Nos37Nos37 Member Posts: 482
edited May 15 in Balance Feedback

I Sabotage three hooks, a survivor is on a 4th nearby hook, I run to the corner before being downed, I have Boil Over III, and I STILL GET HOOKED (the killer didn't even have Iron Grasp or Agitation equipped)!!!

Hypocrite killers whining about survivors having too many second chances while they have 3,000 hooks on every. single. tile.


  • IhatelifeIhatelife Member Posts: 2,567


  • SkarkioSkarkio Member Posts: 336


  • pandorayrpandorayr Member Posts: 329

    another troll

  • Frugl1Frugl1 Member Posts: 44

    Problem is that the killer spends way too much time in a chase for it to be a waste. It would put even more game control in the hand of SWF stacks, which is the last thing this game needs. Saboing would be fine if a wiggle-out at the start of the game did not cost the killer 2-3 gens.

  • gantesgantes Member Posts: 606

    Sabotaging is a gimmicky and problematic playstyle that has to be kept weak for game health reasons. If it gets strong, it warps the game around itself way too much.

    Hooks as a core resource don't work.

    Hope that solves your problem.

  • Tru3LemonTru3Lemon Member Posts: 1,187

    theres some hooks that are very close each other

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 3,614

    Here's the deal, I'll trade you less hooks for less pallets and windows. Deal?

  • Mister_xDMister_xD Member Posts: 2,123


  • TragicSolitudeTragicSolitude Member Posts: 398

    The killer is supposed to hook survivors, just like survivors are supposed to fix generators. What if the killer could temporarily destroy all but one generator? Would that be fair? With only basement hooks the killer would end up slugging all the survivors and watching them bleed out, just like with only one gen the survivors would immerse around the map and drag out the match forever.

    Not to mention, the killer already has four survivors and seven gens to manage, and with pallets and windows and perks one survivor can extend a chase long enough for the other survivors to finish one gen each, meaning it's possible for three gens to pop in the first 80 seconds of the match without the killer having gotten a single hook, yet, and there are four survivors who take at least two M1 hits to down and could need as many as three hookings each. And we should add not even being able to reach hooks after winning a chase on top of all that? You know the killer isn't an NPC, right?

  • Kind_LemonKind_Lemon Member Posts: 538

    It's not so much that there are too many hooks, it's that

    1) sabotaging and planning for sabotage takes too much time in a solo match compared to rushing generators.

    2) There are not enough "bad" hook locations for survivors to force killers to use through sabotage

    3) Killers' carrying speeds are too fast and the time to wiggle out is too short, resulting in slugging or pitiful returns in terms of wasted killer time compared to the time spent sabotaging.

    4) All hooks respawn no matter their location or positioning as a band-aid fix to a broken mechanic. This is the real **** you to survivors.

    5) Hook max and min limits are terrible. Sometimes only one hook will spawn on an entire side of the map while the other side is chock-full.

    Sabotaging should result in forcing a killer into playing on a less favorable part of the map and cause the killer to waste more time in the carry and hook phases. It should not be giving survivors more chances to free themselves and it should not incite slugging because the dying state is minimal in design.

    In other words: AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

  • anarchy753anarchy753 Member Posts: 544

    Saboutage is just a really terrible mechanic overall. It really doesn't fit the whole point of the game.

    If you make it strong, it just breaks the game. What's the point in playing killer if every time you win a chase you just have to drop the survivor because a survivor pressed M1 and prevents your objective. It would be like if a killer kicked you gen it just wouldn't be able to be worked on for 4 minutes.

    That's why it feels so mediocre, because it HAS to or it's just a way to permanently deny the killer's objective, progression and points.

    The way people talk here they seem to think it's reasonable to just have a mechanic that takes away all the hooks on huge sections of the map so they become unkillable and and can [BAD WORD] with the killer however they like and there's no chance they'll ever be hooked, just for M1ing at like 5 hooks for 20 seconds each.

  • ReikoMoriReikoMori Member Posts: 1,113

    Well the reason hooks repair themselves from sabo is because survivors brought the game to its knees when sabo was permanent. The slugging concept was invented as a response to the fact you couldn't do anything else with survivors at that point. We used to dread playing a trial and finding broken hooks back then. Honestly, it is a playstyle that hasn't aged well because it is an all or nothing strategy. Everyone has to commit to 99% hooks or the attempt is wasted.

    Now it takes a whole team picking a corner with the most gens constantly cycling between hooks and gens. Even then if one or two of you get slugged then the strat is dead in the water.

  • Kind_LemonKind_Lemon Member Posts: 538

    The concept behind Sabotage completely fits into the game. It's a way in a game where the killers and the maps decide where survivors must go to be altruistic for a survivor to push back and challenge a killer's authority. Survivors have no other means to change the location of interaction between killers and survivors other than Sprint Burst (which is why it was so popular), and calculated generator completion. The objectives are stationary, and the killer has far more liberty to decide where to hook survivors than do survivors which gens to complete. However, because of extended chases, survivors can often prevent a killer from having this core ability.

    Sabotage was a fine idea but was not changed properly along with the other aspects of the game. Window looping? Entity blockers. Maybe not the best solution, but it works. The tactic is still useable but not abusable. However, when the developers realized the downfall of sabotage (it led to killers not having anywhere to hook survivors), they decided to remove the entire mechanic by pretending that sabotaged hooks never were sabotaged. The developers could have made it so that a hook could not be sabotaged if there was no other hook within X meters or that hooks required manual attention from killers to respawn. None of that happened, and that's why we are here today with an extremely unsatisfactory sabotage mechanic.

    Don't disregard sabotage as a bad idea, think of the implementations and fixes as bad ideas.

  • anarchy753anarchy753 Member Posts: 544

    That's the thing, there isn't a good balance in being able to completely deny a team's only objective.

    Your suggestion is to change the range. There's a very fine line of ranges, make it too big and you can't sab many hooks making it unfulfilling anyway. Make it too small and you get the same issue of being able to sab most hooks on the map. Many maps already have difficulty spawning hooks, especially those like the game with vertical distance issues.

    It's a really problematic mechanic because it's INCREDIBLY unfun to have broken hooks. Basically you succeed at everything you can in the match and you just don't have any way to actually score a point. It's also incredibly unfun to get slugged BECAUSE the killer can't hook anyone.

    Saboutage isn't a minor setback, it's like getting old DSed every single time you go for a hook. Toolboxes can do it tonnes of times and Sabouteur is infinite. If well coordinated it just guarantees a win with no counterplay, or a slow boring death that gets minimal points for both teams.

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