I believe a good reasonable buff would be the following:
1. 3 sec fatigue (4 seconds base)
2. Pins proc on first hit (2nd now)
3. Swap out increased KI range for speed add-ons (example <slightly>0.02 <moderately> 0.06 <tremendously> 0.1)
4. Buff fume Mixtape: increase vault speed <window> 1.00 second (1.15 seconds base, max 0.95 seconds) <pallet> 1.20 seconds ( 1.35 seconds base, max 1.05).
5. Frank's Mixtape (Now see blood or scratch marks also hitting a survivor affected by DW applies Hindered <2-5%> repair/heal speed debuff).
6. Stab Wounds Study: removes 10 seconds from DW timer (5 seconds base).
7. Hitting an already DW survivor applies hemerage effect until fully healed.
Tl;Dr only slightly changes are needed.
The speed add-ons aren't high enough to matter. Bump those a tickle.
You'd only have people running Fuming with that, as Legion can be looped in FF atm.
That would also make Franks REALLY strong, and honestly you should be able to see blood base.
Hemorrhage does nothing.
Sadly, I do not agree with your proposed changes. They seem very very underwhelming.
The 3rd person Legion hits in FF should be downed or injured instead of put in mending, this will encourage him/her to chase people.
I must say, I was disappointed in Legion after the initial trailer, I imagined taking on the appearance on one of the survivors (maybe the first one you see or something). Then walking up to a gen (maybe even able to repair it!, as you could..oops, missed the skill check or really do some repairing to make the survivor think your not the killer). Then jump scare them and pull them off the gen, perhaps a kicked gen that Legion worked on with a survivor get's the overcharge effect like the killer perk, but without having to bring the perk, or perhaps repairing is slowed by 15% of something).
Maybe FF is fully charged when you make a hook, enabled you to spring off (this may require some other change to have FF is charged, but I'll let someone smarter think on that one).
I want TRAILER Legion!
This was just a thought after really .... most but not all the pages here, so if someone already suggested this....my bad I missed it.
Sadly the Devs have said they will NEVER make a disguise Killer. Besides, Voice comms would stomp that power in half. Why would you want to repair the gen and help the other side? Even more so when the other survivors will be working on gens too. It sounds good in theory but it really would NOT be good. Also FF already injures.
Besides a good amount of Legion mains (myself included) enjoy the rush down style of Legion. We want to keep that.
It does remind me of another thread someone proposed but I had the same issues with that one too. If you come up with something that DOES keep the Rush Down style, I will be more than happy to look at it!
Have Fun in the Fog!
Honestly Legion was, without any doubt, pretty broken at release, but what the devs have done to them has been less of a balance for them, and more of an overkill reaction to the communities complaints. Don't get me wrong, many of the complaints against Legion were well founded, and I wouldn't go so far as to give them back their previous abilities, but a nice middle ground that makes their power a threat again would be welcomed in my book.
I have read your suggestions, and while I like them, I feel it's probably better to start smaller on things to try and make the Legion more viable. For this I'll offer my own 2 suggestions:
There's my 2 cents on the initial and minor buffs I believe the devs should test in an upcoming PTB in order to try and bring Legion more viability than they currently have. It's not much, but the way I see it, Legions game mechanics have always been on a knifes edge since day one. Sway only a little from 1 side to the other and you go from being pathetic to OP or vice versa. Finding a balance with that is really tricky, and doing it right means taking small steps... to that end I feel that either of these minor changes are a good place to start.
These are good for minor changes and I really do like how you laid them out with such thought. I kinda want to put it on the front page somewhere as a "Hey if you won't do more, why not this?" Kinda option!
Just remember anyone that is nostalgic for the Old Legion. They were not as good as you remember them, just cause New Legion is crippled. We need something NEW that keeps that Rush down Joy!
I was hoping that the injuring of the survivor on the 3rd FF hit (during one FF) would keep the rush feel going... I though 4 different survivors might be a little to hard
ok, Maybe not actually be able to repair, but having it appear that you are. Then you might lure other survivors over to FF hit them.
I dunno, just spitballing ideas
Naw man I get it. I'd prolly be more behind it if Devs hadn't said no to any disguise Killer ever.
Edit: Made the second post into an area for "Bite Sized" Legion updates! Kinda a stepping stone for bigger changes!
Now an Idea from @Mister_xD
what would be your thoughts on this Deep Wound change:
when Deep Wound is applied to you, you will get the timer, just like now, being paused.
the timer will stay paused until you start an action such as repair, heal, mend, sabotage, cleanse, etc. this only excludes actions needed for chases like dropping pallets, vaulting things, etc.
once the timer starts, it will not stop. if the timer runs out, you go down. this includes while being in the mending action (you may have to take a look at legions knife add ons then)
that way, survivors inflicted with deep wound would actually have to focus on mending in a safe area instead of just doing gens while the killer is around chasing someone else and it would allow Legion to actually be the game slowing killer they are supposed to be.
you could also reenable the killers ability to see the timer then to know when someone gets rid of their deep wound, as the timer would remain paused when a survivor leaves the TR, so its no longer a free whispers effect.
This one is down here, cause it's more of an idea for DW, but still related to Legion!
hmm, i really like this idea!
the guy that came up with this must have been a genius! Kappa
Yes, I wonder who it could have been XD
Op! I read this idea wrong!
Just something i've noticed but This image:
Seems to be very true.
Another Smaller idea from @Ark_the_Bonsai
Simple Solution IMO.
With both of these changes he gains a ton of map pressure and knowledge. They'd still be an m1 killer but they'd be able to harass people more often. They'd feel like they're everywhere. They'd feel like a legion.
Didn't put this in the "small updates" section at the start cause I feel it's been stated there before. If i'm wrong, yell at me and i'll fix it.
one day @Peanits Will comment on this thread! Or I hope so.
Edited the title cause this is really what this has turned into. I'm still looking for and trying to think up more ideas!
My friend showed me a clip of them doing multiple killer glitch except all of them had Stridor. (3 killers) and it was [BAD WORD]. He din't have iron will so if you put stridor on legion with this may or may not torture for everyone else
I am not quite sure what you mean by this. Are you suggesting Stridor base kit, as an add-on, or as part of just a build?
build. It would be insanely loud if you had stridor on with this change
Welp, I'm sick as a dog so I wont be likely to think up any more ideas for Legion for a bit. But if you HAVE an idea or want me to add it to the front or something LET ME KNOW! I will be here!
But good news! BHVR has read this thread!
Okay, quick thought. Why is it so punishing to miss as Legion? You lose your power AND get stunned.
I don't think there is another Killer that has this issue, right?
Also one more thing for the people that want Old Legion back... some quotes I found about them at the time:
Also, Legion OP? Annoying, for sure, but he's still trash and requires an exploit to be decent. Or Frank's Mixtape.
I'm sorry, but how does anybody find Legion OP? Even the devs specifically stated they made him for fun more than competency.
Most loopable killer in the game, cannot down people with his power unless you use Frank's Mix Tape (a purple add-on by the way, and still need to hit people 3 times with it), mending not being a healing action ruins any good perk builds you can make, the power doesn't recharge fast enough and doesn't last long enough, too slow to chase people without his power, do I need to go on? This killer is a joke, nobody's afraid of them. This killer is a literal door mat even for the worst of survivors. Even at what this killer is supposedly good at (injuring multiple people at once), it does nothing in the long run since good survivors always split up.
he's just so terrible it's unfathomable to me
But yeah Legion is a trash can of a killer and BHVR should be ashamed of making a useless killer.
The Devs are even QUOTED as saying they built Old Legion for Fun, not to be good. Which is like in "Kung Pow: Enter the fist" where they taught that one guy wrong as a joke.
Don't get me wrong, I loved the FEELING of Old Legion and I still enjoy New Legion. But Old Legion was still really bad. It just feels like it was "Glorious" cause we are stuck with this crippled version we have now. We need good buffs and tweaks. (Some would argue a full on rework. I'm not sure, though Mob Mentality is still REALLY cool in concept and i'd like to see something that used the LEGION part of it.... without any stupid locker stuff)
Devs, take your time and really plan out what you do with Legion. Just fixing add-ons isnt enough, but I don't want you to rush either. Look through all the thoughts here and other places, take input from Legion mains, and give us something both Fun and Good (because it can be both) that keeps the "Rush Down" or "Blitz" attack play style. I know you can do it. @Peanits @not_Queen
Here I am. Aside from my suggestions on how to buff Legion made in another topic, I have two objections about what’s written here.
Point 5: At base, being hit with Feral Frenzy causes mangled that persists until fully healed. Can't be stacked with other mangled status effects like sloppy butcher but works with coulraphobia and the like.
And the sentence:
“Survivor now remove the DW status effect by healing to full health, not by mending. DW lasts indefinitely.“
Both these points would be a huge buff to Self-care and we don’t want that. Mending should stay as a base action performed by all perkless survivors.
Ohh interesting. Why would the first be a buff to self care, if it gives mangled?
That seconds one was to add balance to the secondary power he was suggesting.
Not because it adds Mangled, but because in both those points you take away Mending and put Healing instead. How do a survivor heal himself? Self-Care. So giving a fast, easy to hit, avoiding loop killer a power that forces you to heal yourself, you are giving an enormous buff to SC.
He wanted to avoid mending cause that's one reason Survivors seem to hate them. Did you read all of this idea?
If they are over there SCing then i'll be cool with them wasting time. Unless, and I admit it can happen, I am missing something.