With more stuff to complain about most likely lol the atmosphere with these arguments about nerfs etc is making Dbd a not so nice place to try and relax and have fun. Hopefully things improve soon.
If I'm being honest I also believe I am a little too forgiving. It's a bleeding character trait I have.
I have worked with a dev team and community as a management member for about 2 years so I have a slight understanding of what things *should be and have my theories on what is going on but without side tracking. The main difference between league and this game is a vast majority in player difference. Theres a difference between complaint threads, "hysteria" threads , and actual constructive feedback threads.
Riot has access to a larger pool of constructive feedback from its community as much as they get the increased hysteria posts.
The devs will mostly look at constructive feedback, and take notes, answer, etc.
As for bugs, this is a tough one because it depends on the bug. Some have easier solutions than others. The toughest part in bug patching for DBD is Identifying the bug based on descriptions and hearsay, and making a fix without breaking something else. Some are harder than others. For the Source engine, typically you as a player have access to console, which so happens that it will display any errors within any .lua (as an example) files that you can show a dev, and they will immediately know where to look, so identifying is extremely easy. Source uses coding languages that are not hard to learn, so fixing is typically done within the month, and usually dont extend past 3 depending on the game, or how the game distributes patches.
Also to the off topic. Dont know much about Vietnam. But isnt there something similar to cookies? I know some people who would call wafers cookies. Nothing wrong with that.
Mistakes like that shouldn't happen at all there is no excuse for how they worded it, they knew what they put down and it passed what it needed to before we all got to see it and your telling me in that whole process no one said "this sounds like we are to Survivor Biased with this patch we need to write it again".
They knew what they were putting out and how it sounded and they didn't care because if they did they wouldn't of sent out the designer notes like that.
If you actually listened to the reason why people didn’t like the nurse changes was because they nerfed her basekit by putting a cooldown on top of a cooldown. That’s fun isn’t it???
We all agreed that nurses addons were too strong but the devs outright lied about just changing her addons, that’s why we were upset.
You know it works like spinechill right??
I said that in a reply here.
I am among those that thought the rework should have been directed at the addons alone. Though Nurse isn't unplayable imo
Yes but this doesn't mean the killer is coming your way, only that he is able to see you. This aside and it becomes a regular game of DBD and Object is still a wasted perk slot.
Plenty of constructive criticism from the latest changes. The Devs ignored all of it, they had their mind set on blowing up ruin.
Was there though. You have some. Don't get me wrong, but the Ruin changes isn't exactly unanimously badly received. You would have people who rather enjoyed this change for killer, because it opened up a good number of possibilities, with people not bothering to actively look for the hex
The fact that you included Pig in there just shows how out of touch you are. Any Pig that crawls around on the ground all game to avoid being spotted with OoO is gonna lose badly. Object is also one of huntress' greatest counters. You can see when she's winding up, you can see her when she's around large loops that she isn't fast enough to run, you can see where she's aiming, it negates her tiny terror radius, it counters her very heavily. Everyone who plays huntress knows this. Only a literal rank 20 will just stare at you and let you snipe them.
You misinterpreted what I said.
It's different in application. This is like saying you remain in Tier 1 Myers the whole game to avoid OoO. Or not going after the OoO as nurse, and instead go for someone else.
It's a matter of how you use Pig's crouch. Obviously you're not gonna be crouched all game, but you can most certainly mind game object with the stealth mechanic.
Your misinterpretation is not evidence of me being "out of touch" at all.
If they wanted good statistics without ruin, why would they make the change during an apparent matchmaking logic shift?
Your data is going to get polluted.
When Ruin was nerfed, hysterical killer mains fail to see what the future may hold and completely dismissed logical thought that changes to GENS or MAPS or how survivors INTERACT with gens would be introduced in due time.
You don't nerf something and THEN look into why it was being used so often. You look at the underlying condition and fix the root cause, and then buff/nerf as needed. They made the decision and didn't listen to any feedback on it, even from the test server. They didn't even include the Ruin change in the survey from the test server.
Also, they have had amble time to come out and say that they were looking at the underlying problem. They haven't even acknowledged it's existence. What I saw in their responses to negative feedback was just telling killers they need to play better. A pretty one sided view from the people that are supposed to be providing balance.
You seem to think that the devs are infallible, and do everything with a big picture plan. You seem to think that there is something deeper lying behind this poorly thought out band-aid fix. Frankly, i would like to think that too, but their lack of a proper response to the situation, to alleviate the ongoing toxicity, gives me little faith that that will be the case. If they even acknowledged the issue, that would be a step in the right direction, but instead they have only made things worse with their one-sided responses. They should have been mediating this back and forth toxicity, but instead they chose a side.
I have seen too many games fail because of this lack of understanding and proper communication. I no longer have that kind of blind faith in developers that you have.
When I read that somebody believes a bs statement about gen speeds or maps than I do not know what to say. ruin was used in 45% of all games, thus 55% of all games didn't have ruin.
I am sure that even tho the majority of games have been played without ruin, that was just simply not enough data provided to make any adjustments regarding gens or maps. You know what? This statement was made in an attempt to lessen the backlash which was received about a week after the announcement to ruin was made and it is the very reason why it wasn't included in the announcement itself. Damage control.
Yeah just remove and trash the perk, because maybe in a future not to far away bhvr will have a look at core issues of the game. Oh please, i do understand every person that had enough of this goddamn bias the whole time. DS is bugged? Oh we gotta fix it asap people, do not worry. Well sound is bugged? Yeah we are looking into it. Nurse can not be played on map? Oh yeah well mhm, ok. Myers stalking is broken, you can not stalk people even tho there is no obstacle between you / survivor? Oh yeah right after sound is fixed.
If you do honestly not understand why people are pissed, there is nothing i can probably say to make you understand.
I wrote a thing on bug fixes before.
They're not as simple as everyone makes it out to be. Some bugs are easier to fix than others.
If you had to make a priority list on what bugs you should focus on it would probably look like this (Descending)
-Large Visual bugs / Map bugs
Some of the things you have mentioned are far and few in between. Nurse can't be played on a map? Uh, where? Why? Because she struggles a lot on it? That could be said on any killer. Myers Stalk bug is one that doesn't happen often, so it's hard to find, it's not a common bug. The problem might not even lie with Myers, but portions of the map. Sound bugs and visual bugs are amongst the hardest to resolve, look it up. (This was also why it took them a while to fix the basement hook bug that perma crippled survivors).
Behavior does not have a large development team. Debugging is more of a side thing that maybe one or two people focus on here and there. But the team has a project, they work on it, then immediately jump to the next.
People were pissed because their main crutch was changed. The large portion of the negative feedback was extremely toxic. Yet, you still had people on the killer side that were quite satisfied with the new update. Behavior does listen to it's community, but the community can be pretty demanding
I never said the Devs were perfect. It was one of my main points that they should attempt on improving how they communicate with the playerbase
Pringles or out
It's pretty worthless in that application. They're going to know exactly where you crouched down, and just leave the loop. If you have video tape or straps you might catch them at the next one though.
Correct, Freddy had the highest kill rate of over 70% I believe.
They only balanced the balance landing perk for survivors, what provided an unlimited amount fo speedburst in certain maps. And instaheal was really ridicoulus.
So perks over powers yeah? Okay yeah sure dude, while a survivor can play just fine even when a perk doesn't work we should give higher priority to the perk. I mean [BAD WORD] that [BAD WORD] that a killer can not use his power, have to fix crutches before we like basic stuff of the game.
Why should I care how challenging/easy it is to fix some bug? Why would I care about that? It is their job that the product they sell works, I honestly do not see any reason why me or anybody else should care about it whether it was super easy or super hard to fix. I mean pls explain me why i should care about it.
I also like that you put sound at the bottom of the list, seems like it is at the bottom of the list for bhvr as well. I mean as long as only killer suffer from it, i mean imagine tr gone for all killers... that probably take a few days and it is fixed. Killers? well [BAD WORD]'em that they can not hear footsteps/breathing/moaning whatever.
I said nurse could not be played on "sanctum of wrath" and not struggle so spare me your assumption about killers struggling in general due to god awful designed maps. The entire map basicly was a deadzone, if you do not know what it is, look it up. She was reduced to a 97% killer on that map, check the bugsection nmcke did explain it in full length.
I have to wonder why you do not answer to the part of ruin being used in 45% of games and that the majority of games were played without ruin? I mean it baffles me, they make the announcement (not giving a [BAD WORD] about killers at all, their perspective and everything) a week later they state something about being able to gather data for gen speeds without ruin cause it was used so much. It is strange right? Majority of games is played with ruin, yet we need to remove the perk in order to get good data. Okay what about toolboxes and the other perks messing up the data about gen speeds? How come they do not show up, fyi i dont care whether it is about prove thyself or dying light/thanatophobia??? I mean they do affect gen times too, yet this is not a problem quite odd but ok.
Crutch? Since when is ruin a crutch kiddo? Even with ruin up the gates could be easily powered within 5minutes. So how was it a crutch? Please explain that part to me. I assume the only people calling it a crutch are the ones who are as bad as people with 10hrs in the game unable to hit a great skillcheck. Who exactly on the killer side was positive about this ruin change? Even people who argued for nerfs of specific killers like scottjund told behaviour what a dumb change this was in a very polite and constructive way. The only people i see "on the killerside" posting that it is a good change were people in disguise, suddenly everywhere some godlike killers did pop up ( oh i play doc in red ranks and always 4k like 99,999999% of my games cause all killers totally super op). LuL who believes those people? Who can take this garbage serious when you do not see a single doc in months in red ranks prior to the "rework". People argueing so borderline dumb that only a newbie can not see the bullshit they spill.
Meanwhile for reality we have survivor mains who asked if bhvr is sure about the ruin nerf, making videos to show how dumb it is. Not just talking garbage on the forums about crutches and how op all killers are but actually just playing games and finishing them ~5-6 minutes while not even gen rushing.
The community can be demanding yeah true, maybe it would not be so demanding if they actually treated people equally. Actually care about veterans of the game and not made-up newbie problems and adress the [BAD WORD] that they really keep them from playing the game you know like when you check steam/metacritic, people drop the game not because of op perks but other check it yourself i do not bother to call them out on the bullshit anymore.
Yeah perks over powers sadly. This isnt just for survivor perks though, Killer perks too sometimes will get buggy and get the ye older priority fix. The DS bug is killer specific, which brings me to my next point.
You SHOULD care how challenging bug fixing is. But only enough to know how quick you can expect a patch for it. It will save you the wave of "Why hasn't BHVR patched this bug... but fixed this one?" The world becomes a lot bigger for you once you accept it. And yeah sadly sound is at the bottom of the list because it is difficult, and I think for a game that isn't entirely relied on sound, though being a core mechanic, some people don't even seem to need it at all. There are deaf players that play this game, and they have their way of coping. Though this minority group is most likely all survivor. And sound bugs go both for survivors and killers. Killers aren't the only ones having sound bugs at the moment.
And I really ponder why people say the devs don't give a cahoot about killers. Recent events may look like it,but come on man. If that was true then why don't we have fast vaults from any angle, instant blinds, BNPs that finish a gen within a second, Double Windowed 1 door Killer Shacks, Instant heals, DS with a skill check half size of the circle and no hook required AND no timer, longer killer grab, mori, and hook animations, Hit and Heal MoM, do I need to keep listing? So we're just gonna ignore these ^? And just actively complain that Behaviur only caters to survivors?
As for the Ruin percentages, you wanna ask about the 55%. Sure, let me give you a thesis. Ruin, is seen 45% of all games. This perk is also most common in green ranks all the way down to red. This would leave you with Yellow and Gray ranks. These ranks are fairly known to be the noobie ranks. In almost all of these, ruin is not present. My first encounter with Ruin was at rank 14, for my GF it was at 15 ( to give some examples, not to represent the actual numbers). So we can assume that at least 15 ~ 20% of the games are from killers who do not own Ruin for the killers they play. I'm gonna put aside a 5% here as an independent variable, because I obviously lack a lot of information, I do not have access to BHVR's stats. The remaining percentage are from games across all ranks, including red and below, are games from killers who do own Ruin, but simply not use it. There are also some mid rank killers who do not own Ruin. And these Killers do exist in the red ranks, and they are definitely good players. Yes, sometimes they get destroyed, but this goes hand in hand with survivors as well.
And for the record "kiddo", Ruin is most certainly a crutch perk, just as DS is for Survivors. Neither side needs these perks to win matches. And the Killers who truly needed it the most are the ones who need a rework/buff. Particularly clown.
I share in the opinion that Gen times are definitely busted, and I'm not certain entirely why they cant just look at the data from the games without Ruin and make a conclusion, unless these games were truly mostly in the gray and yellow ranks, in which case you can raise the first number I gave.
As for the "fake Killers in disguise" bit. How do you know that? That's a larger assumption than saying the earth is flat. There are people here who can agree the Ruin change is a more positive change to shake up the game a bit, and give it a slight increase in Variety. I love NOED because it's such a surprise perk that is also a hit or miss, I have fun games going against it, and playing with it. Scott said that this change seemed a bit more so introduced a bit early to what could have potentially been a lot of map fixes and reworks that came along with it.
The newbie problems are certainly not made up. Ruin *still* punishes newer survivors, harder skill check or not. A community does not get less demanding, it's practically impossible, doesn't matter about how BHVR treats people. Would there be less demanding? Maybe, but you really gotta look at some things first. You give to people and they want more. As a community grows, so does the demanding. I'm not sure if it was you, but someone made a comparison to how Riot treats their League players and apparently hears them out pretty well. The demanding of a community that is the league community is the highest a video game company ever had. Why is that? Well they just simply have the most players on it, easy.
Do tell me if some of these points I made make sense, or if you need me to elaborate more. Me personally though, I already see the upcoming nerfs for survivors, as well as reworks to maps like Coldwind, and Mear Packing.
As much as I don't like that that is pretty much Pig's only counter to it truly. The ways to do it still exist. I once proposed that Insidious was changed to temporarily grant the undetectable status after a hook. Idk tho I think people didnt like this?
Have you ever had cookies from subway? they're so good!
Those cookies are amazing. I don't know how they can get them to be a perfect amount of soft
Nah I haven't even been to subway
From what i saw it was the headless chickens running around looking for the totem at all costs that snowballed the game in the killers' favor. With ruin still up and two on hooks with 1 gen done his job was done and from then on it was just a matter of waiting it out for the 4k.
For me, ruin sucked in the lower ranks but as a killer i also know that it could be necessary on some maps/killers who have no mobility. I was a fatherless child, if you know what i mean, and ran both dying light and ruin. Ruin would go in the first 30 seconds in 9/10 games. They valued my ruin so little that it did not get a spot at all and was immediately found. But sometimes i would get lucky and get a few stacks of dying by the time ruin went so i had a fallback to slow down the remaining game. As freddy i hooked and then teleported right away to chase off gens using bbq. If i saw nobody on bbq i would still teleport and kick gens
Another thread to add to the hundred or so like it. Nothing new here. *eyeroll*
Nah I absolutely shoudln't bugfixes in other games do not take several months to be fixed. No matter which game I play it is odd that you defend bhvr with saying it is difficult to do so. Yeah bhvr has the only superspecial difficult to bugfix game, ok seems legit. This just leads to another conclusion, either they are incompetent or do not have the qualified manpower in order to do so.
Why don't we have this stuff? Maybe cause people explained to these devs how broken this garbage was and it took a long amount of time until they did something about it. Back then the game was in their minds perfectly fine and balanced.
BHVR was told that MoM was completely broken, they released it anyway. It was a bait to make easy money, otherwise the ash dlc would not have sold as well as it did. Same with legion, look where legion is now but they were stubborn i guess. These dlcs are good examples to get rid off this whole "oh they do care" and they know what is good.
I don't think ruin was a crutch, agree to disagree to me NOED is a crutch. I don't see anything good that comes from talking about speculations all we do know is 80% red rank usage ( i wonder what red rank means in this since red rank for killrate meant red ranked killers) and 45% across the board.
Because the people spill bs that just isn't true. I haven't seen a doc for months in red ranks games and other people i talk to agreed. Yet somehow out of nowhere the people came that state killer totally op, i play doc ez pz 4k. Sorry any decent players knows that these stories are just made up. They are the ones bringing in the theory about the earth being flat not me, the question is why many people want to believe them.
As I said regarding newbie problems, take a look at steam/metacritic. Check out why people do drop the game and it is because bugs do not get fixed, dlc/paywall, bad optimization and camping/tunneling killers (this is by far the biggest reason). As you have seen what the reaction was to the ruin nerf, experienced survivors are not bugged by it as they can deal with camping/tunneling the one who do suffer from it are the people that are inexperienced and do not have the perks (bt/ds) or the gameplay knowledge how to deal with it and are bad at loooping. Increase in gamepace leads to more tunneling in order to snowball from that... tell me who do you think is the weakest player? New players. It is dumb and counter productive. How many people will stick around after the next free weekend? ...