Not pressuring someone I found on a gen for 60 seconds is a loss. If I can slug that person, even if they get up later... That's a win. If I'm in the position with someone in a locker who I KNOW has DS, there's no choice I can make to apply pressure. I either open the locker for the injured person to stay injured with a DS or I leave so the injured person can keep working on a gen for 60 seconds unopposed. Standing in front of the locker for 60 seconds is ALSO a loss since it's inviting 3 OTHER ppl to work on gens without pressure. Relying on someone else to mess up a skill check that was made easier to hit isn't counterplay. I'm left without any counterplay.
You're left without counterplay bc you let them jump in the locker. Again, if you aren't Tunnelling, then you shouldn't have to wait that long for the timer to run down anyways, and If you do have to wait for the timer to completely run down, it might be behoove of you to learn what the definition of Tunnelling is.
You leave one guy in the locker for an undetermined amount of time (all we know is less than a minute if you aren't Tunnelling) and go pressure the other 3 if you want the gens to not get done. If you want that guy dead, then you'll likely just sit there and wait it out.
Yes it's a disadvantage for you, but think about this practically. It's widely accepted in the community that decisive strike is designed to counter Tunnelling. If you have to wait the full minute for a Surviviors decisive timer to run out standing in front of a locker, then You are doing the thing decisive strike is, according to what is widely accepted, designed to do. So as it stands, you only waste 60 seconds if you were Tunnelling a Survivior off the hook to begin with. It's a losing situation for you but only bc you opted to make it one. You suspected the Decisive and you still refuse to respect it, so you shouldn't expect sympathy or for anyone to think changing how decisive interacts with lockers is a good thing.
DS is fine as it is. It was broken before as it was free escape nullifying all effort killers put in chase. Right now it is a stron anti-tunneling perk and can be countered by slugging. Besides it is better to rotate people on hooks so killers can also chase the player who unhooks. Sure DS can be strong combined with other perks but such is its purpose.
So even if every all of his teammates are currently on hooks...Im still tunneling if im giving him any attention within that 60 second timeframe. Somehow borrowed time was able to counter tunneling with a 15 second window that only activated if the killer was near the hook and that was deemed completely fine, but DS needs an entire minute no matter where I am. That sounds completely normal. Im expected to not pressure each survivor for a total of 2 minutes each while they work on gens to avoid being hit by this and somehow keep my gatekeeper emblem. If I stumble across a survivor while patrolling gens who didnt bother at all to try to recover or anything and instead just jumps into a locker 5 ft away from the gen if I come anywhere near...I guess Im tunneling and just got outplayed...
If a player jumps into a locker, they cant be slugged. Ppl just do this while working on an objective during their DS timer to avoid any consequences for risky plays. What happens when you have 4 survivors do this, seeing that 60 second timer as a way to almost solo a gen without worry as long as there is a locker nearby. You are forced to just eat them unless your willing to give each survivor 1 minute of uninterrupted gen time twice per match...which would complete all 5 gens with that time alone. Do the math real quick on that one.
First there needs to be a locker nearby and as I said before - don't tunnel. Let them save the guy from the hook. If you manage to down the guy who is saved - good, go for the one who did the save - that way someone has go get off gen to pick up the downed one. It's a good way to apply pressure. You'd rather eat 4 DS from the start without any condition and be restricted to dribbling? I don't think so.
Even if you dont tunnel, to avoid getting hit by it you have to completely forget about each survivor for 2 minutes during the match. How many gens dont have lockers near them? Unlike BT that activates when Im nearby and I can just chase the unhooker, I could be on the other side of the map for this one and have no clue who unhooked who. As far as just applying pressure elsewhere... Crunch some numbers real quick... Think about how long it takes total to do 5 gens. Now think about how long each survivor has activate DS timers during a match. The problem is the 2nd number there is bigger than the first. If the only time survivors touch gens at all is during the DS timers...The gens will STILL be done, and im not allowed to grab that guy out of the locker next to the gen or I guess im tunneling.
DS can be problematic if all 4 survivors have it but you can't blame survivors for playing smart with it. Lockers are safe havens for the DS users so I'd recommend using Make Your Choice. It has the same timer as DS so you can track the time and ignore the unhooked guy. Also DS will always be problematic because the devs cannot foresee every gameplay scenario. I doubt DS will be ever changed in such a way so it can retain its utility but at the same time be a fair perk.
Once again, if I ignore each survivor for 2 minutes each...the gens get done. This is the case whether I have a perk with a timer or not. If the only time a survivor even TOUCHES a gen is during that time when im suppose to ignore them, all the gens will pop.
If DS was viable till the next person is hooked you make DS extremely powerful. That DS user knows they are safe and can bodyblock and such.
60 seconds is fine.
Ignoring every survivors for 2 minutes is huge overexaggeration. You can eat some DS's early on and besides you should recycle hooks. I know DS can be annoying as hell sometimes. I also suffer its effects often and I do play a lot of low and mid tier killers so it can be painful but if they do a locker juke on me I will always eat it and down them again soon after. Another issue are top tier killers - Nurse, Spirit - they are not even phased by the DS as they can apply enough pressure even if they eat it. As always M1 killers suffer the most. It is all hard to balance because for killers time is essential and to be fair tools to slow the game down available for them are not good enough.
I wish it WAS an exaggeration but since lockers are for some reason allowed to be safe havens, you dont have the option of slugging someone to waste their time if they choose to use them. At least with old DS I could juggle someone. If the perk turned off as soon as you start working on an objective (meaning you arnt being tunneled off hook) I wouldnt care if it lasted forever. As it stands, its not an anti-tunnel, but rather a safety net that just so happens to activate from being unhooked.
You do realize that you have 3 other survivors who you can down and hook right? By the time you will get another hook on someone DS from the first hook shall expire, That is the way devs want the game to be played in accordance with the emblem requirements - multiple hooks, multiple downs. Camping and tunneling is being frowned upon. I do not have much issues with the new DS to be honest - problem is as always time for the majority of killers. Survivors are in desperate need of secondary objective apart from gens in order to escape - but even with the genrush every side lost because pips are win requirements. That is the main issue in DBD today - what does it mean to win - escape with 10k bps or die having 25k BPS? Same goes with killer - kill everyone and safety pip with little to no BPS? Or have interesting game with a lot of chases etc. and gain massive amount of BPS killing 2 in the process?
Im asking you to look at the numbers. Yes, theres other survivors. Each survivor gets at most 120 seconds of DS time. If the only time any survivor ever touches a gen is while they are running DS time, the gens get done. Even if you chase every other survivor who ISNT currently running DS time off gens, letting the ones who DO have active times stay on gens will cause all 5 gens to pop with time to spare. You mentioned emblems, one of which is the gatekeeper emblem. How do I keep DS users from being gen jockys during their timers if they just jump in a locker as soon as I check their gen WITHOUT having to eat 4 DSes.
You can force them into 2nd stage on hook. Also as I said slugging needs to be revived as a part of the meta.
I don't get why y'all survivors think ds is okay, I play as survivor a ton and I completely despise it. The worst part is even if YOU don't have decisive you can still pretend if there is an obsession, no punish unless killer doesn't respect ds, it's not fun or fair the killer to have to suffer through a survivor with 60 seconds of immunity, it just really kills the flow, they can do whatever and have to be left slugged or in a locker since a 5 second stun can cost you the game cause you've lost all pressure. DS really needs a change, the fresh hook idea where it deactivates after another hook is also bad, giving survivors any immunity throws the game balance away, it needs to have a tighter prerequisite or something changed to make it feel fine for both sides not just the survivor
Maybe bring back BROKEN status penalty as they discussed back in the days?
that actually isn't a bad idea, you could make it that the survivor is affected by broken for the duration of the decisive or give them a broken penalty when they use decisive so you could go somewhere else. That could work I like that
You cant slug someone who jumps in a locker. Thats the problem.
There should be a choice for killers - either you pick them up from the locker or down them so they fall out of it. But sadly devs will never implement this change.
I dont see how that would have any effect on ppl who dont bother healing to begin with so they can work on a gen for 60 seconds per unhook. The biggest problem Im seeing is how long it lasts combined with the freedom of being able to do objectives during that time. If either of these were addressed, it would be fine. If the timer were shortened to match BT which allows you enough time to reach cover (have the timer pause when slugged) OR the perk deactivate when you start working on an objective (like gens, totems, unhooking someone else). Like I said, I wouldnt care if the perk stayed on PERMANENTLY if it would deactivate as soon as you start on an objective, which shows your not being tunneled off hook.
Move on, they leave the locker and complete a gen.