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Battle Pass/Rift Discussion

2

Comments

  • indieeden7indieeden7 Member Posts: 630

    Two different teams are in charge of these areas if the game.

  • fcc2014fcc2014 Member Posts: 3,769

    @MiniPixels here is how i see it. BHVR will do what they want regardless. It was in a survey as a question when the play was already to add a pass to a game that was not free. Members of the community were outraged at the pass but it is simply this.


    If you don't want it don't buy it. I don't purchase cosmetics anymore. they are all just skins. The idea of paying for the right to unlock new skins in a game i already paid for plus additional content and chapters feels slimy to me so i just won't .

  • Mr_KMr_K Member Posts: 275

    Is BHVR listening to EA consultants again?

  • joker7997joker7997 Member Posts: 123

    So I believe timed cosmetics would be if you don't get them during that battle pass season they never become available again. Why in the hell would there ever be cosmetics that disappear eventually? That's ridiculous why would any company do that

  • TheHoodedOneTheHoodedOne Member Posts: 5,523

    I don't mind the Battle Pass, they did not say it was necessary, its optional so you choose to buy it or not


    I know I am buying it

  • joker7997joker7997 Member Posts: 123

    Pretty much all things in life that are ongoing cost money. Membership at a country club costs money, going to the movies cost money, going to a bar costs money. Living breathing video games with continuing content have gone to this model for a long time now. This isn't a one player stagnant game that you can play alone forever and that noone is spending money developing. Why is there some expectation that bhvr should work for free? They aren't even making you pay monthly for it like a subscription game. If you don't want any of the new [BAD WORD] then don't buy any of it and freeload off the system, but don't come here and cry about it. Spend a couple hundred bucks on a game you've spent 3 years playing? Big deal. That's a meal at a nice restaurant spread over three years. If you can't afford it, don't come here and cry about it, the rest of us would like to support hard working folks and get more and more content.

  • KilmeranKilmeran Member Posts: 1,537

    @Mr_K I have to be honest here: That thought crossed my mind as well.

  • White_OwlWhite_Owl Member Posts: 1,529
    edited September 11

    Personally that is what I dislike about battlepasses is that they are timed, which means they cater only to people who can play everyday. It's not a surprise the battlepass model became so popular with Fortnite, a game played mostly by kids.

    Imo the content should be available in the store or in some other way for people who can't afford the time investment a battlepass requires. They did it with the halloween skins, so there's hope they'll do it again.

  • SpacingLlamasSpacingLlamas Member Posts: 252

    @Mr_K @Kilmeran

    Dev McCote did use to work at EA, at one point in his life. So none of this is surprising to me

  • MadjuraMadjura Member Posts: 776


    That is the least bad solution. Hopefully that is how they are implemented. Another sensible alternative is a system that is similar to the reward tracks in Guild Wars 2 PvP modes: Once unlocked you can activate whichever one you want and fill it up to unlock the rewards (though all of the reward tracks are unlocked immediately or by completing certain ingame objectives). I would be fine with a system where you buy the different battlepass tracks either as DLC directly or with Auric Cells and get to keep them forever. Then you activate whichever one you want and progress is tracked only for that particular one, but you can switch at any time you want.

    That still has the downside that the developers can upsell crappy cosmetics that no one wants by bundling them into a battlepass track that has cosmetics that a particular player wants but whose value is less than the total cost of the battlepass track. That however seems to be an inherent problem with battlepass systems, I don't think there is a way around that.

    To make that more clear, an example:

    • the battlepass costs 1500 Auric Cells (this is just an example, no pricing structure has been confirmed to my knowledge, as of the time I am writing this)
    • the battlepass has a complete outfit, those sell for a bit over 1000 Auric Cells (I don't know the exact price off the top of my head)
    • the battlepass also has a bunch of recolored outfits worth a total of 800 Auric Cells

    In this example you get stuff worth 1800 Auric Cells for the cost of 1500 Auric Cells. You save 300 Auric Cells! However the only thing you really want is the outfit which would normally be sold for 1000 Auric Cells in the store. Unfortunately it is exclusive to the battlepass track and so the only way to get what you want is to pay 800 Auric Cells extra for stuff you don't care about.

    If you are one of the people who want everything in the battlepass then it is a positive for you, but for the majority of players this can be expected to not be the case. Most likely the battlepass will contain old cosmetics and some new ones (as of the time of writing this is not confirmed and just speculation) - if you care about the old cosmetics then you could have bought them at any time beforehand. Therefore old cosmetics in the battlepass will, for pretty much any player, be cosmetics they would not pay the store price for. This lowers the overall value they get out of of the battlepass and will, in most situations, mean players have to pay extra to get the things they want.

    In the end battlepass systems are exclusively anti-consumer: For the vast majority consumers there is no advantage that battlepass systems have that can't be achieved with other systems.

  • xmenfanaticxmenfanatic Member Posts: 718

    I’m looking froward to getting more cosmetics for a cheaper price.

  • PrincessPoopPrincessPoop Member Posts: 392

    Exactly this. Please just release the skins to the store once the battlepass is over. If you grind/buy the pass, you are getting skins for FREE or a highly discounted price (and getting them first), while people who wait to buy them in the store will have to wait 3 months and pay more money.

    There doesn’t need to be timed exclusivity to make the battlepass worth it. If the battlepass does turn out to be timed exclusive skins, I will be extremely upset since this game isn’t even free to play, and the devs said themselves they no longer wanted exclusive skins.

  • AttackfrogAttackfrog Member Posts: 924

    When you think about it though, it actually makes sense.

    People that play more often will likely spend money on this service...which makes sense when they use it more.

    If you think of this game like a service, paying for this makes sense.

  • MiniPixelsMiniPixels Member Posts: 43

    So I woke up this morning to 20 new comments on my thread. And yes, clearly I did misunderstand what people meant by "timed cosmetics". Super sorry for the misunderstanding. Didn't mean to scare people if I did. Honestly though after hearing peoples thoughts and opinions I'm not too worked up about it anymore. I'm sure behavior will handle things in a way that will make most people happy. Thanks everyone for your input. I'm so glad I got some people to come together and discuss other possibilities.

  • MadjuraMadjura Member Posts: 776

    See my post, especially the example, above.

    You can only get cosmetics you don't already have, because duplicates that you can trade away or so don't exist. Therefore you could already buy the old cosmetics that you can get from the battlepass, right now, if you wanted to.

    Why do you not buy them? Most likely because you don't think they are worth the price, or you want to wait for the battlepass to get a kind of discount.

    You could have access to discounts if the devs implemented a weekly/monthly/quarterly sale. What makes that system better is that you then have more control over what you buy. If you pay 1500 Auric Cells (numbers taken from my example above) to get 1800 Auric Cells worth of cosmetics then you save 300 Auric Cells if, and only if, you like all the cosmetics and would have bought them independently of them being in the battlepass.

    Another example (worth refers to the price in the store):

    • the battlepass contains a new outfit, that you like, worth 1000 Auric Cells
    • it contains old cosmetics, that you like, but feel are not worth the current price so you don't buy them, worth 300 Auric Cells
    • it contains old cosmetics, that you don't like, and would not buy ever, worth 500 Auric Cells
    • the battlepass costs 1500 Auric Cells

    You still get 1800 Auric Cells worth of value. However you only really care about the new outfit and some of the old cosmetics, with a combined value of 1300 Auric Cells. In this case you have to pay 200 Auric Cells extra for the cosmetics you don't like, because it is the only way you can get the new outfit. If the outfit is also sold in the store directly (either immediately or a while after the battlepass launches) then you get no discount: You pay 1000 Auric Cells for the outfit, 300 Auric Cells for the old cosmetics you like.

    With a system based on rotating sales you might have to wait until the things you like go on sale, but you have more control over what you spend. With the battlepass there is a decently high chance that there is not actually a discount if you don't want all of the things in but the system is designed in such a way that you believe there is one to make you spend more money.

  • DarkskiesDarkskies Member Posts: 359

    I for one would over joyed if I could buy the battle pass with shards I have like over 40k I never see any outfits I like to buy off the store with them so they just sit un used.

    I highly doubt they will allow us to pay with shards but I hope they consider it as it would be good to be rewarded for my devotion I've put in.

    Or make more cosmetic for shards that are decent please i can't be the only one that's hording shards because they see nothing to buy with them??

    🐷❤️

  • MiniPixelsMiniPixels Member Posts: 43

    Thanks not_Queen for your input! I'm very happy that people have come together to discuss things and shut down my concerns, and hopefully other peoples as well!

  • JESUS_CHRISTJESUS_CHRIST Member Posts: 296

    Are they reusing skins that were previously for sale like somebody said? Doing that with the real money only skins would be a bit dirty imo. I guess it's not much different than a game or its DLC getting cheaper with time or going on sale shortly after you buy it but it still feels a bit wrong with skins to me. I don't care too much even if that's the case, and if I like what's included and have the time I'll get it.

  • MadjuraMadjura Member Posts: 776

    A problem that I haven't seen discussed in this thread (but in older ones) yet:

    Battlepass systems are bad for people suffering from video game addiction and encourage unhealthy play patterns in general.

    This is due to the feeling of missing out on things if the system is limited to a specific timeframe. If each battlepass track is available only for 3 months for example (this is just an example, nothing has been confirmed) then the closer the deadline comes the more people are encouraged to spend time on the game. This is due to two reasons:

    • you miss out on content that might never come back (cosmetics exclusive to the battlepass)
    • you spent money and don't get your money's worth if you don't grind out the battlepass to the max

    When I brought this up in the past people have said that it is not the developer's responsibility to care about people's mental health. I disagree heavily with this. A timed battlepass preys on people who are either already suffering from video game addiction or encourages unhealthy play patterns by playing more than they normally would. Some people are also more suspectible to this effect than others due to their personality. I don't have any statistics at hand but I feel like it can universally be accepted that there are some people who care more about having every item/cosmetic in a game than others. These are the kind of people who will then spend more time than they normally would in the game not for recreation, but out of an urge or sense of obligation to have items that they can otherwise never get again.

    A timed battlepass where the cosmetics are then put into the store addresses the first point from above, but not the second one. There might be reasons a certain player is unable to progress on the battlepass track, such as unexpectedly having no internet for a few days but this is just ONE example, who is then not only encouraged but rewarded to play more to the point where they neglect their life outside of the game to not have their money wasted.

    The solution is very easy:

    • battlepasses are not timed in any way, you can always buy them and always complete them at your leisure

    A non-timed battlepass system has no disadvantages for any players. Anything else is problematic for the reasons outlined above: encouragement of unhealthy play patterns, preying on people suffering from video game addiction or having an "addiction-prone" personality.

  • KilmeranKilmeran Member Posts: 1,537
    edited September 11

    @Madjura Another thing those who claim that it isn't up to the developers to care about players' mental health seem to forget is the very cold reality that if the game developers continue to not care, various governments will.

    Thus, what is happening with lootboxes. If battlepasses expand enough throughout the industry and raise the right flags concerning video game addiction and/or other mental health triggers, they'll one day be on the radar as well.

  • immortalls96immortalls96 Member Posts: 1,232

    Honestly I see it as a way to reward grinders.., blus adding cool little niches like these help the game stay fresh, plus these things tend to come out with a lot of nest new things..now granted we do need to be sure not to go too far with it or it could end up giving people a sour outlook on it

  • ExerlinExerlin Member Posts: 226

    I'd love if they gave us infinite time on passes! I think that the passes are going to be quest based, as in you have to trap x amount of survivors as trapper to advance, so all they have to do is make it so you can only have one active at a time, but can swap freely between any rifts you own. The only other thing we need to worry about is how you purchase the passes. Maybe they can all be available for purchase, but the newest one is on sale?

  • RaccoonRaccoon Member Posts: 1,741

    I do not understand how people can complain about / praise this idea when there is no real data or information regarding it in terms of cost, duration, rewards, etc.

  • KenshinKenshin Member Posts: 515

    when is this even coming out? next mid chapter?

  • MiniPixelsMiniPixels Member Posts: 43

    The exact date was never confirmed, but a estimate was mid chapter 13, but don't get your hopes up. Nothing is confirmed.

  • KilmeranKilmeran Member Posts: 1,537
    edited September 11

    Oh, I'm aware. In late 2018, I used to point that out to folks here at the forums. 😃

    I can liken several things in DbD to the "EA model," so to speak, and his time with EA shows.

    But Behavior is still better than Blizzard Team 4 (the Overwatch dev team). Yeah, Kaplan and his team can rot. If nothing else, at least I feel like Behavior cares. Might not always agree with their direction for DbD, but that goes for any live service game. Players and Devs will never align all of the time.

    But at the end of the day, I'm happy to make DbD my main game moving forward. Albeit on my limited play time.

  • joker7997joker7997 Member Posts: 123

    We live in a for profit world. If we didn't, you wouldn't have DBD, you'd be living in a mud hut at best, fishing by the river or foraging for berries every day. For profit companies cannot really worry about the 0.1% of people that can't control themselves. If it wasn't video games, theyd be buying crap on Amazon or God knows what. This is why we have alcoholics and drug addicts, but still make alcohol and pain meds, for the majority of people that can responsibly use them. It's not like bhvr is selling cigarettes to little kids lol.

  • KilmeranKilmeran Member Posts: 1,537
    edited September 11

    @joker7997 I'm well aware what capitalism is. I've been a fiction author for over 25 years, plus have worked in licensing, table-top games, video games, television, and comics books for Marvel. I'm not only well aware of capitalism, but I'm intimately aware of the relationship between the entertainment industry and its consumer base.

    So don't presume to preach to me. I've done it for a living for over a quarter of a century.

    And if the companies and studios will not police themselves, then the government will eventually do it for them. It might take a specific one party or another to be in control of both chambers of Congress (speaking from a U.S. standpoint), but it will eventually happen.

    It has in the past with network television. It's happened in the past with some aspects of cable television. It's currently in the early stages with social media investigations and potential regulations. And there have already been talks about lootboxes within the United States, never mind the countries overseas that have already gone after them.

    If battlepasses are deemed to be predatory based on addiction triggers, then they'll eventually have their due as well. It doesn't matter how you feel about them, or how I feel about them, anymore than that's mattered in regards to the lootbox issue. It matters how the elected officials in Washington view them, should battlepasses get on their radar.

  • joker7997joker7997 Member Posts: 123

    If you really think anyone in government gives two shits about battlepasses in video games I dont even know what to say to you bro lol.

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