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Gen Times Are Fine

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  • xllxENIGMAxllxxllxENIGMAxllx Member Posts: 923

    Back in the day Legion was faster and his power wasn't that bad. Sure the exploit was the thing to fix not the killer power itself. Now all we have is a killer that get looped despise the 10% increase and have a 4s cooldown with that a full gauge condition.

    I use to main legion since his rework but his power S.CK.

  • CaretakerCaretaker Member Posts: 764

    For sure, I appreciate the advice, don't think I'm just brushing it off. I just play a bit differently is all. :P Same to you, good luck in your games.

  • Atrushan88Atrushan88 Member Posts: 2,083
    edited September 2019

    One thing I'll mention is you said you don't like Sloppy Butcher/Thana, but one, isn't that Legion's main build, and two, if they had we'll make it, they countered you not having Sloppy/Thana.

    I also feel like that second feral frenzy was really bad. I mean you could have had all 3 of those people injured with that most likely if you'd played it right. I really think people are downplaying how big that could have been.

  • CaretakerCaretaker Member Posts: 764

    I'd actually argue that a group of coordinated solos is scarier than a SWF. An SWF will waste time on altruism/possibly make stupid plays to make sure everyone escapes. A killer needs that time/those mistakes to really get the snowball going. There are definitely SWFs that will just burn through you before you can do anything though, but there relatively rare until the red ranks, and even then some tend to que with lower rank players to bully so you might avoid them too.

  • FireHazardFireHazard Member, Trusted Posts: 7,314

    Depends on if the solos actually know what to do, if they don't that's a different story.

    Its rare to even find a coordinated solo team, because there isn't coms like a SWFs has.

  • xllxENIGMAxllxxllxENIGMAxllx Member Posts: 923


    Yes i agree that we can't win every game hopefully. Hillbilly is more of an M1 killer than M2 because solid player will go to pallet and window they are not stupid, your power just gonna get denied no matter how much you try.

    Curving with insta saw like i said will deny a lot of loops. If i should use those add-ons to win than i would play Omega Nurse instead and we know that the most broken thing on this game and unfun to go against.

  • CaretakerCaretaker Member Posts: 764

    Sloppy barely adds like 3s to healing someone else, 6s if you use Self-Care. If I'm remembering the times correctly. Also, Adrenaline completely negates both of those. Thana is 15%? I think at max, assuming I have everyone injured which most of that game I had 2 or so injured so that's only 8%? That's pretty much non-existent and someone had toolbox which would negate it anyway.

    As for We'll Make It, that hard counters both cuz WMI is 100%. Sloppy cuts healing by 20%, add the 2 injured that's 28%. If they even stack cuz I think they made it so they don't stack. Either way, that's still 72% extra healing speed on WMI.

    Everyone says to run Thana/Sloppy on Legion which is a bit of a contradiction and I never liked it. Thana is cuz he injures people, sloppy is for when they heal. However, you shouldn't heal against Legion and a lot of people just rush gens into Adrenaline and ignore healing altogether. The #s just aren't good enough to run those perks imo. I'd rather run my comfort perks.

  • SkaraokSkaraok Member Posts: 36
    edited September 2019

    I feel your pain Caretaker, I was having a ton of fun memeing around with low rank survivors this past weekend. Then ST chapter hits, and on launch day I'm getting P3 tryhard survivors Rank 1-2 every match and forced to play like a bully just to get one kill. Thankfully the game has calmed down a bit for me since Demo's release.

    I really hate playing like a toxic killer, I don't like tunneling cause you lose points for it and you let survivors work on gens uninterrupted, and I despise facecamping because it's boring as hell. But then you get squads like this one, and it makes you want to Ebony mori people with Nurse/Spirit. What a shameful display.

  • casedistortedcasedistorted Member Posts: 58
    edited September 2019

    I was thinking the other day maybe if they just added 30 seconds to a minute to the time to do every gen it would make the game just a LITTLE bit better for everyone. But meh, just required to bring Hex: Ruin every game, waste a perk slot, and pray that a survivor doesn't spawn on top of it.

    I'm sorry but I don't think the point of NOED is to punish gen rushing. I think the point of NOED is to ensure you don't learn the killer and can basically get multiple kills very easily at the end of a match without any effort. Most of the time anyway.

    I was disappointed you didn't add Monto's 'Just a little bit' at the end of that last sentence.

  • CaretakerCaretaker Member Posts: 764

    Funny enough, Marth's Depip Squad did multiple experiments, not sure if you heard about them. They did a full SWF with no comms, one with comms and meta perks, and I think one with comms, but no perks? Something like that. Either way, the best success they had was SWF with no comms. Cuz they didn't mix up call outs or make stupid altruistic plays like they did on comms. They were 4 "solos" who knew what to do to get out and that's what they focused on.

    Comms help for sure, and bad solos can utterly throw a game, but you can do really well with just a coordinated group out to survive.

  • FireHazardFireHazard Member, Trusted Posts: 7,314

    Of course, I just mean that coms are a benefit, they don't really make the game any better for a solo team or SWFs.

    It doesn't matter if a SWF uses coms or not, it only matters if they actually all know what they're doing...

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 5,614
    edited September 2019

    Why didn’t you use frenzy to get information of where the rest of the survivors were in the beginning?

    I understand you wanted to keep chasing that Claudette but honestly you don’t even bother to look before she pallet stuns you and takes your power away.

    Would this have guaranteed that you wouldn’t have lost 3 gens? Not sure. Not without knowing what items/perks they have. What I do know is that had you checked, left that Claudette to mend... she would have had to mend giving you time to find others and do the same, thus putting pressure at the start of the match.

  • CaretakerCaretaker Member Posts: 764

    We really can't add any more time to the gens. People already complain about m1 simulator, (while afking on the gen and playing survivor 2000+ hours, *cough*). It is still a good point though, we need a secondary objective or something baked in baseline for killers like CI, or something that slows down the beginning of the game where you're essentially at your weakest. The time you take searching is valuable time wasted, even more so for set-up killers. The hard part is figuring out that extension to the game, that doesn't break it and is fun for both sides.

  • casedistortedcasedistorted Member Posts: 58

    Would me nice if there WAS a secondary objective, like a tombstone or totem or two that spawned on the map you needed to find at the end of all gens being completed before like a boney gate blocking the exit switches would break.. just something creative to increase game time just a tad, which could be added to the game once you get above a certain rank like 10.

    Just throwing out ideas there.

  • CaretakerCaretaker Member Posts: 764
    edited September 2019

    I mentioned this earlier. In the vid you can see me flicking my cam to see if anyone was nearby, seeing no one I decided to eat the pallet for a faster cd and down the Claudette. Had I gone over to the side where the other gens were I'd have just fatigued, and have to wait 20s for my power to come up. Claud would've mended by the time i got to the other side and hopped back on the gen or self-cared. Probably worked on the gen cuz no one brought self-care.

    So, I'd have one survivor I'd be chasing as a basic killer cuz 20s cd + 4s fatigue which would've cost me 2 gens minimum. Then I'd have to chase whoever it was, probably Kate she was the closest iirc on the far left gen. By then I'd have lost Claud's gen, and had an even worse spread of gens to defend.

  • CaretakerCaretaker Member Posts: 764

    They're good ideas. I think most of the community is in agreement that we need some form of secondary objective that actually slows the game down and is mandatory. Unlike totems, unless you wanna delete NOED, or gain extra points/emblem points.

  • Atrushan88Atrushan88 Member Posts: 2,083
    edited September 2019

    If you don't heal Legion is still able to get you though. Not healing is just as bad as healing, just like Plague. You either heal and he injures you again, or you don't and you're a 1 hit down which makes it easier. Also, again, that second FF would have given you full Thanataphobia stacks. If they were SWF, then yeah We'll Make It likely would have still done a lot for them, but it still would have slowed them down, and take it from someone who's dealt with sloppy a lot. It hurts, it hurts bad.

  • CaretakerCaretaker Member Posts: 764

    See, as someone who runs No Mither, Sloppy, FF, all these things are just a joke to me. Cuz I don't heal. I just loop and do gens. That is if I ever get seen at all. It's not that much slower, it's like 6s for SC, 3 for healing someone else. It's just the red bar making it seem worse than it is. Second FF I didn't hit anyone?

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 5,614

    @Caretaker My bad, I don’t play Legion much and I didn’t know his Frenzy had a radius limit.

    For me personally, I think gens as fine, what I think needs to change is killer abilities. Legion already needs a rework IMO, he isn’t excelling at which is he all about... Running.

    I said this in another post and I’ll say it again.. change his Frenzy to be used to gain distance and at the end of his Frenzy give him an ambush attack that gives deep wounds from which survivors have to find special bandages to get patched up. To balance it out, only allow Frenzy to be used while not in a chase. In essence this does 2 things... gives Legion more versatility but also gives survivors “things to do” that aren’t “hold M1 for x seconds”.

    Think if Legion worked like Hillbilly (getting from one place to another) but without the insta down, instead he would feel more agile and fast.

  • NMCKENMCKE Member Posts: 8,050
    edited September 2019

    Actually, if you're really good at running loops, being a one shot down shouldn't be a problem to you. The only time being a one shot down is a problem is when you think you're going to get hit by the killer.


    All in all, great survivors don't need to heal when they can run loops so good that the killer can't get a hit in. :)

  • CaretakerCaretaker Member Posts: 764

    THANK YOU! So many people even the devs act like one-shot downs are scary, and they're really not unless it's like Nurse with MYC, or if you're in a deadzone.

    No worries. It has a limit of 32, I think you can extend it with your TR with Distressing and other perks. You can also make it unlimited with an UR addon. I've actually written up a fix to Legion that keeps him in-line, keeps the m1 playstyle, and lets him have mobility, power, and stall while removing the moonwalking/frank's. I'll post it below, it's obviously subject to change, but this was something I wrote up real fast that I felt could work while keeping his initial uniqueness, but also remove what made him feel unfun.

    Also, anyone who claims they know Legion, but didn't play how he is now when he was 110, I disregard. So many people only played with Frank's, and moonwalked, while refusing to try to m1 and act like this new Legion has a new playstyle. Nah, you could do it effectively at 110 and while it was harder, it was a lot of fun.


    Take base Legion pre-nerf and go from there.


    -Bump to 115.

    -No more downing with FF, no more drain in TR.

    -If you fully deplete DW it now adds an action speed penalty for up to x(a minute maybe?)

    -If they mend the action speed penalty applies for 30s instead.

    -You can still multi-stab as before, but draining the bar just gets you closer to the "mangled" debuff. 3 stabs to drain.

    -Keep the rework pins, but they now apply when picked up from dying state, or when rescued from hook, and apply first application of DW.

    -SWS reworked to 1 less stab to put a survivor into "mangled" and extends the timers by 10s for mended, 15s for "mangled"

    -Frank's reworked to every successful application of DW you gain increasing movement speed until you stab someone who is already in DW, or cancel Feral Frenzy.

    -Fuming Mix Tape reworked to you have infinite feral frenzy outside of a chase. This doesn't work with Killer Instinct even if you drop a chase. Will only apply on a fresh Feral Frenzy.(edited)

  • NMCKENMCKE Member Posts: 8,050

    However, just keep in mind that no one is perfect, so one shot downs are scaled depending on your skill and consistency.


    I watch Zubatlel and he's an excellent survivor, but he still make mistakes. Human error is something we will all run into at some point, and that's probably why people cleanse or heal because we know we will mess up eventually. :)


    Overall, if you're not confident, heal or play it very safe, but otherwise, who cares if you're a one shot?

  • PoochkipsPoochkips Member Posts: 265

    You can always run the plagues ability. People consider it extremely low tier though due to it being useless for the rest of the game. It heavily limits the gens they can do though. I've recently tried Corrupt intervention, Ruin, Discordance, and Pop goes the weasel. So far it's doing pretty good. We have all these perks to really help figure out who's doing what. Sure they can work through ruin, but it definitely hinders people. Sucks that it's mandatory in the later ends of things, but eh, the game isn't balanced around SWF. Unless these players were all randoms, idek. Even still, I usually find people before Corrupt intervention goes away.

  • Atrushan88Atrushan88 Member Posts: 2,083

    I was saying if you had hit the one person, you could have hit all 3, they were all nearby. It could have been really great for you. I don't think it was something to downplay.

    I disagree. I mean yes, if you are better at loops than the killer, sure, but True has gone against some really damn good survivors as Legion and 4ked consistently, and I'm sure he doesn't think Legion is a dumpsterfire. One game he even used perks that countered themselves.

  • CaretakerCaretaker Member Posts: 764

    This is why I enjoy No Mither. If you can consistently survive and hide with it, you can do that much better when not running it. It's super helpful.

  • CaretakerCaretaker Member Posts: 764

    Corrupt Intervention, and I have tried it before. People just hid from me, or did gens that were open while I was busy chasing. Then they know they can avoid a 3-gen as well by not doing too many away from that cluster.

    I might've been able to hit them. It all depends on how they ran it. I also would've had to wait 20s, as it has a 20s cd. That's after the 4 second fatigue. Could, but in more likelihood I would've hit 1 and wasted time going for others.

  • FriendlyGuyFriendlyGuy Member Posts: 2,768
    edited September 2019

    You mean your skill as killer don't matters at all? Yep, one of the biggest problems with 90% of the killers in DBD.

  • Mtom912Mtom912 Member Posts: 743
    edited September 2019

    You’re using legion a low tier killer, with no ruin what exactly do you expect, or no gen pressure perks except pop which relies on fast downs which legion does not excel at

  • FireHazardFireHazard Member, Trusted Posts: 7,314

    I'm not following with this statement, are you agreeing with me or?

This discussion has been closed.