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  • I believe a good reasonable buff would be the following:

    1. 3 sec fatigue (4 seconds base)

    2. Pins proc on first hit (2nd now)

    3. Swap out increased KI range for speed add-ons (example <slightly>0.02 <moderately> 0.06 <tremendously> 0.1)

    4. Buff fume Mixtape: increase vault speed <window> 1.00 second (1.15 seconds base, max 0.95 seconds) <pallet> 1.20 seconds ( 1.35 seconds base, max 1.05).

    5. Frank's Mixtape (Now see blood or scratch marks also hitting a survivor affected by DW applies Hindered <2-5%> repair/heal speed debuff).

    6. Stab Wounds Study: removes 10 seconds from DW timer (5 seconds base).

    7. Hitting an already DW survivor applies hemerage effect until fully healed.

    Tl;Dr only slightly changes are needed.

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    The speed add-ons aren't high enough to matter. Bump those a tickle.

    You'd only have people running Fuming with that, as Legion can be looped in FF atm.

    That would also make Franks REALLY strong, and honestly you should be able to see blood base.

    Hemorrhage does nothing.

    Sadly, I do not agree with your proposed changes. They seem very very underwhelming.

  • TensorTensor Member Posts: 254

    The 3rd person Legion hits in FF should be downed or injured instead of put in mending, this will encourage him/her to chase people.

    I must say, I was disappointed in Legion after the initial trailer, I imagined taking on the appearance on one of the survivors (maybe the first one you see or something). Then walking up to a gen (maybe even able to repair it!, as you could..oops, missed the skill check or really do some repairing to make the survivor think your not the killer). Then jump scare them and pull them off the gen, perhaps a kicked gen that Legion worked on with a survivor get's the overcharge effect like the killer perk, but without having to bring the perk, or perhaps repairing is slowed by 15% of something).

    Maybe FF is fully charged when you make a hook, enabled you to spring off (this may require some other change to have FF is charged, but I'll let someone smarter think on that one).

    I want TRAILER Legion!

    This was just a thought after really .... most but not all the pages here, so if someone already suggested this....my bad I missed it.

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    Oh hey!

    Sadly the Devs have said they will NEVER make a disguise Killer. Besides, Voice comms would stomp that power in half. Why would you want to repair the gen and help the other side? Even more so when the other survivors will be working on gens too. It sounds good in theory but it really would NOT be good. Also FF already injures.

    Besides a good amount of Legion mains (myself included) enjoy the rush down style of Legion. We want to keep that.

    It does remind me of another thread someone proposed but I had the same issues with that one too. If you come up with something that DOES keep the Rush Down style, I will be more than happy to look at it!

    Have Fun in the Fog!

  • TWiXTTWiXT Member Posts: 1,698

    Honestly Legion was, without any doubt, pretty broken at release, but what the devs have done to them has been less of a balance for them, and more of an overkill reaction to the communities complaints. Don't get me wrong, many of the complaints against Legion were well founded, and I wouldn't go so far as to give them back their previous abilities, but a nice middle ground that makes their power a threat again would be welcomed in my book.

    I have read your suggestions, and while I like them, I feel it's probably better to start smaller on things to try and make the Legion more viable. For this I'll offer my own 2 suggestions:

    1. Give Legion back their previous movement and vaulting speeds. In the current build the Legion only benefits from afflicting DW to survivors if they can effectively chain the affliction to multiple survivors on the team. This is impossible in most circumstances currently, due to their slower movement and vaulting speeds, which give survivors far too much wiggle room to evade the Legion until their power runs out. The original version of the Legion still had this problem, but a good player could manage to get all 4 on a mid sized map before their power ran out. This emphasized skill and incentive to try for the 4 hits because it was a possibility with the right add-on's. Current Legion however only does this when the map is very small, or if every survivor is focusing on the same gen, but even then, they typically only hit 2 at the most due to survivors scattering like cockroaches as soon as the first one is struck. Current Legion moves at 5 m/s while in frenzy, whereas old Legion moved at 5.25m/s. Old Legion also Vaulted at the same rate survivors did, but current Legion Vaults at .5 seconds slower than they do, or at the same rate Bamboozle grants to a killer. Comparatively, Old Legions main advantage was the ability to catch up and keep up with survivors, but they also had a 2 second cooldown to slow them down, with that currently increased to 4 seconds, I see no reason why they need to be any slower in Frenzy.
    2. Reduce the Deep Wounds timer from 30 seconds, to 10. When Legion was changed the Devs already did enough to reduce the Deep Wounds Status effect from a threat to being completely non-threatening, simply by making the timer pause whenever in the killers TR, and making it pause again while the survivor mends. The fact that it retained its 30 second timer is a grossly unjustified at this point. The TR pause alone already killed the possibility of a Legion player "Moonwalking" to allow the timer to bleed them out, but the pause on the mend timer... seriously? As if a survivor outside of the Legions TR and thus out of immediate danger isn't going to immediately start mending? If the timer were 10 seconds instead of 30, survivors would have to pay much more attention to the DW status, and be much more vigilant to mend as soon as they are out of the TR. The Franklin's Mix tape also could benefit in this effect if it reduced the timer by 5 second, which would make a 2 hit + 4 second stun much more worth while if the survivor left the killers TR, and thus make the add-on significant;y more useful than it currently is (by my calculations, to down a survivor with the current FMT add-on, Legion would need to relentlessly pursue and keep striking a survivor for 80+ seconds). IMO, This would make the DW status effect a threat again, and TBH, that is what the Legion really needs right now... to have a power that is either more beneficial to their map control, or a dire and looming threat to survivors affected by it at all times.

    There's my 2 cents on the initial and minor buffs I believe the devs should test in an upcoming PTB in order to try and bring Legion more viability than they currently have. It's not much, but the way I see it, Legions game mechanics have always been on a knifes edge since day one. Sway only a little from 1 side to the other and you go from being pathetic to OP or vice versa. Finding a balance with that is really tricky, and doing it right means taking small steps... to that end I feel that either of these minor changes are a good place to start.

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    These are good for minor changes and I really do like how you laid them out with such thought. I kinda want to put it on the front page somewhere as a "Hey if you won't do more, why not this?" Kinda option!

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    Just remember anyone that is nostalgic for the Old Legion. They were not as good as you remember them, just cause New Legion is crippled. We need something NEW that keeps that Rush down Joy!

  • TensorTensor Member Posts: 254

    I was hoping that the injuring of the survivor on the 3rd FF hit (during one FF) would keep the rush feel going... I though 4 different survivors might be a little to hard

    ok, Maybe not actually be able to repair, but having it appear that you are. Then you might lure other survivors over to FF hit them.

    I dunno, just spitballing ideas

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    Naw man I get it. I'd prolly be more behind it if Devs hadn't said no to any disguise Killer ever.

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    Edit: Made the second post into an area for "Bite Sized" Legion updates! Kinda a stepping stone for bigger changes!

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    Now an Idea from @Mister_xD

    what would be your thoughts on this Deep Wound change:

    when Deep Wound is applied to you, you will get the timer, just like now, being paused.

    the timer will stay paused until you start an action such as repair, heal, mend, sabotage, cleanse, etc. this only excludes actions needed for chases like dropping pallets, vaulting things, etc.

    once the timer starts, it will not stop. if the timer runs out, you go down. this includes while being in the mending action (you may have to take a look at legions knife add ons then)

    that way, survivors inflicted with deep wound would actually have to focus on mending in a safe area instead of just doing gens while the killer is around chasing someone else and it would allow Legion to actually be the game slowing killer they are supposed to be.

    you could also reenable the killers ability to see the timer then to know when someone gets rid of their deep wound, as the timer would remain paused when a survivor leaves the TR, so its no longer a free whispers effect.

    This one is down here, cause it's more of an idea for DW, but still related to Legion!

  • Mister_xDMister_xD Member Posts: 6,980

    hmm, i really like this idea!

    the guy that came up with this must have been a genius! Kappa

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535
    edited October 2019

    Op! I read this idea wrong!

    Post edited by UlvenDagoth on
  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    Just something i've noticed but This image:

    Seems to be very true.

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    Another Smaller idea from @Ark_the_Bonsai

    Simple Solution IMO.

    1. Remove his cooldown or make it incredibly shorter. It's completely pointless now for him to have to wait to reuse feral frenzy so often when he can't down people with it. (change Frank's Mixtape because it's trash as is and is the only reason the long cooldown makes sense)
    2. Massively pump up his Feral Frenzy movement speed and reinstate the old vault speeds. Why should they be so slow if they can't down anyone. That's illogical when you have people like Spirit and Billy in the game who are both fast and lethal.

    With both of these changes he gains a ton of map pressure and knowledge. They'd still be an m1 killer but they'd be able to harass people more often. They'd feel like they're everywhere. They'd feel like a legion.

    Didn't put this in the "small updates" section at the start cause I feel it's been stated there before. If i'm wrong, yell at me and i'll fix it.

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    one day @Peanits Will comment on this thread! Or I hope so.

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    Edited the title cause this is really what this has turned into. I'm still looking for and trying to think up more ideas!

  • 8obot1c8obot1c Member Posts: 1,129

    My friend showed me a clip of them doing multiple killer glitch except all of them had Stridor. (3 killers) and it was #########. He din't have iron will so if you put stridor on legion with this may or may not torture for everyone else

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    I am not quite sure what you mean by this. Are you suggesting Stridor base kit, as an add-on, or as part of just a build?

  • 8obot1c8obot1c Member Posts: 1,129

    build. It would be insanely loud if you had stridor on with this change

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    Welp, I'm sick as a dog so I wont be likely to think up any more ideas for Legion for a bit. But if you HAVE an idea or want me to add it to the front or something LET ME KNOW! I will be here!

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    But good news! BHVR has read this thread!

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    Okay, quick thought. Why is it so punishing to miss as Legion? You lose your power AND get stunned.

    I don't think there is another Killer that has this issue, right?

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535
    edited October 2019

    Also one more thing for the people that want Old Legion back... some quotes I found about them at the time:

    Also, Legion OP? Annoying, for sure, but he's still trash and requires an exploit to be decent. Or Frank's Mixtape.

    I'm sorry, but how does anybody find Legion OP? Even the devs specifically stated they made him for fun more than competency.

    Most loopable killer in the game, cannot down people with his power unless you use Frank's Mix Tape (a purple add-on by the way, and still need to hit people 3 times with it), mending not being a healing action ruins any good perk builds you can make, the power doesn't recharge fast enough and doesn't last long enough, too slow to chase people without his power, do I need to go on? This killer is a joke, nobody's afraid of them. This killer is a literal door mat even for the worst of survivors. Even at what this killer is supposedly good at (injuring multiple people at once), it does nothing in the long run since good survivors always split up. 

    he's just so terrible it's unfathomable to me

    But yeah Legion is a trash can of a killer and BHVR should be ashamed of making a useless killer.

    The Devs are even QUOTED as saying they built Old Legion for Fun, not to be good. Which is like in "Kung Pow: Enter the fist" where they taught that one guy wrong as a joke.

    Don't get me wrong, I loved the FEELING of Old Legion and I still enjoy New Legion. But Old Legion was still really bad. It just feels like it was "Glorious" cause we are stuck with this crippled version we have now. We need good buffs and tweaks. (Some would argue a full on rework. I'm not sure, though Mob Mentality is still REALLY cool in concept and i'd like to see something that used the LEGION part of it.... without any stupid locker stuff)

    Devs, take your time and really plan out what you do with Legion. Just fixing add-ons isnt enough, but I don't want you to rush either. Look through all the thoughts here and other places, take input from Legion mains, and give us something both Fun and Good (because it can be both) that keeps the "Rush Down" or "Blitz" attack play style. I know you can do it. @Peanits @not_Queen

    Post edited by UlvenDagoth on
  • PGJSFPGJSF Member Posts: 369

    Here I am. Aside from my suggestions on how to buff Legion made in another topic, I have two objections about what’s written here.

    Point 5: At base, being hit with Feral Frenzy causes mangled that persists until fully healed. Can't be stacked with other mangled status effects like sloppy butcher but works with coulraphobia and the like.

    And the sentence:

    “Survivor now remove the DW status effect by healing to full health, not by mending. DW lasts indefinitely.“

    Both these points would be a huge buff to Self-care and we don’t want that. Mending should stay as a base action performed by all perkless survivors.

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    Ohh interesting. Why would the first be a buff to self care, if it gives mangled?

    That seconds one was to add balance to the secondary power he was suggesting.

  • PGJSFPGJSF Member Posts: 369

    Not because it adds Mangled, but because in both those points you take away Mending and put Healing instead. How do a survivor heal himself? Self-Care. So giving a fast, easy to hit, avoiding loop killer a power that forces you to heal yourself, you are giving an enormous buff to SC.

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    He wanted to avoid mending cause that's one reason Survivors seem to hate them. Did you read all of this idea?

    If they are over there SCing then i'll be cool with them wasting time. Unless, and I admit it can happen, I am missing something.

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