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Gen Times Are Fine

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  • CaretakerCaretaker Member Posts: 764
    edited September 2019

    Aw it's mad. Past your bedtime? Need a nap chief?

    Imagine thinking a free 4s stun for a minute after getting unhooked is fair. Especially end-game where you literally get to win for free. Or getting DS'd after you hook other people cuz you clearly tunneled them.

    You keep throwing out words, but all I hear is, "I can't refute you so I'm gonna keep spouting the same crap cuz I wanna be right." How about we agree to disagree and move on?

  • Blackowt_9120Blackowt_9120 Member Posts: 300

    After you hook you know which gen to make a beeline for. That’s map pressure. Maybe you find someone, maybe you don’t, but you’ve still stopped the progress of all the generators. If you’re running pop, you know where to use it. 16s rarely saves a match, but doing that 10 times in a match is 160s. So nearly 3 minutes of safe or prioritized gens If you’re using pgtw efficiently you can create way more time than that. I would guess closer to 8 minutes.


    Now, assuming you do run into a survivor off of tt, which is a fair chance, you get a chase-during that time another survivor saves who is hooked, meaning that only one person is capable of doing a gen during that 16s-1m because you have tied up 3 of them. If you down the survivor you are chasing, you know where that single Guy working on a generator is, and you know what to pop. You’ve just created a good amount of map pressure, you’ve extended the game, and you’ve put the survivors in a reactive rather than proactive position, meaning you’re in control while they recover, and you can force them to be in recovery for the entire game. Add ruin and bbq into that and that’s what I run. I expect ruin not to last long, but it usually lasts long enough to get 3-4 hooks on average. Other times they break It 5 second in, other times I’ve already killed two people

  • CaretakerCaretaker Member Posts: 764
    edited September 2019

    Ok, counter-point. The gen glows yellow, and as you go to it, it goes off anyway. You also see multiple yellow gens cuz they're not stupid and they're spreading out as they should and burning through the gens as you should do.

    Going off your scenario. The other guy is now probably unhooked, and healed, and/or on a gen with either someone else, or they split and now you have 2 people on gens while chasing. Meaning you knocked out 1 out of 3 lives for one survivor, and could possibly lose gens to chase another.

    Now, if they choose altruism/over gens and you can snowball hooks then sure. Yea, it could help, but even perks won't help that cuz proper play/good chases will net you plenty of pressure from them panicking and trying to save. Just had a game as Demo with pretty meh perks. MYC/CI/Surge 1. Just prestiged him. CI hepled me find one person. Downed her, went to a gen which was almost done, downed him. Got good portal placement. Hooked, found another, downed, surge broke 2 gens. Cool. Hooked him, the gen that got surged above popped and the original CI gen popped.

    Well #########. CI ran off quite a bit ago, surge is on CD and only stopped 1 gen really, so that's basically 2 perks down. Now I got MYC. Which I did get fair use out of using my portals, so I gotta say I really like it on him. Helps with snowball if you get lucky. Didn't always find my MYC target, but it did net me a few downs.

    So, all in all the perks didn't slow the game down, and I was playing an arguably better killer on Thompson House, so a bit more room to move around and chase. Altruism won me that game. That's all it was. I played my chases well, but had they focused on the gens, I'd have maybe got a kill, possibly two? Which in my eyes is a win since I cycle out hooks. That'd been fine with me.

  • OmansOmans Member Posts: 555

    If that's playing optimally to you, I don't know what else to say. Do you really think you should be able to make many mistakes as the '1' in a 1v4 game, and still win against survivors who play well? I already explained everything in my previous post.

    Every advantage you can get as killer will help you, and can be the difference between a 4k and a 0k. You don't want to use addons? You don't want to use "meta" perks? You use a lower tier killer? It takes you 3 gens to find and down one survivor? All those things add up, and suddenly your chances of winning are much lower. That's how it is, buddy. Don't like it? Equip addons. Equip perks that will defend against how you lost that game (hello, ruin?). Use a stronger killer next time you see those survivors. Don't think that you can win just on skill alone?

    I am a rank 1 killer every month, under a week into the rank reset, every time. I can't even remember the last time I had three gens gone before my first chase was finished. But hey, I play optimally. The thing is, you severely underestimated the survivors, and got punished for it.

    As for maps - yes, I agree. That is the biggest balance problem in the game right now. Fix the maps and this game will become 10x more balanced.

  • CaretakerCaretaker Member Posts: 764
    edited September 2019

    Playing optimally to me, how I like to have fun is cycling hooks. 2 hooks each before I kill anyone, only kill if I need the pressure. Don't tunnel, don't camp, unless end-game/necessary. I want the survivors to feel like they have a chance to play, cuz I sure as hell don't like it when I don't get to play either. It's infuriating for both sides, so I try to avoid being that killer. I want people to get points, and I want to get as close to 32k as possible.

    The problem is we don't get advantages. The only advantage we have is if they act overly altruistic? Maybe a BBQ proc for a hint of where to go? You act like 80s is a lot of time. It's really not. I went to a gen, saw it was worked on, kicked it and knew a surv was near. Even if I had left I'd have lost those 3 gens, possibly a 4th cuz now Claud is safe to work on that gen.

    Guess what, played Demo on Thompson House. 4k quad iri with MYC/CI/Surge 1, no addons. I got very little if no use out of CI/Surge. Altruism and cycling hooks won me that match, simply put they made a lot of mistakes. I lost 2 gens SUPER fast too and that was after 3 successful chases that were done very quickly. It's not hard to get to rank 1, I'm sorry.

    I didn't underestimate anything, the game is just a broken mess. I don't know what to tell you? That game was an insta-loss. I had no chance of winning. You're lying if you think I could've done anything different. I've explained the time needed, the different choices I could've made. It points to me losing every time. Great you guys are optimistic, but it's not realistic.

    I do agree on maps. They are the biggest source of imbalance in the game atm.

    Also before anyone says it again. I don't want free wins, or easy games. I want to actually be able to play and not ruin someone's game cuz I need pressure. I don't think that's asking for much.

    Also, I'm about to 100% the game for like the 5th time? I've quad iri'd literally everything in the game as well. Survivor+all killers including Demo. I'm just missing hatch closing, 25 left and I'm back to 100%.

  • Blackowt_9120Blackowt_9120 Member Posts: 300

    Man, I don’t want to sound like a prick because i am legitimately trying to help you, but a fair amount of it does come down to personal skill. If you can’t down someone in the amount of time it takes for one survivor to unhook another, heal them, and finish two gens with the survivor they spent extra time healing you’ve already lost because of you. Youre spending way to much time chasing and need to work on routes, mindgaming, moonwalking, and recognizing when you’re being taken for a jog in the fog and to just stop.

  • SkaraokSkaraok Member Posts: 36

    Ruin does nothing to slow the game down. The fact that you think it does is laughable.

    The ONLY reason that Ruin works as absurdly well as it does, is because low rank morons spend ######### ages Urban Evasioning around the map searching for a totem instead of doing the generators. Either that, or they're just so ridiculously bad at the game that they can't do gens and/or they're extremely unlucky and get Hex skill checks every 5 seconds. That's literally the only reason why Ruin works.

    In every other scenario, Ruin pops instantly and you're forced to play with 3 perks, OR the survivors literally just don't give a ######### about Ruin and powered through it. And don't give BS that none of these scenarios happen because I've been the survivor/killer player in every single one of them. Even today, I've done gens up to 50% or 75% without getting a single Hex skill check. Ruin is a ######### joke and everyone knows it.

    As for the other stall perks that you brought up, most of them are either too situational to be used effectively (Thrilling, Surge) or wouldn't have worked against those survivors. Overcharge isn't really a great alternative for stalling unless you get potatoes. Surveillance and Pop might have been helpful, but they would have done absolutely nothing to help at the start of the game.

    Now, I will concede that CI and Discordance can get work done, however. You presumably watched the video, you saw how those survivors were hyper focused on generators. Discordance wouldn't have helped because all of them spread out, and as Caretaker said CI would have just forced them onto other generators and he maaaaaaaaybe would have gotten 1-2 hooks before the first three gens were completed. But even that is a stretch.

    The truth is, Legion is ultimately a low tier killer and any survivor with two clumps of braincells to knock together would have kicked his ass in that match. If he had run NOED and CI? Yeah sure, he would have gotten at least 1-2 kills, maybe even a 4k if they screwed up badly enough. But ANY killer can be genrushed to hell if you know how to play correctly. I've seen it happen so many goddamn times and done it myself so many goddamn times over the past 2 years, and it's frankly unbelievable to me that it's STILL this bad.

  • OmansOmans Member Posts: 555

    I also like playing that way - getting 12 hooks by the end of the game, squeezing every bloodpoint out of the survivors. But doing that against survivors who know how to play - do gens and get out - simply isn't reasonable. Give them an inch, they take a mile. When I'm survivor I rush gens HARD. Why? Because if you play solo against a killer playing optimally, it's a race against the clock between how fast all the potato survivors you meet in solo can be knocked down, and how well the killer is playing. And if that killer decides he wants to patrol his hook, and intercept survivors going for the save? Suddenly you don't have as much time as you think you do as survivor.

    It's a vicious circle. As survivor I go HARD on gens. Why? Because you never know how the killer is going to play. As killer if they are only sitting on gens, you have to create your own pressure by forcing them to make a save.

    At red ranks against good survivors who are doing their objective you don't have time to cycle hooks. It's admirable that you decide to not play optimally so the survivors in your games can have fun, but if I was survivor and I was against you I wouldn't go easy on you because you want to get all 12 hooks. I would call you greedy for thinking you can get away with playing like that against good survivors, and then run out the gate..

    Know what I call a killer (who isn't nurse) not using ruin or addons? An easy win. I regularly hit greats. I don't go looking for ruin. I just power through it, and yet I still have ruin on all my killers. Why? Because it adds up. Every second adds up. It can mean the difference between the Gen being completed, and the killer getting there in time to do a pop goes the wheel, or defend it, etc.

    I do enjoy playing addon-less from time to time when I want a challenge, but I certainly don't expect to get all 12 hooks and win every game when playing like that.

  • CaretakerCaretaker Member Posts: 764
    edited September 2019

    Chief. Tell me how the ######### I was supposed to finish that chase, and get those 3 off the gen. Please. You're clearly not listening, and honestly I don't know what you're all on. I found a surv, downed them, and by the time I got them on the hook 3 gens popped cuz the game is super easy, and there's no stopping coordinated survivors who just do the gens.

    They had WMI, and double healed most of the time meaning it took a few seconds. I don't know what kind of god you are, but you're double hitting, and hooking within seconds? Please teach me that trick, cuz in my almost 1900 hours and multiple 4ks, I've never just found a survivor and immediately downed them, then immediately downed another after leaving the hook unless they are utterly inept or new.

    I don't need help. How many times do I have to say this? You're all obsessing over my personal skill and experience with Legion, and it's clear you're not actually on-topic or listening. I've 4kd as Legion at rank 1 many times. Even quad irid and had perfect games. I was showing how ridiculous gen speeds are and how a game can go south instantly. I have 100% the game, about to 100% it again. I have quad iri'd every killer and survivor.

    I've been rank 1 for years. I AM NOT ASKING FOR ADVICE CUZ I DON'T NEED IT. Maybe if y'all read the thread you'd realize that. Hell I played the current Legion playstyle when he was 110 and still got perfect games at rank 1. Sorry if I'm coming off as rude, but like. I've said this so many times it's kinda getting annoying.

    Post edited by Caretaker on
  • CaretakerCaretaker Member Posts: 764
    edited September 2019

    I don't EXPECT to win. I TRY to win. That game was at rank 13. Not red ranks, rank 13, and my gens got rushed that fast. I had no control over the game, and as the devs put it, "It is the killer's trial." Yet I had no power to win that match. I don't like using addons, cuz I like playing just the base killer. Rarely I'll slap some on to screw around or test something to see how it works, but otherwise I like to play base, only perks.

    But against a survivor like you, that means Ruin isn't doing anything. It just stops skill checks extra progression assuming you hit a great, which is what? 2%? Now imagine all 4 hitting greats, or 3 more realistically. If Ruin doesn't blow immediately.

    I had a game earlier. Wraith had Ruin, and a few stall perks. He was bouncing around hooking everyone. Using Small Game I found Ruin super late. Once Ruin popped I just did the gens, and we all got out. There was nothing he could do. Didn't have NOED, and I popped the totems. He was keeping up pressure, but I pressured harder by staying safe, and just focusing gens. I wasted so much time and he was pinging ponging hooks, but even screwing around I had time to do 5 totems, and 5 gens before he could kill anyone. Even basement hooking and putting down pressure.

    I had a game against a Plague where I let someone almost hit stage 2 to get a gen done, still had time to run out and grab her. Only reason I died was a stupid play to finish a daily, and teammates that healed immediately after getting sick. I could've played immersed, I found the hatch, it was a free win for me even though I only had Mettle. I was safe that entire game. Even on Thompson which has a lot of open area for Plague to work with, especially with Corrupt.

    Good survivors will not let you play the game. Unless you can swing some pressure through altruism, or they make some really stupid plays, or get cocky, they're getting out. Playing against potatoes isn't a good judge of how powerful a killer is or how good they are as a player. If I see the killer patrol, I just do gens. That's 3 minutes, I can do at minimum 2 gens while they struggle/my team tries to unhook. They probably will unhook too, which means I can afk on another gen while they go down. There's a reason I really enjoy running No Mither in my main build.

  • OmansOmans Member Posts: 555

    Can't speak for being at rank 13, but once I learned how to play killer effectively I have never once thought that a game was beyond my control from the very beginning of the game. After I've made several mistakes? Sure, games can spiral out of your control pretty quickly. But no game is unwinnable as killer. Sorry.

    As for your examples..the Wraith game..if he was as good as you thought, hooking people as fast as you thought he was, then you wouldn't have had time to do everything you said you did.

  • CaretakerCaretaker Member Posts: 764
    edited September 2019

    I know how to play killer, again. I don't know what else to say. Congrats you never get coordinated squads?

    If winnable is getting a kill, sure you can possibly win, but there are plenty of games that are unwinnable. If survivors aren't complete potatoes and actually try they will leave. I highly doubt you've won every single match, or never had a 4k escape. So yea, you can't win every game, and Ill fight you on that. I've seen some of the top players get utterly destroyed and that's with them running Ruin, and the usual slowdown perks.

    Also, the Wraith was decent, and he did have time, you just underestimate how little time you have in a game and how fast gens go. The totems were super close, and every survivor has 2 hooks before death. He cycled through hooks, never found or chased me, the other survivors obviously ran him a bit before going down. There was a chain of downs near the end, but he pushed us out, the last survivor not hooked saved, ran for the exit and last guy got hatch.

    The only way he might've done better was to just hard tunnel people off the hooks, or camp. Which I assume he didn't want to, cuz that's just boring for both parties.

    I just can't take you seriously if you say you win every match, which is what that sounds like.

    Post edited by Caretaker on
  • Devil_hit11Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 1,650

    So i've read all 5 pages of this post and i have few comments to make. I'm sorry to say, but this is one of the cases in which genrushing unfortunately justified. At the start of the game, you took 40 second find someone which is fine, but after hitting Claudette, you decided to go on 60 second chase when you are not a 1vs1 killer. one of the problems with killer mains and this is true for survivor is that they believe this game is 1vs1 game which it isn't. for this 1 minute and 20 seconds, nobody needed healing, there was no gen pressure and the claudette was successfully wasting your time. 3 generators being complete was justified. You end up juggling few people in the middle game, then wandered around, did few chases and the game was over by then. you did poor job in using legion's killer power in the match and the idea nobody heals isn't true as everyone who was injured healed up by 3:52. All in all, you played very poorly in the match and the player caliber was beyond your level.

    Even though this game doesn't have competitive scene. It doesn't mean that people don't want to win. a game can still be competitive in the sense that every player is trying their best to win. Unfortunately for killers, Add-on and Perks are not luxury. They are mandatory. If your not willing to use the best tools to improve your winning chances, then you deserve to lose when you face stiff competition. You don't really need to rely on meta tools, but know that you'll need more skill if you choose to play without them.

    Majority of the games as killer are winnable. There is skill-cieling to dbd, but that only really occurs at the very top when everyone is making very little error. Majority of low-level games have a ton of weak-link survivors and many of them make a lot of errors which are easy to exploit as killer. that is why playing killer is really easy and every game is winnable until you hit the very top.

  • OmansOmans Member Posts: 555

    I never say I win every match? I'm simply saying that if I play well enough in a trial I always have the potential to win. That potential is never not there. I have never looked back at a loss and thought "yep, nothing I could have done differently".

    I get outplayed. I make mistakes. I get frustrated. But I never lose a game before the game has even begun.

    I know how much time I have as killer. It ain't much, but it's more than enough to kill a team of survivors when they get rid of all the totems. Of that I'm sure.

  • Th3NightmareTh3Nightmare Member Posts: 1,107

    According to the developers: If they repair 3 gens in a chase, it's because you made a mistake .....

  • I_Be_Pro_FunI_Be_Pro_Fun Member Posts: 73

    Mad Grit is much more effective at stopping body blocking.

    Hola. Legion Main as well here. Just have a few... Tips.

    A. Fix your perks. Legion gets their strength from knowing where survivors are, and delaying all survivors at once. Mad grit instead of agitation, because in End Game, body blocking will be much more prominent regularly.

    Discordance instead of Barbecue. Unless you are playing Spirit, Billy, Nurse, or Demi (in some cases), Barbecue is really only good for points (as you cannot move fast enough to capitalise on it). Not to mention, Discordance can't be blocked, and doesn't even require you to do anything (though not sure it would have helped with the first three, admittedly)

    Take off Brutal Strength. Your killer power is literally derived from not needing to break pallets mid chase. Basically meaning that Brutal Strength is just convincing you not to use your power. Instead, take sloppy butcher (cause you get lots of hits to slow down the game further), Franklins (again, lots of hits) or bamboozle (so you can basically fly through vaults)

    PGTW is fine, though really, I run Monitor (allows you to get closer to working survivors)

    Last tip I can really give to you is don't continue the chase after you get the frenzy hit. The power is designed to slow down the game (for survivors to mend). Chasing after that survivor literally does nothing to your advantage. It basically means you wasted your power for nothing (as the timer doesnt decrease when within your TR).

    Personally, the best play with Legion is to hit as many people as possible within the first few seconds. Giving chase after the only DW survivor wastes both the DW and all of your map pressure

  • Warlock_2020Warlock_2020 Member Posts: 1,868
    edited September 2019

    At some point we have to just admit that OP is horrible at killer and refuses to get better with the tools at his disposal. Sorry, but every excuse he's thrown out there about this is just that, an excuse.

    I hate running Legion, but did so last night at rank 6. Ran 8 matches. 4 with no perks, 4 with only Thanata and SB. No addons. Had a 2k in the first match due to key escape, but a 3k in the next two and 4k in the last no perk match where only 2 gens were done. That was a brutally long match as I was focused on the center and killer shack area of azer. There were only 2 gens on the other side, so I refused to roll over there. They kept running out there, but I'd go back and kick gens. 20 long minutes, but great BP.

    With 2 perks, it was a 2k in the first match, but lots of hooks and still pip. Fun match vs a good SWF with 3 rank 2s on Lerys. 4k in last 2 matches.

    Map pressure is a choice. You play for the hook and you get burned. Play for the gen and you will get the hooks.

    I will caveat this by saying I got lucky with a few maps due to getting Groaning Storehouse 3 times and Azerovs. I'm comfortable on these maps as I cut them in half and hold the fort down. I also gave the hatch twice because I felt those two instances were good survivors saddled with boosted team members.

    2nd edit- Forgot to mention that I switched to Trapper after that. Felt great, like putting on your favorite shirt. Got absolutely destroyed in the next 4 matches. 3 deaths only. Mostly my fault as my head was not in the game. Switched to Lady Hag, had a good match, quit while I was ahead.

  • Well_Placed_HexTotemWell_Placed_HexTotem Member Posts: 824
    edited September 2019

    M1 killer getting looped and genrushed? Have you tried to git gud or apply map pressure? /s

  • PickCollinsPickCollins Member Posts: 495

    1. Decisive strike only works if your opting to tunnel someone off the hook. And even then you can counter it by slugging or just...not Tunnelling. Pretty funny. It has counterplay. It's called time.

  • PickCollinsPickCollins Member Posts: 495

    That's the most ignorant statement ever. Ruin is an amazing perk even if it gets smashed by ur first down. The only time ruin isn't useful is when it gets smashed at the start of the game, but adapting to the shift makes it possible to still come out on top.

  • MochanMochan Member Posts: 2,886


    You just want a chance to "Play the Game?"

    Let me tell you The Truth: Killers always get to play the game in its entirety. Because KILLERS NEVER DIE.

    No matter how bad you are at the game, you will always get to play the game and find and chase survivors, because unlike a survivor, there is no way for your night to end early.

    Survivors, on the other hand, can slip up in the first 30 seconds, get hooked, spend a minute on it and die without ever really playing.

    So no, I don't want to hear deaf cries like that. Ridiculous.


    Here's the thing: all you did is prove that you are not so good at the game. I get a Nurse who slugs all four of us in two minutes. Does that mean Nurse needs to be nerfed?

    Of course not! It just means she is better than us and outplayed us. For every match I get like that I get 10 matches where we outplay the Nurse or just have a good game and the Nurse kills half of us and the other half escape.

    Your worst experience in the game is not anywhere indicative of the usual quality of the game or the status quo.

    If you are not exerting enough pressure that 3 gens are done before you can hook a survivor, you just need to get better at the game. We all started sucking at this game. And with that kind of performance there's no way you're in the high ranks. At the low ranks you can do better, just learn to play better and track and hook survivors faster.

    And if you are actually in the high ranks and getting stomped like this? Well guess what... that means you aren't good enough to hang in the high ranks! You will keep losing and pipping poorly until you end up back in the lower ranks where you belong. Look at me. I can get to purple ranks easy, but once I get to purple the games get a lot harder. This is my actual skill level. I can't progress higher and get good and easy wins because I'm fighting at a level where the players are as good or better than I am. So until I improve I will keep getting stomped or just not winning as much as I would in the lower ranks.

    This is normal. People need to accept that this is true. People who keep crying about killer/survivor sided imbalances and how ranks mean nothing are just averting their eyes from this reality. Either because they're being brainwashed by idiot streamers or because their ego is too big for them to accept their real skill level. Or maybe both.

    Which one are you?

  • 8obot1c8obot1c Member Posts: 1,129

    This is why they need to make the times longer or make a new objective.

  • TheUnendingNightmareTheUnendingNightmare Member Posts: 1,172

    Actually maybe not increasing time but if the killer could prevent acces or certain paths to the gens it would be a bit more fun.

    Killers could have the ability to lock down certain areas in which gens are located allowing acces only to the killer. Survivors would need to activate a breaker or something and could even become trap until someone lift the lockdown or repair the gen inside.

  • MochanMochan Member Posts: 2,886
    edited September 2019

    If you are getting beat at Rank 13 then that just shows you have a long way to go to get good at this game.

    I mean seriously? Crying about imbalance and how the game is rigged against you at such a low rank when you aren't even an average (median) player in terms of skill? Come on.

    Your gens are getting rushed because you're not exerting enough map pressure.

    I just finished a game with a Huntress who killed all us in under two minutes. Yeah, she was using a Pink Hatchet, but if you want to feel like you "have no control" Survivors can get curbstomped a lot worse than killers.

    These things happen. You need to accept that you lack skill and get better at the game. Crying that the game is survivor-sided shows that you have no interest in improving or even learning the game.

    You need to accept that sometimes you outplayed, and just move on to the next game.

  • MochanMochan Member Posts: 2,886

    This is a ridiculous statement that only a newb killer who has never played Survivor can possibly say.

    Sorry, but you are so out of touch with the game that nothing you say is convincing.

    Ruin is a huge deal at every rank except at the absolute highest where everyone hits great skill checks with ease (these players are not common). Sometimes it gets blow up early, sometimes it wins you the game all by itself. There's a degree of luck involved, but saying it doesn't slow the game down is a stupid statement at best, a downright ignoramus' sentiment at worst.

    Even if Ruin blows up within the first minute of the game it still probably stopped that clump of survivors who spawned next to a gen from rushing the first gen.

    I can't count the number of times I wanted rush the first gen with the guy beside me who had Prove Thyself but couldn't because one or both of us was messing up the skill checks every few seconds.

    There's a reason why like 80% (or more I don't know) of killers run Ruin, because it is effective and it really does slow the game down. And this is true even in the purple and red ranks.

  • LoopHardLoopHard Member Posts: 1

    Lol uses a suboptimal build on the worst killer in the guy and tunnels down the first guy you see then complain about gen times. And you knew they were using toolboxes, yet you still bring a ######### build, and a ######### killer with no Ruin or Discordance. Legion does need a buff but you played like hot ass.

  • Predator3174PLPredator3174PL Member Posts: 300

    This build might help you in the future. Personally I would took Ir Button and Stolen Sketchbook, but if you want to slow the game at it's full potential, this is it. Still not as strong as I would like it to be.

  • ThasardThasard Member Posts: 268

    Shhh! I hate this setup, but yes, definitely a better build by far. Thanat with mangled is a guaranteed delay once survivors find your ruin. There's legit minimal fear of a legion, but this is probably one of the better builds to guarantee a higher BP game with "them".

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