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https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/194208

New Legion needs improvements

Last month the Mid-Chapter update (2.7.0) released which changed Legion to be way healthier for the game while also drastically improving the intended playstyle of Legion and patching out exploits that made them very frustrating. However, some changes also upset some users when they realized they weren't getting that sense of that speedy hit & run killer they had before and now feel as if they aren't being rewarded enough for using the power.

With it being over a month since these Legion changes went live, I believe it's now a reasonable time to suggest some changes to their current state to improve the Legion in a way that will give that speedy gameplay that old Legion players liked while also keeping them entirely fair & healthy for the game. Below I will provide a handful of suggestions along with a better explanation on exactly how they would work and why it would be better for Legion. Keep in mind that these suggestions are specifically only for the power and not the addons as I would like to make another post for that in the future.


1 : Legion should be granted a stackable speed bonus for each survivor hit in Feral Frenzy for the remainder of its usage.

The idea here is simple and comes from my original rework proposal I had for Legion months ago. Currently when Legion uses their power they start at 5 m/s or 125% for reference. What my suggestion would do is provide an additional movement speed increase of +0.35 m/s or 8.75% everytime you hit a survivor in Feral Frenzy up to a maximum of 4 times allowing you to achieve a maximum speed of 6.4 m/s or 160%. The speed bonuses only last for until you end your power by any means and must be earned each time you use your power.

The reason for this change is to not only better reward players for chaining attacks but to also make it possible to chain attacks against people who are more spread out. What this also provides Legion is a new tool to gain a considerable amount of map presence meaning that now if they manage to chain a hit on all 4 survivors they are more freely able to get around the map and allows you to make more game changing decisions such as maybe getting back to a generator before perhaps the first or second survivor finishes mending either to kick it or to resume chasing them once again.


2 : Legion should have their vault speeds slightly improved or completely reverted.

As it stands right now, Feral Frenzy is not a lethal power and the intention of it is to stall the game while providing the Legion strong utility. However, vaulting a pallet or window is entirely detrimental and allows survivors to gain more distance because of how slow it is, infact often times just vaulting a really strong window multiple times can just deny Legion their ability to even use their power on the said survivor. Either increasing the vault speeds by roughly 10% or even just reverting them to the old speeds would not only prevent this from being the case but would also provide the old Legion players exactly the kind of speed they want while also still being fair as the power is not lethal.


3 : Rebalance the fatigue.

Currently the fatigue feels very long, however my suggestion is not to just only decrease the fatigue time but instead to rebalance it to where it still provides survivors a reasonable amount of distance by also changing the movement speed of the fatigue as well.

Currently how the fatigue works to my understanding is that you go into a 4 second fatigue when you end your power and you move at 2.7 m/s. This means that you travel 10.8 meters during that time while survivors move 16 meters allowing for a difference of 5.2 meters or otherwise 8.66 seconds to catchup to the survivor.

My idea is to instead drop the fatigue down to 3 seconds and change the movement speed to allow you to move at 2.3 m/s meaning that in those 3 seconds you travel 6.9 meters while survivors travel 12 meters meaning that the new difference is 5.1 meters or otherwise 8.5 seconds to catchup to the survivor. This means that Legion would receive a tiny buff in this area but the distance values would be mostly the same and make the fatigue way less time consuming.


4 : Legion should not lose charge for hitting survivors with a regular M1 attack.

When Legion hits a survivor outside of their power they lose 50% of their gauge which is simply just unnecessary and makes it feel like it takes forever for the power to come back. As my last suggestion for Legion I think this aspect of Legion should be removed because it's completely counterproductive to hit a survivor with a regular M1 attack and then frenzy them anyways meaning that this doesn't make legion much stronger and only allows them to use their power more often.

I've noticed that in some cases I'll hit a survivor and lose my power gauge but then I'll notice at the last moment that there was another healthy survivor nearby and be disappointed that I didn't wait an extra 5 seconds for my power to come back to hit them both because I lose such a heavy amount of charge in the power gauge.


I hope that with these suggestions I've provided ideas to help improve aspects of Legion's power while making them more fun for people who use them and without making them super oppressive. I would also like to see what everyone else thinks of these ideas.

Comments

  • RiddickRiddick Member Posts: 121

    I like some of these suggestions but I still think that what is mostly necessary is for his power to actually do something to injured survivors. As it is, regardless of the remaining of his flaws, his power is completely useless on a chase. Not even useful for mind games. You can find a group of survivors on a gen, hit them all with your power and they will still stay in the gen to finish it because you can't do anything to them anyway while in Feral Frenzy.

  • vampire_toothyvampire_toothy Member Posts: 381

    While I can definitely understand that Legion's power doesn't do much against injured survivors, some of these suggestions are actually geared towards improving that by still giving you incentive to chain hits for an increased movement speed and making the fatigue less painful to deal with. Though staying injured isn't necessarily a problem exclusive to Legion and I think because of that I think making it so being injured is more threatening would be more fit for another suggestion.

  • ZVomZVom Member Posts: 72

    I completely agree with OP. Every statement is correct and should be implemented, except moving speed with fatigue. He should move the same speed he is atm but time should be drastically reduced.

    There should be done sth with hitting deep wounded already survivors, because currently doing that only helps them. It's ridiculous.

  • LCGasterLCGaster Member Posts: 3,154

    1 and 2 I would love, and even tho the fatigue is a pain in the butt I'm not sure about changing it

  • AhoyWolfAhoyWolf Member Posts: 1,557

    What if his fatigue was increased after every successful hit with FF? When he doesn't hit anybody while in FF, his fatigue will be 2 seconds, but every successful hit will increase it by 0.5 seconds.

    What do you think?

  • vampire_toothyvampire_toothy Member Posts: 381

    I think it's a cool idea, but it might make the power more complicated than people would like and may cause issues considering the fact that there is no cap to the amount of fatigue time you could possibly have. But another issue is that you would need to entirely reduce the cooldown addons to where they're useless or rework them into something entirely different.

  • tehshadowman33tehshadowman33 Member Posts: 939

    I like these ideas. A lot actually.

  • RieRie Member Posts: 87
    edited June 2019

    I like your ideas, would certainly improve their overall gameplay and viability

  • AhoyWolfAhoyWolf Member Posts: 1,557

    They nerfed Legion again, now you have minimal tracking in FF, great. BHVR really hates Legion. At least it looks like it.

  • TheSpnbrmTheSpnbrm Member Posts: 12

    These changes would definitely be a good change for Legion overall, although i'm not too keen on the idea of reducing his fatigue that much.

    I would rather they give his fatigue CD add on's a slight buff instead of it being added to the base kit, if not simply so that it requires you to spec yourself to do so.

  • vampire_toothyvampire_toothy Member Posts: 381


    The main goal I want to accomplish with these ideas is to not need addons. I can definitely understand where you're coming from but generally speaking it isn't like having the cooldown addons as it's simply a readjustment to the values of both the cooldown movement speed and the cooldown. That's fair enough if you think that though as the cooldown addons do feel a bit lackluster nowadays.

    Doesn't look like Legion got nerfed, I played them yesterday and it felt the same.

  • prettyfprettyf Member Posts: 442

    only i agree with 3,4 other things are make them plain op

    they already easy to injure survivors with normal speeds

    this time i will say you needs to adapt it

  • vampire_toothyvampire_toothy Member Posts: 381


    1 & 2 would not be overpowered and the big reason why is because the power is not lethal. If the power had the capability to down people by your own control then it would absolutely be too strong but that's currently not the case.

    Infact if we consider it this way, Legion's current speeds allow them to only catch up to survivors that are 10 meters away which means your ability to chain hits is very limited without addons. This is because in 10 seconds Legion travels 50 meters in their power while survivors travel 40 meters in those same 10 seconds. The maximum speed proposal for stacking would require you to chain hits and be reset every time you end your power and would even then only allow you to catch survivors 24 meters away at most.

  • TheMadDoctorTheMadDoctor Member Posts: 248
    edited June 2019

    I do like these ideas. Although in my opinion, there are two suggestions I would love as I used to be a legion main.

    For the stun time, I would prefer if you were given a reduced stun time for playing well. So, some ideas I had were a reduced stun time if you cancel FF early, and the stun reduction depends on how much power you have remaining, and/or your stun time is reduced for every survivor you chain together in one session of feral frenzy. This would make the nerfs to his cooldown addons more understandable.

    This seems like a no brainer since legion’s killer instinct is still connected to his terror radius, if you chain hits, have his freaking terror radius expand to give legion players a better tracking method.

    While the rework did fix toxic plays with Legion, in my opinion it feels half assed, you’re now heavily discouraged from using your power and now should rely on your base stats to win. It’s to me the reverse nurse, where instead of the power being what you rely on cause your basestats are awful, it’s more of you’re relying on the basestats cause the power isn’t good.

  • Tru3LemonTru3Lemon Member Posts: 1,358

    someone wants the old legion to come back gid gud buddy

  • ReikoMoriReikoMori Member Posts: 1,308

    Even with changes to the things listed in the infographic Legion still wouldn't be 'Old Legion'.

  • RicardiBacardiRicardiBacardi Member Posts: 77

    Dont mind him @ReikoMori, that guy hates Legion

  • bubbascalbubbascal Member Posts: 318
    edited June 2019

    Why is your topic getting more responses than mine? 😥 I made multiple topics linking to it as well in different places on this forum... I really wanted people to respond. 😫

    Here it is by the way: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/58067/how-legion-should-actually-be-changed#latest

    I completely agree with 1, that is what I suggested and had in mind this whole time, even before the nerfs. 2 and 4 are also good. 3... not too sure about that. That might get some valid complaints, sounds too good. Legion would have to have their slow base speed again to compensate for better Frenzy.

    One reason why people DC against Legion, old and new, even if they didn't use any form of add-on, good perk on them, or exploit, is because their locations are revealed. Survivors are, in general, bad at the game and cannot loop. They don't know how to use Exhaustion perks (Sprint Burst is perfect) to completely escape Frenzy. They didn't know to just scatter to beat Frenzy EZ vs old Legion and they still don't.

    Any Killer that cannot be countered with stealth, Survivors hate. Doctor gets DCs as well, from what I've heard. It is unfortunate, but true.


    @vampire_toothy

  • VolfawottVolfawott Member Posts: 3,409

    @vampire_toothy

    The Nerf they were talking about was the fact that killer instinct no longer outlines the survivors it red it just does the pulsing effect.

    It's not really a here or there issue and honestly it was only really massively beneficial on corn maps other than that the pulse was enough to know where the person was.

  • Chaotic_RiddleChaotic_Riddle Member Posts: 1,918

    Any changes to Legion that can help him out of the mud would be very nice, honestly. :)

  • vampire_toothyvampire_toothy Member Posts: 381

    @Aari_Piggy66 I see, I didn't notice before. Thank you!


    @bubbascal I'm not really sure, it might have to do with the timing as I made this post directly before Ghostface came out, so I'm thinking that it's mostly because people were looking to make more posts to give feedback on the new killer and stumbled upon this instead. I'd say it's just timing really as I've had other posts that just completely died out.

    That being said, while some newer players might DC against legion for their tracking, I remember reading a post somewhere on the forums where a developer stated that the disconnect rate went down by 40% meaning that it's still a massive improvement in that regard.

  • Sholynn0415Sholynn0415 Member Posts: 27

    I love playing as the Legion... but I think that they could buff up this killer as it is right not.... didn't play the oldl legion..

    Truthfully, the Legion could blend in... like maybe an add-on to go mask-less that drops the terror radius to zero (you couldn't use your blade unless you hit feral frenzy and then your radius expands and you can attack - it would give them a small enough time window to escape so to not be soooo powerful). I JUST REALLY WANT A MASKLESS LEGION 😩

  • TheMadDoctorTheMadDoctor Member Posts: 248

    It still is painful that this is how they fix legion by taking any tiny element that made him unique and not adding anything new, only buffing his base stats and making it where the power is so bad you don’t even want to use it aside from maybe tracking.

  • White_OwlWhite_Owl Member Posts: 2,702

    All reasonable and well thought changes +1

  • wisdomwisdom Member Posts: 216

    For legions theme wouldn’t you want the opposite?

  • OdimmOdimm Member Posts: 33

    Honestly, there are only slight changes needed and not a complete rework like some people imply. Here are the three that I believe would make him fun/viable again:

    Shorten his cooldown - 3s sounds managable

    Old vault speed back

    Make DW bar go down while doing a gen - this is the biggest issue with DW right now as survivors just ignore it and do gens in your presence as you get looped by another one...

    That covers the core mechanics, the pin add-ons should also be applied by 1 hit as 60s duration is already kinda short because you need to catch and hang them first to benefit from it.

    Pray to BHVR

  • vampire_toothyvampire_toothy Member Posts: 381

    I can get behind these suggestions, that being said I'm not entirely sure if you think I'm supporting an entire rework here. If that is the case though I would like to point out that I don't think legion needs to be fundamentally changed, just that they should have a stronger utility from their existing power to make better use out of it in more scenarios.

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