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Spirit and basekit Nurse aren't bad or OP, ya'll just need to git gud

Both Spirit and Nurse are fine and balanced. The only problems were Prayer Beads (debatable) and 4,5 and Omega Blink.

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Comments

  • AkiTheKittenAkiTheKitten Member Posts: 149

    Losing isn't fun but it's part of the game. Having Nurse and Spirit hate-nerfed isn't fun for those who play them

  • AkiTheKittenAkiTheKitten Member Posts: 149

    If you can't go against them that's on you. I still don't see why both are hated, they are easy to counter if you think. But hey nerf all the good killers, not our problem finding lobbies will take ages

  • AkiTheKittenAkiTheKitten Member Posts: 149

    I'm literally a Hag/Huntress main, I play Spirit on ocassion but you do you boo

  • AkiTheKittenAkiTheKitten Member Posts: 149

    I did, I'm consistently in purple ranks, tho I do avoid red ranks like the Plague. I got gud, maybe you should too :)

  • slimeslimeslimeslime Member Posts: 15

    agreed

    and yes prayer beads is broken because there's no counterplay compared to base power spirit

  • DeadByTunnelightDeadByTunnelight Member Posts: 48

    People are bad because on red ranks they don't want to play as any other killer but only nurse or spirit. Why? Because you are bad, no survivors. I'm glad that FINALLY they are changing her. No more 4 or 5 boosted blinks. Next is spirit I hope with her addons..

  • AkiTheKittenAkiTheKitten Member Posts: 149

    No clue how those contradict eachother but ok, I'll just ignore you at this point, you're nothing but spam :)

  • MochanMochan Member Posts: 2,388
    edited October 8

    They are not "not bad." They're actually bad. I'll give you that they aren't exactly OP, but they aren't really much fun to go against as a survivor. Especially Spirit.

    That's why they are bad.

    And they become worse with add-ons and certain perks. Anyone who says Slug Nurse with IF, Distressing and KO isn't ridiculous has never really gone up against good one.

  • Chewy102Chewy102 Member Posts: 151



    I don't exactly call other Killers needing to lose multiple gens to land a single hook all that fun either.

    If you play Clown, Wraith, Freddy, Trapper, Pig, Shape, Legion, Plague, Doctor, hell it doesn't mater what Killer is listed here. The majority of Killers in DbD simply aren't fun to play as the higher you go in ranks. The more skill that gets added into the game, for both Killer/Survivor, the less these Killers can do overall. It simply takes too long for most of them to go though loop after loop. That then leads to those Killers being taunted or BMed more often than not.


    Why should it be fun for one side and not the other? The majority of Killers already can't deal with high rank gameplay. Nerfing the only Killer/s able to do so is only going to do more harm than good. This updated Nurse is going to make high rank for Killer players that much worse when there is even less viable choices to pick from. That in turn will make Survivor gameplay worse as well when they see even LESS different Killers than what few they see already.


    Does Nurse need her adjustments? Yes, Nurse is way too far ahead of the other Killers.

    But other things need to come first. Other Killers need to be high rank viable before Nurse gets brought down. If you do things out of order, it tends to cause more problems than it fixes. It's the same as building something. If your foundation is crap, nothing will stand on it.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 4,011

    Then the solution isn't a nerf since those are designed to solve balance issues. If you see a non-balance issue with the Spirit then the solution should be set up accordingly.

  • Rin_is_my_waifuRin_is_my_waifu Member Posts: 255

    Let me translate: Spirit and nurse are not fun cause we can't bully and loop them for ages

  • BongbingbingBongbingbing Member Posts: 1,389

    The Problem is that a lot of Survivors want a DIRECT Counterplay for every Killer no matter their playstyle.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 4,011

    For example my go to solution has been to have her leave a trail after ending a phase walk showing the patch she took. This gives visual feedback to show what just happened turning:

    "Omg she came out of nowhere wtf!?"

    to

    "Omg she was waiting there the whole time? I should be less predictable with my vaults next time"

    This technically does have small balance implications, however since usually the information is only given when it's too late to be used to directly help in that specific moment it ultimately would be used as data for determining what to do when mindgaming that Spirit. However the biggest effect a change like this would have is reducing frustration, which is a pure QoL effect rather than a balance one.

    It's easier to not be frustrated by something when you understand what went wrong and something like a trail helps with that.

  • luka2211luka2211 Member Posts: 91

    atm without using iron will(spirits run stridor anyway)you cant even have a single bit of counterplay.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 4,011

    At worst that's still false.

    If you have counterplay while injured with iron will then give her hell while you are still healthy.

    Also that's not even true since a lot of her counterplay is about messing with prediction which would still work even if you were fully visible.

  • luka2211luka2211 Member Posts: 91

    prediction is just a fancier word for guessing in this case,you cant predict where someone is going to go if you cant see em,hear them.And also alot of spirit mains i encounter say they have no problem with not being able to hear me,cause they hear my footsteps breathing etc.But you can outplay her if you get lucky,and choose the correct decision out of the ones that you had.Ofc out of the decisions you have none will 100% work you just choose what you think will work the best.Also the fact pallets are completely unplayable is kinda [BAD WORD].Like i said needing to have iron will is still kinda [BAD WORD],needing a perk to be able to even have a chance to outplay her.Once someone defending spirit told me "you dont need iron will it just makes it easier"how is there ANY predictions when you can just hear someones grunts?I know this doesnt have anything to do with our conversation atm but just putting that incase ur bout to say you dont even need iron will or something similar to it

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 4,011

    nonononono

    If you have enough information to deduce someone's next move rather than simply estimate it then that's a reaction. And the information required for an estimation doesn't need to be what they are doing at that exact moment since Humans act according to patterns which can be determined while playing with them and then utilized to determine the next move in the sequence.

    Obviously no action will work 100% of the time, if it did then you could simply preform that action every time and the Spirit would never hit you. Instead both you and the Spirit are forced to use what they've seen each other do in prior encounters to determine what they each will do in THIS encounter.

  • luka2211luka2211 Member Posts: 91

    knew u would introduce "patterns".They depend COMPLETELY on the other person and he can do something completely illogical of what you would think,so thats really unreliable.Like at t walls for example.First time they bait you into vaulting the window and you vault it.And then you would think they wouldnt do it again,but they do and you get baited again.Also where is that information ur talking about?Only thing i see is a spirit standing still with no sound or a whooshing sound.Im guessin you might be reffering to ur patterns again,but you dont have ENOUGH information if you guess wrong the first few times,which then brings me to the fact that it depends if you guess wrong or right the first few times.Also im really glad you didnt just say "git gud" or similar and are actually trying to have a normal conversation unlike many other players.

  • SairekSairek Member Posts: 1,950

    How am I supposed to watch and learn something and predict, when I cannot see or hear the opponent?


    I've said again and again I would love if Spirit would leave "ectoplasm" showing the path she phased in (so scratch marks for her) whenever she pops out of phasing so I could at least understand what path she took and why I got hit instead of just being left to wonder why. That way survivors can at least gauge how she plays and it'll make her less frustrating to play against while not directly nerfing her power at all. It would require the Spirit player to be a little more unpredictable for how she moves. If she always took a left at a TL wall for example, then the survivor could see that and play around it.

  • EndstilleEndstille Member Posts: 201

    Nurse is fun to go against, addon less it is really funny game and intense. I see you enjoy to bully bubba/clown/doctor/wraith and want ez wins. Literally go Play Nurse and you will see that addonless is totally fair, if you die 100% vs Nurse base kit that is on you.

  • arslaNarslaN Member Posts: 599

    Let me translate: spirit and nurse are balanced because I can get easy 4k's every match

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 4,011

    The information is from both the Spirit standing still (telegraphing that you need to do a juke even if it's not enough to know which one) and more importantly you have data on what they have been doing in previous chases or previous parts of that specific chase depending on it's length.

    For the record:

    Information = What you know about the current situation.

    Data = What you've seen in prior situations.

    These aren't the standard definitions but it's useful to distinguish between "I see them vaulting so I should cut them off" vs "they vaulted the last 6 times so I should cut them off for the 7th".

    EVERYONE acts according to patterns. It's simply an inescapable fact of human psychology. The difference from person to person is in what the pattern is and thus how easy it is to determine what someone's next action is varies depending on the complexity of the pattern, this is how we can say someone is more or less predictable than others even if it's all statistics when you boil down to it.

    For example me and my brother are very similar in how we treat these kinds of mindgame situations. So if we play rock paper scissors and tie the first throw then we nearly always tie the next few as well even though statistically that doesn't make any sense.

    In general however the factors that influence what someone will do in a given situation are:

    • Difficulty of each option - What physically can they do?
    • Payouts - What's the potential end results of each option?
    • Statistics - What do most people do in this situation?
    • Information - What options can they mechanically determine are not going to work?
    • The data they have on you - How predictable are you?

    All of these factors can be estimated. You know for sure what they Payouts are since they are static in any given situation. Statistic are also static but become less influencing as the game progresses. Information isn't quite known for sure due to things like Stridor but can still be estimated and is mostly static barring perks and fathers glasses. Data isn't static but you control it yourself and thus it is known.

    Data in particular is powerful due to how you can manipulate it to make sure the Spirit is more predictable in the endgame.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 4,011

    And yeah "git gud" isn't a productive thing to say. Give advice or you are wasting your time.

  • BossBoss Member, Trusted Posts: 6,800

    What's 4,5?

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 4,011

    I'm all for a trail and have suggested it myself before as a way to ease frustration and encourage this style of play.

    It's not strictly required since you can estimate what a Spirit did based off the outcome anyways. But it helps, especially for those who don't play Spirit.

  • TheBeanTheBean Member Posts: 2,130

    giggles!

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