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How to make "Play With Your Food" great again.

This was a perk that was OP as hell when it was first released. It didn't have a cooldown on when you'd "lose" a survivor, was incredibly easy to build stacks, and gave the killer speeds very similar to the old tier 3 bloodlust.

It was nerfed into the ground for very good reasons because it was an extremely unfair perk even on the old maps that had true infinites and maze tiles from hell.

It still sees some use on Michael as part of a "Tombstone" build as the Mori from Michael's tombstone's do not rob you of stacks, and it helps overcome some of the disadvantages you have from tombstone. But for all other killers, nobody ever uses it except maybe the occasional Wraith.

It's been 2 and a half years, and I think I have a way we can bring this old obsession perk back from the grave but keep it balanced.

Here's how it currently is

Every time you chase your Obsession and let them escape, you receive a Token up to a maximum of 3 Tokens. Each Token increases your movement speed by 3/4/5 %. Each offensive action spends one Token.

Here's what I would do to make it usable but fair

  • Reduce the token speed movement to NOED speeds, 2/3/4%
  • Keep the cooldown the perk currently has every time you gain a token, otherwise it's way to easy to gain tokens.
  • Take a page from the reworked STBFL and have it only lose tokens if the killer hits the obsession.
  • Cannot gain Bloodlust while perk is active. This one I'm not sure of, but it's my gut feeling that letting this stack with bloodlust might make the perk a must-have which is not what we want. Perhaps as a trade, bloodlust can switch on if you have no tokens?

Of course, if there's something I haven't thought of that makes this OP, feel free to point it out and I'll go back to the drawing board.

Comments

  • TWiXTTWiXT Member Posts: 1,862

    IMO, with it currently granting +15% movement speed, and your suggestion to have it give a max of +12% that won't go down unless you are chasing and hitting the obsession, IF you end up chasing anyone for long enough to reach t3 bloodlust +0.6%, and still haven't hit them... you deserve the hit. Honestly though, that seems crazy strong if the tokens only go down when hitting the obsession because that would mean that if you are a 115% speed killer, and stack it up early, then as long as you don't strike the obsession you become a 127% or 5.08m/s killer against the survivor team for the rest of the game. it would pair well with STBFL, but ridiculously so, and any killers with powers that add to movement speed would apply a crazy amount of map pressure. Imagine Billy for example, His maximum speed with add-ons is +310% putting him at 12.42m/s, and this would add 12% more that won't go down unless he chainsaws the obsession.

    I mean, yeah PWYF might deserve some tweaking to make it better, but Honestly if you manage to stack it up currently even with 1 stack, you are pretty much guaranteed to win a chase at the cost of the speed. Your suggestion however would remove that cost for every survivor except the obsession, which would be great for killer players, putting in a minute of chasing the obsession at the beginning of the trial and then dominating everyone else for the remainder of it, but survivors mains would be screaming about how OP it is. Hell, when killers used to be able to use damage powers like Huntresses Hatchets, Chainsaws, EW3 attacks with shape, etc. and it didn't lose PWYF tokens, the community cried out for it to apply to those hits as well because it was OP in those killers hands.

    I'm honestly unsure how to make PWYF any better than it already is without making it also OP, but in order for your idea to work, I'd say they'd have to increase the cooldown between each stack to 60 seconds minimum, making the killer earn the massive speed boost by spending 3 minutes of the game to ramp it up. Another alternative Idea I've seen on the forums would be to reduce it to 2% per stack, but increase the stacks to 8, and reduce or lose the cooldown, that way each hit doesn't lose as much of your speed boost for the time you put into building it. Even that though might be seen as OP, especially with 1 shot killers. PWYF is in a stable spot atm, but not necessarily a good one.

    My only alternative suggestion to make it better would be to make it so you only lose stacks for successful attacks since it currently loses them for any attacks successful or not, but even that may prove to be OP in practice.

  • FrenziedRoachFrenziedRoach Member Posts: 2,585

    If the speed boost is too much, then by all means I'm open to lowering it even further. I used the NOED speeds as a baseline because I knew straight up that the current speeds would be too much. And I'm most certainly open to the idea of raising the cooldown on PWYF stacks even more in exchange for the permanent boost

    Keep in mind that counterplay is completely in the Obsession's hands and can force a killer to lose stacks if needed.

  • FrenziedRoachFrenziedRoach Member Posts: 2,585
    edited June 2019

    Obsession perks typically don't start you with power, it's power you have to earn. So I'm opposed to allowing the perk to give power immediately as it doesn't fit with how an obsession perk works.

    Adding to the killer's baseline speed is an incredible advantage in and of itself, so starting the perk with that advantage is an automatic no-go in my book.

    Perhaps we can change the criteria for triggering the token? Perhaps the token triggers the moment the chase initiates the moment the "obsession tone" plays? With a long enough cooldown, this can prevent the perk from building tokens quickly and encourage the killer to chase somebody else. This still fits the theme of revealing yourself to your obsession only to move on to a different target. This still gives the perk some counterplay as obsessions can still attempt the stealth game to prevent the perk from triggering.

    So to explain - you find your obsession, the tone plays, chase music starts - you immediately got a token - the perk goes on immediate cooldown with a long enough duration to prevent immediate building of 3 tokens just like the original version of the perk. Killer is still able to play optimally by immediately moving to a different target.

  • SpaceCoconutSpaceCoconut Member Posts: 1,962

    I did a perk study on this perk a few months ago, I think that many people agree that many perks only need a small tweak to be "good" and still won't be overpowered.


  • Andreyu44Andreyu44 Member Posts: 1,528

    let it consume tokens on successful attacks only.

    easy fix.

  • YamaokaYamaoka Member Posts: 4,165

    Only thing it needs is a slight change like:


    "There's a maximum of 2 tokens instead of 3 and both tokens grant a 8% speed bonus each (instead of 5%)"

    so basically you would gain 1% speed over the current version of PWYF and you would lose less time getting the tokens since it's 2 instead of 3 making the perk actually useful and less of a meme perk.

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