I don't get it. He's not great, but he can insta down you, or a whole team at once if they play stupid. Sure, he can be countered, I don't deny that. But that instadown potential puts him above Wraith, at the least.
He has no map pressure. He can be looped into oblivion. He has to be right on top of a survivor to be able to instadown them. Relying on survivors playing stupidly in order to get the upper hand is just proof of how poor he is. Even his add ons don't give him much of a boost in potential.
Unlike the Wraith who has stealth ability, and some solid add ons that make him really dangerous with a potential to snowball even a good team of survivors. Silent Wraith with the ghost soot and coxcomb clapper is my favorite.
Hes the worst Killer because of how little map pressure he can produce. Yes, he has a insta down saw that can hit multiple Survivors, but that's situational at best really.
He used to be able to insta-down multiple Survivors while they unhooked another in the basement, hence why hes always mentioned when talking about basement camping or camping builds in-general. Because that's all hes really good for honestly.
His only good build is Enduring + Spirit Fury + Ruin + ???. And that's really it, nothing else really makes him stand out. Granted, people do main him and he is viable in high level play, its just not so... "noob friendly" as Billy is, or how Myers is.
In green ranks he dominates because of the massive amount of mistakes the Survivors do in that rank, in Red Ranks hes a push over. Unless you know how to play him, hes generally an awful Killer and I've P3-50'ed him, and it was a nightmare. To get a 4k with him, you have to really work for it and that's saying something...
I honestly, truly, without a shadow of a doubt, think he's worse than Pre-patch Freddy. I honestly believe that, and stand by it 100%. At least Freddy was fun despite being one of the worst Killers... Leatherface isn't fun, even when you're winning.
@GrootDude would love to prove me wrong though lmao. But its just my opinion after all.
I feel like a lot of the reason Leather Face gets a lot of flak is because of just how pointless he is when Billy exists in the game.
The only thing Leather Face can reasonably do better than Hillbilly is camping a hook. Leatherface can't even mind game his chainsaw since he has a cooldown and slow down to put it away while Billy puts his away instantly with no slow down.
It takes him a while to go through and scavenge survivors, which takes many killers a while to figure out and get a down. He has 0 map pressure that by the time the killer catches someone, 3 gens or more should be getting pumped. It takes him a while to charge his chainsaw, his kit is just overshadowed and outdated compared to newer killers.
Billy does his job much better, GhostFace and Myers do his one-shot much better, and he has the worst map pressure in the game. No his not bad, he's terrifyingly crap.
I gotta tell you, you’re wrong here, his speed add ons give him an anti-loop power, you don’t always have to be right behind them to saw them and he only relies on survivor mistakes if the bubba doesn’t know what he is doing.
His map pressure is the same as a lot of killers.
I will say that I’ve always wondered why billy has no cooldown for putting a saw away but yet LF does.
Fun is subjective though and I find LF fun. I actually use a variety of builds and rarely use the perks you mentioned, you can still get multiple survivors but you gotta time it right and if they have bt then you should hope you get there sooner.
A lot of killers have the same map pressure as LF but opinions are opinions I guess.
Stats show that clown is the worst killer, and imo LF is actually really good.
1) no map pressure due to "normal mobility".
2) no gen stall potential.
3) no actual anti-loop.
4) less forgiving than Hillbilly when it comes to making mistakes in chases.
5) huge punishment for bumping into stuff unlike Hillbilly.
6) requires a "calm" player with map awareness for efficient chainsaw plays. Average players will m1 survivors when things get hectic especially if windows, pallets or weirdly shaped objects and narrow places (i.e. lery's bedrooms) are involved.
A "calm" Bubba main with lots of map knowledge and "chainsaw experience" however will always calculate the "chainsaw potential" during a chase as in (chainsaw distance/charge time/acceleration).
Long story short: Bubba only has lethality going for him which isn't even used to its full potential in case of the "average" player making him a killer with no power in many cases.
It really is subjective when it comes to fun, for me, I don't find it fun to use a borderline worthless power when at Red Ranks.
But maybe that's because I don't use it like you do, Idk. I don't main the guy, so I can't really say if he is better than the worst Killer. But from what I've gathered, and from what I endured when P3-50ing him, its safe so say that it has some truth behind it...
That doesn't mean he can't be good in someone elses hands, or in the future my own if I put enough time into it. But like many things, some things I and many others don't have time to do like we used to i'm afraid...
I’m currently working on getting all the perks on him, I pick up on most killers fairly fast, guess I’m lucky.
Tbh, I put Bubba over Trapper, Clown and Legion in my list. Maybe even over Wraith, but I am not sure.
If you use Beast marks + Tuning guide you won't have an issue chainsawing someone who's trying to loop you.
Scratch marks + primer bulb is also useful if you're just playing casually. The more advanced add-on combo is more for if you're popping a BPS or pudding, and if you add the perks Spirit Fury + Enduring you'll have and even easier time chainsawing someone.
This eliminates the issue where you have to be right next to them, as the distance you can travel is greatly increased! Now if only Award winning chili and Chili actually did something...
I'd say hes better than the clown. And that's about it.
Same, I used to be garbage at Nurse and couldn't down anyone. I played her a bit when returning to DBD and now I can actually down people and somewhat get decent results.
I was even able to face Red Ranks and learn from mistakes I was doing and actually 3k on them. Practice makes perfect, and if I can go from 0k with Nurse to averaging 3ks... than with some time I could find a way to make LeatherFace viable consistently, and even have info to give to others.
But like I said, I don't have time to do that. (Not right now anyways.)
He is talking about base bubba whose anti loop isn’t very good, with add ons it can work pretty well at certain loops. I mostly play base bubba and he can’t counter loops easily without add ons, of course, it is my choice to play without them though.
Oh I know he is, i'm just saying if you add those things it can limit the headaches.
As for base Bubba... we don't talk about those dark times... (Seriously though, base Bubba is the worst base Killer... If someone can 4k in Red Ranks with a competent SWFs with base Bubba, to you sir I salute!)
He can get looped for ages. He has no ability that gives him higher mobility or helps him find survivors faster or down survivors faster. (Against good survivors, you often aren't able to use the chainsaw and have to rely on hitting instead.)
His only strength is "hook defense". He is still better than Legion.
I face good survivors all the time, I can still 3/4K, once you learn how to play bubba you can succeed with him. Also, his chainsaw is very well useable against good survivors.
We have different definitions of "good survivors" then. Great for you that you win most of your matches, but really, if the survivors would really play well, Leatherface would not be powerful enough to beat them.
If you can chainsaw them, that means the survivors were either in a dead zone or they messed up a loop really bad.
If you combine The Beast's Marks addon with Carberator Tuning Guide or Bulb
Bubba's chainsaw power becomes actually really good if you use those two
Combing Bulb and Tuning guide for an insta saw is nice but it's much weaker compared to the beast marks
Thats gotta be painful... Id much rather play base Clown than base Bubba.
He requires add-ons to be partially viable or specific perks which is always bad for a killer. Add-ons really should enhance game play logistics rather then be a requirement for general play.
Insidious would be the forth perk.
Thats for camping, this isn't a camping build.
The fourth perk can either be Nurses, Brutal Strength, Pop goes the weasel, etc. Insidious is for if you're going to camp the basement.
Youd be surprised how far territorial imperative can carry you as a Bubba. You always have someone who wants that chest...followed by people trying to fetch the first.
Even though he has that insta-down, he has to charge it up which takes time, unlike regular hits, which isn't good in loops.
He has no map pressure, which Wraith can have with the right Add-ons.
He's also a very regular Killer, with which i mean he has a Terror Radius, giving them ample time to run away, while with Wraith you can sneak up to people, which is especially good on indoor maps & in cornfields.
If you land the Surprise Hit with Wraith, you have successfully cut down half of the chase right there, practically making it a 1-hit chase now.
Wraith is indeed weak when IN a loop, definitely can't deny that.
Wraith simply has more tools than Cannibal.
Him being able to hit multiple Survivors is something that's just not useful once the Survivors know how to deal with him.
Well yeah, it's good for camping, but that's just no fun to me.
It might also cost you the entire match because you'll get genrushed for camping.
Leatherface has little to no help in the chase, and just like hillbilly a simple good timed pallet can ruin the power
Wraith is quicker, stronger, and has more tools at his will to take down the survivor
Leatherface can only punish survivors whom failed, getting multiple survivors will happen rarely outside from camping
Leatherface also may be a 1 shot down but his power charge up feels slow and hitting a wall punishes him too much
Wraith is actually harder to play against than Leatherface. Both are camping geniuses but Wraith is very hard to lose and he can walk faster while cloaked, which makes it easier for him to exert map pressure and chase survivors, and he has add-ons which help like Windstorm, and his other add-ons are great for slowing the game down and finding survivors and even stealthing and mindgaming.
The only thing LF has going for him is his AOE area down, but if you stay away from him -- which is easy because he is slow and has no movement bonuses except those crappy add ons of his that barely help -- he is the easiest killer to go against by far and I say this as a guy who sucks at looping. He is just bad at chasing and none of his addons help. I mean, he has addons that "reduce chainsaw noise" lol what the heck?
Tbf, I play worse against bubba... my brain goes "he's bubba, I can loop him easily. Herp derp"
I also think clown is worse than him.
@GrootDude "I will say that I’ve always wondered why billy has no cooldown for putting a saw away but yet LF does."
I believe that's because billy needs to wait for the charging bar to go down while bubba doesn't.
I'm not too sure, but after losing distance while revving, I think his actual chainsaw attack doesnt cover as much distance as normal walking too.
That means that its rather hard to hit survivors you didnt touch when you started revving your saw.
Additionally, he gets slowed more than HB, has a longer charge time AND a clunkier charge mechanic. (Those 99.5% fails).
You answered your own question in the first post. He relies on survivors making mistakes rather than making plays himself.
Blindly rushing an unhook, running to deadzones of the map, etc... He realistically isn't going to land many chainsaws in a match against competent survivors who are putting some effort into surviving.
With the amount of time it takes waiting for a competent survivor to run to an area with poor pallet / window placement so that you can land a chainsaw you would usually be better off just going for double M1's.
Bubba can multi shot survivors but only if they decide to be dimwitted and run in a open space. His add ons need fixing especially chilis. Sometimes you hit objects when you know you shouldn't have. I say this as a p3 bubba but it is satisfying when you just saw your ways through the borrowed time and rescuers