpemortum Member Posts: 4,154
    Ryuhi said:

    Well look at it this way: If you hide in a corner and do literally nothing the entire game, wait for 2 gens to get done while your 3 teammates get killed, and then you sneak into the hatch getting a whopping total of 5k survival points and no pip.... do you honestly think you won?

    Winning is most often described as achieving what you set out to accomplish. Thats why it changes so much between individuals what it is actually defined as, we don't all have the same objectives every game. Hell, I call it a win if I accomplish my dailies half the time :D

    In a game where my survivors goal is to survive? 100% yes. Did I do well? No. Am I selfish and slimy? Yes. But did I survive/win. Yes.
  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 861

    @NuclearBurrito said:

    @thesuicidefox said:

    @NuclearBurrito said:
    And this isn't really a team game. Each survivor has a slightly different wincon

    No but you would be wise to keep others alive because the more survivors there are the greater your individual chances to escape. It's in your better interest to do it to meet your other objectives.

    @NuclearBurrito said:
    Hell you can even get iridescent lightbringer without completing a single generator

    LOL who is even saying this?

    Indeed it IS wise to keep others alive. That is why the game counts it as skillful and wants people who do that to rank up. That does NOT mean it is part of the wincondition anymore than cleansing totems are. Speaking of which to your other point:

    I am. I did the math and if you cleanse 4 hex totems and do 87.5% of a generator then you get iridescent lightbringer. Since it is possible for that to be all of the progress made in the entire course of the game this means you can get lightbringer without completing any generators.

    You can even get gold without anyone even TOUCHING a generator

    Why would you even base a scenario off of a killer having 4 hex perks, and a single player clensing all of them? Thats kinda on the far end of hypothetical, especially when pairing it with nobody else doing a single gen or even 12.5% of the one you also did.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,155

    Point is. If you can (even in theory) pip without making real progress towards your stated goal then pipping obviously ISN'T your stated goal.

    I wonder if you can pip without hooking, morying or bleeding anyone out.

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 2,161

    For survivor, the more you have present, the easier it is to do objectives and get out. It's ideal to help out your team. For killer, "Meanwhile, Survivors will be attempting to repair 5 generators... Killers should do everything in their power to stop them." If you do what is required to pip, you'll be doing everything in your power to stop them.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,155

    @Ryuhi said:

    @NuclearBurrito said:

    @thesuicidefox said:

    @NuclearBurrito said:
    And this isn't really a team game. Each survivor has a slightly different wincon

    No but you would be wise to keep others alive because the more survivors there are the greater your individual chances to escape. It's in your better interest to do it to meet your other objectives.

    @NuclearBurrito said:
    Hell you can even get iridescent lightbringer without completing a single generator

    LOL who is even saying this?

    Indeed it IS wise to keep others alive. That is why the game counts it as skillful and wants people who do that to rank up. That does NOT mean it is part of the wincondition anymore than cleansing totems are. Speaking of which to your other point:

    I am. I did the math and if you cleanse 4 hex totems and do 87.5% of a generator then you get iridescent lightbringer. Since it is possible for that to be all of the progress made in the entire course of the game this means you can get lightbringer without completing any generators.

    You can even get gold without anyone even TOUCHING a generator

    Why would you even base a scenario off of a killer having 4 hex perks, and a single player clensing all of them? Thats kinda on the far end of hypothetical, especially when pairing it with nobody else doing a single gen or even 12.5% of the one you also did.

    Doesn't matter. It can theoretically happen and we could assign that situation a win/lose status. And if you won every chase but 1 and they lasted a very long time and you also got a lot of unhooks ect then you can get irridencent in everything but unbroken which you can get silver in

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 861

    I've never seen someone get this flustered over other people having a different definition of victory.

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 861

    @NuclearBurrito said:

    @Ryuhi said:

    @NuclearBurrito said:

    @thesuicidefox said:

    @NuclearBurrito said:
    And this isn't really a team game. Each survivor has a slightly different wincon

    No but you would be wise to keep others alive because the more survivors there are the greater your individual chances to escape. It's in your better interest to do it to meet your other objectives.

    @NuclearBurrito said:
    Hell you can even get iridescent lightbringer without completing a single generator

    LOL who is even saying this?

    Indeed it IS wise to keep others alive. That is why the game counts it as skillful and wants people who do that to rank up. That does NOT mean it is part of the wincondition anymore than cleansing totems are. Speaking of which to your other point:

    I am. I did the math and if you cleanse 4 hex totems and do 87.5% of a generator then you get iridescent lightbringer. Since it is possible for that to be all of the progress made in the entire course of the game this means you can get lightbringer without completing any generators.

    You can even get gold without anyone even TOUCHING a generator

    Why would you even base a scenario off of a killer having 4 hex perks, and a single player clensing all of them? Thats kinda on the far end of hypothetical, especially when pairing it with nobody else doing a single gen or even 12.5% of the one you also did.

    Doesn't matter. It can theoretically happen and we could assign that situation a win/lose status. And if you won every chase but 1 and they lasted a very long time and you also got a lot of unhooks ect then you can get irridencent in everything but unbroken which you can get silver in

    Grounding the theoretical into the realistically probable absolutely matters. Otherwise you could come up with some crazy scenario that has almost nothing to do with the game itself but results in your "win" as a sideffect. The entire point of trying to be realistic with possibilities is to narrow the x factor into something actually related to your average game experience.

    and yes, in a game where you carried the hell out of your team and got almost every single category as iridescent, you won because you outperformed what was expected of you to a large degree. There are multiple factors that are beyond any individual's control in this game, which is why people are more accepting to the shifted nature of victory. Without that mentality, every single game would be survivors too scared to even touch gens, just hiding in corners and moving just enough to not attract crows. It would be a boring game that would die overnight.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,155

    @Ryuhi said:
    I've never seen someone get this flustered over other people having a different definition of victory.

    When people start saying I can't balance around the in-game wincondition is when this kind of thread becomes necessary.

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 861

    @fluffybunny said:
    For survivor, the more you have present, the easier it is to do objectives and get out. It's ideal to help out your team. For killer, "Meanwhile, Survivors will be attempting to repair 5 generators... Killers should do everything in their power to stop them." If you do what is required to pip, you'll be doing everything in your power to stop them.

    One could even say that the pip conditions are the actual objectives, and the "main objective" is merely the result of accomplishing said objectives. When you accomplish your "main objective" without progressing your emblems, it means you did little to actually get your victory and were handed it on a silver platter.

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 861

    @NuclearBurrito said:

    @Ryuhi said:
    I've never seen someone get this flustered over other people having a different definition of victory.

    When people start saying I can't balance around the in-game wincondition is when this kind of thread becomes necessary.

    And what balance would that be? I can't think of much that would be anti-emblem progress but pro-win condition unless it specifically caters to being exceptionally scummy and griefing other players. Maybe thats why people would be opposed?

  • Tzeentchling9Tzeentchling9 Member Posts: 1,796
    *insert 2016 "You pipped, therefore you had fun."* meme
  • EvelineEveline Member Posts: 2,340
    Win=Pip.

    Fight me. ^,...,^
  • twistedmonkeytwistedmonkey Member, Trusted Posts: 3,795

    @thesuicidefox said:

    Which you totally have the right to do. But because you set your OWN win condition, you shouldn't get mad at the games that just don't go your way. If you get a good group of survivors that loop and gen rush you won't get a lot of BP. It doesn't mean the game should change just for you and give you some kind of bonus BP even when you don't make a lot do you?

    I never do ;) its a game why so many people get upset at others is beyond me, you win some you lose some and move onto another, no need to be salty when you get outplayed, its the best way to learn and get better.

    @Ryuhi said:

    When it comes to The Grind(tm) I consider any progress toward making my killer roster viable a victory for now lmao. Gimme a game where i die but 5 party streamers were used and I got 4 stacks of WGLF and I will give myself a "world's most glorious loser" medal.

    Exactly, those juicy bloodpoints are worth more than anything else in the game for likes of myself :) , the Grind is the game as each time I get what I want I find I want more.

    @NuclearBurrito said:

    Yeah you can still make your arguments over if 1-3k is a win. I have a good reason to think it is specifically 4k, but it isn't conclusive or anything just a line that implies it.

    Personally I cant see anything that implies 4k but if you point it out I may see it differently, if not I understand as so many may come and argue over it with you ;)

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 2,161

    @Ryuhi said:

    @fluffybunny said:
    For survivor, the more you have present, the easier it is to do objectives and get out. It's ideal to help out your team. For killer, "Meanwhile, Survivors will be attempting to repair 5 generators... Killers should do everything in their power to stop them." If you do what is required to pip, you'll be doing everything in your power to stop them.

    One could even say that the pip conditions are the actual objectives, and the "main objective" is merely the result of accomplishing said objectives. When you accomplish your "main objective" without progressing your emblems, it means you did little to actually get your victory and were handed it on a silver platter.

    Yeah, the main objective would be the door and what you have to do to get there would be the staircase. It's fun to change the objective sometimes, though, like when you get bored and what additional difficulties lol.

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 861

    @fluffybunny said:

    @Ryuhi said:

    @fluffybunny said:
    For survivor, the more you have present, the easier it is to do objectives and get out. It's ideal to help out your team. For killer, "Meanwhile, Survivors will be attempting to repair 5 generators... Killers should do everything in their power to stop them." If you do what is required to pip, you'll be doing everything in your power to stop them.

    One could even say that the pip conditions are the actual objectives, and the "main objective" is merely the result of accomplishing said objectives. When you accomplish your "main objective" without progressing your emblems, it means you did little to actually get your victory and were handed it on a silver platter.

    Yeah, the main objective would be the door and what you have to do to get there would be the staircase. It's fun to change the objective sometimes, though, like when you get bored and what additional difficulties lol.

    I've had games where my personal objective is just to get better at looping, or to try to practice red stain mindgames at places like T/L walls. I usually won't get a 4k or survive, but I'll have improved as a player for it. And since there is no actual training mode in this game, thats about the only way to git gudder.

  • GrootDudeGrootDude Member Posts: 14,088
    edited February 2019

    My opinion.

    Survivor: 0-1 die that’s a win, 2 die that’s a draw, and 3-4 die that’s a loss.

    Killer: 0-1 die that’s a loss, 2 die that’s a draw, and if 3-4 die that’s a win.

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 2,161

    @Ryuhi said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @Ryuhi said:

    @fluffybunny said:
    For survivor, the more you have present, the easier it is to do objectives and get out. It's ideal to help out your team. For killer, "Meanwhile, Survivors will be attempting to repair 5 generators... Killers should do everything in their power to stop them." If you do what is required to pip, you'll be doing everything in your power to stop them.

    One could even say that the pip conditions are the actual objectives, and the "main objective" is merely the result of accomplishing said objectives. When you accomplish your "main objective" without progressing your emblems, it means you did little to actually get your victory and were handed it on a silver platter.

    Yeah, the main objective would be the door and what you have to do to get there would be the staircase. It's fun to change the objective sometimes, though, like when you get bored and what additional difficulties lol.

    I've had games where my personal objective is just to get better at looping, or to try to practice red stain mindgames at places like T/L walls. I usually won't get a 4k or survive, but I'll have improved as a player for it. And since there is no actual training mode in this game, thats about the only way to git gudder.

    A couple of times while playing SWF, we played protect the president where the president was basically useless (wouldn't do anything) and any time the president would be found, we'd take aggro or use our insta heals and go down in their place. Some of the killers played into it and it was great. If the president died, it was a fail state. XD I actually lived at one point and the Huntress was gonna give me hatch, but I shook my head 'cause the guard doesn't deserve to live if they can't protect the president. I think we did it as a joke 'cause everyone else was red and one person was green. There was another time I was playing with a Bill and someone else and their mission was to protect the Dwight. It was funny.

    I don't usually live either, tbh. Lately I've been practicing with DH, though that also means I have a perk I'm not super familiar with. I need to do more of that as killer, tbh. Practice mind games and not worry so much about points. I know recently I pulled a friend into KYF recently to practice DH with the perspective of like a high ranked killer. I kinda wish there was a practice mode where you could practice perks and that sort of stuff.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,155

    @twistedmonkey said:

    @thesuicidefox said:

    Which you totally have the right to do. But because you set your OWN win condition, you shouldn't get mad at the games that just don't go your way. If you get a good group of survivors that loop and gen rush you won't get a lot of BP. It doesn't mean the game should change just for you and give you some kind of bonus BP even when you don't make a lot do you?

    I never do ;) its a game why so many people get upset at others is beyond me, you win some you lose some and move onto another, no need to be salty when you get outplayed, its the best way to learn and get better.

    @Ryuhi said:

    When it comes to The Grind(tm) I consider any progress toward making my killer roster viable a victory for now lmao. Gimme a game where i die but 5 party streamers were used and I got 4 stacks of WGLF and I will give myself a "world's most glorious loser" medal.

    Exactly, those juicy bloodpoints are worth more than anything else in the game for likes of myself :) , the Grind is the game as each time I get what I want I find I want more.

    @NuclearBurrito said:

    Yeah you can still make your arguments over if 1-3k is a win. I have a good reason to think it is specifically 4k, but it isn't conclusive or anything just a line that implies it.

    Personally I cant see anything that implies 4k but if you point it out I may see it differently, if not I understand as so many may come and argue over it with you ;)

    Wasn't in one of the screenshots in the OP (although 4k=win is the most intuitive conclusion given what it says). I was refering to the line at the bottom of this screenshot

    Since it only implies 4k rather than outright stating it like where it says "SURVIVOR'S GOAL IS TO ESCAPE" I'm not trying to use it as conclusive evidence

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 861
    edited February 2019

    @fluffybunny said:

    @Ryuhi said:

    @fluffybunny said:

    @Ryuhi said:

    @fluffybunny said:
    For survivor, the more you have present, the easier it is to do objectives and get out. It's ideal to help out your team. For killer, "Meanwhile, Survivors will be attempting to repair 5 generators... Killers should do everything in their power to stop them." If you do what is required to pip, you'll be doing everything in your power to stop them.

    One could even say that the pip conditions are the actual objectives, and the "main objective" is merely the result of accomplishing said objectives. When you accomplish your "main objective" without progressing your emblems, it means you did little to actually get your victory and were handed it on a silver platter.

    Yeah, the main objective would be the door and what you have to do to get there would be the staircase. It's fun to change the objective sometimes, though, like when you get bored and what additional difficulties lol.

    I've had games where my personal objective is just to get better at looping, or to try to practice red stain mindgames at places like T/L walls. I usually won't get a 4k or survive, but I'll have improved as a player for it. And since there is no actual training mode in this game, thats about the only way to git gudder.

    A couple of times while playing SWF, we played protect the president where the president was basically useless (wouldn't do anything) and any time the president would be found, we'd take aggro or use our insta heals and go down in their place. Some of the killers played into it and it was great. If the president died, it was a fail state. XD I actually lived at one point and the Huntress was gonna give me hatch, but I shook my head 'cause the guard doesn't deserve to live if they can't protect the president. I think we did it as a joke 'cause everyone else was red and one person was green. There was another time I was playing with a Bill and someone else and their mission was to protect the Dwight. It was funny.

    I don't usually live either, tbh. Lately I've been practicing with DH, though that also means I have a perk I'm not super familiar with. I need to do more of that as killer, tbh. Practice mind games and not worry so much about points. I know recently I pulled a friend into KYF recently to practice DH with the perspective of like a high ranked killer. I kinda wish there was a practice mode where you could practice perks and that sort of stuff.

    I know the game can't really afford to split the base for it, but man there's a lot of potential for alternate game modes like that. Also tbh don't feel too bad about not practicing new tech, the hardest part is having to deal with the gloating from the other side as a consequence so it can be more daunting than it should be.

  • knellknell Member Posts: 467

    When playing chess, it doesn't matter how many points I accumulate (based on the Reinfeld values) or whether I took twice as many pieces as my opponent - if the opponent places me in a checkmate in the end, I have to face the fact that I lost.

    When I play DBD, it doesn't matter how much points I accumulated by repairing generators, saving other survivors, or did well in a chase - if I die in the end, I lost. If I didn't, I win.

    If people want to believe that this horror/survival game is actually a point salad game, that's fine - they can minimax for points all they want if that's what they have fun doing. Different people, different strokes. I just prefer just enjoying the experience of survival horror - to live or to die. But I don't see anywhere in the official tutorial or the FAQ that states that 'pipping is the winning condition' as claimed by some of you. In fact, in addition to what NuclearBurrito has already provided, the only thing about 'pip' I can find in an official capacity is that, "Emblems are a used as a system to evaluate your performance during a match and gives you pips in order to rank up." So Pip is simply an indicator of whether you were able to rank up or not (for matchmaking purposes), and not an indicator of your victory. In most games, you can perform really well, but sometimes still lose - I see DBD falling in the same category. I suspect that some of you just can't stand that.

    But I'd be happy to be proven wrong - from an official source. If you can't do that, perhaps you shouldn't be so driven to force your 'pipping is winning' condition to the rest of us. Afterall, even the game director has stated that, "One of the difficulties is that the game does not have a clear-cut win/lose condition" fairly recently in a Twitchcon 2018 interview.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,155

    @Ryuhi said:

    @NuclearBurrito said:

    @Ryuhi said:

    @NuclearBurrito said:

    @thesuicidefox said:

    @NuclearBurrito said:
    And this isn't really a team game. Each survivor has a slightly different wincon

    No but you would be wise to keep others alive because the more survivors there are the greater your individual chances to escape. It's in your better interest to do it to meet your other objectives.

    @NuclearBurrito said:
    Hell you can even get iridescent lightbringer without completing a single generator

    LOL who is even saying this?

    Indeed it IS wise to keep others alive. That is why the game counts it as skillful and wants people who do that to rank up. That does NOT mean it is part of the wincondition anymore than cleansing totems are. Speaking of which to your other point:

    I am. I did the math and if you cleanse 4 hex totems and do 87.5% of a generator then you get iridescent lightbringer. Since it is possible for that to be all of the progress made in the entire course of the game this means you can get lightbringer without completing any generators.

    You can even get gold without anyone even TOUCHING a generator

    Why would you even base a scenario off of a killer having 4 hex perks, and a single player clensing all of them? Thats kinda on the far end of hypothetical, especially when pairing it with nobody else doing a single gen or even 12.5% of the one you also did.

    Doesn't matter. It can theoretically happen and we could assign that situation a win/lose status. And if you won every chase but 1 and they lasted a very long time and you also got a lot of unhooks ect then you can get irridencent in everything but unbroken which you can get silver in

    Grounding the theoretical into the realistically probable absolutely matters. Otherwise you could come up with some crazy scenario that has almost nothing to do with the game itself but results in your "win" as a sideffect. The entire point of trying to be realistic with possibilities is to narrow the x factor into something actually related to your average game experience.

    and yes, in a game where you carried the hell out of your team and got almost every single category as iridescent, you won because you outperformed what was expected of you to a large degree. There are multiple factors that are beyond any individual's control in this game, which is why people are more accepting to the shifted nature of victory. Without that mentality, every single game would be survivors too scared to even touch gens, just hiding in corners and moving just enough to not attract crows. It would be a boring game that would die overnight.

    The theoretical absolutely matters when discussing definitions. Simply because given how definitions work in order for a pip to be a win that means all examples of pipping must also be wins, and all examples of winning must also be pips.

    If there is even a singe situation where this isn't the case then that means pipping is not winning. For example I cannot come up with a single situation where escaping is not a win for a survivor since the second they escape they are set into a state of victory, and on the otherside I cannot come up with a single situation where not escaping is a win because being in a situation where you can't escape causes you to instantly lose

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,155

    So the only gray area is in if other forms of killing besides sacrifices count as killing for the purpose of winning and the exact number of sacrifices needed to win as killer

  • Paddy4583Paddy4583 Member Posts: 864

    @Ryuhi said:

    @NuclearBurrito said:

    @Ryuhi said:
    Well look at it this way: If you hide in a corner and do literally nothing the entire game, wait for 2 gens to get done while your 3 teammates get killed, and then you sneak into the hatch getting a whopping total of 5k survival points and no pip.... do you honestly think you won?

    Yes

    So selling out your entire team is a victory if you contribute nothing and purposely prevent them from being able to succeed. Thats almost teamkilling level and you consider it winning. You should probably just go play battle royale games or something.

    Not my fault the wincon says nothing about helping everyone ELSE escape

    It also doesn’t say anything about a 4K sooooo...
    stale mate
  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 2,161

    @knell said:
    When playing chess, it doesn't matter how many points I accumulate (based on the Reinfeld values) or whether I took twice as many pieces as my opponent - if the opponent places me in a checkmate in the end, I have to face the fact that I lost.

    When I play DBD, it doesn't matter how much points I accumulated by repairing generators, saving other survivors, or did well in a chase - if I die in the end, I lost. If I didn't, I win.

    If people want to believe that this horror/survival game is actually a point salad game, that's fine - they can minimax for points all they want if that's what they have fun doing. Different people, different strokes. I just prefer just enjoying the experience of survival horror - to live or to die. But I don't see anywhere in the official tutorial or the FAQ that states that 'pipping is the winning condition' as claimed by some of you. In fact, in addition to what NuclearBurrito has already provided, the only thing about 'pip' I can find in an official capacity is that, "Emblems are a used as a system to evaluate your performance during a match and gives you pips in order to rank up." So Pip is simply an indicator of whether you were able to rank up or not (for matchmaking purposes), and not an indicator of your victory. In most games, you can perform really well, but sometimes still lose - I see DBD falling in the same category. I suspect that some of you just can't stand that.

    But I'd be happy to be proven wrong - from an official source. If you can't do that, perhaps you shouldn't be so driven to force your 'pipping is winning' condition to the rest of us. Afterall, even the game director has stated that, "One of the difficulties is that the game does not have a clear-cut win/lose condition" fairly recently in a Twitchcon 2018 interview.

    DbD isn't chest. I see it more as creating the story. The more you do, the better plays you make, the better the story is. It would be considered a "win" if you do a lot 'cause you're contributing to the "finale" and you won't "win" if you don't contribute to the end. When it comes to the "pipping = winning" mentality, it's about making the plays and doing what you can in the horror story so that what you do matters and it isn't just "they hid and therefore escaped" sort of scenario, though I do think it's still considered a win if you hid for most of the match and was able to get out? I haven't tried that tactic as I prefer a more active role, but getting out without being downed would be an iridescent and stealthing does count towards a pip now. I think what the game director was saying is that there's multiple ways to win, so there isn't a clear-cut win/lose condition.

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 861

    @knell said:
    When playing chess, it doesn't matter how many points I accumulate (based on the Reinfeld values) or whether I took twice as many pieces as my opponent - if the opponent places me in a checkmate in the end, I have to face the fact that I lost.

    When I play DBD, it doesn't matter how much points I accumulated by repairing generators, saving other survivors, or did well in a chase - if I die in the end, I lost. If I didn't, I win.

    If people want to believe that this horror/survival game is actually a point salad game, that's fine - they can minimax for points all they want if that's what they have fun doing. Different people, different strokes. I just prefer just enjoying the experience of survival horror - to live or to die. But I don't see anywhere in the official tutorial or the FAQ that states that 'pipping is the winning condition' as claimed by some of you. In fact, in addition to what NuclearBurrito has already provided, the only thing about 'pip' I can find in an official capacity is that, "Emblems are a used as a system to evaluate your performance during a match and gives you pips in order to rank up." So Pip is simply an indicator of whether you were able to rank up or not (for matchmaking purposes), and not an indicator of your victory. In most games, you can perform really well, but sometimes still lose - I see DBD falling in the same category. I suspect that some of you just can't stand that.

    But I'd be happy to be proven wrong - from an official source. If you can't do that, perhaps you shouldn't be so driven to force your 'pipping is winning' condition to the rest of us. Afterall, even the game director has stated that, "One of the difficulties is that the game does not have a clear-cut win/lose condition" fairly recently in a Twitchcon 2018 interview.

    The official source is that the game has multiple rewards and metrics that are not tied to what you guys are equating to a finish line: Blood points, emblems (and consequently pips,) daily challenges, personal improvement, and actually having fun are all separate from your oversimplification. You are welcome to hone in on a single true false statement as the entire core of the game. Others not sharing your opinion is arguably the only reason it hasn't died like many other games. If the only win condition you can possibly have involves a heavy amount of random chance, it will produce games that are impossible to win. In a game like chess, there is no randomness to movement patterns of other rules. There are no hidden abilities or the ability to bring extra pieces to the game. You also don't need to rely on sharing turns with up to three other players, nor having to go against 4 opponents simultaneously in real time. A structured game with no random element is the antithesis of an asymmetrical one that might as well be attached to a slot machine.

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