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Stealth. Viability in the current Meta

Darckshado9Darckshado9 Member Posts: 23

Now, I am a rank 10 survivor so there may be some things I say that don't effect rank 1s, but i felt this was worth putting together anyways. [Also real quick, High agro builds are builds focused on outrunning the killer, instead of stealthing away]
Currently there are 16 Perks which I would classify as Stealth perks (perks that have little to no use in classic high agro builds) and there are 17 perks which I would classify as High Agro Perks (Perks with little to no use in stealth builds)
This means that of the 53 Perks available, 20 weren't able to be classified, perks like botany knowledge as its flexible.
This is a lot closer than I thought and then I decided to look at the Killers, the reason why I started looking into this. Currently the confirmed top Meta killers are The Nurse and The Hill-billy. The Nurse is Directly countered by stealth, as losing her before she regains from her fatigue is of most importance, but the Billy is a bit Different. He generally does well against both High Agro Builds and Stealth Builds, but that said, its completely possible, to do better against a Billy with a Stealth Build then a High Agro due to his instant downing.

Still, I think that Stealth does need a bit of a buff for one simple reason, the Prevalence of BBQ and chili and Whispers to a lesser extent. Killers with these perks pretty much directly counter Stealth builds, leaving only high agro builds. Also worrying is the presence of the Doctor, This means that Stealth will never be the best build in the game, because The Doctor stops any attempts at stealth, but I believe buffing perks like resilience, or premonition will give back the incentive to be a bit more stealthy, giving survivors a cool risk/reward mechanic with builds, they could focus on getting gens done quicker, but leave their team more open if they get found.

And while yes, I know that No mither kind of does this already, the extent that it does it and the need to focus an entire build around it makes it a bit unwieldy, I would also buff no mither to give an iron will status effect (no pain noises from injuries). Ultimately I like the idea of going into a game as a killer and not to expect to see scratch marks all around the map because survivors couldn't care less about being found.

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Comments

  • VisionmakerVisionmaker Member Posts: 1,357

    BHVR: Let's make aura reading WAY more powerful! Bitter Murmur and Dark Sense, straight to the top!

  • cTrixcTrix Member Posts: 122
    edited July 2018

    Personally I run Empathy because you will always see where the killer is at if he's in a chase, and it's also useful outside of that for it's designed purpose. Basically the only time you don't know exactly where the killer is, is right after he hooks someone, at which point they probably have BBQ so you just want to hide anyways.
    You can also tell when a killer breaks off or loses a chase by how the wounded survivor reacts (self caring for example)

    Technically there's the situation where the killer hooked someone and then failed to find someone else at which point you don't get any benefit from Empathy, but there has to be some part that's not OP against the killers.

    The reason that a lot of people don't run stealth builds is it's just too powerful to loop killers into infinity and gen rush at the same time. There's no point to stealth builds if you can just do that. Killer coming to you doing a gen? You don't need spine chill, just sprint burst away.

  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 10,208

    @Darckshado9 said:
    Now, I am a rank 10 survivor so there may be some things I say that don't effect rank 1s, but i felt this was worth putting together anyways. [Also real quick, High agro builds are builds focused on outrunning the killer, instead of stealthing away]
    Currently there are 16 Perks which I would classify as Stealth perks (perks that have little to no use in classic high agro builds) and there are 17 perks which I would classify as High Agro Perks (Perks with little to no use in stealth builds)
    This means that of the 53 Perks available, 20 weren't able to be classified, perks like botany knowledge as its flexible.
    This is a lot closer than I thought and then I decided to look at the Killers, the reason why I started looking into this. Currently the confirmed top Meta killers are The Nurse and The Hill-billy. The Nurse is Directly countered by stealth, as losing her before she regains from her fatigue is of most importance, but the Billy is a bit Different. He generally does well against both High Agro Builds and Stealth Builds, but that said, its completely possible, to do better against a Billy with a Stealth Build then a High Agro due to his instant downing.

    Still, I think that Stealth does need a bit of a buff for one simple reason, the Prevalence of BBQ and chili and Whispers to a lesser extent. Killers with these perks pretty much directly counter Stealth builds, leaving only high agro builds. Also worrying is the presence of the Doctor, This means that Stealth will never be the best build in the game, because The Doctor stops any attempts at stealth, but I believe buffing perks like resilience, or premonition will give back the incentive to be a bit more stealthy, giving survivors a cool risk/reward mechanic with builds, they could focus on getting gens done quicker, but leave their team more open if they get found.

    And while yes, I know that No mither kind of does this already, the extent that it does it and the need to focus an entire build around it makes it a bit unwieldy, I would also buff no mither to give an iron will status effect (no pain noises from injuries). Ultimately I like the idea of going into a game as a killer and not to expect to see scratch marks all around the map because survivors couldn't care less about being found.

    Maybe stealth needs a slight buff (only very slight in my opinion), but actually its all the meta perks that require a hard nerf.

    And yeah, even in the current situation stealth is very possible. The only exception might be doc with the illusion addon, very hard to be stealthy against that, but lets face it..... how often do we verse a doc with that specific build :wink:

  • TheTimeMachineTheTimeMachine Member Posts: 229

    BHVR: Let's make aura reading WAY more powerful! Bitter Murmur and Dark Sense, straight to the top!

    I’m way with you. These perks may (or may not) end up being devastating pretty soon. I really like the idea of these perks being useful through the game, but they seem like they would be just way too powerful with the proposed changes.
  • P3MyersP3Myers Member Posts: 58
    edited July 2018

    @cTrix said:
    Personally I run Empathy because you will always see where the killer is at if he's in a chase, and it's also useful outside of that for it's designed purpose. Basically the only time you don't know exactly where the killer is, is right after he hooks someone, at which point they probably have BBQ so you just want to hide anyways.
    You can also tell when a killer breaks off or loses a chase by how the wounded survivor reacts (self caring for example)

    Technically there's the situation where the killer hooked someone and then failed to find someone else at which point you don't get any benefit from Empathy, but there has to be some part that's not OP against the killers.

    The reason that a lot of people don't run stealth builds is it's just too powerful to loop killers into infinity and gen rush at the same time. There's no point to stealth builds if you can just do that. Killer coming to you doing a gen? You don't need spine chill, just sprint burst away.

    to be fair looping and chases are encouraged by the emblem system. The longer a chase the better. But you are right spine chill and empathy are underrated.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,020

    Went against a doc last night with + 175% extended terror range and he got everyone pretty quickly, even camped and did nothing but run across 1/4 of map hitting ppl till they got to tier 3. He got 4 sacs and didn't even try hard really. you can't stealth against that and you can't play against it no matter what you do, it's that op.

  • HeroLivesHeroLives Member Posts: 1,362
    Been buying up dark sense left and right with my survivors. Will be a must bring
  • BradyBrady Member Posts: 988

    @Orion said:
    Stealth has always and will always be viable. It should be the only way to play, IMO.

    Not entirely....

    And that's someone who knows how to lose a killer, but it's mainly due to mindgames and resorting to stealth afterwards.

    @No_Mither_No_Problem said:
    -Barbecue and Chili
    -Bitter Murmur
    -Nurse’s Calling
    -All other Aura-reading Perks/abilities
    -Bloodhound+Sloppy butcher combo
    -Survivors being obnoxiously loud while injured
    -Visual and audio cues for pretty much everything that isn’t walking
    -The Doctor’s existence
    -The surpsingly high gamma of many maps
    -Loud AF music only the Surv can hear while the Killer is close which can cause a lack of judgement in what the Killer hears

    “Stealth is viable.” -Every Nurse main

    This made me laugh considering it's really true and so ironic to say.

    Also, you forgot about Freddy

  • White_OwlWhite_Owl Member Posts: 1,158

    @Darckshado9 said:
    Also worrying is the presence of the Doctor, This means that Stealth will never be the best build in the game, because The Doctor stops any attempts at stealth

    Sorry but as a stealthy survivor I get triggered when I read such things. Stealthing is "impossible" against him only before you get to madness 1 (still false because lockers exist), so you just need to play smart and reach it while the killer is chasing someone else.
    Besides, killers' tracking perks are not comparable in strenght to survivors' stealth perks, since most of the formers have easy counters (being a strategy or a survivor perk), while the latters most of the times rely only on the survivor's ability to use them, but can't be actively countered by the killer.
    Just an example:
    BBQ can be countered by being <40 meters from the hook, walking one direction and then the opposite one after 4 s or hiding one's aura between that of a generator (that got changed to make this easier, too).
    Premonition gives you the killer's position every 30s. The only counter is Myers in EW1.

  • No_Mither_No_ProblemNo_Mither_No_Problem Member Posts: 1,118

    @Brady said:

    @Orion said:
    Stealth has always and will always be viable. It should be the only way to play, IMO.

    Not entirely....

    And that's someone who knows how to lose a killer, but it's mainly due to mindgames and resorting to stealth afterwards.

    @No_Mither_No_Problem said:
    -Barbecue and Chili
    -Bitter Murmur
    -Nurse’s Calling
    -All other Aura-reading Perks/abilities
    -Bloodhound+Sloppy butcher combo
    -Survivors being obnoxiously loud while injured
    -Visual and audio cues for pretty much everything that isn’t walking
    -The Doctor’s existence
    -The surpsingly high gamma of many maps
    -Loud AF music only the Surv can hear while the Killer is close which can cause a lack of judgement in what the Killer hears

    “Stealth is viable.” -Every Nurse main

    This made me laugh considering it's really true and so ironic to say.

    Also, you forgot about Freddy

    I was gonna say Freddy but since no one ever plays him it’s kinda a moot point.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 3,501
    edited July 2018

    @No_Mither_No_Problem said:
    -Barbecue and Chili
    -Bitter Murmur
    -Nurse’s Calling
    -All other Aura-reading Perks/abilities
    -Bloodhound+Sloppy butcher combo
    -Survivors being obnoxiously loud while injured
    -Visual and audio cues for pretty much everything that isn’t walking
    -The Doctor’s existence
    -The surpsingly high gamma of many maps
    -Loud AF music only the Surv can hear while the Killer is close which can cause a lack of judgement in what the Killer hears

    “Stealth is viable.” -Every Nurse main

    Stealth is absolutely viable against almost all of these. Doc and Bloodhound are really the only ones you can't stealth. Though for BH you could argue that since you need to be injured you can stealth it (which you totally can) but once injured it's fairly impossible to escape from the killer. You are just stuck being chase for X amount of time however long you can run for.

    For each of the aura perks you can avoid them as long as you know they have them. BBQ, either be inside the terror radius, behind a gen, or just don't be where the killer just saw you. Walk away in a different direction. I'm to a point now I just assume every killer has BBQ until I know otherwise and I play around it. In fact just yesterday I had a game against Clown on a farm map (forget which, Rotten Fields maybe?), and it was down to me and my friend. He hooked my friend across the map and, knowing I was going to be spotted on BBQ, I did a dull totem in the very middle of a cornfield. I started it before he hooked and did it for 4 seconds, then walked away far to the left and circled around to make the save. Killer 100% took the bait and came RIGHT to that totem, searched all the corn and probably the pig tree (which was close by). Nope, I was 2/3 across the map at that point to make the save (which I got safely BTW).

    Nurse's Calling is easy to dodge too just don't heal if you hear a heartbeat. Spine Chill is also a life saver here, because you tan easily tell if the killer has NC because you will be healing behind a wall and then it lights and stays lit. Killer can obviously see you and is probably coming to you. In those cases I just get as far away, into the deepest corner of the map I can to heal. You can even bait killers with this too. On Crotus Penn (long time ago forget the killer) I help another survivor by baiting a killer with NC to chase me upstairs in the main building. I healed myself to about 90%, then went upstairs to tap it so they came up looking for me. Then I go downstairs and tap it. By the time they found me I just finished the heal, made them waste a good 60 seconds trying to get me because of my aura. It was a very risky thing but IIRC this wasn't a very good killer. Point is you can stealth this.

    I'm starting to really hate Doc just for the fact that you can't vault something when he shocks you. I am constantly making it through windows only to teleport back to the other side, it's infuriating. That really shouldn't be a thing. Knocking you off stuff, or keeping you from doing most actions is fine, but vaulting shouldn't be affected simply because it's too connection based. I also think you should be able to 'snap out of it' for madness 2. With some add-ons, madness 2 is so powerful and the fact you can't get out of it is kinda dumb. I also have a problem with Docs that run 3 gen strat but then over-commit to it to the point they are just wasting everyone's time. Too many games where the Doc refuses to commit to a chase on someone in madness 3 and injured because they will go away from the 3 gens that have 0 progress. It's really annoying to deal with, if they would just commit once in a while and kill people I'd be fine with it, but I've only met like 2 Docs playing 3 gen that ever did that.

    But I think the problem people like OP have with stealth in the game is that it's impossible to stealth a good killer ONCE THEY FIND YOU. Any killer worth their salt in survivor tears will be able to follow you and eventually catch you. True Talent almost never loses someone in a chase. If they get away it's mostly because he let them go because he knew it would be a waste, or he found another surv, or he had to protect a totem/gen/hook. You don't get away from a killer like him, you just run, for as long as you can, until he catches you or gives up. That's where people say stealth isn't viable, and it's not in those cases (unless you have IW&UE). But stealth is totally viable when the killer has no idea where you are. I've straight up walked right behind killers knowing they won't think to turn around or sat motionless in a patch of cat tails for the killer to walk right past me, SOMETIMES EVEN BUMP INTO ME, and not see me. If you understand line of sight and know how to move around without drawing attention to yourself you can stealth killers all game. But once you get found stealth isn't an option anymore.

  • Mc_HartyMc_Harty Member Posts: 1,868

    @No_Mither_No_Problem said:
    I was gonna say Freddy but since no one ever plays him it’s kinda a moot point.

    MFW I'm a nobody.

  • No_Mither_No_ProblemNo_Mither_No_Problem Member Posts: 1,118

    @thesuicidefox said:

    @No_Mither_No_Problem said:
    -Barbecue and Chili
    -Bitter Murmur
    -Nurse’s Calling
    -All other Aura-reading Perks/abilities
    -Bloodhound+Sloppy butcher combo
    -Survivors being obnoxiously loud while injured
    -Visual and audio cues for pretty much everything that isn’t walking
    -The Doctor’s existence
    -The surpsingly high gamma of many maps
    -Loud AF music only the Surv can hear while the Killer is close which can cause a lack of judgement in what the Killer hears

    “Stealth is viable.” -Every Nurse main

    Stealth is absolutely viable against almost all of these. Doc and Bloodhound are really the only ones you can't stealth. Though for BH you could argue that since you need to be injured you can stealth it (which you totally can) but once injured it's fairly impossible to escape from the killer. You are just stuck being chase for X amount of time however long you can run for.

    For each of the aura perks you can avoid them as long as you know they have them. BBQ, either be inside the terror radius, behind a gen, or just don't be where the killer just saw you. Walk away in a different direction. I'm to a point now I just assume every killer has BBQ until I know otherwise and I play around it. In fact just yesterday I had a game against Clown on a farm map (forget which, Rotten Fields maybe?), and it was down to me and my friend. He hooked my friend across the map and, knowing I was going to be spotted on BBQ, I did a dull totem in the very middle of a cornfield. I started it before he hooked and did it for 4 seconds, then walked away far to the left and circled around to make the save. Killer 100% took the bait and came RIGHT to that totem, searched all the corn and probably the pig tree (which was close by). Nope, I was 2/3 across the map at that point to make the save (which I got safely BTW).

    Nurse's Calling is easy to dodge too just don't heal if you hear a heartbeat. Spine Chill is also a life saver here, because you tan easily tell if the killer has NC because you will be healing behind a wall and then it lights and stays lit. Killer can obviously see you and is probably coming to you. In those cases I just get as far away, into the deepest corner of the map I can to heal. You can even bait killers with this too. On Crotus Penn (long time ago forget the killer) I help another survivor by baiting a killer with NC to chase me upstairs in the main building. I healed myself to about 90%, then went upstairs to tap it so they came up looking for me. Then I go downstairs and tap it. By the time they found me I just finished the heal, made them waste a good 60 seconds trying to get me because of my aura. It was a very risky thing but IIRC this wasn't a very good killer. Point is you can stealth this.

    I'm starting to really hate Doc just for the fact that you can't vault something when he shocks you. I am constantly making it through windows only to teleport back to the other side, it's infuriating. That really shouldn't be a thing. Knocking you off stuff, or keeping you from doing most actions is fine, but vaulting shouldn't be affected simply because it's too connection based. I also think you should be able to 'snap out of it' for madness 2. With some add-ons, madness 2 is so powerful and the fact you can't get out of it is kinda dumb. I also have a problem with Docs that run 3 gen strat but then over-commit to it to the point they are just wasting everyone's time. Too many games where the Doc refuses to commit to a chase on someone in madness 3 and injured because they will go away from the 3 gens that have 0 progress. It's really annoying to deal with, if they would just commit once in a while and kill people I'd be fine with it, but I've only met like 2 Docs playing 3 gen that ever did that.

    But I think the problem people like OP have with stealth in the game is that it's impossible to stealth a good killer ONCE THEY FIND YOU. Any killer worth their salt in survivor tears will be able to follow you and eventually catch you. True Talent almost never loses someone in a chase. If they get away it's mostly because he let them go because he knew it would be a waste, or he found another surv, or he had to protect a totem/gen/hook. You don't get away from a killer like him, you just run, for as long as you can, until he catches you or gives up. That's where people say stealth isn't viable, and it's not in those cases (unless you have IW&UE). But stealth is totally viable when the killer has no idea where you are. I've straight up walked right behind killers knowing they won't think to turn around or sat motionless in a patch of cat tails for the killer to walk right past me, SOMETIMES EVEN BUMP INTO ME, and not see me. If you understand line of sight and know how to move around without drawing attention to yourself you can stealth killers all game. But once you get found stealth isn't an option anymore.

    TL;DR: These things can only be avoided in really niche ways.

    Sorry, but I don’t suck TrueTalent’s dong. I suck Bricky’s instead.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 3,501
    edited July 2018

    @No_Mither_No_Problem said:
    TL;DR: These things can only be avoided in really niche ways.

    Sorry, but I don’t suck TrueTalent’s dong. I suck Bricky’s instead.

    Maybe you should read it, considering I point out how all these anti-stealth things here can easily be countered. Nothing about beating them is "niche" you just need to know what perks the killer is using and what they do. BBQ doesn't even phase me now, there are so many ways to hide from it.

    Like really if you want to make an argument about how hard it is to be stealthy but then completely ignore advice on how to be easily be stealthy I can't help you.

    As far as the True comment, yea again read what I write and don't just pick out words to attack. I'm just using him as an example of a good killer that doesn't lose people. When the killer actually finds you and is chasing you, stealth isn't really an option and it's not supposed to be either. Stealth only works up to the point you are found, but it works INSANELY well if you do it right.

  • No_Mither_No_ProblemNo_Mither_No_Problem Member Posts: 1,118

    @thesuicidefox said:

    @No_Mither_No_Problem said:
    TL;DR: These things can only be avoided in really niche ways.

    Sorry, but I don’t suck TrueTalent’s dong. I suck Bricky’s instead.

    Maybe you should read it, considering I point out how all these anti-stealth things here can easily be countered. Nothing about beating them is "niche" you just need to know what perks the killer is using and what they do. BBQ doesn't even phase me now, there are so many ways to hide from it.

    Like really if you want to make an argument about how hard it is to be stealthy but then completely ignore advice on how to be easily be stealthy I can't help you.

    The ideas you described are faulty at best. Here's why:

    Nurse's Calling: Monitor and Abuse. Plain and simple.

    BBQ: If the Kiler can't see you, that means you're near. If anything, NOT being seen by the Killer is a bigger giveaway than being seen by him.

    Doctor: Take a good long look at how fast you go from Madness 0 to Madness 1. You will scream pretty much the second you enter his Terror Radius in Treatment Mode. Combined with Distressing and Order, it goes up even more, even faster, and even farther away.

    Plus everything else you didn't give a rebuttal for.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,020

    @No_Mither_No_Problem said:

    The ideas you described are faulty at best. Here's why:

    Nurse's Calling: Monitor and Abuse. Plain and simple.

    BBQ: If the Kiler can't see you, that means you're near. If anything, NOT being seen by the Killer is a bigger giveaway than being seen by him.

    **> Doctor: Take a good long look at how fast you go from Madness 0 to Madness 1. You will scream pretty much the second you enter his Terror Radius in Treatment Mode. Combined with Distressing and Order, it goes up even more, even faster, and even farther away.

    **
    Plus everything else you didn't give a rebuttal for.

    The bolded point pretty much sums it up, since had a doctor on Mcmillans with 175% increased terror range and he popped everyone within seconds of game starting into madness 1. He got 3 people into 2 within another 15 seconds and all 3 were in phase 3 in less than a minute. you can't stealth against that no matter how hard you try and on Gideon's/Lery's you're toast. Same for Haddonfield/Springfield.

    As a killer with BBQ if I don't see auras I know they're either really close or behind a gen, and moving one way works at low ranks but high ranks killers know this. Wide open maps well you can only go so far. Against a Nurse, Doctor, or Billy yeah good luck with that.

    High rank nurses with 4 blinks and super low fatigue, Doctors with that super long terror radius, Billy's with rededuced cd etc. I've been running up against rank 3 killers as a rank 7 survivor a lot lately and they just laugh on any map at stealthy play style.

    Lastly once in tier 3 you're screwed since unlike Freddy hooking you you don't get knocked out of madness tier. The Doctor running the tier II/III tracking item, yeah go ahead and unhook i'll know where you're at forever and get the other person as well.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 3,501
    edited July 2018

    @No_Mither_No_Problem said:

    @thesuicidefox said:

    @No_Mither_No_Problem said:
    TL;DR: These things can only be avoided in really niche ways.

    Sorry, but I don’t suck TrueTalent’s dong. I suck Bricky’s instead.

    Maybe you should read it, considering I point out how all these anti-stealth things here can easily be countered. Nothing about beating them is "niche" you just need to know what perks the killer is using and what they do. BBQ doesn't even phase me now, there are so many ways to hide from it.

    Like really if you want to make an argument about how hard it is to be stealthy but then completely ignore advice on how to be easily be stealthy I can't help you.

    The ideas you described are faulty at best. Here's why:

    Nurse's Calling: Monitor and Abuse. Plain and simple.

    BBQ: If the Kiler can't see you, that means you're near. If anything, NOT being seen by the Killer is a bigger giveaway than being seen by him.

    Doctor: Take a good long look at how fast you go from Madness 0 to Madness 1. You will scream pretty much the second you enter his Terror Radius in Treatment Mode. Combined with Distressing and Order, it goes up even more, even faster, and even farther away.

    Plus everything else you didn't give a rebuttal for.

    LOL rebuttal I don't need to. You can counter all that, except for Doc (which I said in my post). Again read what I wrote because you are just assuming my argument otherwise.

    NC + M&A then don't heal unless you KNOW where the killer is. Also Spine Chill. You can stealth killers I do it all the time dude. It's knowing how the killer sees things, line of sight, being able to predict what perks they have. You might not always pull off the stealth but I can assure you it's all beatable.

    Doc is a problem for me not because of the screaming but because he can stop you from vaulting (which is buggy AF, you can hop through a window and be clear away only to teleport back), and because you can't get out of tier 2, and with add-ons tier 2 is crazy strong. IMO when you 'snap out of it' you should revert to tier 1 because it's just ridiculous.

    Oh and if you are too close for BBQ, the killer has NO IDEA where you are. A circle with a 40m radius is huge, I could be anywhere. If you get within range and he can't see you, then you are completely free to go where you want. I get inside BBQ range then leave. Easy.

    @powerbats said:
    As a killer with BBQ if I don't see auras I know they're either really close or behind a gen, and moving one way works at low ranks but high ranks killers know this. Wide open maps well you can only go so far. Against a Nurse, Doctor, or Billy yeah good luck with that.

    If you want to avoid BBQ against Nurse/Billy then either get inside BBQ's range then leave, or be as far from the hook as possible so you can fake them out moving one way while you are actually going another way.

    I'm rank 1 survivor, and against good killers with BBQ if you play smart you can stealth them.

    Really guys, it's not that hard to avoid.

  • EsheonEsheon Member Posts: 467

    @Master said:
    And yeah, even in the current situation stealth is very possible. The only exception might be doc with the illusion addon, very hard to be stealthy against that, but lets face it..... how often do we verse a doc with that specific build :wink:

    When you see a doc illusion, just walk through it. That makes it disappear.

  • No_Mither_No_ProblemNo_Mither_No_Problem Member Posts: 1,118

    @thesuicidefox

    LOL rebuttal I don't need to. You can counter all that, except for Doc (which I said in my post). Again read what I wrote because you are just assuming my argument otherwise.

    I'm not "assuming" jack. You made invalid points for three elements of Killer detection and refused to acknowledge the rest. You claim you don't "need" to rebuke them because you have no real argument is my guess.

    NC + M&A then don't heal unless you KNOW where the killer is. Also Spine Chill. You can stealth killers I do it all the time dude. It's knowing how the killer sees things, line of sight, being able to predict what perks they have. You might not always pull off the stealth but I can assure you it's all beatable.

    Spine Chill tellls you when the Killer is looking in your direction. If you're healing and you see it go off, and the Killer has NC, that doesn't tell you to hide. It tells you you've just been found. The best you can do now is get a head start.

    Oh and if you are too close for BBQ, the killer has NO IDEA where you are. A circle with a 40m radius is huge, I could be anywhere. If you get within range and he can't see you, then you are completely free to go where you want. I get inside BBQ range then leave. Easy.

    You're SERIOUSLY underestimating the size of a 40m radius lmao.

    I'm rank 1 survivor, and against good killers with BBQ if you play smart you can stealth them.

    Really guys, it's not that hard to avoid.

    So you're saying because you, one singular man, can be stealthy, that makes it not only feasible, but viable and easily done.

    Anecdotal evidence is a logical fallacy, just so you know.

  • OrionOrion Member Posts: 9,321

    @No_Mither_No_Problem said:
    @thesuicidefox

    LOL rebuttal I don't need to. You can counter all that, except for Doc (which I said in my post). Again read what I wrote because you are just assuming my argument otherwise.

    I'm not "assuming" jack. You made invalid points for three elements of Killer detection and refused to acknowledge the rest. You claim you don't "need" to rebuke them because you have no real argument is my guess.

    NC + M&A then don't heal unless you KNOW where the killer is. Also Spine Chill. You can stealth killers I do it all the time dude. It's knowing how the killer sees things, line of sight, being able to predict what perks they have. You might not always pull off the stealth but I can assure you it's all beatable.

    Spine Chill tellls you when the Killer is looking in your direction. If you're healing and you see it go off, and the Killer has NC, that doesn't tell you to hide. It tells you you've just been found. The best you can do now is get a head start.

    Oh and if you are too close for BBQ, the killer has NO IDEA where you are. A circle with a 40m radius is huge, I could be anywhere. If you get within range and he can't see you, then you are completely free to go where you want. I get inside BBQ range then leave. Easy.

    You're SERIOUSLY underestimating the size of a 40m radius lmao.

    I'm rank 1 survivor, and against good killers with BBQ if you play smart you can stealth them.

    Really guys, it's not that hard to avoid.

    So you're saying because you, one singular man, can be stealthy, that makes it not only feasible, but viable and easily done.

    Anecdotal evidence is a logical fallacy, just so you know.

    If he can do it, that proves it can be done. This isn't a generalization of a group of people based on one's own interactions with them. This is a feat, and if one person can perform a feat, then it proves more people can do it. Either that, or you're saying he's the greatest stealth Survivor in the world, past, present, and future, and thus only he can do it.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,020

    @Orion said:

    If he can do it, that proves it can be done. This isn't a generalization of a group of people based on one's own interactions with them. This is a feat, and if one person can perform a feat, then it proves more people can do it. Either that, or you're saying he's the greatest stealth Survivor in the world, past, present, and future, and thus only he can do it.

    How many hours does he have in game, what perks/items/add ons etc. Are the people in his games competent, is he playing solo or in groups or with people who're grouped. Most of my games even with lvl 2's they're idiots, especially against a obvious camper. Get Lery's nurse hey lets feed the nurse camping the basement hooks from just out of terror radius.

    I've been able to stealth good quite often and then get screwed by someone either intentionally or unintentionally running close enough for an extended terror radius doc to nail me. Billy's laugh at you when they can run across maps in 2 ses or so and do a charge within 2 secs of stopping.

    3 or even 4 blink nurses laugh at stealth, with 1-2 sec fatigue timers just blink everywhere and whammo you find someone.

    To top it all off you've got all the hackers out there using aura hacks because they're annoyed with the stealthers. Yes it can be done but not by everyone and realistically unless you're ina full 4 man or the killers an idiot it's super difficult to do.

  • ACoolNameACoolName Member Posts: 177

    Y'all are getting to tense over extremes.
    The game's design is this : Hide for as long as you can while completing objectives, and when you get found, run to lose time if you're good at it, or Juke the killer if you're a pro.
    The killer is meant to have arsenals strong enough to be able to find you. stealthing all game is near impossible because of this. The system acknowledges this with chase point. at some point, you will get into a chase, and the skill factor comes in.
    to clarify. stealth builds allow you to be the least targeted. that means you're the least at risk. and the killer will go around killing others while you live. Y'all forgot there are three more survivors and every second in a chase is a second done on 3 diffrent generators.

  • Jack11803Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,863

    Honeslty, all aura perks on a timer should have a solid second taken out. Would go a long way

  • RuniverRuniver Member Posts: 2,095

    Stealth is 33% of the game.
    The other 33% being juking and strategy.

    If you rely solely on stealth, you'll die.
    If you rely solely on juking, you'll die (unless the killer is terrible).

    Stealth is a decent time waster, and nearly requires Ironwill to be played.
    Quick & Quiet is actually a great perk in that regard but tricky to use.

  • Jack11803Jack11803 Member Posts: 3,863

    @Runiver said:
    Stealth is 33% of the game.
    The other 33% being juking and strategy.

    If you rely solely on stealth, you'll die.
    If you rely solely on juking, you'll die (unless the killer is terrible).

    Stealth is a decent time waster, and nearly requires Ironwill to be played.
    Quick & Quiet is actually a great perk in that regard but tricky to use.

    Shouldn’t require a perk at all. Should only be somewhat easy to hear breathing with strider

  • RuniverRuniver Member Posts: 2,095

    @Jack11803 said:

    @Runiver said:
    Stealth is 33% of the game.
    The other 33% being juking and strategy.

    If you rely solely on stealth, you'll die.
    If you rely solely on juking, you'll die (unless the killer is terrible).

    Stealth is a decent time waster, and nearly requires Ironwill to be played.
    Quick & Quiet is actually a great perk in that regard but tricky to use.

    Shouldn’t require a perk at all. Should only be somewhat easy to hear breathing with strider

    Well, killer shouldn't require Ruin to play more than 5mins at high ranks.
    Also, they actually recently "fixed" the sound so you can actually hear them, after 1 year of buggy sounds. Doubt they're stepping back now, especially since the result is way better now.

  • axlehead72axlehead72 Member Posts: 23

    I find that a lot of the time you can use so-called 'high aggro' perks as stealth perks too. For example, using balanced landing in the factory building thing in macmillan estate (or on a hill near the killer shack, etc.) can let you run outside after falling and hide within the junk lying around. Actually lead a doctor on a wild goose chase after doing that, even with the screaming (i had ue of course too

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