Survivors need a nerf to DS in order to help them grow and get better as players. It is a crutch perk and the game will be healthier when it is changed.
I read similar responses from survivors to killers about the Ruin changes, only seems right for survivors to experience the same thing. Stop relying on a perk, learn to get better without it!
DS should deactivate if the user is fully healed, or if the killer hooks someone else. If the killer comes back to the hook and you just finished healing, it’s your fault if you get downed again. You should have moved away.
The fact of the matter is that survivors hold their DS for endgame in order to deny the Killer a kill. They don’t bring it in as an anti-tunnel perk. And don’t say the killer shouldn’t tunnel or camp during endgame when there is one or no gens left. They literally have no options left at that point.
Let's not change it. Its amusing to see killers proceed to tunnel and camp everyone because one has DS, and fails completely.
The general counter-argument to this perk is ''just slug'' the survivors. Yet, this isn't a viable counter to the DS because the killer still loses out regardless of what he does:
-If I was to slug a survivor for 60 seconds, then this gives the other 3 the opportunity to complete generators (reminder: 80 seconds to complete a generator by yourself, that's practically 3 generators done because of this perk)
-If I was to leave them on the floor and go for other survivors, then they will simply be picked up by a teammate. If the survivors play optimally, I'll be in a chase with another for minutes on end whilst the slugged survivor goes back on a generator.
-Unbreakable, which is commonly ruin alongside DS completely negates this strategy and makes the killer lose even harder.
''Why would you slug for 60 seconds?'' - because I have no idea how long they have left on the timer, if I just recently hooked someone else and downed the person with DS. Sure, I'll probably estimate that the time is far lower than 60 seconds, but I'll be leaving them on the ground for longer than necessary usually to ensure I do not get stunned.
Counter-play implies the killer has the opportunity to deactivate the advantage the survivor has (I.E the immunity) when he actually doesn't here. No matter what he does, the survivor benefits even if they act stupid.
I have a better idea. How about getting rid of BBQ and Chili?
I have to disagree with 1 because the killer can just down the survivor with DS and come back later or camp until DS is gone
Yes it is fair. This game is far too momentum based for the neutering of perks like decisive strike and NOED. Though I agree with 3 and 2.
Totally deserve it. Sometimes I litteraly get DS'ed when I don't even renember when I hooked that guy
They already fixed the perk. It's almost useless now. I can't stand people who say it's still OP. it was OP before, now it's just a perk. I have not been hit by it 1 time since it got fixed, nor have i had a chance to use it 1 time as survivor. The only way that a killer can be hit is if they choose to be hit, or they forgot who they hooked. And the survivor has to force the killer to grab them for it to do anything.
> deactivation when somebody else got hooked
I had a case of 4 people being slugged and all of them running DS. Don't know, what they thought about, but waiting out DS on all 4 survivors was a weird decision. Might as well let them all bleed out. I don't know why people think that it's fine to unhook people at killers face and have a sure knowledge that you're safe after that. But that's not a big deal actually, and it's completely livable, that's a second thing what's important.
> DS deactivates after getting healed and doing objectives
If survivor is such a potato he gets downed within DS active time with two health states, it's a fair second hook, or he uses DS offensively. Seriously. Instadawns? Why the hell did you heal against an insta downer then if you run DS? Completely ignoring presence of the killer while doing an objective is the same. DS does it's thing.
> lower stun when grabbed (from the locker)
I would say it should be removed. Being grabbed always was an ultimate punishment for being oblivious to your surroundings. Now it feels like the only way to grab somebody from anything is when survivor is baiting you to be DSed. You think a killer gonna stab you instead of grabbing from a gen? Just jump into a locker that was conveniently placed right next to it. To get a middle ground I think killer should drop survivors on the ground after a grab instead of placing them on a shoulder.
In conclusion to all I wrote, my opinion that while DS is a needed perk, it's current state promotes stupidity among survivors, and not being smart. Locker jumping literally screams "I rely on the perk to be saved". There is literally none, zero ways to use this perk "smart". Only arguably decent and fair use I could agree with is getting a hit to save the guy that unhooked you. Every single other way to "make perk work" is stupid behavior except when DS is in place.
P. S.: I see, why it's current state can be thought out as "acceptable" from Devs point of you, because what's more important is "fun", and most "fun" you can get from playing survivor is when you goof around. This perk allows you to take it easy and not be punished for that. But every time when survivor is allowed to take it easy it's twice as hard on the killer.
I had a match a few days ago where I took off Ruin as Trapper, got a huge map, got gen rushed, and still played nice. Hooked a David as the gens got done, didn’t camp him even though I’d only got five hooks all game. Chased someone else, David gets rescued. He has Adrenaline. I hooked the other person I was chasing, before I can turn around to go towards the exit gate, David is there. I hit him, he unhooks, I hit him again. I go to pick him up, he dstrikes me and runs off to a now open exit gate as I was playing a four stack.
How does that make any sense? He wasn’t camped, he wasn’t tunneled. He rushed back and made a bad unhook because he knew he had a get out of jail free card. Idk how people can play survivor this way. The game is ez enough as survivor. Ever since then if I get hit with DS that person gets camped and tunneled out of the match. It’s extremely rare I get hit with DS because of tunneling. It’s always survivors using it to be toxic.
As for when it will get changed, uh, never? BHVR is all about stroking the egos and feelings of SWF and baby survivors now.
It's not 60 seconds of invincibility. If i have chased down and hooked some other survivor in even 40 seconds after they got unhooked, then find them and chase them, they will only have 5 to 10 seconds left, and if they jump into a locker right at the end of that time, count to 5 and get them out. It's not as good of a perk as everyone says. It's super situational, and i haven't been hit by it once since it got changed. There is not a single OP perk in the game, and DS is certainly not the strongest survivor perk.
Are you saying we should nerf a heavily used survivor perk? What sort of madness is this. Just for that I’m going to tea bag you at the exit gate and let you down me so I can stun you with DS. GG EZ
I agree that it is an anti-momentum perk.
Because a scenario which 2 peoples are hooked right after the first one, is not uncommon.
Apparently some think that if it deactivates after someone else is hooked is dumb.
So make it deactivate if you RUN (fast action) into a locker.
If 2 peoples are downed (not hooked), it could also deactivate, because clearly you're not being tunneled if two go down.
The suggestion above with the aggressive actions grab is also good.
Last month I proposed this in a topic:
"After being unhooked or unhooking yourself, if you are not the last survivor left and no one else gets into the dying state for 40/50/60 seconds, Decisive Strike becomes active if you get into the dying state."
After reading this topic I would propose this (also, would correct the pontuation of my previous sugestion, that I have now realized it wasn't correct and the order it gets written so it's less prone to error):
"After being unhooked or unhooking yourself, for 40/50/60 seconds, if you are not the last survivor left and no one else gets hooked, Decisive Strike becomes active if you get into the dying state. Decisive strike deactivates if you get healed from the dying state or if you become the last survivor. Decisive strike will not activate if you start performing another action or get fully healed."
The phrase in english might not be clear so I will explain what I mean:
Decisive strike would be able to trigger 2 times per match (1 time per unhook).
There would be no time limit for decisive strike, if you get into the dying state, you would be able to to use it if the killer picks you up.
There would be no free escapes at the end as long as you are the last survivor. This could also be changed (Instead of last survivor) to "If the exit gates or the hatch is oppened).
This would force the killer to actually hook the rescuer before hiting the unhooked survivor. BT would probably become pointless so having a time limit to DS after activating might not be that bad.
If a survivor performs an action like healing someone, do gens, open chests, cleanse a totem, unhook someone, etc... it will not activate thus making it only an anti-tunneling perk. The unhook someone is for those cases where there might be 2 survivors hooked and the unhook should be left for the original rescuer. Because if the rescuer does an unsafe hook rescue he will probably be downed while doing it or immediatly after so he would better have BT otherwise the first unhooked person might suffer for it. Instead of that, maybe something like, DS only activates if the unhook is done outside of the killer terror radius or if the killer is at a distance greater than a certain value making so that BT would work to prevent camping and DS to prevent tunneling only.
An insidious killer camping would have to be aware of BT and DS. A camper would have to deal with BT, since it's hard to know (programming wise) if a killer is camping or if the unhook was just unsafe and DS would be punished by unsafe hook rescues. A tunneler would be punished by DS.
The point is, DS should only prevent tunneling and Borrowed time prevent camping.
EDIT: An insidious camper would actually only have to deal with DS.
1, hell no, that would never work since the killer could just down you, down someone else nearby, hook them quickly, and ur DS goes, even though you were tunnelled.
2, I'd agree, except for stunning the killer, since that doesn't exactly make it an anti-tunnelling perk... If you're still getting tunnelled and you get one stun before going down. So unhooking, repairing would work, but not stunning.
3, I think it should deactivate if you enter a locker to be honest, in fact 3 and two should merge so it deactivates if you sit on gens, repair a gen, or unhook a survivor.
Honestly you've made it more complicated than it needs to be. If I were to change Ds I'd make the timer 30 seconds maybe a little longer. If you are chased or downed in those 30 seconds the timer pauses and Ds will not deactivate. If neither of those things happen in those 30 seconds it deactivates. That should lead to only tunneling killers getting hit with it. Or at least mostly only tunneling killers.
I’m sorry, but “fixed”? The perk isn’t even broken.
After ebony change
I play killer and i go against 4 DS and i dont get hit by it, Why?
For me DS change was one of the best changes devs did, It went from unfair perk to killers to be a perk that helps the game fun.
Killer mains dont understand how the Tunnel can damge the game, Tunnling i can say is the worst thing can happen in dbd, So any nerf for DS means Tunneling would increase means the game are less and less fun.
Small price for a greater good.
OK, let's all agree on this nerf:
Keep the perk the same, BUT...
While DS is active and you are actively repairing a generator, the timer will decrease at ×2 speed.
I.E., If you have 40 seconds left on DS, if you start repairing, DS will expire in 20 seconds.
@Jacksansyboy That’s exactly what I said. You would know this if you understand how the perk works.
They have unlimited slug capability but apparently 60 seconds is an eternity. Lol
Here is my idea:
DS activation mechanic stays the same
This is mainly to address slugging which is unavoidable:
DS Timer is PAUSED while in chase or down
Timer extended to 60/70/80 seconds
This will prevent slugging the timer out
Also, missing DS SHOULD NOT DEACTIVATE IT PERMANENTLY
Hopping into a locker disables it
I love it. But I think the perk should still have a deactivation mechanic.
Such as, jumping in a locker or working on a generator drops the perk timer to 0. Put it still can be used again.
I’m a survivor who uses DS a lot and think that these changes are necessary.
You could be being sarcastic with your ideas, I think they’re good.
Decisive was already nerfed just fine. I haven't been hit by a Decisive I wasn't intending to be hit by since it was nerfed. Just slug them and come back later or ignore them if they hop in a locker. Or just eat it and get it out of the way.
The perk has plenty of ways to work around it, most notably by not racing back to the hook when someone is unhooked.
Its been over used alot, but I still think its a good example...
People dont like situations like this one. I'm completely ok with the perk acting as a true anti-tunnel. I'm not ok with survivors like this one being protected by it when he had enough time to heal up and follow the killer around. He's clearly not being tunneled, lets not let the anti-tunnel perk help him.
i think the new perk will spawn 4 hatched that open as long as 7 or less generators haven’t been repaired. Each hatch will give the survivors and aura and the killer will have the oblivious status. And also have his M1 and M2 temporarily deactivated. The eat ovation will end after post game chat
Someone who likes my legit idea!? CRAZY
I wouldnt be against touching a generator disabling it, that’s the only thing I really hear that feels fair and doesn’t trash the perk. Definite no to attempting to heal disabling it...gens should be the only action that does it.
Not in favor of the another survivor getting hooked disabling it idea, but if that were on the table then the timer should be removed. Find someone else to go after and hook or get hit with DS no matter how long it goes. That’s the compromise.