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Why is tunneling bad?

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  • WildDovamiWildDovami Member Posts: 56

    Tunneling is awesome. There is nothing more rewarding in this game then when a killer decides to stop wasting time with you after 3 gens and no hooks.

    Just use every tunnel as a learning experience. Once you master the loops, you have helped your team tremendously. GET THOSE BOLD POINTS!

  • ElusivePukkaElusivePukka Member Posts: 680

    People who regard tunnels as 'effective strategy' are people who mistake kills for victory. You have four emblems to fill, not just one. They get easier with a kill, but they get even easier if you learn to take the blinders off and play intelligently.

  • fly_172fly_172 Member Posts: 78

    Tunneling is an issue depending on who is involved. From a purely competitive stand point, it makes sense that the killer would want to remove one survivor as quick as possible to reduce the chances of that team winning by forcing a 3v1. Realistically, it’s a jerk move. I’m not gonna rag on the people that do it, they can play how they want and it’s not game-breaking, but it’s still a bit of a jerk move. I don’t recommend doing it as killer, purely so you can get better at the game. Conversely, as a survivor, like @WildDovami said, use it as a chance to get better. Getting tunneled is great for me when it’s a 5 gen chase, and while that def won’t happen every time, it can force you to improve even without you realizing.

  • George_SorosGeorge_Soros Member Posts: 2,270

    @ElusivePukka kills ARE victory. If I onehook everyone and they all die, I won. If I have a lot of chases, hook everyone two times, but in the end they all escape, I failed miserably. Eliminating people is the fun part of the game. Don't let the devs deceive you with their false ideas about "emblems" and "rank". These more or less reward a play-nicey style, which is boring. I want to utterly destroy survivors. Survivors should work to make me fail. That's what a real fun game is about.

    Or do you prefer farming? Ugh.

  • Atrushan88Atrushan88 Member Posts: 2,065

    @darktrix I play survivor plenty and I never blame a killer for what you people call "tunneling". I blame the [BAD WORD] survivor who unhooked me right in front of the killer's eyes. That bastard needs to learn to play. "Tunneling" is not a subset of camping. "Tunneling" is that greedy ass survivor who unhooks you right in front of the killer's face, runs off, leaves you to die, and then blames the killer for "tunneling" because he did an unsafe unhook(which is still considered a safe unhook as long as you don't get downed in a few seconds because why have logic?). If a killer is CAMPING, then he's the problem, but if some survivor who wants his friggin altruism points comes up to me and unhooks me in front of the killer's face(which is what ALWAYS happens when the killer "tunnels"), it's the survivor's misplay that caused my ass to go down a second time. I'm still waiting on a way to deny survivors from unhooking me, or at least a loss of emblems/bloodpoints if unhooked right in front of the killer's face without borrowed time so that people actually learn when to unhook and when not to. Playing solo is EXACTLY why "tunneling" exists. Because those [BAD WORD] ass "teammates" decide to unhook you right in front of the killer's face, which AGAIN, is a bad play without borrowed time. The survivor was the cause of your death if you're "tunneled", not the killer.

  • OrionOrion Member Posts: 16,977

    To everyone saying "it's not fun": this ain't co-op, it's PvP. The killer is not your teammate, they're your opponent.

  • Apple2oApple2o Member Posts: 624


    Going chase to chase and being able to rapidly down new survivors means you are better than them. Killing people on their first hook or proxy camping them down doesn't really prove much. Now I love playing a campy basement hag game; but no it doesn't take too much skill to do.

  • JoannaVOJoannaVO Member Posts: 747

    A killer might not care about showing the survivors that he is, what survivors describe as good. They wanna eliminate people as fast as possible so tunneling is very effective, but annoying when you're the survivor.

  • OrionOrion Member Posts: 16,977

    This is PvP. Your opponent doesn't give a [BAD WORD] if you think they're skilled or not. The fact that you lost already objectively proves you're worse than they are.

  • AvilgusAvilgus Member Posts: 477

    People want the killer to play the role of the host and judge and will not worry about breaking your totem before the first minute or making the generators in 5 min.

  • ElusivePukkaElusivePukka Member Posts: 680

    @George_Soros kills aren't victory at all. You can get a 4k and depip.

    Kills and chases, I'm not gonna get into a subjective and semantic debate over which part is 'the fun part of the game'. Don't let toxic Youtubers and streamers deceive you with notions of "salt = fun." All that says is these people have little excitement outside the game. You want to destroy survivors? Get good enough that you make them thank you for not killing them sooner, rather than pretending that cheap tactics show you're either skilled or worthy of victory.

  • George_SorosGeorge_Soros Member Posts: 2,270


    Heh. Pips have nothing to do with victory, a sweet 4K does. But yeah I agree that there are cheap ways and fair (or even stylish!) ways of doing it. I hate moris more than survivors do, I mean I use them but only after second hook. Likewise, camping is just meh... Dead By Boredom. But none of this means that "victory" has any other criteria than killing survivors. That's why I frown at criticism thrown at tunneling. I know it's frustrating for the target, but hey, if someone so much dislikes being killed, maybe they should play a game where, you know, you don't get killed? The best and most objective measurement of how well you're doing as a killer is the number of survivors killed. You know, making the world a better place.

  • ElusivePukkaElusivePukka Member Posts: 680
    edited July 2019

    @George_Soros The best and most objective measurement of how well you're doing as a killer is the number of hooks you've earned. Tunnels are taking an easy way out, and that's my primary objection to it: it's cheap on both ends. Hooking someone thrice while giving them time to recover is thrice the skill to making it so they can't be safely unhooked - it's part of why I like Devour Hope, speaking of moris. You earn those cinematics :P

    And typically those who say "if you don't like it, play something else" aren't likely to be much fun in general - wanting the community to be lesser isn't exactly positive.

  • George_SorosGeorge_Soros Member Posts: 2,270

    @ElusivePukka God I can't resist arguing. Oh well.

    You need to understand, killers are constantly on the clock. We can rarely catch a break. Unless we constantly put pressure on survivors, we're lost. One survivor out of the game early means a solid 25% decrease in repair speed, giving us some much needed room to breathe. In theory, it sounds nice to "give them time to recover", and sometimes, when I realize I'm facing very casual players I do that. But it's a luxury we cannot afford on high ranks. And by the way, this "tunneling is cheap" attitude is exactly what I hear from survivors who can't get over a loss. It's just an excuse to explain themselves why they lost. Not that I don't curse "goddamn crutch Adrenaline" sometimes, but let's face it: these are just made up excuses, meant to make us feel better about ourselves (and they fail at that btw).

    Most importantly: a game is not fun if everyone tries to play nice. The reason I'm always advertising the most possible sweaty-tryhard-dirty gameplay is because that's where real excitement is. Other than actual cheating, lagswitching, etc, ANYTHING that's possible is allowed. Bring your best perks, items, whatever, I'll do the same. I will stop at nothing to annihilate you... and I expect you to play in the same fashion. Anything less than that, and I might as well play Pony Farm Builder 2 in coop mode. Boring. It's a game. The whole point of it is that I can do things I always wanted, but can't in real life: removing people's faces with a chainsaw, eating their livers, you know, fun stuff. So... there isn't really any argument to hold me back from doing these things in a virtual environment at least. *Sigh*

    Oh and just a little note about Devour: just like Ruin, it's not really an "earned" thing. No Hex perks are. If it gets found early, then survivors gain advantage purely because of luck. If it does not, killer does. Nothing to do with "skill" or whatever. Unfortunately, Hex perks are horribly RNG.

  • ElusivePukkaElusivePukka Member Posts: 680
    edited July 2019

    @George_Soros A measure of a killer's skill is being able to take control of that clock. It's not a luxury to allow healing, it's a thrill. This 'tunneling isn't cheap' nonsense is exactly what I hear from fellow killers who can't be assed to improve their own skill.

    I'm not saying play nice. I'm saying be good enough that they know you could play dirty, but don't have to. That's where real domination happens, when they know they're beaten despite having all the 'crutches' and second chances they possibly can.

  • George_SorosGeorge_Soros Member Posts: 2,270

    Ah, ok then. I guess we just draw the line differently between "cheap" and "ok". For me, cheap starts at a mori. Tunneling is well within the limits. But I'll stop now. Cheers.

  • MegsAreEvilMegsAreEvil Member Posts: 819

    How is it if you were dicharged from the hospital and get hit as soon you get out of the exit to be forced back in hospital instantly? People denying that tunneling is bullshit gameplay are the last people needed in the game.

  • Apple2oApple2o Member Posts: 624
    edited August 2019

    I disagree, the best killers and streamers almost never tunnel and camp. They win with solid 10-12 hook games. If you can't catch someone 3 times they are probably better than you. There is nothing better than moonwalking backwards around a loop to cut someone off and completely outplaying them for an easy down. That is skill; camping is not. Sorry.

    Post edited by Apple2o on
  • HazeHoundHazeHound Member Posts: 779

    Bad are people complaining about tunneling or camping. If others are doing gens during this time killer instantly looses with one kill.

    But yeah, it takes more than 50 iq to hold M1 and jab spacebar from time to time.

  • jeff_mainjeff_main Member Posts: 5

    I am a survivor main and even though I am of the opinion that there should be no rules for killer. You do what you have to do win. Sure as a personal goal you can not tunnel and have everyone’s experience at least be fair, but you don’t have to go by this and killers shouldn’t be discouraged all because someone complained about it at the very end. How I see it, there are no rules for survivors so there are no rules for killers. Funny how are usually toxic survivors will complain at the very end about tunneling but they teabag the whole time. there is no rule that says survivors can’t teabag so there should be no rule that says you can’t tunnel.

  • OrionOrion Member Posts: 16,977

    You disagree on which point? Here are my points, in a simple format:

    • This is a PvP game
    • Your opponent doesn't give a [BAD WORD] if you think they're skilled or not
    • The fact that you lose objectively proves you are worse at the game than they are

    Which of the three points do you disagree with?

  • elveda_demedimelveda_demedim Member Posts: 22
    edited August 2019

    01

  • feechimafeechima Member Posts: 563

    Tunneling is effective, but as a result more survivor builds are hardcore against a tunneler; instant heals, DS, DH, and flashlights are being brought into the game more often. I personally am working to get DS on all the mains in my rotation. I heard the vanilla game experiment was a terrible experience for most survivors because they had no counter to tunneling and camping which was rampant. For me I don't mind tunneling in the odd game, but it can often feel like every killer does it. When it becomes the norm, it is a frustrating experience. Tunneling game after game after game is where it becomes tedious. You don't get other objectives done and the survivor usually depips ( I dont' care) or has low bp (I do care) even if you manage to run the killer for a good amount of time. Also, it matters where you are tunneled, even a good survivor cannot loop with nothing to work with. If the killer is on you the minute your feet hit the ground and there isn't even a pallet nearby there isn't much you can do. I had one game that epitomized tunneling for me. Ran a Spirit for about 2 gens worth from the start of the match. ( No flashlight, medkit, toolbox,key, or tbagging at pallets.) She hooked me. Three survivors came in to save me at the same time (weird, I know) and they healed me up. The Spirit returned. All four of us where there, full health state. Who did she go after? Yeah, that's tunneling.

  • feechimafeechima Member Posts: 563

    False. Even a broken watch is right twice a day. If you want to play scummy as a killer you can achieve a kill over a survivor but that doesn't make you a better player. And by scummy I'm not talking about tunneling.

  • RydogRydog Member Posts: 2,644

    Wat

  • Kind_LemonKind_Lemon Member Posts: 2,316

    Tunneling is considered "bad" because of two main reasons:

    1) Survivors have very few ways to lose a killer hot on their trail, and that forces survivors to be in chase if tunneled, whether they want to be or not. Most survivor chase mechanics in the game serve to elongate chases (pallets, windows), and there are nearly none to lose a killer. It's not necessarily that survivors want to avoid their fate of death if a killer wants a particular survivor dead. Some survivors would rather have locker roulette until found or have a hide and seek game with an inevitable end of demise.

    2) Survivors expect to have the killer go through the process of finding them and chasing them down anew after every hook, and the way hook states function encourages this kind of entitled mindset, fostered by the development team. If survivors didn't expect to be rescued from the hook and be let free to do objectives or whatever else, this complaint wouldn't arise.

    Radical, throw-against-the-wall-to-see-if-they'll-stick Solutions?:

    Having the first hook state last for 3/4 of the hook timer and the second hook state last for the remainder.

    Hook timer doesn't deplete until hooked for the second time (or until survivor attempts an escape)

    Hook timer doesn't exist, and there's a random number generator modified by in-game circumstances that randomly selects every 5 seconds if the survivor moves onto the next hook state. Potentially infinite number of hooks required by the killer until a survivor is sacrificed.

    Hooked survivors can be unhooked from the place they were hooked, but appear back at a survivor spawn location when unhooked at last.

  • YamaokaYamaoka Member Posts: 3,063

    Tunneling is not "necessarily" effective.

    Tunneling is only effective if the tunneled survivor goes down *quickly* everytime while the other 3 survivors are too slow on the gens. If it's a bunch of decent survivors you'll easily lose 3, 4 or even all 5 gens before said survivor goes down resulting in a possible 1k and an overall boring game for all clients.

    I didn't get tunneled in the game below technically (since the killer hadn't hooked me before) but still: The killer wanted me so bad they thought it was a good idea to chase me for so long my random teammates were able to casually pump out all 5 gens, break hex totems and open chests (based on the loot build of one specific survivor).


    CONCLUSION: Tunneling is only effective against "average" survivors.

    QUESTION: Why would you even tunnel "average" survivors when any decent killer can win against them without playing dirty?

  • Karl_ChildersKarl_Childers Member Posts: 669

    Wait are you actually arguing that a killer tunneling a survivor out of the game means they were the better player? Lol!! Well hopefully you apply this same logic to everyone who escapes against you. They were the better players, don’t blame the game.

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