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The Freddy Kruger Rework and a Message to the Devs Working on It

First off as a sign that I harbor no ill will to the Devs of DbD, I want to say that I love the game. It's currently my most played game with over 1800 hours, and I even find myself oddly charmed by the flaws in it as well. It really is a fun game to play. With that out of the way...


Introduction

Freddy is a fan favorite killer of the community, and everyone has been asking for him to be buffed ever since he got nerfed into the ground.

[For those reading this, I would like you to approach it with the mentality of "How would I both make this killer fun and bring him high up on a tier list compared to other killers?" It doesn't matter how fun Freddy is if he's weak as hell (no one will play him), and people are only going to get pissed off if he's strong as hell and boring as cardboard (no one will want to play against him).]


Current Balance Problems

The traps are altogether pointless and will rarely ever make a difference in a chase. A 15% movement speed reduction sounds good (to rank 20's). Although, you have to compare it to the clown who has this but BETTER and with greater ease of access as its not a trap but a throwable. Furthermore, the other two killers with traps (Hag and Trapper) are usually guaranteed a hit/down with a good set-up whereas Freddy isn't.

Dream Pallets are lackluster at best and yet another feature the Devs forgot to balance around SWF. Seriously... Every game I've used them in had a SWF team telling each other where fake pallets were and weren't. Also, they're basically a slightly better version of a passive Doctor ability. This doesn't make any sense to me. Why give another killer an active version of one of a different killers (many) passives?

His teleport has an absurdly long cool down and is kinda awful as well... It's more of the same complaint with it basically being a nerfed version of the Hag's mint rag build or the Nurse's blinks. At least in the case of the Hag and Nurse, you don't give survivor's a five second head start.

Waking up is (for whatever god forsaken reason) EVEN easier now. It's also pointless. The Devs tried saying that oh... You don't want to give Freddy reduced cool downs on his teleport while you're slept, while completely forgetting that the ability is [BAD WORD] horrible. (Hell, I'd go as far to say that being "teleported" on by a Freddy is favorable to survivors as opposed to a Freddy normally walking up on them, especially with Monitor and Abuse thrown into the mix. This is because you can zone survivors out of loops by walking up on them while also reducing the distance of the chases engagement.)

His access to powers is also pretty crappy as well. Having to dedicate an entire add-on to CHANGING your power to the slightly less worthless Dream Pallets ability is just an awful idea. I really see no problem with just giving him both. It's not like either of them do much anyways.

Also, they nerfed the Dream State as well, but they made it easier to fall asleep as now getting hit by Freddy or just letting a minute pass by will sleep a survivor. (I liken this situation as going from throwing a single brick at someone to trying to kill them with a thousand wet tissues.) Slept survivors no longer get a base action speed reduction from being slept and there are now more ways to wake up. I covered the reduced cooldowns already, so I won't do it here. He has some addons causing there to be some action speed penalty, but it doesn't even make as much difference as a toolbox. There's really no point to it anymore.


Current "Fun" Problems

I'll keep this short as most of the complaint can be summed up into "He's now a worse version of what we already had mixed up in a unflavored stew." This brings me to say, no one wants to play a weaker version of what they already have access to. Freddy doesn't really have anything worthwhile AND unique to him, as the Dream State is no more than a wet tissue.


Ideas to Re-balance Him and Make Him More Fun

Make it so awake survivor's can't see you until you're within like ten-ish meters of them and absolutely BOOST the range of his lullaby while keeping it non-directional. This adds an actual element of suspense and horror for when "Freddy's coming for you."

Give Freddy a 2-3% movement speed increase for every awake survivor. This would provide survivors with a reason to want to bounce around between staying slept and staying awake.

Buff the blood traps to be moderately stronger than the Clown's bottles. They have far more downsides, so it really only makes sense to have them have more upsides as well.

Give Freddy access to both the pallets and the blood at once. Both powers are currently so weak and bland that he really needs access to both to feel unique and add pressure.

Give the teleport a cooldown reduction and make it take 2-3 seconds to complete or reduce the notification survivors get in some other way. This way using your ability no longer shoots yourself in the foot, as it never should provided it's used properly.

Make it so skill checks no longer wake people up, period. There's already a surefire way to wake up now. (No one wants RNG in a game like this.)


Closing

[The Devs and their play testers have always been out of touch with good survivors and what actual balance in Dead by Daylight looks like. I don't really think I need to prove that claim as it's kind of a community wide joke that the Devs are a bunch of rank twenties (except for NotQueen.) I don't want to disregard the hardwork they put into this great game. Really, it has to take a lot out of someone to deal with a fanbase this toxic.]

Even if all the proposed buffs were given to Freddy, I doubt he'd be any better than Billy or Spirit and definitely not Nurse. Seriously... High rank survivors want to play against something other than Billy already. Nothing you give him can possibly top what they already have to play against, so why not have some fun with it? At least this way, good survivors will actually see something else aside from a guy with enough spare chromosomes to build a body double or a Nurse with lung cancer.



Comments

  • DrDeepwoundDrDeepwound Member Posts: 251
    edited July 11

    Un fortunately this entire thing has been driven by two things: 1: survivors who didnt enjoy playing vs Freddy but they didnt play him as a killer. 2. Killers who thought Fred was weak and bottom tier.

    Very few Freddy mains have been asked for opinions, I put 100s of hours into OG Freddy, and will miss his playstyle tremendously, and I played him to rank 1 without ruin or noed. I even played him PERKLESS I enjoyed him so much,... new Freddy? meh

    Sure he needed some tweaks, but not quite this. IMO.

  • DeadRedHeadDeadRedHead Member Posts: 18

    But alas, the Devs aren't listen to a small handful of people (of which I would happen to find a place) and instead the overwhelming majority of the DbD community. It's a real shame.

    Okay, but for real, there's a reason why Freddy is the only killer to need and receive a rework like this. It alone speaks as to how weak he objectively is in comparison to all the other killers (i.e. being incapable of touching survivors while they're not slept, BBQ and Chilli being about as useful as his wall hacks, the dream state being laughably easy to snap out of, the transition taking up to 7 seconds to complete making him a worse Wraith.)

    Sure, you can play him to rank 1, but that doesn't matter because your own singular experience could never speak for the entire community. Seriously, it's just cherry picking.

    As for my proposed changes, we both know it's too late for the Devs to introduce entirely new abilities and instead just give him stat tweaks that may improve the game play somewhat. Personally, I would have preferred something else aside from what we're getting too.

  • DeadRedHeadDeadRedHead Member Posts: 18


    They gave him this; HOWEVER, they made the mistake of making it his Class Photo's ability, which is a very rare add-on.

  • Fakehuman22Fakehuman22 Member Posts: 1

    Are you crazy this Freddy buff has given him so many abilities which other killers have how about something original devs and if anything he now needs to be nerfed because he seems so stupidly overpowered

  • RaccoonRaccoon Member Posts: 1,653

    If they switch the pallets for the snares (and keep the aura reading of the add-ons intact), this is as close to perfect as I can expect Freddy to be.

    You know his teleport is the ultimate mindgame at the cost of like 20% of his power bar, driving survivors off gens and into LoS for free, right?

  • CaptainCastleCaptainCastle Member Posts: 178

    He got strictly worse versions of clown and doctors powers. If you think either is op you're playing wrong.

  • ReddRedd Member Posts: 761

    Movement speed will not happen

  • claybfxclaybfx Member Posts: 1

    I think a big improvement, just sticking with this toolset, would be for the traps (dream pallets and blood pools) to always affect survivors, but if they aren't already asleep immediately pull them into the dream world. Additionally, either reduce the cool down on the teleport, OR see the auras of sleeping survivors for a brief period after teleporting.

  • DeadRedHeadDeadRedHead Member Posts: 18

    Yes, but the "tremendous" reduction is still almost negligible. It is rarely going to be applying its full debuff as all the survivors have to be slept. It's kind of garbage. The green tier version of it will more consistently provide you value.

  • DeadRedHeadDeadRedHead Member Posts: 18
    edited July 11

    That's basically saying M1 killers are overpowered... His abilities don't really do anything or serve to noticeably help him in a chase compared to other killers. Think about it. The other two trap based killers are guaranteed hits/down with their abilities. The other killer that slows survivors does it better and doesn't have to rely on trap placement. The other killer that teleports doesn't have to give survivors a five second heads up or teleport to predetermined locations. The other killer that places fake pallets does so without having that be his main power and does so without having to manually place them. He is in every way just a downgraded version of the other killers, providing little to no incentive to actually play him.

    He is for all intents and purposes just an M1 killer at this point. If Freddy really needs to be nerfed, that's like saying all his objectively better counterparts need to be as well (I'll concede Nurse needing one but not the rest.)

  • PickCollinsPickCollins Member Posts: 163

    Hag is not promised a hit with her traps bc she is slowed for a moment after teleporting. U can mindgame her trap

  • JustwantacreampieJustwantacreampie Member Posts: 16

    It's a good thing they won't listen to you because hes already better than ever. I think since you are so entitled, you expect easy wins and for all the decent and bad survivors to do even worse. Freddy doesn't need anymore buffs you just have to get good with him and learn.

  • JacksansyboyJacksansyboy Member Posts: 1

    Freddy is plenty strong right now, sure he isn't OP, and has no free hit abilities, but so what. He can easily mindgame with his teleport, the snares are pretty trash, but the dream pallets are very good. Saying "he's a weaker version of other killers" is nothing, he has multiple powers instead just 1. He's fun to play as and against, and a quick look at youtube shows he's getting easy 4ks and lots of support from top tier players, if you don't respect my opinion. Clown has his bottles, and thats helpful, but it's all he has, doctor only gets fake pallets with an add-on, and they go away if the survivor goes near it, these fake pallets survivors think they can loop, instead of just running past it. And his teleport can be used midchase to scare survivors or jump to the otherside of the map to protect a gen or totem after hooking someone, especially useful with pop goes the weasel. They reworked Freddy, he's better than he was before, but they weren't trying to kick him on par with nurse billy or spirit. Buffing him that much will not happen, especially when people are asking to nerf him. This game isn't going to work out when both sides are asking for the opposite thing.

  • DeadRedHeadDeadRedHead Member Posts: 18

    If you played Hag, you would know where to put a trap to guarantee a hit though. No Hag with half a brain cell puts their traps in pallets.

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 744

    I mean their still some buffs Freddy could use. But your buffs seem way overboard. he shouldn't have both dream pallets and dream snares in my opinion, and he definitely shouldn't have an increased 2% or 3% increased movement speed for every awake survivor. That would be op.

    His snares definitely need some buffs, as well as some of his addons. Making his teleport a bit faster would also be nice. But more than that would be too much, pretty sure.

  • typervadertypervader Member Posts: 56

    Reading this post made me crine.

    You act like his Teleport is useless but people like you think it'd meant to kill. The entire point of it is made pressure and mobility.

    The traps are not nearly as bad as everyone daids, and his are his pallets words then doctors what?

  • su11yboysu11yboy Member Posts: 15
    edited July 14

    Well my entire post somehow disappeared (RIP) so I'll try to rewrite everything I said as best as I can:

    First of all talking about the dream state. It's clear to me the Devs want survivors to get slowed down by having to Wake Up, but currently the incentive isn't really there and it has become easier then ever to Wake Up. My proposed change is that survivors shouldn't see their microsleep progression, because it instantly lets everyone know who they're playing against. I also suggest that for every sleeping survivor Freddy gets massive buffs towards the timer for when he can gen teleport, how long it takes him to gen teleport, and maybe even give him a built in STBFL cooldown for every person asleep. Right now staying asleep doesn't really seem to make it that much faster or easier for Freddy, and he's supposed to be stronger with more people asleep. This way it adds an incentive to Wake Up, but it isn't mandatory. You can waste time constantly waking up, or go against a stronger killer (similar to Plague, you can sacrifice a health state to make her weaker). I think this is what the Devs were aiming for with the Freddy rework, but imo it came up short.

    Next, is Freddy's traps. His snares are absolute garbage. To be viable they need a buff. I had an idea that when a survivor walks through the snare they get a stackable speed decrease (maybe 5%) that lasts 30 seconds. Everytime a survivor walks through a snare they get slower, and the timer can reset to 30 seconds, and the trap will remain until the speed decrease on the affected survivor(s) is gone or they go through a different snare. A slugged survivor will still have the speed decrease (effect crawling speed, not recover, or healing), however once they're hooked the speed decrease will go away (similar to exhaustion). His other trap, the dream pallets seem pretty balanced to me. They can cause survivors to stay in unsafe places (unlike the Doctor's fake pallets which disappear when survivors approach them, which can give them time to react and find a window, or different pallet). Freddy's dream pallets are strong, fun, and have simple counterplay. Sure they can be weak against a good SWF team, but pretty much everything is. Trapper, and Hag both can get destroyed against good SWF so unless we want another complete rework of Freddy where he has something other then traps we'll have to live with it.

    I also think Freddy's base kit should include both traps. My idea was that his base kit could have say 4 of both traps, but then addons could give you more of one trap and less of the other. For instance there could be a gray addon that gives you 2 more pallets, but 2 less snares. Then there could be a yellow addon that gives you 4 more pallets, but 2 less snares, and a green addon could give you 6 more pallets, 2 less snares, OR just 4 more pallets. They could also make 3 more addons of the same rarity for the opposite so you could have more snares, and less pallets. The only problem with this, is if you bring both greens you'd have 8 of each trap, which seems pretty broken and crazy so maybe make it so the addons don't stack (or just not the green addons, because with both yellows you can have 6 of each trap which isn't too bad imo).

    Finally is Freddy's gen teleportation. On paper it sounds really good. But in reality it's pretty weak. It takes way too long to have any real effect on the game. 5 seconds is plenty of time to Urban Evade and disappear. Unless the killer has PGTW or Class Photo there's little to no effect and no mind game. My idea is it should be shortened to 4 seconds (still long I know, keep reading), but all the gens should spew blood, with a small tell tale sign on one gen to signify it's the one Freddy is going to. Like 2 seconds into the teleport Freddy's husk begins forming at the gen he's going to, or there's more blood coming from the gen he's going to, or the gen has sparks come from it right before he gets there. These kinda things could set up for Freddy ambushing survivors, and pressuring all of the gens even for just a couple seconds. Class Photo could then do the one tell tale at all gens so there is no way to know which gen he's going to.

    I personally think these changes wouldn't be too crazy, but I could also see them making Freddy kinda broken, but at the very least I think his snares and gen teleportation need changes because right now neither is very good, which pretty much means he needs and addon (so he can have pallets) and PGTW, to be even remotely viable, and even then he's midtier. Right now he's a lot like Wraith: Fun to play as, and against...but weak af so you really won't go against him much. BUFF HIM PLZ BHVR, AND DON'T NERF HIM. I'M A SURVIVOR MAIN SAYING DON'T NERF FREDDY AGAIN!!

    EDIT: And suddenly my old post was revived, sigh

    Post edited by su11yboy on
  • TeambossFlozeTeambossFloze Member Posts: 953


    I digress - surely it would always be more beneficial to listen to the larger fanbase than the smaller minority?

  • TeambossFlozeTeambossFloze Member Posts: 953

    For once I think he actually sounds fun, Freddy as he is now is boring, one dimensional and has a very low ceiling for very low skill players.

  • DeadRedHeadDeadRedHead Member Posts: 18

    Don't straw man what I'm saying. I never said his teleport is for killing, in fact I'm saying it's exactly for applying pressure. I'm just saying it's horrible at it because it provides survivors a ridiculously long safe time frame to get away from the gen. That isn't pressure. It's a step up from having to walk across the map, but it ultimately makes the chase harder due to reasons such as zoning and distance. Survivors can also very easily walk to a safe hiding spot as well, meaning it can only be reliably used to engage a chase in instances such as active BBQ&Chilli or Tinkerer's.

    Also, when I say they aren't much better than the Doctor's imaginary pallets I'm saying it for the following reasons:

    The pallets are the entirety of Freddy's power to chase survivors. The Doctor has the advantage of having access to madness which reveals survivors to him, preventing some vaults and pallet-throws, preventing item usage, and also making skill checks minutely harder.

    The pallets that Freddy has access to are limited to 10 uses and have to be manually placed. Many of the ones that are placed are going to be in the middle of a chase, making it very easy for SWF groups to warn each other. In the case of the Doctor, he doesn't have to place them himself, isn't limited to ten uses, never has to reveal the pallet being faked to a survivor, and his location on the map doesn't give away the location of probable fake pallets.

    The idea of faking pallets is kind of weak as well since it's map reliant. Maps like Lery's and the Red Forest where the most important loops are the window loops reduce the effectiveness of the power greatly.

    Finally (and I can't stress it enough as it a big general problem with the game) it is poorly balanced around SWF who will constantly be sharing information with each other. This happens all the time with killers like Hag and Trapper. Survivors share your previous location with each other allowing you to avoid the areas they've used their power/traps.

  • Nea_Death_ExperienceNea_Death_Experience Member Posts: 316

    There is alot more give on this post then take. He now has ALOT of stuff. Like the doctor he has so many gimmicks to be aware of and you want them to be stronger? You know survivors are meant to have hope to escape right or else you just get DC'd like what use to happen with legion.

  • DeadRedHeadDeadRedHead Member Posts: 18

    This only legitimately happens with Nurse currently though. She's the only killer that good survivors want to DC against because she breaks the mechanics of the game.

    I'm sure you read in my original post that this change just gives Freddy a bunch of wet tissues to try and kill you with. Everything he can do is so weak, it just doesn't even matter.

    As for him having multiple gimmicks, he has ONE gimmick to be aware of in a chase and ONLY ONE. You can ONLY use blood traps OR dream pallets, NOT BOTH. Hell if you want to have the Pallets (His only ACTUAL ability) you have to sacrifice one of your two add-on slots for it. The ability itself is only lackluster at best. It should be something stronger because it's already weak AND takes up an entire add-on slot just to use unlike any other killer ability. I don't mean to be a jerk or anything, but if you say it isn't, you just don't know what you're talking about. Just take a glimpse at killers that aren't even topping the tier list like Huntress, Hag, and Myers... even Trapper.

    As for the dream state, it basically serves to just hurt him as it always has. Awake survivors can't see or be affected by what slept survivors can, making it excessively easy for SWF groups to dodge your pallets. Heck, I'd even go as far to say that solo survivors are going to have an easy time dealing with it, provided of course that they have upwards of two brain cells.

  • RexFulgurRexFulgur Member Posts: 8

    Please get out of brown ranks when you stop talking out of your behind. What you just said makes absolutely no sense and you provided absolutely no evidence to back up your claim either. If you think new Freddy is overpowered, get good.

  • DeadRedHeadDeadRedHead Member Posts: 18


    For once I think I actually agree with someone saying "git gud scrub."

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