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Constructive Criticism of Legion changes

DocOctoberDocOctober Member Posts: 1,944

Since I'm getting criticised for only complaining, I'll phrase this as constructive criticism. Formatting is borrowed from @Kaalaxi

THE LEGION 

  • The Legion’s base movement speed is increased to 4.6m/s

Buff counter to 1, this one should be a no-brainer as that has been requested the most ever since the 2.4.0 PTB.

  • The Legion’s Terror Radius is increased to 32m. 

I see why this would be changed, considering that most 4.6m/s Killers have the larger TR, but in case of Legion, there should be a Freddy exception, because his biggest weakness is Survivors splitting up before he reaches them. So in that regard, I consider this a nerf. IMO, this should stay at 24 metres.

  • Most of The Legion’s Add-ons are rebalanced or reworked to account for the changes to Feral Frenzy and the Deep Wound status effect. 

We have next to no details on these changes and they can go completely either way. I think leaving those out was a big mistake, because these can make or break Legion.

Considering this, the two scenarios are that Legion becomes Add-on dependent (good Add-ons) or is remains mediocre (bad Add-ons). So nerf counter up to 2.

  • The Iridescent button Add-on no longer requires The Legion to apply Deep Wound for the effects to be active.

This may be a buff, and a good one, but it is to an Ultra Rare Add-on which are not sustainable for every-game use, so I'll leave the buff counter where it is at 1.

FERAL FRENZY UPDATE 

  • The recharge time of Feral Frenzy is increased and now requires a full power gauge to use it. Once it has been activated, the Legion must wait until the power gauge is full to be able to trigger the power again.

This change is too harsh with how Pallets stuns and missing a normal attack end Feral Frenzy or even reset the gauge, especially considering how the cool-down will take 20 seconds to fully recharge Frenzy.

  • The duration of Feral Frenzy is increased. The Legion spends longer in frenzy. 
  • The movement speed of Feral Frenzy is significantly reduced. The Legion moves faster than base speed while in frenzy, but not as fast as they did before. 

If you increase the time, yet significantly lower the speed, the end result will be close to the same or only moderately better depending on the ratios.

However, and here's the culprit, having Legion move significantly slower, means that Survivors have much more time to reach Jungle Gyms, Pallets and Vaults (or even Exit Gates), before Legion will close the distance between them.

With how abundant those are on the maps, it's quite fair to assume that more often than not, the Survivor will be in a safe spot, before Legion will have had a chance to apply Deep Wound. And the increased base speed of 4.6m/s, won't do him much good either with the Survivor in a safe spot as is evident with all other 4.6m/s M1 Killers. This will be especially true when you are supposed to catch up to other Survivors after a successful Frenzy hit.

So all in all, this will be a nerf, counter up to 3 (buffs still just at 1).

  • The Legion can no longer see blood pools (in addition to not seeing scratch marks) while in Feral Frenzy. 

No idea why that is here TBH. This change doesn't make sense.

  • Feral Frenzy is immediately and automatically cancelled whenever The Legion misses an attack while in frenzy.

With how easy it is to miss a swing or get Legion to miss one, this change is overcompensating for the 1 buff he currently got, more movement speed. I understand that this is to prevent Frenzy-hit-spamming, but that should have been solved differently.

DEEP WOUND UPDATE 

  • The Deep Wound timer pauses for survivors within The Killer's Terror Radius–regardless of whether they are in a chase or not.

I understand the need for this change, but combined with the other changes to Deep Wound, this makes Deep Wound utterly harmless. I see no scenario in which a Deep Wound Survivor will go down by themselves anymore unless they really screw up (and I don't think it's possible to screw up that badly by accident).

  • The Deep Wound timer pauses while Mending

See above.

  • The Killer does not see the Deep Wound timer progress–only the Deep Wound bar to know that Deep Wound has been applied. 

I don't have much to say about this change.

  • The Deep Wound timer progress is no longer reduced by regular Feral Frenzy attacks. 

This especially makes me question why you don't just get rid of Deep Wound. As I said, with all these changes, Deep Wound is harmless to Survivors and having an Add-on (not sustainable for every-game use) reinstate the old functionality is not a good enough compensation for this nerf.

Overall, I think you've shown that you are terribly afraid of giving Killers anything that might moderately buff them lately, the Plague changes from the PTB are another example of having slight buffs be overcompensated with moderate to considerable nerfs and I don't understand that practice. You're only driving Killers away from playing those characters, because they are not worth the effort you have to put into them. You're also killing Killer diversity with it, because there's no reason not to play the top Killers at this point.

Overall, I'm bitterly disappointed.

Tagged:

Comments

  • Hoodedfengm1nHoodedfengm1n Member Posts: 4,412

    The Blood pool disappearance in frenzy is due to Legions using it to get the "Deranged Pursuit" Achievement/Trophy, and making it easier to track a survivor in frenzy

  • EmealEmeal Member Posts: 190

    THIS, SOO MUCH THIS!

    • Readjust the Addon
    • Change Deep wound, make the deep wound longer and tick down way more slow so that Moonwalking would require more time, Allowing survivors to organize a rescue effort.
    • Give Feral Frenzy a great cost per attack in frenzy, make addons lower this cost.

    Such simple bug fixes would have made Legion WAY BETTER.

  • Chaotic_RiddleChaotic_Riddle Member Posts: 1,442

    @Hoodedfengm1n I've actually heard that the new Deranged Pursuit achievement will be reworked into making it easier. All you have to do is down someone who has the timer on them, not down them WITH feral frenzy. So, that's neat!


    In case of everything else @DocOctober , nice criticism as usual. I really hope we'll get to see the add-ons soon, I'm pretty excited to see if they did buff up those ol pins we never get to use.

  • Shad03Shad03 Member Posts: 3,453

    This is honestly the kind of criticism I want to see (I know my opinions on what you do or say aren't important, but I appreciate that you took some time to write this). I do agree with your points (I think everyone has the same views on where the devs messed up), so I have nothing to say about this.

  • PolarBearPolarBear Member Posts: 933

    Both of these points are from Peanits from another thread (https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/57975/these-changes-needs-to-go)

    • Although the speed is lower, Feral Frenzy is longer. Overall, you'll be able to much much further than you could before which will make it easier to hit multiple survivors.
    • If you miss an attack, your power will not be depleted, it will only cancel. For example, if you have 75% of your charge left, you will start recharging from that point. It does not go back down to zero just because you missed.


    Even if you miss an attack in frenzy you aren't punished too much since the power will recharge quite quickly. With the slower speed in Feral Frenzy you will still catch up to survivors and even if they make it to a window/pallet it won't matter most of the time. You can now bait the pallet easier since the power lasts longer and vaulting either one will still probably pause the feral frenzy meter.

  • DocOctoberDocOctober Member Posts: 1,944
    edited April 18

    Sorry, but no. What you and Peanits imagine may work out in Legion's favour in your ideal fairy tale versions of DbD, but it won't play out that way IRL.

  • RaptorrotasRaptorrotas Member Posts: 977

    I wonder how much they'll reduce frenzy speed, because it'd feel unlikely that they add more than 1,5 seconds to the duration.

    Also the slower the killer is during the speed burst, regardless of duration, the easier it is for survivors to still get away because theyll be moving away from the killer.

    Well 126% for 7 seconds seems plausible.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 4,209

    You still are forced to Mend before doing anything, so Deep Wound does have some value in the game. It's like Madness 3 but applied instantly instead of over time.

  • DocOctoberDocOctober Member Posts: 1,944

    Madness is stronger than Deep Wound and the Doctor does not have Legion's ridiculous cool-downs.

  • KaalaxiKaalaxi Member Posts: 195

    Overall, I think you've shown that you are terribly afraid of giving Killers anything that might moderately buff them lately, the Plague changes from the PTB are another example of having slight buffs be overcompensated with moderate to considerable nerfs and I don't understand that practice. You're only driving Killers away from playing those characters, because they are not worth the effort you have to put into them. You're also killing Killer diversity with it, because there's no reason not to play the top Killers at this point.

    I use to play Heroes of the Storm and they would consistently release heroes that we're too strong at release so people could have fun playing them and give the opponents a new challenge to overcome. Afterwards they always adjusted the power level of them. It's mostly a marketing tactic, who wouldn't want to buy a super strong new character? Of course everything has to be fair and take skill but strong isn't necessarily bad, weak definitely is.

    Legion definitely needs a lot more love than just band aid fixes because of how flawed they are.

    It's sad Legion is going to lose the high octane rush down feel like nurse and billy have. Seems like they're just joggers with masks and knifes now.. We'll see how it actually plays out though on the PTB.


    Cheers @DocOctober

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