A killer can't get kills or a win if survivors don't do mistakes. Case closed.
Look into Marth88's depip squad experiment. 4 perkless SWF survivors depipped almost 70 killers in a row, and over 90 of the hundred games they played, at high ranks exclusively. IIRC, the first killer that actually pipped against them was a god-tier Huntress player with top-tier add-ons, and that was killer 60-something.
Oh yeah pipping system bad. I guess the game is survivor sided in that aspect. Thanks
You miss the point entirely but ok
Ok would you like to explain your point to me?
Player error isn't what I refer to as that's normal in any game..however..certain aspects outside the game are so common compared to other games it results in some very flawed data..with the sheer number of number boosting factors..the real stats would be mortifying
The stats couldn't be inflated by more than 10%. Even that assumes 1/6 games go from a 4e to a 4k because of survivor's choices. And this isn't possible since dcs aren't included and probably over 50% of these scenarios are caused by dcs. So you would have to assume over 33% of games are completely forfeited by survivors and that is the lowest possible estimate. It doesn't add up to me, how does it for you?
They depipped those killers... by the old standard, which was kills = pips. As in, a 1-kill match for 85%+ of those killers that barely lasted for two chases. They were playing optimally like the situation I mentioned in the Hex: Ruin thread.
If survivors play optimally (genrush separate gens the instant the trial begins, with 1 person wasting the killer's time in a chase), the game is 100% survivor-sided. Killers only have a chance in a match if the survivors hand it to them on a silver platter, by playing suboptimally.
I'm of the opinion that the game should be balanced around optimal playstyles/how the best players play, since the limit of what they can do essentially represents what everyone else can or can't do, at their peak. As the most optimal killers against the most optimal survivors results in a near-guaranteed victory for said survivors, I would call the game survivor-sided. Win/loss rates nonwithstanding, balance is when the potential of both sides balance out to give each side a chance at victory. When the potential of one side so thoroughly invalidates any effort/skill of the other, anyone would be hard-pressed to call it a 'balanced' or 'fair' situation.
You can't tell if a killer is playing optimally from the survivors' screens.
Because dcs, hook suicides, a poor ranking system..all feed off each other..1 DC or hook suicide can trash the entire match alone..therefore one bad number becomes four..noed and ruin boosted the stats also because they can single handedly turn games as they are the only 2 viable hexes..all 4 escaping or 1 dying can turn to a 3k with over altruism..now the inflation starts getting massive...combo that with how often I win as a solo survivor and it all starts to come together..in two years that's my conclusion..now ruin alone will be removed from the inflation..we will see just how bad it gets with that by itself
That's still not enough for over 33%. I can't wait for the reaction when killers still come out on top after Ruin changes.
Killers were never on top..and it could very well count for that..you have no evidence to support otherwise..that's my point..people have run the numbers..the path to objective completion is way shorter for survivors than for killers..and killers do not have the capabilities to do what needs to be done with the exception of atm 3...1 of which can still be run around effortlessly
The depip squad consisted of killer mains, who were constantly evaluating the killer throughout the matches. They knew which ones were/weren't playing optimally, from their own experience. Watch a couple of matches of the depip squad if you want to see this. Their commentary throughout the match was fairly interesting to hear.
If your argument to those defending their stance is "link already" then understand you too must provide equal evidence of your own.
You do realize that many survivors are just boosted and red ranks dont mean skilled? The ranking system is flawed badly, this is the reason why people do not like to play solo.
Yes I realize this. What do you mean to relate this fact to?
Killers coming out on top ofc.
The balance discussion is so difficult because ranking is flawed. People are ranked higher than they belong and so on.
It's like the devs are TRYING to stop their game from being balanced.
No i just think it is quite shortsighted, i think it is a big problem that ranking is flawed. Do you know another game where everybody thinks they are at the top of skill because lots of people are in red ranks?
The developers themselves said the data was flawed and to not draw conclusions from it. Maybe check to make sure you're right before you pretend like you have any intelligent information on the topic.
Of course the data isn't perfect.
I forgot to reply to you for some reason, but here's a video that shows how unbalanced a map like Bloodlodge was two months before they made the experiment. Obviously that map is still unbalanced, but this is just another level of BS.
I also checked and pallet vacuum was still a thing during those experiments, which was definitely terrible for killers.
I wouldn't argue it's worse now than it was then, but simply that it isn't significantly enough different to where the depip squad videos are irrelevant yet. That's all I'm saying.
They wouldn't have any trouble redoing the exact same thing in other words.
Simple, you dont chase that survivor. You put pressure on gens.
By doing that you allow the survivor you chased to do gens, and if there is 3 more survivor like that, or even just one, then the gens are flying...