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The Wake Up feature of Adrenaline needs to be less punishing on Freddy.

DudeDeliciousDudeDelicious Member Posts: 4,734
edited August 16 in Feedback and Suggestions

PSA: There’s no arguing that Adrenaline is a very strong perk. But I firstly want to be 100% clear that I do not want this post to divulge into suggested changes/nerfs to the insta-heal and 150% speed boost, or into a NOED vs Adrenaline post either. Save that for another post please, as there are already plenty of them. 


Adrenaline is a strong perk against every single killer in the roster. There’s no dispute here. But for Freddy Adrenaline screws him over much, much more than any other killer with the additional Wake Up feature, much more so than it screwed old Freddy. As a Freddy veteran, Adrenaline was nowhere near that much of a problem to deal with than it is currently, and I will outline why. 


Old Freddy facing Adrenaline wasn’t a tremendously big deal. My meaning being: Adrenaline is a nuisance but it didn’t give old Freddy any greater challenge than what Adrenaline gives to any other killer, even with the additional Wake Up mechanic that the perk provides. The maximum length of time it could take to put a found survivor right back to sleep again would be 9.5 seconds if using Class Photo & Green Dress. So if you were already currently in a chase at Adrenalines activation, it didn’t take long to put the survivor right back to sleep again. Furthermore if all other remaining survivors were awake (due to Adrenaline or otherwise), if old Freddy kept up the run n gun strategy with Dream Demon to re-put all remaining survivors back to sleep again during the endgame, old Freddy was capable of some pretty strong endgame pressure despite being limited offensively to just the basic attack. Endgame pressure, even without NOED, was achieved by:

  • delaying the opening of the exit gates due to the severe action speed penalty (even just the default action speed penalty)
  • directly pressuring survivors by monitoring their auras to know who is going for which gate, or who is on a switch, and acting accordingly, even at the expense of breaking current chases.

This, of course, was exasperated by any add-ons that further debuff survivor action speed, and extrapolated by using Remember Me with maximum tokens, and the Obsession already dead. Even with the change implemented at the onset of EGC with dramatically reduced exit gate opening time, and a significant nerf to Remember Me, old Freddy still had significant capability to draw the endgame out and turn a potentially losing match around.


Now we need to look at the massive, unbalanced problem Adrenaline presents to reworked Freddy, and why the Wake Up mechanic needs to go (but not entirely gone, I’ll explain later).

New Freddy already loses a significant amount of power at the endgame by the total loss of the gen teleport. Adrenaline is so common, and 4 people squads running Adrenaline although far less common are FAR from being rare either. For all intents and purposes, Adrenaline can now render Freddy completely powerless at the endgame for a guaranteed 60 seconds, the survivors being immune to all of Freddys power for a guaranteed 60 seconds except for his basic attack. 


This is bad. Very bad. 

  • No more aura reading anymore with the rework.
  • No more significant debuff with the rework.
  • No power. 
  • No pressure.
  • No susceptibility to Dream Pallets (yeah I know they’re probably not going to be very helpful at endgame anyway)
  • No susceptibility to snares.

For one whole minute unless he manages to hit someone. That’s a very long time in DBD, especially during the endgame.

Adrenaline is already a tremendously strong perk to run regardless of the killer a survivor faces, but it hurts Freddy way too much now and is horrendously unbalanced, especially with how frequently Freddy is going to run up against Adrenaline. 


The Wake Up feature of Adrenaline needs to be adjusted by reducing the amount of time the survivor remains awake before passively falling back asleep. I suggest at least half (30 seconds), preferably 20 seconds.

Post edited by DudeDelicious on

Comments

  • HatCreatureHatCreature Member Posts: 3,262

    I remember someone telling me that they added the wake up to Adrenaline because it made sense, wish they did that for some other features. It made sense that a pure shot of adrenaline, like in the film, would wake them up. Now Survivors will agree with everything said here, Adrenaline is even more powerful against Freddy now than it was before, they can't refute that but that is why they will say it should stay. The only way it will be moved to Wake Up is if the Devs take side of the Killer on this one because the argument for the Survivor side is the exact argument on the Killer.

    1 perk completely nullifies all power that a Killer has, that is not what an asymmetrical game should have and that is why this should be changed.

  • DudeDeliciousDudeDelicious Member Posts: 4,734

    Exactly! The heal and speed boost is already tremendously strong for a survivor regardless of the killer they’re facing. Completely neutering 1 killer in particular with the perk for 1 whole minute with it is a disgusting oversight.

  • DudeDeliciousDudeDelicious Member Posts: 4,734

    No.

    Wrong.

    It’s very OP against Freddy.

    He already loses his Teleport at endgame. Why should survivors get a heal, speed boost, AND 1 whole minute of immunity to his remaining powers?!?!

  • DudeDeliciousDudeDelicious Member Posts: 4,734

    Long story short, Wake Up needs to be removed from Adrenaline

  • DudeDeliciousDudeDelicious Member Posts: 4,734
    edited August 14

    No. Again, wrong.

    I invested a monumental amount of time into old Freddy, and know exactly what I’m talking about. Did you even read how Adrenalines wake up wasn’t a tremendously big deal against an experienced Freddy player before the rework?!?!

    Sure he still only could M1, but you could see which gates people are going for AND it SLOWED the opening of the gates. An experienced Freddy knew how to use that to make the remaining survivors suffer.

    Now, against Adrenaline, Freddy has 60 seconds of M1, that’s it. No teleport any more, and 60 seconds of no dream pallets or no snares UNLESS he finds someone to hit.

    Geez. How are people not wrapping their heads around this?!?!

  • TR_stonezTR_stonez Member Posts: 39

    Here we go with the nerf adrenaline b.s. Some killers need some kind of counterplay. Freddy' happen to be affected more than the others doesn't mean it has to be in the nerfed. If you don't like it freddy has two perks that slow down the endgame also noed helps. There is a counter to adrenaline it's called git gud and dont let the survivors get the gens done. Or you can not play freddy


    Also the name of the perk is called adrenaline

  • DudeDeliciousDudeDelicious Member Posts: 4,734

    Geez dude, I didn’t say anything about nerfing the heal or speed boost, those are things every other killer just needs to fricken deal with and get over.

    What Adrenaline DOESN’T do to any other killer is provide IMMUNITY to any remaining power the killer has for a FULL 60 SECONDS (which in DBD is a bloody long time).

    That is far FAR too OP.

    I’m astonished that people can’t see that!!!

  • PolarBearPolarBear Member Posts: 1,863

    Adrenaline is extremely powerful in general. The wake up is just salt in the wounds of Freddy players. It was a literal nightmare for the Nightmare to deal with adrenaline before the rework.

  • rinarina Member Posts: 90

    No it doesn’t. They are asleep again once you hit them, so it doesn’t matter now.

  • DudeDeliciousDudeDelicious Member Posts: 4,734

    IF you hit them. IF.

    If you’re in a chase with survivors hoping for snares or pallets to assist you, you’re screwed against good jukers & loopers. And any snares you set up in anticipation of endgame? Complete waste of time.

  • TR_stonezTR_stonez Member Posts: 39
    edited August 14

    Oh I do thats why I called it counterplay and getting rid of the wake up part is considered a nerf so Yeah you kinda did talk about a nerf

    Just be thankful your Not a pig who's ability is more useless endgame than all other killers

  • rinarina Member Posts: 90

    If you can’t hit survivor without fake pallets/snares then you are not good enough to win, simple as that.

  • DudeDeliciousDudeDelicious Member Posts: 4,734

    It truly didn’t screw over old Freddy like it does new Freddy.

    Old Freddy dealing with Adrenaline = default wait to put back to sleep to be susceptible to hits, action debuff, and aura reading: 7 seconds.

    New Freddy dealing with Adrenaline = sure can hit anytime you get close, BUT IF YOU DON’T GET CLOSE ENOUGH TO PUT THEM BACK TO SLEEP WITH A HIT means 60 seconds of useless snares or useless dream pallets. You have your M1 during that time. That’s it!

  • DudeDeliciousDudeDelicious Member Posts: 4,734

    Oh.

    My.

    God.

    It’s not about “good enough” or “bad enough”, it’s about fairness.

    No other killer has their power nullified to this level of severity.

    How about Adrenaline is changed so that it just neutralises every single killers ability for potentially a whole 60 seconds?!?!

    Does that insanity sound much more fitting?!?!

  • PolarBearPolarBear Member Posts: 1,863

    Yeah but if you had multiple survivors asleep and they had adrenaline you were instantly screwed. The thing about survivors being asleep after all gens were done is that they couldn't wake themselves up anymore by themselves. They either needed to be injured and miss a skillcheck themselves with either a medkit or self care or find a teammate and if all survivors were full health and asleep, you couldn't wake up.

  • DudeDeliciousDudeDelicious Member Posts: 4,734

    Hallelujah.

    Another person that “gets it”

    The Wake Up feature of Adrenaline, when it was first added made sense, because it gives the survivor a surge of Adrenaline, and it was a somewhat fair feature to add to the perk because it really didn’t give Freddy any tremendously big disadvantage over any other killer because it was so ridiculously easy to put survivors back to sleep again, especially when’s using a range add on and/or Class Photo (please, I’ve been playing Freddy a LONG time, I know exactly what i’m talking about. Awake survivors at endgame was not a big challenge to take care of).

    NOW when Adrenaline activates you need to get a hit in for his snares or pallets to have any value at endgame. Otherwise any survivors not hit by Freddy have 60 seconds of immunity from pallets, but worse than that is the immunity to snares. Attempting to salvage the match at endgame is already a challenge for most killers. Adrenaline rendering one particular killer to just an M1 killer with no power for up to a minute during the killers most difficult stage of the game is unacceptable.

  • TR_stonezTR_stonez Member Posts: 39
    edited August 14

    Not unless you count the pig who's main ability is more useless, yeah you have your crouch but honestly it's meant to mostly ambush survivors doing gens you, normally don't want to use it mid chase. She litterally get screwed over by endgame collapse not a perk an in game mechanic she's affected worse than freddy

  • BradyBrady Member Posts: 1,176

    Comapred to old Freddy? No, I'm not wrong.

    He can still M1 them unlike old freddy... He had to wait 7 seconds?

    His powers just Snares or fake pallets, which aren't even that good anyway lol

  • PolarBearPolarBear Member Posts: 1,863

    Pig's ambush can be used in chases. It's a great tool that can be used at loops to dash and hit the survivors.

    Pig's RBTs not being active in the endgame also isn't a big deal as their main purpose isn't to kill survivors but stall the game. It's not wise to save them for the end of the match and hope to rng that you get a kill.

    You can also still trap when there's 1 gen left so endgame pig is still an option.

  • DudeDeliciousDudeDelicious Member Posts: 4,734

    But if Freddy continued “run n gun” Dream Demon whilst searching out the remaining awake survivors, whilst monitoring the auras of those that ARE asleep in case one heads to a gate OR gives away the location of another survivor because you see the Wake Up animation occurring, then EVERY survivor being woken up by Adrenaline was not a significant challenge for Freddy, provided the player knew exactly what they were doing.

  • TR_stonezTR_stonez Member Posts: 39

    I know but usually a smart survivor knows what to do vs an ambush I've rarely have been hit by it at loops also im aware that traps aren't used for endgame or kills they are used to slow down the match but it still renders them useless

  • DudeDeliciousDudeDelicious Member Posts: 4,734

    Sorry, but you are wrong.

    If every survivor was awake at endgame against old Freddy (due to Adrenaline or otherwise) then getting a hit in ASAP on the first survivor you came across was the least of Freddys priorities, making the transition time redundant, whether that was 3 seconds or 9.5 seconds. Unless NOED was at play, but even then you’d want to slug because wasting time to get someone onto a hook was a big gamble.

    Old Freddys priority at endgame was no different than the rest of the trial: finding and getting every single survivor asleep ASAP, and THEN planning your attack. The only thing you do differently from the rest of the trial is break chase (or break from searching) when you spot on aura heading to a gate, or already on a gate switch.

  • PolarBearPolarBear Member Posts: 1,863

    Yes. Unless the survivors of course aren't grouped up. It becomes difficulty to put survivors asleep quickly enough and can singlehandedly lose Freddy multiple kills.

  • toxicmeggtoxicmegg Member Posts: 166

    but let's be realistic. if your body releases alot of adrenaline, you simply can't be asleep after that. so stop crying and play some other killer if that bothers you so bad.

  • DudeDeliciousDudeDelicious Member Posts: 4,734

    Post edited with an adjusted idea.

  • Yung_SlugYung_Slug Member Posts: 930

    So... let me get this straight.


    Old Freddy vs. Adrenaline:

    • Loses auras of all survivors there were in the dream state
    • Loses all pressure and slowdown from dream state
    • Literally has to start over as his powers are completely negated
    • Cannot realistically put everyone back into dream state to have some kind of semblance of pressure unless he uses a purple add-on (Class Photo)
    • Has to wait to put people back in dream state before hitting them, even if someone is almost done with an exit gate

    New Freddy vs. Adrenaline:

    • Dream state honestly doesn't do much anyway, as teleport can't be used in endgame
    • Slowdown is only negated if you use the relatively weak slowdown add-ons
    • Adrenaline only negates pallets/snares, only realistic benefit is avoiding snared exit gates
    • Not as difficult for survivors to wake up in endgame anyway
    • Can hit survivors immediately, which also puts them back in the dream
    • Not that different from what any other killer has to go through

    So... how is this worse than old Freddy?

    I'd like to point out that Freddy's power is now designed to be strong early game and weaken as the game progresses. You referenced old Freddy's ability to keep pressure in the end game and make it last much longer than other killers (except maybe Pig before she got butchered), but new Freddy is not designed to do this, and making this change will not give Freddy much more ability to do this.

    Freddy is not an endgame killer anymore. Changing Adrenaline will not change that fact. If you have 4 living survivors and the exit gates are powered, then much like any other killer, you've pretty much lost the game already, with or without your powers.

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