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My attempt at adjusting self-unhooks.

TAGTAG Member Posts: 6,400
edited October 2019 in Feedback and Suggestions

Basically, I hate how kobeing is so luck-based and swingy. I also think Slippery Meat is stupid (Deliverance is totes fine, though). Here is my attempt at changing how players would unhook themselves, along with changes to Deliverance so it still functions properly and a new Slippery Meat (not sure how I feel about it, admittedly).

-While in Hook Stage 1, Survivors have 45 seconds to attempt a hook escape. If they do, they guarantee an escape from the hook, but the next time they are Hooked, they will be Sacrificed (unless they unhook themselves using Deliverance).

 -Survivors cannot attempt a Hook escape once the Exit Gates are powered (unless they use Deliverance).

(I am also thinking of having it so Decisive Strike no longer procs if you unhook yourself, but I'm not sure how necessary it is if you can't unhook during the endgame without Deliverance.)

New Deliverance:

After performing a Safe Hook Rescue on another Survivor, the Perk activates.

You can now unhook yourself after the Exit Gates are powered. Unhooking yourself also no longer causes you to skip a Hook Stage.

A successful Deliverance from the Hook triggers the Broken Status Effect for 100/80/60 seconds.

New Slippery Meat:

When you escape from the Killer's Grasp, break into a sprint at 150% your normal running speed for a maximum of 3 seconds.

Causes the Exhausted Status Effect for 60/50/40 seconds.

Slippery Meat cannot be used while Exhausted.

You do not recover from Exhaustion while running.

New NEW Slippery Meat (courtesy of @NuclearBurrito ):

When you are injured by the Killer and not put into the Dying State, you don't leave Scratch Marks or pools of blood for 2 seconds, and your movement speed is increased by an additional 30/40/50% for 2 seconds.

Slippery Meat has a cooldown of 60/50/40 seconds. (I'm still gonna try to put a cap on its use in case someone gets cheeky with a Syringe and manages to heal back to full in the middle of a chase. Dance With Me has a cool-down, and the cool-down is very unlikely to make a difference outside of the Syringe scenario, so I think this is reasonable.)

I admittedly don't really have a solution to what Luck should do in the face of this suggestion (as I don't think escaping from a Bear Trap should be RNG-based either), but I'll try to figure something out. In the meantime, feedback?

Post edited by TAG on


  • MiloMilo Member Posts: 5,451

    It's cool idea for Slippery Meat... but you won't be able to use it like ever (unless you mean to combo it with DS but then still just once when you could use Lithe/Sprint Burst and get the same effect). And it exhausts you. And you need to not be exhausted.

  • IrvinIrvin Member Posts: 98

    The main issues I see with these suggestions are:

    1) Killers will either camp the hook for 45 seconds or just tunnel vision the survivor once they unhook themselves since its only 1 hook to get you out of the game and if DS doesn't proc the survivor will be pretty much screwed.

    2) The slippery meat suggestion is pretty good, however requiring you not to be exhausted is not a good idea as most survivors have just used Balanced Landing or Dead Hard during the chase before they were downed. Meaning that in most cases they would never actually get to use the perk.

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 6,400
    edited October 2019

    1) This isn't even a good reason to camp the hook because you are letting other Survivors gen-rush instead of effectively gaining an extra hook state on that Survivor. As for tunneling, a free hook state for the Killer is meant to be the huge risk for going for the escape (similar to how too many failed attempts currently will push you to Hook Stage 2), so that to me is a good incentive to not just jump off the hook without at least considering the risk first.

    2) The point behind it is that if you can either pull off DS or have someone pull off a pallet or flashlight save (or sabotage a hook, I guess?), you make a completely clean get-away. I understand the whole thing with other Exhaustion perks, but what I'd personally like to avoid doing is creating a scenario where the Survivor gets a big chase going, extends that chase with Sprint Burst/Lithe/Balanced Landing/Dead Hard, then eventually getting downed, then potentially being able to make the cleanest of getaways with another speed boost. I'd be willing to give the perk something else to make it less niche, but I am not comfortable making it not an exhaustion perk.

    Post edited by TAG on
  • DudeDeliciousDudeDelicious Member Posts: 6,934

    I like Slippery Meat. Works great with Up The Ante & a Luck Offering.

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 6,400

    The reason I dislike Slippery Meat is that:

    1) I dislike self-unhooks being RNG-based.

    2) I dislike Bear Trap escapes being RNG-based.

    3) I dislike it when perks and items directly make Killer powers worse (or better, in the case of Hangman's Trick), such as toolboxes/Sabotage/Slippery Meat for Trapper, Flashlight for Wraith/Nurse/Hag, and Adrenaline for Freddy.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 5,416

    This version of Slippery Meat isn't good. It needs to have some advantage over other exhaustion perks if it is going to work.

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 6,400

    I'm pretty open to suggestions on how to buff it. Only thing I'm not comfortable doing for sure is making it not an exhaustion perk.

  • IrvinIrvin Member Posts: 98

    How about have it work like adrenaline, ignores exhaustion but causes exhaustion?

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 6,400
    edited October 2019

    That creates the problem I mentioned above of "use exhaustion perk to extend first chase, then get downed, use DS, and make a clean getaway with second exhaustion boost," which is effectively making it not an exhaustion perk.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 5,416
    edited October 2019

    Either massively extend the duration, give it a secondary effect or make it something else entirely.

    For example I think this effect would be cool:

    • During the speed boost after being damaged you don't leave scratchmarks or blood trails. Increase the damaged speed boost by 30/40/50%.

    For the record a 50% increase is 1 second or 2 meters of extra distance.

    The idea is that it's the OTHER kind of slippery. The kind where once you touch them they leave your grasp and you lose their trail.

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 6,400
    edited October 2019

    Considering it is a pretty free speed boost, it kinda means it should logically be an exhaustion perk (at least, for the speed boost part; the scratch mark/blood trail thing can just always happen). Would that be alright? I'd be on board with the idea if it was, but if it wasn't, it means you have two different perks that can extend a chase in one build, which I'm not sure I'm comfortable with.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 5,416

    It's 2 meters while exhaustion perks are 6 with the exception of DH which has I-frames and head on which is 12 meters (4*3). It isn't enough of an extender to justify exhaustion, or at least not 40 seconds of it.

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 6,400

    Hm, maybe. I guess I'm worried about even a slight boost like that being the straw that breaks the camel's back for killers that struggle to catch up the way a Nurse or a Spirit can. But maybe I am worrying too much, idk.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 5,416

    Whenever I think that I always think about how much of a benefit you get out of the current meta perks that they could be running instead.

    Sure 2 meters per chase is somewhat annoying, but is it more annoying than 10 meters and a free health state? Or 2 free health states after every unhook? Or a free get out of jail free card in the event that they mess up a mindgame and can't get to the pallet as a result?

    Every perk ran instead of a meta perk is a meta perk that you don't have to deal with, and its much easier to deal with a minor speed boost and some temporary stealth than a major speedboost, free health states or both.

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 6,400
  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 5,416

    It's also why if a perk's effect isn't useful for the meta (aka: chases) then it better be pretty damn good at it's job, otherwise it may as well not exist.

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