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Massive List of Killer Perk Changes

BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 2,701
edited May 17 in General Discussions

These are many changes to killer perks that I believe would make them much more viable than they currently are. Note that this does NOT mean survivor perks do not need changes. There are many, many survivor perks that desperately need changes as well. This will simply be a separate post coming later for those and this one will be for the killer perks. I will also be editing this post as we go. In light of that, if you disagree with certain perks please include you reasoning as to why so that we can discuss. Thanks and let's keep this civil.

@Peanits @not_Queen @Patricia

I am basing these changes on playing both sides at rank 1 on every reset with 3k+ hours of play time.


For starters, let's look at all the TR perks like Coulrophobia for example but there are many others as well.

The issue with these TR perks is that you don't reliably keep survivors in your TR long enough for it to matter. Like only an idiot is gonna sit there and heal through Coulrophobia and it only takes a second to step out.

What those perks need is the exact same treatment that the survivor radius perks received. They need to persist for like 15 seconds after leaving the killers TR. This change would make them much more reliable and improve their consistency which is what they are lacking.

Infectious Fright - needs to show auras, not just a location ping. A ping isn't worth much in almost all scenarios. Essentially a lot of perks need to be made less situational or VERY strong when those situations do arise. Most the situational perks we have are just OKAY when they work which shouldn't be the case if they are indeed that situational.

Dark Devotion - needs to last at least 10 seconds longer and shouldn't even have a cooldown. It only works on obsession hits and you are giving up all you pressure by letting the obsession go to HOPE you happen to find someone else. Even with these changes it still wouldn't be ran that much but at least then it might fit into a few builds.

Hex: Lullaby - The perk will work similar to Hex: Haunted Ground in that it's a trap perk. One totem will be lit at the start of the round for Hex: Lullaby but the perk will not activate unless the totem is cleansed. Upon being cleansed the perk will now be permanently active for the rest of the round and will start gaining tokens on each hook. Note that hooks prior to it being activated do not count. Starts at 1 token upon activation.

Blood Warden - Now that we have the EGC this should block the exit gate switches instead of the gate itself. It should also refresh in its duration by 30 seconds for any additional hooks. Since this is before the gates are powered the EGC timer wouldn't have started yet so the survivors aren't on the clock. This is another one of those HIGHLY situation perks that is currently just OKAY when it even happens to work. This change is to make it actually very strong when it does work while keeping it quite situational.

Hex: The Third Seal - On top of its current affect, also make it hide ALL progress bars and item charges remaining. This would include things like gen progress bars, healing, totem cleanse, mending, snap out of it, how many charges are left on medkits and toolboxes etc etc. So for an example they may be able to tell how close the gen is to finishing based on its sounds and visuals, but just not actually see the bar itself.

Iron Maiden - should show aura, not location ping for 4 seconds and Exposed for 60 seconds. As soon as they get in a locker even 1 time they are never using them again after they see the debuff, much less the rarity that people actually use lockers to even begin with. This makes the perk highly situational and very easily countered which means it should be extremely strong when it does activate.

Mad Grit - should 1 hit down while carrying a survivor. This perk is currently highly situational and extremely minimal payoff. Not to mention as soon as you down even 1 survivor with this they are never doing it again that game which makes it still weaker than a lot of other perks we currently have so this should be fine.

Pop Goes The Weasel - Just remove the timer

Lightborn - along with its current effect should blind the survivor if they hit you with it well enough that it would've blinded a killer not using Lightborn. Makes it kind of a surprise throw back at them.

Spies from the Shadows - effect should be map wide. Its current radius isn't worth using over any other finding perks.

Beast of Prey - Get rid of the whole gimmicky bloodlust effect. After being in a chase for 10 seconds your red stain is invisible until you leave chase. The red stain removal will persist for 5 seconds after ending a chase and restarting a chase during that 5 second window will refresh it. This is to counter the buggy end chase/start chase we can have happen during looping. The time before activation may need to be a little longer but you get the idea.

Shadowborn - is currently just overshadowed by MnA. I''d like to add an effect that makes it slightly quiet your killer sounds. This includes the killer breathing, footsteps and just idle sounds many of them make. Just slightly to make you better at mind games.

Thanataphobia - needs to include dead, sacrificed and dc'd survivors. Larger numbers as well, but not affect healing.

Corrupt Intervention - looks good on paper but doesn't pan out how it looks. Good survivors just wait out the duration without doing anything and essentially just delay the games start by 2 minutes. The new effect would be 10%/15%/20% repair penalty for the first 2 minutes of the trial and while blocking the furthest progressed generator for 60 seconds, upon hooking a survivor.

Fire Up - simply needs its numbers increased.

Stridor - used to be great but has never quite got back to where it used to be after the games sound changes. Increase its effectiveness to how it used to be.

Predator - should also make walking and running footsteps slightly louder.

Overwhelming Presence - along with the TR perk changes I mentioned at the beginning of this post it should also make survivor items within the killers TR just passively and slowly lose charges even when not being used. Note this will be MUCH slower than the high charge loss given whille using the item in the killers TR.

Unnerving Presence - needs its increased skill check chance increased.

Hex: Haunted Ground - just needs the second lit totem to not be deactivated after the first one gets broken. This makes cleansing totems a little more dangerous. Just 1 charge where you can't control when or even if its broken is a little too situational. This will just give it 2 charges to be activated, IF the survivors even choose to do so.

Monstrous Shrine - Remove its current effect as it's even sometimes a negative. Make it so hooking someone in the basement causes 3 random gens to become blocked off for 30 seconds by the entity and begin regressing as if they'd been kicked. The auras of the blocked gens will be shown to the killer for the duration.

Remember Me - needs to have each hit on the obsession increase gate opening time by 8 seconds up to a maximum of 32 increased seconds. This is a highly situational perk that very rarely pays off and should be very strong when it does come into play. You are giving up an entire perk slot already all game AND you have to actually happen to hit your obsession multiple times. Note that this will not take affect during EGC when there is only 1 survivor left alive.

NOED - A highly controversial perk. First things first, I do not think this perk is OP at all as it is very easily countered. My point in changing it is because I think it's unhealthy for the game and rewards killers not for playing good but rewards them just because the survivors got lazy. I want it to reward skilled play. My change is that if the gates are powered and not all totems were cleansed that 3 random gens will reactivate. Basically making the survivors do just 1 more gen. This gives the killer more time to make SKILLED plays but yet not just free downs. Will only trigger if 3 or more survivors are still alive when the gates are powered.

Tinkerer - Make it activate at 75% and last 20 seconds.

Territorial Imperative - Remove the cooldown and make it reduce the killers TR to 0 for 20 seconds.

Hangman's Trick - Instead of a notification ping make it show auras of survivors that are sabo'ing hooks,sabo'ing bear traps, disarming traps and opening chests.

Hex:Thrill of the Hunt - Don't make it a hex perk. Just keep the effect of it weakening for the more totems you cleanse. This will encourage survivors to cleanse other totems first if the killer is guarding his Hex.

Dying Light - I'd like this to debuff the survivors for 60 seconds after the obsession is taken off the hook. Note that if the obsession is put back on the hook before the 60 debuff has finished, it will end the debuff immediately. This makes it a more reliable slow down perk, while promoting "fun" game play.

Brutal Strength - Kicked gens will regress 50% faster

Unrelenting - Along with maintaining the reduced cooldown on missed hits, it would also heavily reduce the move speed penalty during recovery for missed AND landed hits ( The survivor would still be getting the speed boost ). This is to essentially just lesson the distance gained by the survivor after missing or landing a hit.

Post edited by Blueberry on
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Comments

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 2,701

    Even after the nerf reverted it's still quite weak. It needed a buff even in its previous state. Have you really had the perk effect you seriously as the last survivor a lot? I havn't even seen 1 person use the perk in months and I play a lot.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 2,701
    edited May 15

    "I think the suggested NoED change would be too strong - when would you ever not run that? Like, what other 4 perks would you choose over running that?"

    Lots of things. If you literally just cleanse all the totems is does nothing and is an empty perk slot. How would that be too strong? 1 extra gen is a lot more manageable than 1 hit downs. It's also pretty unanimously agreed by the community that killers don't have enough time and that perk is simply giving them some more time so it shouldn't really be an issue.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 2,701
    edited May 15

    "It's basically "cleanse all totems or you have to do an extra gen"?"

    Correct. There isn't a cleanse after.

    "Could you list those things? 'cause it's mathematically better than Ruin, and any situation where you'd lose Ruin you'd also lose NoED."

    Ruin isn't even that good, it's just the best slow down perk killers happen to have. I don't see it being better than Ruin as an issue. You could have your Ruin cleansed but the survivors still not cleanse all totems and NOED activate.

    I didn't list them specifically because "when would you ever not run that?" is extremely vague. Maybe I'd run things like BBQ, NC, or Discordance for added mid game pressure rather that a gamble of a slow down at end game because after all that's HOPING they don't cleanse it. It's a risk you choose to take.

  • BossBoss Member Posts: 4,295

    I disagree with Pop Goes The Weasel.

    Not that it should be Token based, but that you said enough.

    Because what i imagine could very well differ from what you imagine.

  • tt_ivi_99tt_ivi_99 Member Posts: 1,232

    I would add:

    - Thanatophobia: Bigger numbers.

    - Shadowborn: Once a survivor has been standing still for 3 seconds his aura will be shown to the killer until the survivor moves. It doesnt work with actions, it's just like the AFK alert (RIP Claudette)

    - Bloodwarden: Being able to be activated more than once would make the perk broken because of the EGC. Instead, make It so that if you hook someone when all the gens are powered, the perk will block the doors the second they get opened. This way survivors will always find at least 1 door blocked and they have to open them soon and work against the EGC timer to save their hooked teammate.

    Everything else is great!!!

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 2,701

    I wasn't really being that specific with it, meaning just the general idea of a token system. So even if we each have slightly different versions of what each of us would mean by a token system it would still be generally an agreement. The specific details can be hammered out later.

  • UncannyLuckUncannyLuck Member Posts: 75
    edited May 16

    Ruin isn't that good and it's considered to be a 'must run' perk and you've designed something that is strictly superior to Ruin in every situation, barring playing against survivors who cannot do skill checks for the life of them.

    Even if they do cleanse all 5 totems then you've effectively made them take enough time to do an extra generator anyway (70 seconds to cleanse 5 totems assuming they aren't interrupted at all since cleanse progress doesn't stay vs 80 seconds to do a generator). It's not a risk in the slightest because you always benefit.

    EDIT: Let me recontextualize this - if there was a perk that said 'Once per match, revert a completed generator to 0% progress' what would you say about that perk? Would you ever run something other than that perk?

    Also since we're talking about perks, what would you do with Dying Light? I was thinking it'd be usable if it applied its debuff if the obsession was hooked / in the dying state, but didn't if they were dead.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 2,701

    "- Thanatophobia: Bigger numbers."

    I was about to add this as well. Will update the post.

    "- Shadowborn: Once a survivor has been standing still for 3 seconds his aura will be shown to the killer until the survivor moves. It doesnt work with actions, it's just like the AFK alert (RIP Claudette)"

    I actually love this idea. 3 seconds sounds like a decent time as well.

    "- Bloodwarden: Being able to be activated more than once would make the perk broken because of the EGC. Instead, make It so that if you hook someone when all the gens are powered, the perk will block the doors the second they get opened. This way survivors will always find at least 1 door blocked and they have to open them soon and work against the EGC timer to save their hooked teammate."

    I was a little concerned with my idea since the EGC release as well. My idea made more sense beforehand. I like your idea, however I still think it might be too weak and I don't think people would really use it.

  • tt_ivi_99tt_ivi_99 Member Posts: 1,232

    @UncannyLuck

    Why does It have to come with a risk tho? I mean... Does Balance Landing come with a risk? Does DS come with a risk? Does Adrenaline come with a risk?

  • tt_ivi_99tt_ivi_99 Member Posts: 1,232

    @Blueberry

    My idea of Bloodwarden would counter survivors 99% doors to avoid EGC because if they did 99% the doors and open them after they've unhooked their teammate then Bloodwarden would [BAD WORD] them up. I think It would be a pretty strong perk that way.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 2,701

    That's a fair point. I feel like that puts the issue more on Ruin and other other weaker "slow down" perks needing to be better than that the "new" NOED is too strong. I say this because most people generally agree that the current slow down perks are quite bad and killers don't have enough time already even with them.

    Your point about there not really being a risk with it is a good one. Would there need to be? I say this hypothetically if the other slow down perks were buffed as well. Maybe just a perk to slow down the game would be fine.

    "EDIT: Let me recontextualize this - if there was a perk that said 'Once per match, revert a completed generator to 0% progress' what would you say about that perk? Would you ever run something other than that perk?"

    I'd probably run it AND Ruin. It would sound pretty good to me. You might say that seems too strong, but is it really when we compare it to some survivor perks? I wouldn't say so. Maybe a downside is you couldn't use it unless a gen was at least 85% and up. This being a downside because you'd HAVE to happen to interrupt a gen that's in that specific range, not before and not after it's completed. You could very likely never even get to use it.

    "Also since we're talking about perks, what would you do with Dying Light? I was thinking it'd be usable if it applied its debuff if the obsession was hooked / in the dying state, but didn't if they were dead."

    Let me add Dying Light to my original post and then we can comment from there.

  • UncannyLuckUncannyLuck Member Posts: 75

    I'm not even saying it should come with a risk there - just that the perk described would always be run by every killer because you're effectively saying "start the trial with 6 generators to do." And that's boring because that means you only have 3 perks to do other interesting things with since you always have to run that perk unless you feel like gimping yourself that match.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 2,701

    That's a good point. However, I'd argue I shouldn't have to waste a perk slot to fix bad game design in the first place. There should be something in the base game to prevent 99%ing the gates. IE maybe they have a constant slow degrade if not finished.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 2,701

    Tbf even though it's the same time almost, cleansing the totems is something different than gens and with no skillchecks. So not QUITE the same lol

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 1,445

    I actually had a similar idea to your NOED idea sometime back. Difference was that it wasn't a Hex perk, and instead of fully regressing 3 gens, it only partially regressed 3 gens depending on how many Survivors were still alive.

  • UncannyLuckUncannyLuck Member Posts: 75

    Yeah it's kinda a wash. With a Gen, all 4 survivors could pile on and do it in less time than it'd take to cleanse 5 totems individually. I just want to see the widest selection of perks available, so having clear winners is a no-go for me.

    Here's an idea for Blood Warden: After hooking someone when exit gates are powered, a dull Hex totem will light up. The entity will block the exit gate switches until the totem is cleansed.

    The change here would be rather than blocking the exit itself, it would prevent survivors from opening the exit until they cleansed the totem. It might need to be disabled if EGC is activated.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 2,701
    edited May 16

    Hmm, I like the idea but I wonder if its really strong enough that anyone would realistically run it for how situational it is. I wouldn't run it.

    If we have it blocking the switches now instead of the gates then EGC timer isn't really as much of an issue now since it wouldn't have activated yet. So what if getting more hooks before it ended would refresh it?

  • tt_ivi_99tt_ivi_99 Member Posts: 1,232

    @UncannyLuck

    Maybe if the game wasnt so broken in terms of balance people wouldnt pick that perk...

  • UncannyLuckUncannyLuck Member Posts: 75

    I wasn't sure if that'd be too strong or not. I think that, as long as you have another dull Hex totem, it should be able to re-activate. I guess I should clarify that it's no longer time-based but rather the exit gate switches are blocked until the totem is cleansed. It's less situational than it was previously at least?

    And yeah EGC probably isn't an issue. You might have a hilarious situation where someone makes a key escape and gets their team killed, but that'd be rare.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 2,701
    edited May 16

    I like the idea. However, if it's gonna have a totem to cleanse it then it shouldn't need a hook to activate it. Just block the switches on power up. The fact that you have to get a down and hook them ONLY in the time frame between gates powered and they havn't been opened yet is already a pretty strong restriction and gamble for an entire perk slot down that may not even activate.

    Another issue. What's to stop the killer from just standing in front of his totem and taking the game hostage if there's no timer on it?

  • UncannyLuckUncannyLuck Member Posts: 75

    That's a fair counterpoint - would you say it should do both (e.g. when powered AND after hook) or just activate like NoED then? I think you're right that the secondary condition won't happen enough.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 2,701
    edited May 16

    If it did both it could work. It can't refresh, so you'd essentially get 1 guaranteed activation and a possible 2nd if you played it right.

    How long would it last though? Old BW was 60 seconds one time and that was way too weak imo.

    I'm thinking each would be 60 seconds. So a guaranteed 60 and a MAYBE 60 more.

    Should we make the second activation be on the actual gate itself though? Would add a little more scary pressure on the EGC without being too oppressive since it may not even activate and even if it does after EGC it only gets that 60 seconds.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 3,711

    No to auras for IF and IM. I run Calm Spirit and that would nerf this already niche perk. Plus these perks would be way to strong with auras. IF is fine the way it is, IM could use a longer Exposed timer. That's about it.

    I'll post back when I read all the other stuff.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 2,701

    IF is garbage and ran by no one in its current state. It giving less use to Calm Spirit is an issue with Calm Spirit which also needs buffs.

    For IM we can cut the aura if we increase the timer more.

  • TreemanXDTreemanXD Member Posts: 4,365

    I agree with this. Infectious fright could instead cause survivors within a 32/45/56 meter range to scream. For IW make the survivor exposed for 15/30/45 seconds.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 2,701

    "Infectious fright could instead cause survivors within a 32/45/56 meter range to scream"

    This is pointless. The range of the scream has nothing to do with why it's weak at all. It's weak because a location ping is barely above worthless.

    "For IW make the survivor exposed for 15/30/45 seconds."

    Hypothetically if that was the change it would still be ran by no one. Too situational and not that great in that situation. It needs to be either less situational or extremely powerful when the situation arises. If the perk isn't gonna be ran after a change it wasn't worth changing.

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