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People Really Think This Game Is Survivor Sided?



  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 4,675

    Ah, looks like we have to agree to disagree here once more. I hated old DS with such a passion. It's true, you could juggle the obsession to the hook. But that wasted time, only worked if you downed a survivor near a hook, and if there wasn't some other survivor bodyblocking for them. Otherwise, you would just have to slug the Obsession and never hook them.

    And then there were the non obsession DS. Obviously you could avoid these DS if you got fast enough to a hook, but that wasn't in your control, and once again survivors body blocking almost guaranteed that they'd get their DS skill check. Again, a lot of time wasted for nothing.

    Now, you have counterplay. If a survivor has been unhooked recently, you just have to slug them. Either you wait long enough and then get them back on a hook, or they get picked up again and you down them later. Either way, after those 60 seconds you can reliably hook the survivors that run DS again. I find DS now to be so much more manageable and don't actually think it needs any nerf. Sure, there are rare situations where it does hurt my momentum that I can't just pick a survivor back up after downing them. But besides that I feel like that perk has become so much fairer for killer.

  • Hex_KillerMainBTWHex_KillerMainBTW Member Posts: 447

    One out of how many killers out there? Thing is, there are veteran players then there are the newer players. Newer players might end up hitting red ranks on either side, but that doesn't mean that they're going to do amazing. Problem I have is the fact devs are looking at red rank perks when I honestly don't think a lot of people in red ranks should be in red ranks

  • DepressedClownMainDepressedClownMain Member Posts: 924

    This game is survivor sided dev wise, since our competent management has already made their intentions of making the game "fun" for survivors clear many times. Otherwise, I agree with you, most killers now are more than capable of taking a swf with good players, except those 6 ######### ones

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 4,675

    Wait was there really a nerf to fast vault after march 2018? Like was the time to fast vault increased? Cause that would be something I didn't know about at all.

    But that does remind me of the small vaulting nerfs, where the devs made achieving fast vaults a bit more difficult to balance out at least a few loops a bit. Which definitely was good as well.

  • PapiQuentin_PapiQuentin_ Member Posts: 889


    In GF's patch 3.0.0 they made it so the chance to fast vault is immediately cancelled if a survivor makes contact with the wall. This got rid of several times where a survivor can use their skill and timing to properly bait a killer as to if they're vaulting or not.

    This was best used at T walls and Shack.

    Once again them removing skilled gameplay for a more noob friendly environment

  • BingbongbongBingbongbong Member Posts: 202

    I'm just going to put my two cents in here, When talking about Solo then the killers have the upper hand but then you have to recognize the huge advantages a SWF Squad has, The Best Survivors in a SWF will almost always beat the Best Killer simply because of the communication advantage.

    The game was never intended to have voice coms and was built with that in mind. SWF essentially brakes the game and gives survivors enough information to know what's going on on the map at all times.

    Yes the Stats say other things but there's also a whole lot of variables in those Stats to the point where they're almost useless to draw any conclusions from. Hopefully the devs release more in depth and accurate stats in the future.

    I will say another huge problem and in my eyes the biggest problem is Matchmaking, The Matchmaking and rank system isn't that well done. If people were matched constantly with people of the same skill level I guarantee the game would be in a much better place but as you have it now someone with 1000 hours can go against someone with 50 and it's considered fair because they've played long enough to reach red ranks. I really think hours played and devotion should be considered in matchmaking.

  • Did you read your own first post?

    “most killers are weak and most maps are survivor sided”

    Thats the core issue right there. You just admitted that unless you’re playing one of the top tier killers and get a good map, you’re at a heavy disadvantage.

    At high level play in this game, matches are dictated by survivors. You’re at their mercy. If they make mistakes you have a chance. If they play optimal, you’re toast.

    This is only going to get worse and worse with Ruin gone because theres simply no way for most of the killers to apply pressure across the giant maps this game has.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 10,074
    edited January 2020

    The 4 second healing time increase was something, but we also had multiple anti-heal perks nerfed slightly at the same time and the medkit buff I mentioned. I would also argue the Marth death squads in the game don't even heal in the first place because of how fast they can do gens and how safe the loops are. They have more than enough to get the 5 gens done, so against the good groups this isn't coming into play as much.

    Some of these changes you're referring to I believe were further back than a year. We were just going to when Marths challenges took place. I could be mistaken though.

    For pallets I'm referring to when the survivors had to do an entire swing over animation that was quite slow and then it was buffed to be much faster. This change I believe was after Marths videos. The initial teleporting from one side to the other I believe was much, much longer ago.

    DS is "more" manageable than before but to me that isn't saying much. Yeah it's less broken, but it's still broken and single handedly dictates the matches even when all the survivors aren't running it just because of the possibility.

    I guess I disagree on a lot of the newer maps that you think are more balanced now.

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 4,675

    I mean, if that means you can run up against a wall, and then head towards the window vault while running against the wall getting a fast vault, then I think that was a good change. At least at the moment. If most maps are reworked to have only fair window loops and lots of mindgameable pallets, then I believe they could revert that change again.

    I don't think that removed too much skill though. It probably was just a tiny part of what makes survivor skillful.

  • PapiQuentin_PapiQuentin_ Member Posts: 889

    No no no you're confused.

    Survivors used to be able to fast vault even when they were touching the actual window.

    Now if the survivor touches the window before pressing R1 to vault it will always force a medium vault now.

    This change eliminated skill when it came to a survivor guessing if the killer moon walked at a T wall or baited the Shack vault. The survivor used to be able to react to the killer then this change happened and it pretty much almost always gets the killer a hit.

  • LirulinielLiruliniel Member Posts: 3,007

    I see your actions haven't changed. Still get mad and anger people who have different opinions then you. Despite the overwhelming amount of people saying your wrong you still refuse to accept it in the realm of possibility.

  • Dr_doom_j2Dr_doom_j2 Member Posts: 869

    That is definitely not true in PS4, where the only high ranks still playing seem to have at least a 3 man and the world's most competent solo q (which we must remember not ALL solo ques are potatoes)

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 4,675

    Ah ok. That seems more reasonable. Though did that really take away skill? Like all I feel like this changes is that survivors have to guess before they come in contact with the vault. Turning it more into a fair 50/50 mindgame, at least T-L walls. If anything that sounds like now it takes more skill.

  • Dr_doom_j2Dr_doom_j2 Member Posts: 869

    Some of those nerfs are being looked at in a vacuum. Pallet density was reduced, then brought back up later (which is fair because their were far too few pallets at that point)

    healing nerfs were impactful for SC, but that perk was absolutely OP as much as survivors hated to admit it. I think it wasn't nerfed the right way because it was a perk that helped solo ques balance out with Optimal SWF, but it definitely needed looked at

    Same goes for DS, it literally only punished the killer for doing their objective and they couldn't claim this game is healthy without having nerfed it to it's STILL arguably too powerful state. Also, just remember how long this perk is active and think about all the killer perks in this game. Corrupt intervention is literally the only perk killers have that deny a survivor objective for as long as DS denies the killer objective, and that doesn't include the chase after DS hits.

    In general look at how survivor perks are nerfed to be still very useful in most situations, while killers are given situational perks that must be built upon to make them powerful... And then they may still get nerfed/reworked to remove synergy. But if you have SC and BK, you basically self heal at the same speed as before (not meta, I know, but can make a hell of a difference when playing in solo ques).

  • Apple2oApple2o Member Posts: 624

    You don't even know who has it these days. In the old times, you would always know the obsession at least had it. Juggling to a hook took an extra, what, 10-15 seconds? As opposed to 60 seconds of time wasted like now?

    And enduring literally countered it. There is no counter currently other than waiting the 60 seconds.

  • WaffleyumboyWaffleyumboy Member Posts: 7,318
  • WaffleyumboyWaffleyumboy Member Posts: 7,318

    You could also say the stats are heavily deflated by killers afking, giving hatch, or just making silly mistakes.

  • WaffleyumboyWaffleyumboy Member Posts: 7,318

    Maps and killers are outside of the survivors' influence. It's an rng fest where killer has a less likely chance of lucking out, but if they play a high mobility killer then they almost always luck out.

  • SupaSlay3r20SupaSlay3r20 Member Posts: 139

    You don't make a claim and ask people to provide evidence to disprove you. When you make a claim you're supposed to provide evidence that supports the claim that you have made. You have provided no evidence, therefore your point is invalid.

  • WaffleyumboyWaffleyumboy Member Posts: 7,318

    Okay I'll accept a 75% win rate with less than 75% of the maps played on being survivor sided.

  • LirulinielLiruliniel Member Posts: 3,007

    Same is true for survivors

    You mean of players of equal skill playing against one another and the killer losing like is normal? How do you think 3 to 5 gen chases happen?

    Very few killers can force out a win. Killers rely on Survivors make mistakes in loop to outplay them.

  • WaffleyumboyWaffleyumboy Member Posts: 7,318

    I win some lose some as killer. Then again I get matched with purples more often than reds.

  • WaffleyumboyWaffleyumboy Member Posts: 7,318

    I didn't mean optimal swf versus non-optimal killers but thanks for trying to help.

  • WaffleyumboyWaffleyumboy Member Posts: 7,318

    They didn't fudge their previous stats that showed the game was broken. Nice try my guy. This is raw data, as flawed as it may be you have to at least shake a stick at it.

  • immortalls96immortalls96 Member Posts: 4,652

    Not really as those nearly never happen..meanwhile the ones I stated happen in the vast majority of games as proven by pretty much every DVD stream and video never made

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 10,074
    edited January 2020

    What makes those killers "non-optimal" to you?

    You're gonna argue the game is killer sided against bad survivors? No one disagrees with that.

    What people are talking about is at red ranks where they are much more optimal and the sweaty full SWF groups are quite common.

    Balance is comparing strength with the best against the best, not looking at the balance of bad players against bad players.

  • WaffleyumboyWaffleyumboy Member Posts: 7,318

    Almost all killers make silly mistakes, I myself as killer can't help but make a mistake each trial. Be it forgetting to look for bbq auras, or not following scratch marks correctly, or pathing a chase wrong. Playing perfectly takes mastery.

  • WaffleyumboyWaffleyumboy Member Posts: 7,318

    Yes but where are the optimal killers? E.g. a killer that always knows which pallets are safe, where dead zones are, what all the survivors are currently doing. I want to see them getting crushed by an optimal swf no matter how well they play. Both sides need play to as near to perfection as possible, I might even have to discredit an entire trial if the killer misses the hit a single time or fails to get the hit at an unsafe loop or takes the blatantly wrong path. People only say optimal swf beats optimal killer because optimal killer is much rarer due to how hard it is to pull off. Of course an optimal swf will beat some casuals or someone who makes a silly mistake. I would like you to prove me wrong, to help me realize optimal swf has over 75% winrate over optimal killer. That's being generous. You probably need only link 40 games straight as optimal killer, to make it easy for you. They must be back to back games and not cut together. Good luck!

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 10,074
    edited January 2020

    These games can be seen quite regularly on twitch with many of the popular streamers for killer.

    "People only say optimal swf beats optimal killer because optimal killer is much rarer due to how hard it is to pull off."

    It looks like this to you because for most killers they have to capitalize off survivor mistakes. If the survivors aren't making mistakes then they "look" bad. Very few killers on the roster can make plays happen without it being from a survivor mistake. This is skewing your perception of an "optimal killer".

  • WaffleyumboyWaffleyumboy Member Posts: 7,318

    Yes I'm sure people play killer perfectly regularly. I'll check it out thanks again for helping.

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