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Decisive Strike change proposal

Mister_xDMister_xD Member Posts: 2,391
edited August 12 in Feedback and Suggestions

while i do like the perk's general idea, i would like to propose a change to it.

this wouldnt be much of a buff / nerf, rather a QoL change that i think would be better for the perk:

Decisive Strike:

this perk activates after you have been rescued from the hook / unhooked yourself.

While active, perform a difficult skillcheck once the killer picks you up, to escape the killers grasp and stun them for 3/4/5 seconds.

after succesfully striking the killer, you will become their obsession.

only one obsession per trial.

this perk deactivates, once a different survivor has been hooked.

the perk deactivates after succesfully hitting the skillcheck or missing it.

why do i want this change?

the current version of the perk has two main problems in my opinion:

1) the killer can still tunnel, but slug the survivor for 60 seconds, denying the perk in a situation where it should have worked. this also leads to many survivors just jumping into a locker to force the killer to pick them up and apply the perk, which is considered "toxic" by many killers.

2) survivors tend to play very recklessly after their unhook, often going in for unsafe unhooks (especially if they know their mate also has DS) and the killer cant help but choose wrong at this scenario. i have been struck by D-Strikes many times now, even though i attacked the rescuer and not the rescued. this feels very wrong, since i didnt do anything wrong, so id like to remove that aspect of the perk.

this way it would be the anti tunnel perk it was supposed to be and can not be exploited to be a lot weaker than it should be / a lot stronger than it should be.


i am unsure weather the perk should be allowed to activate twice or stay the one time use it is now. please feel free to discuss that down below.


so, what do you think?

do you prefer the current version of DS, or do you think my version would be better - and why do you think so? (please be nice to each other down there, okay? :) )

i wish all of you a wonderful day / night,

may we meet in the fog!


EDIT: i made the perk description more clear and pointed the most important part out.

Post edited by Mister_xD on

Comments

  • NMCKENMCKE Member Posts: 4,890

    DS needs a timer/limit, there's really no arguement because once you get unhooked, it's basically back to old DS. I would be okay with it having a 30 second timer, but the timer pauses while in a chase or (optional) in the dying state.


    However, I do see your point tho. :)

  • NMCKENMCKE Member Posts: 4,890
    edited August 12

    Whoops, didn't see the last part! My apologies, I like this version, but I can see killers getting hit with DS even when they aren't tunneling (I.E. Can't Find A Survivor Then They Stumble On The Unhooked Survivor After 2 Minutes)

  • Mister_xDMister_xD Member Posts: 2,391

    ah, okay xD

    i was just about to type an long explanation to why i personally wouldnt have liked a timer, but you saved me from that xD

    thank you for your feedback though ^^

  • LordGlintLordGlint Member Posts: 1,137

    I would prefer if it had an unlimited timer, but turned off after beginning to do an objective (unhooking a teammate, doing a gen) or once the survivor becomes healed. This would prevent the 1 minute slugging scenario, while also preventing the 1 minute safety net while working on gens. I also think turning it off during the EGC would probably be best.

  • HatCreatureHatCreature Member Posts: 2,239

    This has no counter play, old D-Strike had an unofficial and sloppy counter that Killers had to come up with which was never reliable. Current D-Strike has counterplay and can be worked around by slugging or not going after them again.

    Your version punishes the Killer for not tunneling, so if I hook you then come back to the hook as you get rescued and but chase the other guy that's not tunneling. So lets say I chase them but lose them, no idea where they went and I'm at a loss. I walk around and hear a Gen being worked on, see you fully healed and it's been well over a minute and chase you down and BAM D-Strike. That is clearly not a tunnel yet I got punished for chasing you and not someone else, that's not fair that I just happened to find you and get punished for not avoiding you.

  • NMCKENMCKE Member Posts: 4,890

    Yeah, I didn't see the part where it deactivates after a different survivor is hooked. I was like, "Woah, that's way too good because you're guaranteed 4 chances regardless if the killer is tunneling or not."


    Personally, I like the timer, but I also like your idea. With your idea, I can punish the killer more because I'm not on a timer. The current DS I have to jump into a locker, and force the killer to grab me before my timer fades away. If the killer doesn't, then I have Head On to back me up while I save my DS.


    Overall, I'll take your DS any day! :)

  • ArrowTheGreat11ArrowTheGreat11 Member Posts: 34

    You can still tunnel with the current DS and not get hit with it. I’ve looped killers way longer than 60 seconds and by the time I go down again, the DS is gone. It shouldn’t require a timer, at least not in a chase

  • HatCreatureHatCreature Member Posts: 2,239

    @ArrowTheGreat11 I've had that too, that happens more often than not, I would be ok with a timer when not getting chased but it would have be shorter than 60 seconds, that's way too long for this type of change. I still feel that slugging should be a valid counter though, there are many situations in the end game where slugging to prevent DS is the only option to win the match and right now D-Strike is most powerful in the end game.

  • Mister_xDMister_xD Member Posts: 2,391

    in terms of counter play: read the perk description again, especially the last point. there are literally 3 counterplays to this perk running around the map, waiting for you to hook them.

    now, lets go through your scenario:

    the first thing that came einto my mind was "that is very unlikely to happen", since you not only have to lose your first target, but also have been playing for over a minute without a new hook and then happen to find the one guy that just has been on the hook.

    but lets assume that has happened: you can always just slug them and go for someone else or take the DS like a pro and redown them. hitting the DS still deactivates the perk (sory if that hasnt been clear, ill edit the main post). honestly, i'd say ignore that dude / slug them and search someone else. it isnt too hard to do so, especially with tracking perks (BBQ would basically counter the perk now by showing you a new target to go for). because technically speaking you kinda tunneled there: you hooked the same guy twice without hooking someone else.

    the perks idea is to punish you for going for the person that has just been hooked, so i dont really see the problem there. its working just fine.

  • woundcowboywoundcowboy Member Posts: 83

    Except that slugging is a lousy counter, especially against people on comms. They recover and then get up, unless you literally stand on them, which means you are probably losing at least one gen.

  • WuhelmWuhelm Member Posts: 39

    Nothing is wrong is current DS it is a waste to talk about when we have so many other issues. DS is working and most player are very happy with the change.

  • Mister_xDMister_xD Member Posts: 2,391

    you would still have one person down and one rescuing them, which would mean 2 people off of generators at that time.

    thats better than taking the DS or just ignoring them.

  • WuhelmWuhelm Member Posts: 39

    I did, it was pointless and just another QQ change on a skill that is fine the way it is.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 2,688

    Not a QoL change. Please stop misusing that term, using it like that defeats the point of the term.

  • ArrowTheGreat11ArrowTheGreat11 Member Posts: 34

    I can agree to that. I like to run Unbreakable for that reason alone, but letting the timer run during a chase defeats its purpose of it being an “anti-tunneling” perk unless there’s a survivor that’s bad at extending chases

  • HatCreatureHatCreature Member Posts: 2,239

    That is tunneling in the stretchiest form of stretchyness, I would literally chase someone else, lose them, randomly somehow unintentionally find the last dude I hooked and down them well after 60 seconds, not a true tunnel or even unfair in the slightest, just unlucky for both parties. And this happens to me more than i'd like with losing someone, not proud of it.

    This also does not address the end game scenario with 2 Survivors who unhooked the 3rd and the Exit is open. Right now you can slug that unhooked person because you expect them to have D-Strike. Now with your idea it forces you to hit them and then hit someone else and down them, now with your change both of those Survivors would run to the open Exit after getting hit and leave because they KNOW that if they stay then their friend is doomed. Now that person who got unhooked gets away 100% because you have no counter to their extremely powerful perk in the end game. If you pick them up, they get away, if you slug them, they get away very slowly and taunt you the whole time. Right now I could slug them and try to down the other person, if they get away I at least can hope that the slugged person doesn't reach the Exit in time, I have hope and that's fair.

    Arrow and NMCKE suggested a timer that doesn't go down in chase, I like that but the timer will have to be smaller and you should still be able to slug to counter it.

  • Bbbrian2013Bbbrian2013 Member Posts: 2,078

    @Mister_xD People have started countering the DS counter by just jumping into a locker.

    Then you have to either grab them out or leave the area.

    You can combine this with head on and fire crackers as well to triple stun.

    Get DS>Hop in locker>DS>Wait 5 seconds>Head on>Drop cracker and run.

    Slugging isn't a proper counter/ds strategy anymore you can only give them a free 60 second immunity if they're not dumb.

  • killersarecowardskillersarecowards Member Posts: 5

    Ds is fine. Quit whining

  • PolarBearPolarBear Member Posts: 1,162

    2 changes I would like to see for ds.

    1. It only activates if the killer picks you up, grabs won't activate it. (This will stop survivors from using ds as 60 seconds of invincibility and actually use it as an anti tunneling tool.)
    2. DS no longer works on self-unhook. (Most of the time this becomes a problem when used in combination with Deliverance. You unhook in front of the killer and they have no choice but to either leave you on the ground and in most cases you will probably get picked up, or they have to eat the ds and let you go for free. This will also make it so a survivor doesn't get a free escape because they just got lucky, e.g a gate is open nearby and the survivor unhooks themselves and the killer can only hope they miss the skillcheck)
  • Mister_xDMister_xD Member Posts: 2,391

    okay, since the talk about it has drastically increased, i decided to make one overall post on why i personally dislike the timer idea.

    when i created my idea of DS, i came up with the two points that i disliked most about the current version. those were:

    1) the killers ability to slug the survivor until the timer ran out

    2) the survivors ability to use those 60 seconds as a "get out of jail for free card" and go for unsafe hook rescues. the killer would be hit by DS no matter who he goes for.

    looking at those it became apperant, that both were caused by the timer the perk has. so when i created my version of the perk, my main goal was to get rid of the timer and instead give it a clear activation condition, which is "the last person that has been hooked gets their DS" that way the killer wouldnt be able to just slug and evade it, but there would also be no more than 1 DS in the game.

    Since i made it very easy for the killer to remove DS from one survivor, i allowed the Survivor to keep the perk active, until it gets taken away from the killers actions.

    i felt like adding another way for the perk to run out would just have been an overkill at that point.

    i get your point @HatCreature, but i just do not think of this scenario ever happening if you're a decent killer. all you gotta do is hook someone else and the perk is gone. that is not too hard, especially if you have BBQ with you, since your next victim is already shown to you. yes, potentially you could get D-Striked by someone that you didnt intentionally tunnel, but again: that scenario is very unlikely to happen for decent killers, unless you always run back to the hook immediately instead of committing to the current chase / hint where someone is, which is exactly what DS is trying to punish.

    timers in general are way too exploitable imo, which is another main reason why i didnt want to include one. i have seen the suggestion of the timer simply stopping in certain scenarios, which sounds good at first, but there are possible "counters" to it that eigther are just stupid or make no sense. pretty much all of these have been previousy seen on Legion and had to be removed due to the killer exploiting a tactic called "moonwalking" (chasing a survivor without being in a chase, therefore waiting fot the timer to run out). this would be just as absurd as the current slugging, which is why i think its not a good idea to add. how about the timer stops when in the kilelrs TR? stealth killers would be able to just turn their TR off and then wait for the timer to run out / the survivors could always stay near the killer and would never lose their DS again. or what if the killer didnt find you, chases someone else, your timer runs out and then the killer spots you again and immediately starts tunneling you, before you even had a chance at healing or anything, would that be fine?

    a timer just has too many flaws and is too vague. a clear activation condition is much better imo, since it allows the killer to play around it. the killer knows who has DS and who hasnt, currently you cant say that properly. i see a ot of players who cant tell weather someone has DS or not and i see a lot of players trying to wait out the timer, but then waiting far too long, leading to rather boring situations where the survivor cant do anything, the killer can neigther and its just annoying.


    i hope i could make it more clear now, why i didnt use a timer for my idea and why i personally wouldnt want to include one eigther.

    have a nice day / night!

  • HatCreatureHatCreature Member Posts: 2,239

    I understand why you don't want the timer, it can be exploited by people who are choosing to do that. I am not saying your idea is bad, I think by hooking someone else and turning off someone else's perk is a good idea, that's really cool and I like that. I just wanted to point out that this perk idea will create some really nasty power plays no one wants to come back. The Devs never imagined that we would use a moonwalk tactic with Legion or not Cleanse against Plague and everyone needs to know that some situations however unlikely can definitely happen a lot because it can. I myself don't like this particular idea and hope it is not chosen despite it being a really cool one.

    When D-Strike was set to be nerfed my suggestion was change the perk to something else and give us the normal D-Strike as an item. An item can be countered by Franklin's and that's all Killers needed, a way to get around an incredibly powerful Survivor ability that in my opinion was never fair.

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