The One Stop Shop for Legion ideas! Come on in and take a look...
UlvenDagoth
Member Posts: 3,535
So me and @LordGlint were talking about DBD and I told him that I was working on an Idea for Legion. I originally wanted something that hearkened back to there gang. Some kind of locker insanity or something but honestly, none of that would work, or at the very least it would be rather hard to put in game. So we started asking, what is Legion's main issue? Well, his power is kinda useless. By the time you slash one person, the rest have gone OR if they are injured they hear your TR and just book it.
First of all, let's take the removal of the blood trail in FF and the "M1s remove 50% of your power" things away. Those are silly and honestly, neither of us could come up with one good reason the Devs did that.
Secondly, DO NOT WORRY! We are not making his power lethal or put the chase on a "Timer". That is why people hated old Legion. We don't want that again.
So back to the main point. What do you do when you see Legion put deep wounds on someone nearby? You BOOK IT! You can't hide, but you can get away till they get hit with the end of power stun. Survivors know about There presence in advance in the general area... in other words the next victims.
So, you might be asking yourself, what do you do? Well it's simple! You could do one or more of these things!
- Remove his TR and red stain in FF. Just straight remove it so that he can run up on survivors and get them with FF and surprise them. Make the KI work on a radius. You could say there Frenzy is so great it cuts the ties the Entity have put on them for a limited time.
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Make his base TR 16 and his FF TR 24. Kinda a new approach to the same idea. This way would also open up Legion to be able to sneak up better on the people he has hit with his FF and need to m1 now to down. Legion is already the shortest Killer (yes, shorter than Hag) so they could FINALLY live up to the trailer and be even a LITTLE sneaky.) HI! This has been voted down by the others in the thread but keeping it up for Reference! - After hitting two survivors with Feral Frenzy the Legions red stain is removed for x amount of seconds which would help with downs. Third hit lowers terror radius by 8 meters for x amount of seconds which could help with hitting that last survivor. With monitor and abuse the terror radius will be 16 meters. Addons could influence this.
- First two survivors hit with Feral Frenzy grants 2% increased movement speed each while the third grants a 1% increase bringing their movement speed in Feral Frenzy up to 130%. (numbers might be too low?)
- At base, being hit with Feral Frenzy causes mangled that persists until fully healed. Can't be stacked with other mangled status effects like sloppy butcher but works with coulraphobia and the like. (After rereading this one, it's kinda Meh, so it wouldn't be good enough on it's own.)
- If a survivor stops mending then they are downed. Deep wound timer depletes while doing an action (mending, repairing, sabotaging and so on) even while near the killer. If not doing an action the deep wound timer does not deplete while within 32 meters of the killer.
You hit someone with FF and run off to hit someone else. You hit them and end your frenzy or don't make it ti them and end the power. When out of FF you hear the heartbeat and see the KI mark for a very short amount of time (for balance) every x amount of seconds while that first survivor is mending. (this was more of an Example)After thinking about it, I think @Kabu changed this one to Add-on only. Let me know if i'm wrong Kabu!
Thank you @Kabu For the 3-7 ideas and the next few add-ons till you get to Mob Mentality! I forgot to credit them before! Sorry!
"But what about the stun?" Well, if you think about it, it's similar to Nurse. It's there to make sure that you don't just end it and m1. You MIGHT be able to shorten it, but it's not bad because it serves it's purpose.
Add on suggestions:
- Survivors are revealed by killer instinct for a very short amount of time every x amount of seconds while mending When out of FF. See previous post for explanation.
- Survivors suffering from deep wound make louder injured noises. (This should be base, also make unique pain sounds, IE: more grunts and long, drawn out groans of pain)
- Survivors have their aura revealed for x amount of seconds when they stop mending.
Frank's mix tape rework: Hitting a survivor with FF then hitting another one and going back to hit the first survivor depletes the deep wound bar by a large amount. Maybe doesn't fully deplete the Frenzy bar but would still stun Legion. Would still be hard to down with frenzy but it adds pressure.Sorry Kabu, but the more I think about it the more I doubt you'd get in this situation too often.- Increases FF duration tremendously (5 to 8 seconds) but with increased stun duration (.5 seconds to 1 second)
- Survivors hit with FF suffer from the hindered status effect for a short time.
Honestly, even with JUST these changes, We think that Legion would be in a better place AND keep the play style that Legion players love. Maybe even add old FF speeds back? Edit: we NEED the old Vaulting speeds back. Being looped while in FF is the SADDEST feeling.
Also shoutout to @Frosty for getting me to think of this in the first place and for wanting me to post it.
This doesn't have many thoughts on Mending and Deep Wounds, cause after BT got it too, it's no longer just a Legion Issue.
AND NOW for a REALLY good idea from @MongByeolBuddies
Here's my idea to help with, imo, Legion's two main problems:
* For killers, that’s getting a second hit and downing the survivor.
* For survivors, it's having to mend, which is boring and makes Legion obnoxious to go against.
My solution -- Change the Deep Wound status effect and give Legion a secondary power -- Mob Mentality.
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Feral Frenzy:
Hitting a survivor not affected by the Deep Wound status effect during Feral Frenzy applies DW and gives Legion 1 charge of Mob Mentality.
Deep Wound now applies a 20 percent penalty to repair, healing and sabotage speeds.
Survivors now remove the DW status effect by healing to full health, not by mending. DW lasts indefinitely.
Hitting a survivor affected by DW during Feral Frenzy applies 1 more DW. Survivors suffering from 4 Deep Wounds will enter the dying state. This will be tracked on the HUD.
Legion cannot use Mob Mentality during Feral Frenzy.
Legion can have up to 3 charges of Mob Mentality at one time.
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Mob Mentality:
Press the secondary power button to use 1 charge and summon a Legion member.
Any survivor within 16 meters of Legion will hear an audio cue -- a whistle -- when Mob Mentality is used.
The Legion member will appear 2 seconds later, crouched down in the spot you summoned him or her and wait for any survivor to get within range. When a survivor is within range, the Legion member will lunge at the survivor and attempt to hit them.
If a healthy survivor is hit, he or she will be injured; if an injured survivor is hit, he or she will enter the dying state.
Regardless of whether the hit connects, the Legion member will dissipate in a cloud of smoke.
Legion can summon all three other members this way. If Legion summons a member while all three members are currently on the map, the first member to be summoned will switch to the new location. Legion cannot summon members within 8 meters of another member.
Survivors within 16 meters of Legion members can detect them by looking in their direction for 3 seconds. During detection, survivors will receive an audio cue. Once fully detected, the Legion members will dissipate in a cloud of smoke.
If a survivor sets off a Mob Mentality trap, the Legion receives an audio and visual cue. If survivors fully detect a Legion member, the Legion does not receive an audio and visual cue.
Also, Mob Mentality is a trap so perks, such as Small Game, will work against it.
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Add-on changes to reflect the new Deep Wound status effect and Mob Mentality:
Smiley Face Pin -- Start with 1 charge of Mob Mentality.
Defaced Smiley Pin -- Start with 1 charge of Mob Mentality. The auras of survivors who fully detect a Legion member or are hit by him or her are revealed for 3 seconds.
The Legion Pin -- Start with 2 charges of Mob Mentality. The auras of survivors who fully detect a Legion member or are hit by him or her are revealed for 5 seconds.
Nasty Blade -- Slightly increases the penalty to Repair, Healing and Sabotage speeds (5 percent) to survivors suffering from the Deep Wound status effect.
Filthy Blade -- Moderately increases the penalty to the Repair, Healing and Sabotage speeds (10 percent) to survivors suffering from the Deep Wound status effect.
Frank’s Mixed Tape -- Legion members are invisible to survivors outside of 8 meters.
Fuming Mixed Tape -- Legion no longer needs charges to use Mob Mentality. MM now has a 10-second cooldown. The Legion can no longer use Feral Frenzy.
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This will allow Legion to still be a rush down killer and buffs them by providing them a tool -- Mob Mentality -- to counter looping, as well as set ambushes.
This new change also allows Legion to use Mob Mentality whenever Legion wants (albeit not in Feral Frenzy), and the survivor will only be aware that Legion has used MM if the survivor is within 16 meters of Legion when MM is used.
The change to the DW status effect also means survivors no longer have to worry about mending. Survivors suffering from DW can heal themselves back to full health slightly slower than normal or the survivor can find a teammate not suffering from DW to heal back to full health without any speed penalty -- making going against Legion more enjoyable for survivors.
(This also would get rid of a few not strictly Legion problems: Nurse’s Calling not detecting mending and other anti-healing perks not affecting mending, and killers who can drop their terror radiuses like Freddy and The Pig making the DW timer tick down while still chasing a survivor, which feels cheap.)
(Borrowed Time can be changed to something like: After unhooking a Survivor within the Killer's Terror Radius, for 11/13/15 seconds, any damage taken that would put the unhooked Survivor into the Dying State will instead apply the Deep Wound status effect.)
Plus, I think it would be awesome for Legion to actually play like, you know, a Legion! Lastly, if possible, it would be extremely cool if the teammates you summoned could wear any cosmetics you’ve acquired, making it so you could customize the look of your own Legion.
And now a variation of the above by @pemberley !
I propose that we take the same concept of Mob Mentality but instead the member seizes and holds the survivor in place for the player to stab. Every player in the map gets a scream notification, the killer sees the aura too. The grasp is inescapable except through other flashlight or cracker saves, if the survivor has a cracker themselves, or if the survivor “wiggles” like normal and claws at their hand or elbows them in the face - this would disable the trap, I think this would be more in line with Legion, it’s lore friendly, and probably won’t require as much code spaghetti as making accurate ai.
Which Mong added that the grab could give them either Exposed/Oblivious or both cause they are fighting out of the grab! Even if it didn't there are Add-on ideas that could do it!
Comments
Hey! I decided to make this a area for smaller changes to the Legion that I agree with! Though I see these as more of a buff than a rework, they still keep to what I'd like to see in a Legion update. Would be good for "Bite Size" updates to try and help Legion!
now and idea from @TWiXT
Honestly Legion was, without any doubt, pretty broken at release, but what the devs have done to them has been less of a balance for them, and more of an overkill reaction to the communities complaints. Don't get me wrong, many of the complaints against Legion were well founded, and I wouldn't go so far as to give them back their previous abilities, but a nice middle ground that makes their power a threat again would be welcomed in my book.
I have read your suggestions, and while I like them, I feel it's probably better to start smaller on things to try and make the Legion more viable. For this I'll offer my own 2 suggestions:
There's my 2 cents on the initial and minor buffs I believe the devs should test in an upcoming PTB in order to try and bring Legion more viability than they currently have. It's not much, but the way I see it, Legions game mechanics have always been on a knifes edge since day one. Sway only a little from 1 side to the other and you go from being pathetic to OP or vice versa. Finding a balance with that is really tricky, and doing it right means taking small steps... to that end I feel that either of these minor changes are a good place to start.
Now an idea from @Deadeye
If we stay with the new version of Legion, I would also suggest a Power rework. If not, at least the following changes might help:
That last one makes me sad, btw.
Another interesting Idea from @Dreamnomad ! Numbers might need some work though.
I want to see for Legion is for their to be some effect when hitting a survivor with deep wounds while in frenzy. It makes absolutely no logical sense for there to be zero effect when a survivor is stabbed. What I propose is for there to be a new effect introduced in the game. For now let's call it "nerve damage". A survivor with nerve damage has 30% reduced speed for all actions (including mending) until fully healed or placed on a hook. This would give Legion a choice and a reason to ignore a survivor.
Also, maybe adding a reduction to repair speed (etc.) while a survivor needs to Mend. I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere but I wanna put it here and can't find it.
and idea from @PGJSF !
BTW yes, as I already said on the other topic, Mending should apply the Oblivious status effect should be considered a healing action. I am convinced that these two changes alone would move Legion from “bottom” to “mid” tier. (I like the ideas! But I think they should also come with an increase to base FF MS and Vaulting speeds! Or something!!- {Ulven})
now a good idea from the wonderfully named @KnifeaToMeetYaXD
I've been following this thread for a while, and I'm glad to see a big Legion thread has been created. Hopefully the devs pay these ideas a thought.
My ideas:
Frenzy: Increase vaulting speed back to original speed. Increase speed to 135% but lower length by 2 seconds. Reduce cooldown to 3 seconds. Every successful hit on a non-deep wounded survivors reduces cooldown by .5 seconds. Missed attacks reduce 50% of the meter. Landing a successful hit no longer reduces the power gauge. The power gauge now refills in 15 seconds instead of 20. Terror Radius is reduced to 24 meters during Frenzy. The red-outline on survivors marked by Killer Instinct will be displayed once again.
Deep Wounds: While inflicted, the survivor can not preform actions such as repairing, healing others, or breaking totems. Mending now has skill checks. Failing a Mending skill check will interrupt the action and reduce 30% of the meter, or down the survivor if there is less than 30% remaining. Deep Wounds Time reduced to 10 seconds. Feral Frenzy attacks reduce Deep Wounds by 2.5 seconds, however the meter cannot be reduced under 2.5 seconds this way. Deep Wounds reduces while mending, however, the survivor will not be downed if they are mending when the time reaches 0, but while be downed if they cancel mending. Mending time is also increased by 5 seconds.
and now an idea from @Auron471 !
Feral Frenzy CD meter will not get drained when M1ing a survivor.
You will not lose FF if you hit a survivor with deep wound. (The deep wound timer is still NOT affected by multiple FF hits). Hitting a different survivor each time will refresh the timer AND increase the max FF timer by 3s. Hitting the same survivor two times in a row will not grant t he 3s bonus. (You lose these bonuses when FF ends)
Activate FF and hit your first survivor: the max time for FF goes from 10 to 13. Then you switch targets and hit a 2nd survivor. Now you have 16s to find another survivor. And so on. This bonus has a max time of 20s.
FF has a built in bloodhound. (But significantly weaker)
FF has a CD of 15s instead of 20s.
Killer instinct lingers for 5s after FF has ended
FF will apply hemorrhage for 30s if the hit survivor was healthy. 60s if injured. (Hit survivors twice to apply 60s of hemorrhage.)
The Pin addons: Apply 30s of the status effect if the survivor was healthy. Apply 60s if they are injured. No need to double tap injured survivors.
Iridescent Button: In addition, it also hides the red stain for 60s after hitting a survivor with FF. regain the red stain after hitting another survivor.
You can track blood in FF. You cannot track scratch marks
Franks Mixtape: Considerably reduces the time required to mend. Tremendously increases running speed, and vaulting speed.
Add-ons!
These are by @PGJSF !
I also think, like everyone else, that most of his addons are in need of a rework. I don’t have many ideas, but here we go.
Also I fully agree on having a shorter cooldown for FF and removing the M1 penalty.
now for some by @KnifeaToMeetYaXD
In continuation to my previous post, I will also be listing off ways to changes Legion's addons. However do note that these addons are based of MY CHANGES. So an addon that might not make sense currently, WOULD make sense with my changes. Please give any feedback or questions as I will gladly answer them :D
Common Addons:
Smiley Face Pin: Gives Blindness for 120 seconds and is done on Intial FF hit.
Scratched Ruler: No change
Mischief List: Increases Duration by 1 second
Friendship Bracelet: Increase Killer Instinct by 4m, and increase FF movement speed by 3%
Uncommon Addons:
Never-Sleep Pills: Increase Killer Instinct by 8m, and Increase FF movement speed by 4%
Mural Sketch: Increase FF duration by 1.75 seconds
Julie's Mixtape: Increase vaulting speeds during FF by 10%
Etched Ruler: FF refills 4 seconds faster
Defaced Smiley Pin: Gives Mangled for 120 seconds and is done on intial FF hit
Rare Addons:
The Legion Pin: Gives Broken status effect for 120 seconds and is done on intial FF hit
Susie's Mixtape: Increases Killer Instinct by 16m and increases FF movement speed by 5%
Stolen Sketchbook: Increases FF Duration by 2.5 seconds
Nasty Blade: Considerably reduce Mending Skill Check Zones sizes, and increase failure penalty to 50% of Deep Wounds timer
Joey's Mixtape: Increases vaulting speed during FF by 20%
Very Rare Addons:
Stab Wounds Study: Hitting a Deep Wounded survivor with FF reduces the time to 2.5 seconds instantly
Frank's Mixtape: Pallets dropped on the Legion during FF are instantly broken. Stun time from FF and pallets dropped on the Legion during FF increased to 3.5 seconds
Filthy Blade: Tremendously reduce Mending Skill Check zones sizes, and failing a skill check will down the survivor regardless of how much is left on their timer
Cold Dirt: The cooldown time is reduced by .75 seconds instead of .5 seconds for the first 2 survivors inflicted with Deep Wounds
Ultra Rare Addons:
Iridescent Button: The terror radius and Killer Instinct cover the entire map, pallets vaulted are broken, and FF movement speed is increased by 10%. FF duration is reduced by 2 seconds
Fuming Mixtape: Windows vaulted during FF are blocked for its duration and 10 seconds after it. Scratch Mark's and blood are now visible, however Killer Instinct cannot be triggered. Hitting a survivor will injure them or down them if they are already injured. Missing an attack will end the power. Hitting a survivor will end the power. FF duration increased by 2 seconds, charge time is increased by 15 seconds.
Tell me what yall think!
The 1st idea is good, the 2nd would be overpowered. There is a reason that 4.6 m/s killers have a big terror radius.
Legion should be in a frenzy and rushdown a survivor, not sneak up on them. That's what his power was made for. He rushes down one or multiple survivors in quick succession. But, he must have a counterplay to that.
Also, this won't fix him because the main problem isn't that survivors know where he is all the time, but yes the lack of pressure that his power gives. I know that removing his terror radius would put pressure, but the key facts and the fun part remain untouched (and very bad).
More movement speed would be appreciated, no slugged vaults would be appreciated too, not ending the power on a miss would be really cool too.
What you're saying is good for Legion from a competitive perspective, yeah. But it's not enough and imo it brings more problems than it solves because survivors will say that he is unfun to play against.
This is exactly the same as hex:ruin. It just affects the survivors directly, you won't interact with it. That's why it is a very bad perk from a fun perspective and it just ruins the survivor's game and maybe yours because you can't combo it with anything that you can interact with.
Example of an interaction build: Vault speed Legion.
Example of a non-interactive build: Impossible skillchecks legion.
It only affects the survivors directly, Idk if you're understanding my point.
I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying that it doesn't change anything from Legion's perspective. Because the base stats of the power don't let you go that far on a short time.
In my opinion: boost move speed FF, Remove red stain in FF, and double terror radius after a successful FF hit
Boost base speed in Feral Frenzy and make it so for each Survivor he hits in Frenzy makes him faster in my opinion?
He/She had to have a 32 terror radius cause of the 115% speed, sorry.
If they removed his terror radius, what would happen to killer instinct?
How will they do that?
That would change legion's playstile but would be cool(and also the trailer would be coherent)
I actually really like that, but you need to change deep wounds to not go down within a 24 fixed distance.
Either way, explain better your idea. It is really good imo.
I know, I know. That's why I asked for you to explain more the general concept like.
Is Feral Frenzy infinite with the mask on?
Would Mask Off stance have a m/s penalty, making legion a 4.4 m/s?
Things like these, I don't need the numbers.
Idk if the infinite feral frenzy should be a thing. Because you won't run away from something that you know you can't run away from.
The 4.4 m/s is fine.
It's a cool idea but it's really difficult to realize tbh
I still think that legion needs something to get the second hit. I know he can be sneaky while people are mending, but you can know where he is because you know the terror radius ended.
Might step on Ghost Face's toes a little bit.
Ghostface is like a pig (with 0 tr) but he changes for the ability, so why not another killer with 0 tr that works differently?
While I would LOVE for Legion to have 0 TR, (my favorite playstyles are stealth and rushdown) they would have to do it in a way that wasnt a "Switch it on" ability like Ghost's. Maybe Legion could earn his 0 TR through Frenzy? With each survivor woth deep wound, he gets increased TR in Frenzy and decreased TR out of Frenzy?
Yeah there are a lot of possible things, devs take these ideas pls.
Thank you for the feedback! Honestly, you have good points but remember! People will say Legion isnt fun to play against no matter what. Also, that point about Ruin made no sense to me. Ruin is almost needed at high ranks, but people are saying it's unfun? I don't use it merely cause it always goes down instantly.
It would be on a set radius. I said that in the post.
Some of these are really good! Just remember that a bigger TR in FF will just show you people you can't get too. Yes, you can use the information but its not too helpful.
Oh... well wish I could have seen Angry's suggestion before he was banned. Anyone remember it?
This is partly why I was suggesting TR changes.
Oh now that is an interesting idea! Really fun way to look at it. Other than normally the first person you hit will just Mend on the spot, so you likely will NEVER have everyone Deep Wounded at all times.
Oh shoot, I didn't see the first part! Yes, I think that's a good idea too! Then you can start snowballing speed and loop around. Very interesting!
Can I also point out that Wraith doesn't have TR in his cloak but still moves 115%
Yes I know FF makes you faster but it can not DOWN you. That's the balancing point. The no TR would only be in FF. See what we were thinking?
EDIT: added "Remove red stain" to the first idea and added a suggestion to make the vault speeds the same as they used to be.
My point when i mentioned ruin was that it wasnt interactive for the killer. I know it is needed, but not fun to use. The only difference is that games last longer because gen times are short.
I dont like to use ruin because it doesnt contribute for my fun, just contributes if you consider increasing the game by a little a fun thing. Which i partially agree.
Either way people will complain about legion. They have the fame, no getting rid of it now :/
It does make me sad that Legion hate has just become a meme. I gettold alot of terrible things just cause I play Legion. I am hoping with some changes they can be more fun for both sides, even if i love the rushdown play style I was trying to keep with my changes.
I hate Ruin personally cause it never feels like it does anything. I get more outta TT or Surge, I feel. At least those perks can't be removed.
Just to explain after bouncing this off a few survivor friends now. This idea is to make Legion's power more Dynamic and interesting on both sides and more useful to Legion as a whole.
No longer would it be "Oh he hit someone I need to listen for TR and run as soon as I hear it." it would be "Oh he hit someone, he could be coming for me, I need to hide or be on the lookout."
It would increase tension and make the game much more fun.
Revert vault speed changes and make base cooldown 3
On top of my idea or instead of?
M bad fam didn't read the post just giving my suggestions of a good buff for now
Oh that's fine! Take time to read it when you get a chance and tell me what you think.
This is the least toxic thread I've seen in months, and it's about fuckin Legion lol
I try to be understanding and not toxic in anything I do honestly. I rarely even slug on my games as Legion! Can you imagine that? But yes! I'm so happy everyone is being Civil.