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Is dying llight a good perk?

SentrySentry Member Posts: 124

I was curious

Comments

  • Sasori_puppetSasori_puppet Member Posts: 1,348

    The perk alone is not good but it is very good with thanatophobia

  • WeckWeck Member Posts: 2,570

    I don't think so.

    It's a win harder perk. Meaning it only really helps when you ate already winning.

    But doesn't do much to help you make a comeback.

  • SentrySentry Member Posts: 124

    Thx

  • immortalls96immortalls96 Member Posts: 2,544

    Sadly no..thana helps it a bit but the obsession buff makes the synergy laughable

  • MringasaMringasa Member Posts: 646

    It's the same with every slowdown Perk other than PGTW. It's good at low -> middle Ranks because you have more time to get the stacks on it. At Red Ranks it loses it's effectiveness because you can't get enough stacks to make a difference quick enough on those last couple gens.

  • FogLurkerFogLurker Member Posts: 99

    I have success using it on Plague at red ranks. Thanatophobia, Ruin (while it lasts/before nerf'd), Dying Light, PGTW. Makes for fun games for me.

  • shadowman0105shadowman0105 Member Posts: 196

    The perk is reliant on both the killer ending chases as fast as possible and the obsession not working on gens as hard.

  • andyollollollandyollolloll Member Posts: 315

    It's only good on plague.

    If you are wanting to try and keep them injuried the obsession gets a 33% BUFF! for healing them and if obsession is dead it's useless.

    You'd think it would have synergy with Thana but the obsession just gotta altruism mad

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 6,427
    edited January 16

    Yes. It's a good alternative to Ruin. It encourages you to eat DS to maximize your stacks. Pair it with Thana/Sloppy for extra slow down. It also works well with Pop.

    The only thing is that it's a mid to late game perk. You should expect a few gens to pop before the effects really start to impact survivors.

    The thing is, the heal buff is a red herring. If the obsession focuses on healing all game they are not doing gens, meaning the only ones doing gens are being slowed down by Dying Light. You actually WANT the obsession to be over altruistic because you do not want them doing gens, as they are the only one not affected. If they fall into this trap, it can be a vacuum where they are constantly running from one hook to the next to save and heal while everyone else is doing gens slower and slower.

    The smarter thing to do as a DL obsession is to just focus on gens. That's really the only chance the group has at survival.

    Let's do DBD math!

    Let's say you have DL and Thana. Four survivors injured because the only one that can heal efficiently is the obsession. The formula for the obsession's healing time is...

    16/((1+0.33)*(1-0.16)) = 14.3s

    So the obsession only heals 1.7s faster than normal, which everyone else will be significantly slower (depending on how many DL stacks you have).

    But if you use Sloppy instead the formula is...

    16/((1+0.33)*(1-0.2)) = 15s

    So the obsession only heals 1s faster than normal, with no need to keep multiple survivors injured. Sloppy by itself almost completely counteracts the altruism buff from being a DL obsession.

    Of course this doesn't take into account any healing buffs the survivor gets, but you can see that the altruism bonus can be countered by 2 different perks pretty well. If you use all three than the DL obsession heals SLOWER than normal, as Sloppy + Thana debuffs will completely overtake the altruism bonus.

    People need to do the math. At face value, a 33% boost looks like a lot but when you do the math with other heal debuffs it quickly becomes a non-issue due to the way debuffs scale faster than buffs.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 5,690

    It's pretty bad.

  • NMCKENMCKE Member, Trusted Posts: 6,790

    Dying Light is not that good in my opinion because at most, you will get 6 hooks before you start sacrificing survivors or hooking the Obsession.

    6 times 3 is equal to 18% penalty for the survivors.

    To give a comparison, 20% increases generators to 100 seconds from 80 seconds, and healing times to 20 seconds from 16 seconds.


    If the developers increased Dying Light to 2%/3%/4% for every hook that's not the Obsession, then it might be good enough to run by itself — currently you need a perk synergy to get great effect from Dying Light. Even then, you would be better off running PGTW since it removes 20 seconds from generators for every hook (assuming you use it everytime). With 6 hooks, you removed 120 seconds for generators — that's a generator and a half worth of progress halted. 😁

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 6,427

    Debuffs scale faster than buffs. Let's take your numbers. 6 stacks of Dying Light (18% debuff) and the guy has a toolbox (20% buff).

    80/(1+0.2)*(1-0.18)) = 81.3s

    So even though the buff is a greater value than the debuff, the debuff actually overtakes the buff and you do the gen slower. This is because of the fact debuffs are multiplicative while buffs are additive.

  • NMCKENMCKE Member, Trusted Posts: 6,790

    Here's a few other things:

    • Only 3 survivors are affected by DL.
    • You must ignore the Obsession (they will be pressured the least).
    • 18% can only be earned by hooking 6 survivors who aren't your Obsession.
    • By the time you hook 6 survivors, the game will likely be over. The 18% will only be useful for long drawn out games.
    • The Obsession can heal survivors in approximately 12 seconds (not a huge problem in my opinion).


    It's not that the perk is bad, Dying Light just isn't a great option for slowing the game down when you have No One Escapes Death and PGTW. The perk doesn't offer as much as the perks I listed above — that's the problem in my opinion.

  • RivynRivyn Member Posts: 942

    Paired with thana. However, you need to have a killer that synergizes will with thana. Plague is number one, because her power denies healing. Thana/DL, so long as you can land a few hooks, is fantastic. Legion is another.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 6,427
    edited January 16

    If the obsession is spending time healing, they are not doing gens. You actually want this, because the best counter to DL is to have the obsession focus solely on gens.

    The percentages add up. At first it won't be much but once you get to 4 stacks the survivors will really feel it. If you have other slow down perks you can increase this effect. If you have Pop, every kick on a gen actually takes off more and more time. When we are talking about a game where literal seconds matter, increasing gen time by just 8 seconds is enough to change the pace of the game.

    If you got 6 stacks, yes the game is basically over, but now you've locked down the win assuming there are still gens left to do. It will be very difficult to finish gens, which means they don't get to the gates. This is the thing killers always seem to overlook. To most killers, a perk like this is only valuable if they can get the 4k with 5 gens left. But if you 4k with 1 gen left isn't that just as good? You stopped them from escaping and killed them all. This is part of the reason I like the changes to Gatekeeper since now you are rewarded more for this type of play. You don't need to care as much about how many gens get done. As long as 5 gens aren't done, you are winning.

    Also NOED is a trashy perk for slowing the game. My SWF groups regularly take out all 5 totems before end game, and in the few games we didn't we managed to find the totem quickly enough that it didn't matter (at most the killer caught 1 person before it was destroyed). It's not at all effective against good survivors. DL slows down the game, which is effective against any level of survivors and gives you more time to pressure them. High rank killers should never rely on NOED honestly.

  • andyollollollandyollolloll Member Posts: 315

    Those maths show the extreme of 4 survivors all being injured with many perk slots being used eg Thana, DL, sloppy and pop. The likelihood will be not to bother unless 2 or more were injured but being likely to bump into the obsession. Also excluded in the maths were other survivors healing and in groups. I'll not mention SWF using Comms as I'm sure the Devs know this is a huge imbalance to the game and whilst not killing it or Ruining it... SWF will stay but needs to be addressed, how much longer guys?

  • NMCKENMCKE Member, Trusted Posts: 6,790

    The Obsession is saving time by healing other survivors in my opinion, that's 4 seconds they are saving compared to the other survivors who, without the help of items or perks, will take longer than the typical healing time. I'm not saying all DL Obsessions should do a survivor hunt for heals, but if they are causally doing a generator and an injured survivor comes along. They saved time equal to the difference in healing speeds between the Obsession and the other survivors, which, to simplify things, can be around 4 to 8 seconds saved every heal.

    If the Obsession is doing generators, like you said, there's not much you can do about that because hooking them won't net you anything from Dying Light.


    Like I said, Dying Light isn't bad, but when you see the other perks you can use to slow the game down, that's when you see why Dying Light isn't used as much. 😊

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 6,427
    edited January 16

    The first formula is Thana with 4 stacks only. The second is Sloppy only. That's 2 perks for either formula.

    I use Dying Light, Thana, and Sloppy on my main Spirit build. Even against SWF on comms, where they group up to heal, it is DEVASTATING. Like utterly destroys their ability to rush objectives. The fact they have to group up to heal just means less time on gens and a greater chance I can get multiple stacks of Thana if I catch them healing. Plus the moment I hit someone again, I reset all that time they put into healing. I don't think anyones ever escaped this build, maybe someone got hatch here and there, but these 3 perks in combination is really really oppressive. More oppressive than having 3 Ruins and NOED.

    But what happens is the obsession starts to only heal/save other survivors. That means they are not doing gens. They get sucked into this vortex of running from hook to hook spending all their time healing while the others suffer an increasing debuff for each hook.

    Like I get that when you see "3% per stack" it seems like nothing, and it is for a single stack, but the percentages add up and eventually start to really impact survivor progress.

    You have to look at the game as a whole and not at individual actions the survivors do. If you look at it like individual actions it seems weak and may feel weak. But if you look at it over the course of the entire game, all those little bits of time add up and you end up realizing "hey they lost like a full minute of time due to all this, and now I have 1 dead, 3 on death hook, and 2 injured with 2 gens left where none of the gens left have progress over 25%". That's an easy win. Survivors aren't getting to the gates there.

    DL isn't used much because killers have the mind set that "if they do a single gen with this perk it sucks". If more killers instead thought "they didn't finish 5 gens with this perk" it would be used WAY more. The lack of understanding of the math also contributes. DL makes a difference, but most killers don't immediately see it, therefore very few actually use it.

  • MarcusMarcus Member Posts: 1,773

    Dying Light is kinda trash. Not worth running in my opinion.

  • andyollollollandyollolloll Member Posts: 315

    So I just ran Thana, pop, DL and sloppy.

    Gens popped left right and centre, done in extra quick time against wraith.

    As usual it was a 4 man SWF (def on comms)... Shall I just git good?😄😄😄

  • NMCKENMCKE Member, Trusted Posts: 6,790

    I don't think the Obsession will do a survivor hunt for heals if they are affected by Dying Light.

    Generators are a priority and most survivors don't heal anyways due to the "Injured Meta".


    Don't get me wrong, as the DL Obsession, I will heal a survivor if they happen to find me on a generator. However, I don't think any DL Obsession survivor will throw the game by purposely going for heals and unhooks. I tend to run Kindred to help me know when I have the right-of-way for the unhook, and even if you don't run Kindred, using context clue will help you know when it's appropriate for you to start making saves and heals.


    Imagine this scenario:

    You find a survivor and down them. Let's pick a mediocre situation for the killer since not all survivors are super efficient, so a generator was completed on first hook.

    There's likely progress on the next generator...

    Since there's a 3% penalty in effect by Dying Light, Dying Light is approximately adding 2 seconds to the generator that's being worked on.

    Okay, by some miracle, you stopped the survivor just in time before they completed the second generator — Dying Light made that difference.

    You kick the generator and chase the next survivor by following their scratch marks. During chase, that generator is completed.


    You didn't get any value from that perk at all because you wasted time kicking a generator that you minus well say is completed while the survivor that you chased next got a lot of distance on you. Besides, since generators can done extremely fast, I heavily doubt 2 seconds will make a difference in the majority of your games.

    Now, if you was use PGTW, 20 seconds will pack a huge punch. There have been many games where I'm repairing a generator then the killer comes along and uses PGTW on it. Now, I'm trying to complete a generator the killer knows to keep using PGTW on if they can manage to get another hook.

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