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From killer to killers - about ruin

HazeHoundHazeHound Member Posts: 662
edited May 13 in General Discussions

Hello fellow servants of The Entity. I see a lot of people overrating Hex:Ruin. Don't get me wrong, it is the best perk to directly slow generator repairs... but it is still very bad and inefficient perk. Why?

Ruin relies on skillchecks which are rng. I had multiple instances of generators that didn't generate a single one. Good survivors can hit greats. Which means it only prevents bonuses on greats if you are facing good survivors.

Ruin is hex perk, it can be found instantly or never. Good survivors will not waste time looking for it and just genrush through it. If you also run noed you have 1 totem less for it.

Do you see where i go here? When ruin is needed (against good survivors) it has no effects, because its just completely 'avoidable', so you play with only 3 perks against good players. When you don't need (against potatoes) you... well... don't need it. It actually helps players to learn hitting those great skillchecks, which results in faster progression on everything.

What are the alternatives? Whispers, discordance, surveilence, knockout, sloppy butcher, devour hope and noed. Use one of those instead of ruin and you will improve.

Yes, improve as killer, and here is why. Lack of ruin makes games of various ranks go similiar. Killer either applies enough pressure to slow the game or gets genrushed. With ruin on, you will get through many trials with ease, but then face a wall of genrush. As i stated before, ruin only works against bad survivors. If you play without it on lower ranks you naturally learn how to apply pressure without it so you won't get bullied on higher ranks. Knowing when to sacrifice a generator, abandon chase or slug is the key, one cannot just do those randomly and hope for best.

I know that i am messy writter so feel free to ama really.

Edit: Remember that game was, is and always will be unbalanced in favor of survivors, don't get mad/discouraged by bad games (especially against swf) and have fun, its a video game :). No risk = no gain.

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Comments

  • HazeHoundHazeHound Member Posts: 662
    edited May 13

    @TreemanXD If you can't hit greats, you should try everytime, so you learn. If hit good just wait 3 seconds and keep repairing.

    Toth and ruin. Nurse doesn't need any perks really, but its just playing without 2 perks, which could be bbq, m&a, nurses, bloodhound or iron maiden which turn nurse into beast. Of course keep playing as you enjoy and as works for you, but against good surv its -2 perks basically. In time when you needed them.

    Discordance is there to let you know about last gen popping or proovethyself, while noed is there to punish genrush/ignoring totems and nothing more really.

  • GrootDudeGrootDude Member Posts: 7,990

    @HazeHound my problem is eye to had coordination and I’m not the only survivor like this. I like using ruin, TOTH, BBQ&C and nurses on my nurse.

    I run stake out since skill checks will never be easy (for me).

  • HazeHoundHazeHound Member Posts: 662

    @TreemanXD See? Survivors don't even need to be good as there are perks for it. Stake out, this is not happening and technician.

    If you havent try m&a and nurses together, try it, its hell of a fun. Healing aura outside terror radius :D.

    Have fun hunting, with or without ruin.

  • BossBoss Member Posts: 5,414

    I never felt a NEED to run it.

    My game's are fine outside of genrush + efficient loopers.

  • FrozenscumFrozenscum Member Posts: 393

    I've said numerous times already - Ruin is bad perk. I dont run it as Killer even at low map pressure ones, cause they have standart mobility and in most cases I will end up with 3 perks after 1 minute of match since I cant even reach it before it gets destroyed.

    Take Thanatophobia/PGTW/Sloppy/Franklin's/Nurses/whatever else and you will have more benefit.

  • KiskashiKiskashi Member Posts: 1,032
    edited May 14

    I use discordance personally (+ thanatophobia for slowing), I find it is a good way to know if I should drop a chase to protect a problematic gen. Doesn't help when they get smart and realise you have it though, encourages splitting (which can be worse to have 3 gens to defend vs. 1 they're all rushing) and forces me to corral to a certain side of the map as I play a low mobility killer most times (mikey) I'll continue with it though because there's nothing sweeter than a 3 person gen and throwing EW3 in there.

    Ruin is too situational for me, they'll likely cleanse it, it's subject to totem spawns which are terrible, survivors instantly know you have it (unlike H:DH which is the only hex I use because it's rarely given away early) and some survivors can power through it. I've heard PGTW/overcharge is better though. (but overcharge falls victim to skill check viability too)

    Also as a survivor I've started running stake out so ruin becomes even more of a joke. I'm interested to see some killers on here that think ruin is necessary, I just find it's not a good use of a perk slot, but interesting discussion.

  • ZagridZagrid Member Posts: 479

    I mean I could just learn nurse if I wanted to win everygame without ruin. But sometimes I like to do well and not get genrushed for playing a non Nurse character.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 3,615
    edited May 14

    Ruin isn't great. It's just way, way better than anything we have available. The difference with and without Ruin is astronomical. Even with all its downsides you mention it is still way better than any of the other options. Even half those other options you list don't really slow the game down almost at all and aren't really a choice.

  • BossBoss Member Posts: 5,414

    Reason why there's not many good others is more than likely cause they're afraid of a powerful combination with Ruin.

  • CallMeRusty420CallMeRusty420 Member Posts: 615

    Corrupt Intervention is way better than Ruin because...

    1. Blocks the farthest gens from the survivors rushing them
    2. Isn't a Hex perk that can be taken out in 30 seconds
    3. Lasts for a solid 2 minutes
  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 3,615

    "Blocks the farthest gens from the survivors rushing them"

    Irrelevant

    "Isn't a Hex perk that can be taken out in 30 seconds"

    Because it essentially cleanses itself

    "Lasts for a solid 2 minutes"

    Which makes the perk trash. Rank 1 survivors that aren't [BAD WORD] will just sit back, not touch a gen and wait for the timer to end. Now it was a completely wasted perk slot. Those 2minutes isn't even time gained because you aren't getting a chase. It is literally just changing when the game starts and essentially just sitting everyone in a map afk for 2minutes.

  • LCGasterLCGaster Member Posts: 2,630

    I reached Rank 1 without using Ruin except for Hag (I didn't level her up enough to unlock it).

    It's not necessary, but it's useful to waste some time.

  • ZarathosZarathos Member Posts: 844

    So lets get something straight about ruin. At the start of a trial you as a killer are behind the map is at max pallet amount and you need pressure immediatly.

    Ruin at worst reduces all great skill check progress to 0% from what 3% to 5% per great skill check on a gen. If they misss the odd skill check you get a decent regression bonus and briefly stuned gen progress.

    This requires no killer interaction meaning a weak opening chase isnt going to cost you 3 gens. Ruin can be destroyed which indeed suck but it also makes it an asset. It can bait survivours there giving you an immediate chase.

    Ruin is a baseline perk that ensures games dont end fast early on if you mess up no other perk for killer does this. Four hands on gens start of the game your one killer who has limited slow down.

    RUIN IS MANADATORY. Otherwise you risk losing the game with a weak start.

  • gantesgantes Member Posts: 851

    It's not necessary, but if you don't have it the game is even more snowball reliant.

    If survivors are playing optimally, you need a truck load of momentum and you also need to not lose a single inch of that momentum if you want a really good game.

    With ruin, you don't need that as much.

  • Mr_KMr_K Member Posts: 162

    Ruin trains survivors to hit greats. Overall it will make gens faster.

  • PoweasPoweas Member Posts: 4,490

    Ruin is trash, Surveillance is better.

  • GrootDudeGrootDude Member Posts: 7,990

    @Poweas once I get surveillance I’ll try it. I still gotta save up 1mil bp to P1 her.

  • MushwinMushwin Member Posts: 2,100

    there is no longer point in ruin, survs just bypass it....we dont even hunt for it anyonre

  • HazeHoundHazeHound Member Posts: 662
    edited May 14

    You guys have valid points, but ruin doesn't slow the game when killers need it (against good, efficient survivors). Just watch TheEntityLeftHand how he keeps survivors busy without ruin (when he is not memeing with wievers that is... xD).

    Edit: Of course, if there is even one bad survivor in game it is kinda worth it, but i hope you get what am i trying to state here.

  • VetratheneVetrathene Member Posts: 118

    This is it exactly, its the best we have and its not even that good, while survivors have a plethora of very strong perks that can be stacked together and placed on all 4 of them. And with the terrible map design combined with that AND adding SWF potentially on top of that, the odds are so stacked against killers. The devs just need some actualy competition and they will either finally be forced to balance the game or let it die. I hope Hide or Die is that game, but I've been let down before.

  • HazeHoundHazeHound Member Posts: 662
    edited May 15

    @Vetrathene I hear you man, and these are my thoughts exactly.

    But the game is in the best spot it have ever been: no vacuum, ds doesn't break game anymore, hatch standoffs removed, end game fixed and not punishing normal survivors. For this i am glad as heck!

    But there are 2 map offerings that are just broken, haddonfield and crotus prenn. Every map of those 3 is literally infinite looping with some skill and balanced landing which is a shame. There should be one map on every realm designed in favour of survivors and one map designed in favour of killers, so you can't just burn map offering, take perk and be untouchable. I'm looking at you too, mirror Myers on Lery's and hex Doc on The Game.

    Best realm is Trappers Estate. Many maps easy for survivors but there is possibility of getting shelter woods which is one of best killer maps. Every realm should be like this.

    Also swf should be shown to killers so they can take better crap against them and not bully 4 randos with random iridescents.

  • fluffybunnyfluffybunny Member Posts: 2,161
    edited May 15

    Ruin is really strong if they fail to find it and it's more of an issue for good to average survivors (if you use it on bad survivors, you're just cruel). If you get really good gen jockeys, they'll be able to hit all of the greats, though a lot of them rely heavily on stealth and aren't too good with chases. Even if they hit all the 'greats,' they're doing the gen slower.

    It actually helps players to learn hitting those great skillchecks, which results in faster progression on everything.

    You make a good point with this, though.

    What are the alternatives? Whispers, discordance, surveilence, knockout, sloppy butcher, devour hope and noed. Use one of those instead of ruin and you will improve.

    You forgot Corrupt Intervention, Thanta, and overcharge. I wouldn't consider Whispers, Surveillance or NOED something that affects in-game pressure, either, or generators.

    With ruin on, you will get through many trials with ease, but then face a wall of genrush.

    Higher ranked survivors are more likely to adapt and you do make a good possibility, though a lot of really good killers use Ruin and it's more to just slow the game down than anything else. Getting better at playing killer is something that comes with time and practice.

    I think my least favorite part of Ruin is that it's a Hex perk. It's completely unreliable whether it will help you throughout the match or get cleansed at the start (unless you bring TotH). I think different perks can benefit differently killers differently.

  • VetratheneVetrathene Member Posts: 118

    I agree the SWF group(s) should be shown to the killer in the lobby.

  • DenimChickenDenimChicken Member Posts: 111

    I notice if survivors can't hit skill checks they just Gen tap. It looks funny watching them do it. My experience with ruin has led me not to use it much mainly due to Spawn locations. Most good survivors know what locations to check on most maps and swf 4 man all 4 know where it is when one finds it.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 4,806

    IMO Thana + Sloppy is more powerful than Ruin and will actually slow down the game against good survivors. Good survivors tend to not heal and just gen rush, which Thana punishes, while Sloppy punishes them for healing, so it's a catch 22. Either way they are wasting time.

    The catch is that it's a combo instead of a single perk, and requires you to actively hit multiple survivors. Also with the recent (and unnecessary) Thana nerf it's less effective than before.

  • ZarathosZarathos Member Posts: 844
    edited May 15

    Since no one seems to fully grasp this ill remind you all. Ruin make survivours get zero gen bonus progression from hitting greats. That is actually insanely powerful.

    Doing the math on gens. It requires 80 seconds to finish a gen. 5% bonus progression awarded per successful great. This means for each great survivours hit they take 4 seconds off the required time to complete the gen.

    Bare in mind toolboxes increase the frequency of skill checks which means ruin also negate frequent toolbox great skill check progression thus dramtically reducing progression.

    Compare that with thatnatophobia and other perks and pop goes the weasel and you will see mathematicaly ruin is undeniably the best stall perk in the game.

    As killer ruin is the best stall perk because your role as killer is to snowball and reduce survivour defenses thus halting progression.

    Other stall perks have no opening game effects so by not equiping ruin your likely relinquishing at least 2 gens worth of progress in the opening chase. Due to the map having max pallets in play and all other stall perks requiring set up or awkward conditions.

    The only immediate early game stall is corrupt intervention which i admit is very good with trap killers who want survivours moving towards trapped areas.

    However ruin is the superior option for general killer gameplay. Next time you start thinking ruin is crap imagine the gen your next to having 8 additional seconds of time put in and ask yourself would that have made a difference.

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