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How to REALLY fix MoM while still retaining the core idea but balancing it for killers and survivors

MikeadatrixMikeadatrix Member Posts: 303
edited May 2 in General Discussions

Mettle of Man.

If you'd told me last year that another survivor perk would be added that became as controversial as DS, I would've shuddered in utter horror. But here we are. Honestly, MoM isn't as bad as DS was once upon a time but when a full SWF squad runs it, the hurt is real. People have come up with so many possible ways to fix it but let's be honest, the Killer mains want it removed entirely, the Survivor mains want it left alone, those in the middle have been trying to MacGyver together some super perk that can replace MoM's current effects but nothing seems to be sticking.

I've been thinking about solutions to the perks core problems for a while now and this is what I've come up with and been very satisfied with. It seems you need some credentials to suggest changes these days so I'll just say that I'm a red rank killer and survivor (Rank 3 and Rank 5, respectively) and I've been playing since DBD's initial release. So now onto the changes.

Two new prerequisites to the perk should be added to the previous prerequisites:

First, you MUST perform a Safe Unhook. Why? Ash canonically is a hero that always attempts to save his friends and have saved Kelly and Pablo multiple times during the show. The perk in-game should reflect that.

Next, you can only use the perk if no other survivor has activated it already. If another survivor has already activated their MoM and you are also running the perk, your perk deactivates entirely, and is useless for the rest of the game. So, yes, you can be one hit away, you've already gotten your Safe Unhook, but because the Killer decided to hit another survivor before you, the perk is toast. Why? As a killer, going against a SWF squad all running MoM and other second chance perks is the equivalent of getting your teeth pulled. This way, the killer has to deal with only one instance of MoM per game and if other survivors are running the perk, they have to make sure they use it wisely and quickly or they might lose it.

However, to balance the perk for all killers and not just M1 killers, ANY form of attack done to a survivor counts as one of the required three hits to charge up the perk. Plague will still be super powerful against MoM but that's just a part of how she is played, not her kit itself. Also, considering how the New Legion is encouraged to not frenzy one survivor over and over, charging up MoM quickly shouldn't be a problem. Plus, the two prerequisites I feel are intense enough to warrant this change without feeling biased to one side.

I hope you all can see how much time I've put into thinking about this silly perk from both sides. I hope both sides are able to look at what I've proposed and agree upon these potential changes.


TL;DR

You need to unhook a survivor safely once, if another survivor activates MoM before you activate yours you lose the perk for the game, and any attack done against you counts towards activating MoM.

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Comments

  • PoweasPoweas Member Posts: 4,590

    I won't paste my link to hijack your post.

    The rework could work, but outcry would be insane with this one. I don't think the devs would use it.

  • GrootDudeGrootDude Member, Trusted Posts: 9,261

    People wouldn’t be happy if they couldn’t use a perk ‘cause someone else used it. Safe unhooks are easy to get so honestly it would be easier to get than it is now.

  • MikeadatrixMikeadatrix Member Posts: 303
    edited May 2

    Ah, yeah, I've seen your rework suggestion. Two bodyblocking hits is a decent idea but that still doesn't fix the point of how SWF teams can abuse the hell out of it. Safe Unhook and no previous uses is my way of fixing that.

  • pemberleypemberley Member Posts: 1,012

    I could live with that.

  • MikeadatrixMikeadatrix Member Posts: 303

    That's how DS was after they tried to fix it the first time but then it became so that there's a chance DS could activate if your not the obsession. It just made the feeling of losing a survivor to DS that much worse.

  • MikeadatrixMikeadatrix Member Posts: 303

    One of the reasons why you have to make an effort to use it during the game and not just save it towards the end. It adds incentive to actually use the perk and not waste it.

  • SlinkyJinkySlinkyJinky Member Posts: 371
    edited May 2

    @Mikeadatrix"If another survivor has already activated their MoM and you are also running the perk, your perk deactivates entirely, and is useless for the rest of the game. "

    As MoM is a powerful skill I'd support this if we could get some symmetry on some of the Killers more powerful skills, especially seeing as you cant actually use MoM indefinitely like you can with these:

    BBQC: Once you hook your Obsession for the first time you see all other Survivors auras within range as a one off. The perk is then de-activated for the rest of the game.

    Ruin: (Is now a Perk, not a Hex Totem) Once the first Generator is repaired all other Generators Ruin effects are removed and Ruin is de-activated for the rest of the game.

  • MikeadatrixMikeadatrix Member Posts: 303

    The way I liken my proposed changes is to Devour Hope. Totem goes down, that's it, it's over. Survivors don't have any perks that operate that way and considering how powerful MoM is, I justify my changes.

  • MiloMilo Member Posts: 3,964

    @Mikeadatrix Delivarence?

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 3,459

    What if the activation requirement was "2 hits without being downed"?

  • ShaderzShaderz Member Posts: 26

    This perk is even worse than DS because DS still had a counterplay and this perk doesn't and it severely punishes killers for doing their job.

    I can't stand this perk and it's super annoying so I simply DC everytime I chase a survivor, hit him and find out he has MoM. I honestly can't stand survivors who are pure trash but still survive because they rely on 2nd chance perks.

  • MiloMilo Member Posts: 3,964

    @Shaderz I mean if they are trash survivors then the chase should last 10 seconds more... DC'ing and losing BP after that long seems really unneccesery

  • CorianderCoriander Member Posts: 866

    It grants an extra hit, as a surprise. It's powerful, yes, but only when used for saves at the end. The times I've seen people take another hit and get downed almost immediately are far, far more common than someone getting out of a gate. I'm not saying it isn't a problem, and when all four are running this it's almost a cakewalk; not fun. I strongly disagree it should be limited just to one person, though. That's unfair to everyone, especially solo players.

  • ShaderzShaderz Member Posts: 26
    edited May 2

    It's not unnecessary. I'd rather lose points than GIVE them points for overusing the [BAD WORD] out of a crutch perk. You don't need to be overly good to defeat killers at chases. Just use dead hard, adrenaline, mettle of man and decisive-strike and have like a full team with similar perks and you'll see the struggle it is when you're about to hit that guy you've been chasing for so long due to these 2nd chance perks but you're faced with that survivor given YET another opportunity to escape the killer.

    I wonder why there aren't similar perks for killers. Perks that grant the killer a second chance too, or higher chances of winning/balancing the match itself. Perks like "after a generator is done, all survivors suffer from the exposed status for X time" or "1/2 random generators are given the "fake" status, so when they are completed, the repair bar returns to zero and survivors cannot complete that gen, with the same amount of gens to be repaired remaining the same" or "after being in a chase for X time, you don't lose any bloodlust, regardless if you destroy a pallet", perks that are as overpowered as MoM.

    MoM is a perfect example of what's wrong with this game. The killer is punished for doing his job and survivors are rewarded with chances after chances.

  • ArrozArroz Member Posts: 1,434

    When devs balance mori we can take your idea

  • MikeadatrixMikeadatrix Member Posts: 303

    Same concept, extra steps for balance. Like I said, Killers hate this perk and Survivors love it. I hoped people would realize that this is way to take this perk down a notch but still make it enjoyable for survivors.

  • ba_tetsuoba_tetsuo Member Posts: 253

    Honestly, for awhile I've had the thought that the swf shouldn't be able to double up on any perk. Don't let them queue up with the same perks, and don't let them swap perks after they find a lobby

  • MiloMilo Member Posts: 3,964

    @Shaderz i won't be like MoM doesn't need changes (because it does) but doesn't NOED punish survivors for doing their MAIN objective (totems are basically side objectives let's be real)

    Just the diffrence is that Killer cannot avoid it. (which again MoM needs a change)

  • SlinkyJinkySlinkyJinky Member Posts: 371

    When MoM is inevitably nerfed people will just go back to using better perks. And there -are- better perks, Killers just don't notice them because they don't affect them directly they go sliding blissfully under the radar.

  • ba_tetsuoba_tetsuo Member Posts: 253

    See, I think there in lies the problem.There's virtually no oft-used perk that survivors can't counter in some form or fashion. How many popular ones are there that killer can counter?

  • MiloMilo Member Posts: 3,964

    @ba_tetsuo

    BT, Dead Hard, Head On, DS, Buckle Up, Flip Flop, Unbreakable.

  • ShaderzShaderz Member Posts: 26

    It does and it needs to be nerfed if not completely removed, in my opinion. But if perks like MoM or DS are going to remain in the game the way they are right now, then NOED should stay too.

  • DragonredkingDragonredking Member Posts: 848

    They won't do your second proposition, survivor that use MoM will complain and even if they tested it they won't push it on live because it is not "fun" for survivor to have a perk they can't activate if other survivor use it

    It the exact same reason why they didn't make ds exclusif to the obsesion despite the fact it would have make sense and would have dealt with the main concern of killer aka multiple ds by match

  • DragonredkingDragonredking Member Posts: 848

    No, it doesn't punish them for doing their main objectif, it punish them for ignoring their side objectif

  • MiloMilo Member Posts: 3,964

    @Shaderz I doubt that a perk is gonna get removed. It can get a complete rework but not be removed. Also you saying the current DS is broken?

    @Dragonredking Fair.

  • Hag.is.DtierHag.is.Dtier Member Posts: 316

    This rework sounds like a big nerf to Huntress, a killer who has enough weaknesses and is very dependent on maps. Hatchets counting as stacks to MoM will make her complete garbage.

  • ShaderzShaderz Member Posts: 26

    In my opinion, all toxic survivor and killer perks need to be removed. You can't vouch for a clean and friendly community and at the same time successively keep adding toxic perks. That's just hypocritical. Not adding anything is a lot better than adding things that will not only break the balance of the game but ruin it too.

    DS isn't as broken as it was, that's a fact. It's a lot better than it was before but it's still slightly broken and I'm afraid it wasn't sufficiently nerfed. I'd say it needs to be reworked so the 60-second timer only activates if the killer is within your terror radius, so it ACTUALLY can help survivors in the event they're being tunneled.

    Then again, I'd love to have it removed instead because it's still a toxic perk. But since I know it won't happen, that is what I suggest.

  • MiloMilo Member Posts: 3,964

    @Shaderz Btw can i know what perks you consider toxic for both sides? I'm just curious

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