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Ghostface: Thorough Critique (Pros and Cons)

GrazoxGrazox Member Posts: 45

Hello developers at Behavior! I've been a longtime player and fan since launch, so I would appreciate my feedback getting a fair shake as I hope to give this critique. I want the Ghost Face to be the best Killer he can be on launch, so please forward this to the proper developers in full so they can get my comprehensive assessment. Here we go!

The Pros:

1) Crouch can help with mindgaming certain loops

There’s definitely a few areas where this Killer can have an advantage other Killers can’t when mindgaming a Survivor. In these niche scenarios, the crouch is mildly useful.

2) Night Shroud can help with mindgaming certain loops

Once again, there are niche scenarios where turning off your Red Stain and Terror Radius while neither the Killer nor Survivor are visible to one another can give this Killer the potential to mindgame the Survivors where otherwise isn’t possible. This is, again, niche.

3) Night Shroud cancellation shows direction of sighting

When spotted, you at least no which general area to look for to track the spotter. This gives at least a limited form of awareness of at least one Survivor within the immediately vicinity at that moment in time.

4) Normal movement speed

I may be pushing to find positives, but I’ll always be grateful when a Killer with an underwhelming power has 115% movement speed. This is the one thing saving this Killer from being utterly hopeless.

The Cons

1) Night Shroud cancelled if spotted for 1 second

DbD 101: Survivors have third-person camera with 360 degree movement, so always have your camera constantly looking around for the Killer at the start of the match. Once you confirm it’s a stealth Killer, continue until the end of the match. This is basic stuff, and yet this Killer’s entire power is negated the instant the Survivor’s camera so much as catches sight of his toe sticking out of a corner. Even assuming this is a glitch as has been claimed, it takes little to no effort to put one’s camera right on the Killer they see.

The solution: Lengthen the time needed cancel Night Shroud to 2-3 seconds.

2) Survivor body angle doesn’t matter

Continuing with the above criticism, it doesn’t matter if the Survivor is actually facing the Killer, they will see him with their camera looking behind them. This gives the Ghost Face absolutely no indication when and where he should strike from. How he approaches a situation is completely irrelevant because all the power (no pun intended) is in the Survivor’s hands.

The solution: Require the Killer to be within the actual Survivor's LoS, not the third-person camera's LoS.

3) Survivors outside Killer's FoV/LoS can cancel Night Shroud

I will give you two different scenarios.

One, the Killer hears a Generator being repaired while not actively chasing or being watched by any other Survivor. He activates Night Shroud to try stalking this Survivor. As he approaches and attempts to stalk, he does not see the Survivor. Suddenly, Night Shroud is cancelled. The Survivor, on the other side of the Generator which the Ghost Face cannot see, spotted him thanks to the third-person camera seeing over the Generator despite this being impossible if the Survivor was in first-person.

Another, the Killer is in the midst of chasing a Survivor when he hears a nearby Generator being repaired by another Survivor. He decides to quickly switch targets and activates Night Shroud to get the jump on the other Survivor. Night Shroud is immediately cancelled. For the Survivor he was chasing had kept his camera on him and immediately spotted him while the Killer looked away.

In both scenarios, the Ghost Face had no control over the situation and was left essentially powerless for the duration. Even if he doesn’t physically see any Survivor, they just need to see one part of him to render him on his knees. This issue is then multiplied by the fact there are four sets of eyes that could spot him at any given time from four different angles. In short, he is the most bulliable Killer ever added to this game.

The solution: The only Survivors who can spot the Ghost Face and cancel his power are the Survivors within his LoS. In other words, both the Survivor and the Ghost Face must physically see each other.

Clarification: This will not affect the Killer in a chase because moonwalking while using Night Shroud does not help him control the Survivors' health state or movement. (unlike, say, the Pig’s RBTs or the pre-nerf Legion’s exploit of DWs) Thus, there is nothing to be gained unless mindgaming a loop and not visible to the Survivor (ie, negating the point of moonwalking)

Clarification: This means the aforementioned pro of receiving a directional notification of the spotter will be removed as that would no longer occur.

4) Default Night Shroud cancellation range is approx. 32 meters

If it wasn’t hard enough to sneak up on Survivors, the Killer now also gets to enjoy being spotted literally at the limit of his Terror Radius. Basically, the moment a Survivor could theoretically hear a heartbeat, they could cancel Night Shroud. And this more often than not occurs when the Killer isn’t even actually seen by the Survivor. The Survivor just happens to be looking in that general direction and boom! Power cancelled.

If the Survivor can actually see the Killer from that distance, they could probably move out of his LoS or just plain escape before he could be anything resembling an imminent threat. We don’t need to cripple his power, too.

The solution: Reduce the default range to approx. 16-20 meters.

5) Extremely loud when within approx. 8-12 meters

He’s a walking kite, at least if the horribly recorded sounds of wind-battered cloth is to be believed. And even if using Night Shroud, these noises can be heard when within 8-12 meters distance. This is unacceptable. There are too many scenarios where the Killer needs to get within this range to attempt stalking a Survivor, and the Survivor has a proportionally higher chance of spotting this Killer when they get this close. There is absolutely no reason to add another downside to getting this close by letting Survivors hear a wind turbine blare next to them.

The solution: Remove all noise the Killer makes while in Night Shroud except for footsteps, breathing, crouching, leaning, etc. and only make it audible within 8-12 meters of Survivors.

6) Map-wide sound notifications for everything he does

If I’m on the other side of the map, I know when he goes in Night Shroud, when he marks someone, and when he gets cancelled out of Night Shroud... Why? There is no reason for me to be appraised of what a stealth Killer is doing on the other side of the map, much less when he’s trying to stealth on my side of the map. And yet Survivors receive every notification possible to know they’re safe or should be on alert. It’s nauseatingly hand-holdy in a game where the first thing you learn is to be aware of your surroundings regardless of Terror Radius. Experienced Survivors are already always on the lookout, especially against a stealth Killer. This added help is unnecessary.

The solution: Remove all notifications of the Killer entering Night Shroud for Survivors. Notifications of being marked and cancelling Night Shroud are heard only by the Survivor who has been marked or cancelled the power as well as the Killer.

7) Lean is too finicky

The problem with stalking by leaning is that it's often just a useless gimmick. The Killer can lean from the two long sides of a wall, but if he wants to lean around the two short sides of it, he usually can’t. This, combined with the lean often still obstructing your vision while giving the Survivor at least partial look at you makes it too unreliable.

The solution: Polish this mechanic further.

8) Survivors are only Exposed for 20 seconds

Even if we ignore all of these fundamental flaws in the Night Shroud ability, the actual Exposed effect doesn’t last nearly long enough to justify the setup. I take 4-5 seconds to stalk you after spending 10+ seconds wasting time trying to get an angle on you where I can stalk you without being spotted. If the Survivor started running at any point during that period, They have wasted a good 10-15 seconds of that Exposed status while I move to catch up. And more likely than not, they’ve found a window or pallet to waste the final 5. If they didn’t move until after being Exposed, chances are they still find that window or pallet and waste those 20 seconds looping the Killer.

Most perks and powers grant the Exposed status for 60 seconds, and for good reason. A decent Survivor has a pretty good chance of wasting most of that time before taking a single M1 hit from the Killer. The odd are just stacked in the Survivors' favor. And yet the Ghost Face has to somehow do what most 115% speed Killers can’t without the help of their power. (see why all these Killers are mid-tier at best) In other words, those 20 seconds only work when the Survivor is not paying attention (which is their fault) or when they are in the wide open. (also their fault)

The solution: Increase the duration of the Exposed status to up to 60 seconds. Make it no lower than 30 seconds after seeing extensive metrics of high-level play with this Killer.

9) Object of Obsession hard-counters Night Shroud

There are a few other perks that cause similar issues, but none so neuter this Killer like this perk. This is already an obnoxious perk when used by SWFs to get constant information about the Killer’s location. Now the latest stealth Killer is rendered even more helpless than any of the others thanks to a Survivor running this.

The solution: Rework Object of Obsession from the ground up so it’s no longer abusable for SWFs and against the Ghost Face.

10) Corn/Grass/Reeds prevent stalking

Can I see the Survivor working on a Generator? No I can’t according to this leaf of grass, stalk of corn, or length of reed obscuring part of their body. If they’re behind one of these things, I guess I just have to accept never getting off my power. This isn’t a huge issue since you can still theoretically sneak up behind them to get an easy M1, but it emphasizes all the other issues.

The solution: Make the rest of his power worth this occasional frustration.

11)  The name “The Ghost Face”

Really? After three years, we’re going to break the one word convention? Not “The Ghostface”, even though that would still sound awkward? How about The Ghost, The Stalker, The Prankster, The Trickster, The Rascal, The Scoundrel, The Scamp, The Imp? All of these would be thematically appropriate to the Killer’s character or power while remaining natural to the reader or speaker and keep the one-word naming scheme we so love alive.

The solution: Pick a better name.

The first 8 cons need to be addressed for this Killer to have any hope of seeing any play past the lower ranks. I haven't purchased a single new Killer since the Doctor. (which is ironic since I would've paid for the Huntress) All the paid Killers since have been a disappointment. The one exception is the Spirit and that was after three rounds of buffs. I was going to purchase her along with Ghostface, but his current state has demoralized my wallet.

Please, developers. Please, address what I'm saying here. I want this Killer to bring enthusiasm about the game, not jeers and mockery.

(Added thoughts on perks posted below)

Post edited by Grazox on

Comments

  • VoxyldVoxyld Member Posts: 23

    I like this post , I wish devs would respond to it

  • GrazoxGrazox Member Posts: 45
    edited June 2019

    Thank you for the kind words.

    Post edited by Grazox on
  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,807

    Thank you for actually posting solutions to the problems instead of just throwing up your arms and declaring he needs a rework for being unfixable or something.

  • GrazoxGrazox Member Posts: 45
    edited June 2019

    Thank you. I hope to do the same for his perks in the near future.

    Post edited by Grazox on
  • GrazoxGrazox Member Posts: 45
    edited June 2019

    Here are my additional thoughts on the new Killer's perks. Once again, positive and negative so you guys at Behavior get the full picture.

    I’m All Ears

    Pros

    1. Knowing where a Survivor is from anywhere on the map

    It’s always nice to know what a Survivor is doing and where, especially if it can give you information that would change up your strategy. Six seconds also feels like a long enough amount of time to get that necessary information.

    Cons

    1. Requires the Survivor not be within Killer’s Terror Radius

    This singlehandedly kills the perk. There are only a handful of Killers who can reduce their Terror Radius so they can be within a somewhat reasonable distance to take advantage of this perk’s effects. Of those, most would need to use Monitor and Abuse to get the effect to trigger consistently while also being useful. Object of Obsession proves that wall hacks mean nothing if the Survivor is on the other side of the map.

    The solution: Require Survivors to not be within the Killer’s LoS while performing a rushed action instead.

    Clarification: No LoS usually functions the same as being outside the Terror Radius while also making it possible to take advantage of while within the Terror Radius. It also keeps the perk thematically appropriate since you don’t ever see the Survivor performing the rushed action.

    2. Has a cooldown

    This is in itself a justifiable con since being able to gain wall hacks with Survivors’ every rushed action would be pretty awful. In fact, the cooldown mirroring Quick and Quiet is very thematically appropriate. However, the two previous cons tip the scales too far and makes this perk not worth considering. There needs to be reliability.

    The solution: Implement the solution to point 1.

    Thrilling Tremors

    Pros:

    1. Keeps Survivors off Generators for 16 seconds

    This is really useful since if a Survivor is even one second away from touching a Generator, they can’t for the duration of this perk. This is really nice. If no Generators are being done, that’s a complete lockout for the duration of you grabbing and hooking someone.

    2. Alerts the Killer of which Generators Survivors are actively repairing

    The fact the affected Generators turn white makes it clear which Generators need the Killer’s immediate attention. And because a Survivor is unlikely to know when this perk is in effect due to the distance between Generators, they’ll likely still be working on that Generator by the time you enter Terror Radius distance. That’s a level of pinpoint information rivaling BBQ & Chili.

    Cons

    1. Effect is a little too short

    When a Killer picks up a Survivor, they’re often not able to get a full survey of the map. They have to manage their time as efficiently as possible, and that means finding a hook and getting over to it without wasting any time. This leads to many cases of hooking a Survivor and then turning around to check that half of the map you didn’t see only for the 16 seconds to be up. This is the same pressed for time problem that plagued Pop Goes the Weasel before this patch rightly laxed that time constraint.

    The solution: Increase the effect from 16 seconds to 20 seconds.

    2. Has a cooldown

    Once again, this is not a problem in and of itself. Killers could definitely abuse this perk if there was no time gap between uses. But there are many cases where you down a separate Survivor after a period and not getting to use this perk again, sacrificing some momentum in the match and consistency with the perk.

    The solution: Reduce the cooldown to 45 seconds.

    3. Prevents the Killer from breaking affected Generators

    This is more quality of life than anything, but there are cases where a Killer wants to regress a Generator but can't because this perk is still in effect. Once again, time management is everything to a Killer, so this can be a huge loss in momentum.

    The solution: Allow Killers to break Generators locked down by the Entity.

    Furtive Chase

    Pros:

    1. Tunnel proof

    This may be reaching for a positive, but I can appreciate a perk which is designed to not only make a creative use of the Obsession mechanic, but also utilize it to discourage a tunneling Killer. By making the Obsession likely to change with each hook and lose all tokens upon death, the Killer is properly incentivized to not hook or camp. Good job.

    Cons:

    1. Effect only applies during a chase

    Why o why does this perk require you be in a chase? That’s the part of the game where your Terror Radius matters the least. I’ve been in that awkward situation where a Hillbilly’s Tinkerer goes off while in the midst of a Chase. Sure, it’s weird when the chase music suddenly disappears and there’s not a blaring heartbeat in my ear. But it does jack to help him when I can look behind me as any decent Survivor does.

    If the Killer is in a chase with a Survivor, he’s probably within 16 meters. And if he tries to use his new Terror Radius to trick the Survivor, he’ll probably break chase and return it to normal, negating any benefit the perk might’ve had. The only use a lower Terror Radius has is shortening the distance a Killer has to be to a Survivor before they start running, making it more likely you make a successful first hit quickly. This is just an exercise in futility, leading to the perk only seeing use on maybe the Shape.

    The solution: Remove the chase requirement.

    2. Requires four Obsession hooks and no Obsession death

    In order to halve the standard Terror Radius, you have to hook your Obsession four times. As any decent Killer knows, the problem with Obsession perks is how they are often countered by your Obsession being a good player. And because your Obsession is liable to change throughout the match, you have a higher chance of meeting that roadblock.

    On top of that, you have to prevent your Obsession from dying or lose all your progress, so you have to basically ignore your Obsession after two hooks. And if you decide it’s worth resetting your progress for a kill, you have to ask yourself, “What’s the point of me running this perk?” If you’re just killing your Obsession before you can get any value off the perk, you might as well be running something else to make that more consistent. If you need your Obsession alive, you’re forced to ignore a player. It’s a catch-22.

    Assuming a decent Killer can consistently get four hooks within the first half of the match, they then gain the maximum effect of an ability that doesn’t really help them all too much to begin with. In other words, there’s no Killer that wants to play by these rules to maybe gain some suboptimal mindgame potential during the lategame, especially if it requires not killing one specific player to do it. You need to make the effort worth it.

    The solution: Implement the solution in point 1.

    Post edited by Grazox on
  • DocOctoberDocOctober Member Posts: 2,230

    This is excellently put together.

  • MasonMyers69MasonMyers69 Member Posts: 246

    I agree with this, @Peanits this is well put together and this would fix ghostface.

  • GrazoxGrazox Member Posts: 45

    Thank you both for the kind words. I tried being as thorough and even-handed as possible on his strengths and weaknesses. The same for his perks.

  • BadMrFrostyBadMrFrosty Member Posts: 1,100
    edited June 2019

    I appreciate the time and effort you put into this post. There are a lot of valid points here that the community has collectively noticed and brought up as well. I can only hope that BVHR gives this constructive feedback thread (and those like it) the time of day.

  • GrazoxGrazox Member Posts: 45

    Thank you, and I hope the same!

  • Shad03Shad03 Member Posts: 3,732

    You got a BHVR Read, so a dev definitely noticed you.

  • andy77andy77 Member Posts: 28

    Just because they read it doesn't mean they do something about it. That's quite an understatement :(

  • Shad03Shad03 Member Posts: 3,732
  • GrazoxGrazox Member Posts: 45

    I'm very happy to know that! Thank you for telling me.

  • Tru3LemonTru3Lemon Member Posts: 1,358

    impresive good job and nice work

  • Shad03Shad03 Member Posts: 3,732

    @Grazox It won't tell you which Dev read, but you can check by clicking on your profile.

  • GrazoxGrazox Member Posts: 45
  • TheShape78TheShape78 Member Posts: 712
    edited June 2019

    Well, had you watched today's live stream , you would know that they mentioned a number of the issues Ghostface has, AND they are currently in the process of fixing them, AND these fixes will be ready in time for the June 18 release date. So I believe they are indeed 'doing something about it'.

  • GrazoxGrazox Member Posts: 45
    edited June 2019

    There was no mention of his perks, however, which does make me a little nervous that they will be left as is.

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