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Devs you're going to kill this game.

Start off by rolling back ruin changes. It's a good idea, but alot else needs to be changed before that. (Like gen times.)

Killers pretty much needed the old ruin, to not have games be over in two minutes. (And that in itself is a biig issue.) There's not enough map pressure in the world to stop this from happening. A gen is gone before you even have time to cross the map. TO CROSS THE MAP. O.o At least old ruin prevented this, however poorly.

You must realise that something is deeply messed up with your game. When every killer cries whenever they rank up.

Stop buffing survivors and start nerfing swf. This game, playing as a killer, is pointless when the survivors are teamed up and prepared.

Killers can only ever be as good, as the survivors are bad. That's the state of the game right now. If a survivor is being chased. And does not ever make a mistake. They'll never be touched. Sure the killer can bloodlust them to guarantee a hit. But they will waste 2-3 gens worth of time to do so. 2-3 gens for one hit. Balanced.

Killers are not the power role in this game. And I question if they ever were.


  • PredatedPredated Member Posts: 343

    Not a dev, but sure as hell know 1 thing for sure.

    If 1 perk is used in every single build, that perk needs changing or all other perks need changing. The biggest reason for the change in ruin, by my guess would be to give killers more reason to actually keep patrolling, rather than tunneling people and using a perk to control the rest of the game. If 1 perk can control the entire map, its too strong.

    Swf genrushing has already been nerfed a bit, because the more people fix 1 generator, the slower each of them fixes it.

    A good perk to counter gen rushing is discordance. If you need more than discordance to counter an swf or a gen-rush, you should stop tunneling people. Swf is fine as it is, if survivors play perfectly and the killer plays perfectly, the survivors should be escaping. That is the whole schtick of the game in the first place: work together to escape. The less survivors work together, the easier the killer has it.

    Survivors need some balancing here and there, personally, some situations, its practically impossible for a survivor to do anything. Examples: hatch closing with 2 doors too close to actually open them, all survivors being on the hook because one person [BAD WORD] up so much with no chance of getting off, wiggling being basically false hope, the hook on the secondfloor of the thompson house being practically a second basement with only 1 way out, making face camping all the more easier(at least add a place you can jump down from).

    While I also believe bloodlust should be easier to achieve the more generators are fixed, with a slight nerf for early game bloodlust(taking 20-25 seconds for each level of bloodlust instead of 15 seconds), but with 5 generators fixed being a very big buff(taking 5 seconds for each level instead of 15 seconds).

    Changing Ruin was needed, because it was broken and too strong as a single perk. They need to focus on the core gameplay. Stop complaining about ruin, and start looking for other aspects of the game that are obviously lacking in the current meta. Bloodlust is lacking, Killer offerings are lacking, some killers have addons that are practically useless unless in a very specific build, but that specific build isnt good enough to even consider, so making those specific builds more viable also helps.

  • FeleasFeleas Member Posts: 85

    I don't mean to sound rude but you, like the devs, completely ignored WHY 80% of Killers were using Hex: Ruin before it's change. Monto always gave a pretty ____ing good hint; "To slow the game down.... just a little bit."

  • PredatedPredated Member Posts: 343

    No, I didnt ignore it. Besides, the game is about earning pips. I'm aware of how a highly skilled SWF can make a game very frustrating, and there should be a game mechanic for killers that have a much higher skillcap. Cus right now, there isnt much of a skill cap. Just moving around, hitting things, relying on perks. Killers have a very low skill cap, which is why they are extremely easy to master, but why survivors end up winning overall. Its why Nurse and Huntress are considered the only real viable killers on higher ranks. Because they have much higher skillcaps than the other killers. Killer mechanics in general need an increased skillcap. Things that are more choice related, like being able to charge, but the longer you charge, the larger the punishment is.

  • Prex91Prex91 Member Posts: 259

    Devs be fast on reducing size of big maps please!

  • Aven_FallenAven_Fallen Member Posts: 4,363

    Monto also said that new Ruin still does that... When you are not a Potato. Just putting the Perk into the Perk Slot will not be enough in the future.

  • FeleasFeleas Member Posts: 85
    edited January 25

    Lol no [BAD WORD]. It's just ridiculous that we need to take TWO perk slots to make it viable to work with. Was better when we just used one perk slot. Because as you noticed, Monto uses Surveillance almost all the time with the new Hex: Ruin. Two perk slots, just saying.

  • Aven_FallenAven_Fallen Member Posts: 4,363

    You know, when you get people off Gens, new Ruin works... But yeah, I know it is completely unacceptable that a Killer needs to chase Survivors and force them into altruistic Actions.

  • thehotdogman93thehotdogman93 Member Posts: 81

    Let's forget about the fact that most high rank survivors can heal themselves with claudette's self heal perk or have someone else heal them if you don't tunnel someone into a hook at least. But being a killer takes no skill since you have to mind game survivors during a chase unless you're a high tier killer, or the fact that you need to be able to predict what the survivors are doing and know when to stop chasing someone, right?

  • waywaywaywaywayway Member Posts: 6

    That would be fine if half the maps weren't huge. Now Ruin only works on faster killers, making the strong stronger and removing another viable perk for slower killers

  • FeleasFeleas Member Posts: 85

    You just contradicted yourself. Mindgaming IS a skill. Predicting where Survivors will go IS a skill. What do you think skill is for Killers? Hitting M1?

  • Pumpkin_KingPumpkin_King Member Posts: 22

    You know I think the community discussed about this enough already, but gen times are not the problem, no one wants to hold M1 for two minutes. It's either smaller maps or more objectives, but not the gen times. And if they change that , there is really no need for old Ruin anymore.

  • Pumpkin_KingPumpkin_King Member Posts: 22

    Ruin really did not control the whole map. Ruin was really only good for slowing the game down a little bit. Of course newbies weren't too good at dealing with this perk, but it can be easily outplayed if you just learn how to deal with it. The big concern that I just had was that my team wouldn't do anything while I sit at the gen outplaying the Ruin. ; But it really wasn't that strong, most of the time people didn't hit great skill checks because of a delay, it's the same thing with hitboxes.

    And only because a perk is used a lot doesn't mean it needs changing, there was problem killers saw and a perk that solved it most of the times, but instead of changing the solution it would have made more sense to apply an overall solution and change the perk after that.

    The less survivors work together, the easier the killer has it.

    That's not completely true; If survivors work together on a gen , it plays right into Discordance, which makes it way easier for the killer because you can disrupt two survivors at the same time, if everyone would do their own gen they would be way more efficient. It's really not about working together than more playing efficiently. ; Survivors staying together and working together makes the game way easier for the killer. Unless they really know how to outplay the killer, but even then it's not as efficient as it could be and probably gives the killer more time.

    Survivors need some balancing here and there, personally, some situations, its practically impossible for a survivor to do anything. 

    You know the same applies for the killer. There are some loops if run perfectly you can't do anything at all. If they all bring toolboxes with speed addons and gen perks, there is nothing you can do. Except maybe "Franklins" but you know it's not going to help you if they finish the gens before you get them. ; But overall this game has a lot of situations where you just can't do anything. Insta chainsaw Bubba , there is nothing you can do.The same goes for insta chainsaw Billy. Iri Head Huntress , Unlimited insta Kill Myers. Facecamping, ; Same goes for the Killer, strong Loops , DS , Adrenaline , The buttdancing flashlight Squad, Borrowed Time , Insta Heal Med Kit.

  • thehotdogman93thehotdogman93 Member Posts: 81

    You misunderstood my reply. I was bringing those up sarcastically as examples as why being a killer takes skill too, as opposed to the argument that being a killer doesn't take skill. It's not just about hitting m1. Mind games, predicting where the survivors are doing, these are all skills that good killer needs to be successful... plus not being greedy with your m1 and timing it efficiently.

    I'm with you on this one mate ;)

  • FeleasFeleas Member Posts: 85
    edited January 25

    Oh [BAD WORD], my bad neighbour. I thought you were serious haha. It's so hard to tell with just text alone, especially when a lot of the sarcastic sounding posts you see for this game are actually serious.

  • PredatedPredated Member Posts: 343

    Oh, so because you need 2 perks now to have even better control, its bad? So you're saying if you need 2 perks to make something viable its not a good perk? Well, do I have bad news for you, because most survivor perks require a second one to be viable. Lightweight isnt really super good on its own unless you use Quick and Quiet. Spinechill isnt too great if you dont use Sprintburst or Urban Evasion. Ruin on its own had too much overall control. No single perk should allow that much control. I agree that they should look to other perks and buff some of them aswell, because a lot of them were viable only because there were 3 perk slots left next to Ruin. Personally, I feel like Whispers should be directional in a similar way as an injured survivor would be, but with 5/4/3 seconds interval, with maybe something like Iron Will being able to fully silence it and No Mither reducing the sound. Or how Thanatophobia should last even after someone got sacrificed(not bleeding out or Mori'd), because as a survivor, I rather let someone die late game than try to save them because it lowers Thanatophobia's penalty. I know they do that because some people are afk etc, but if you can death hook an afk person(instead of just hitting them once, which also gives a permanent debuff), non-afk people can finish 1-2 generators.

    So TL;DR: Ruin needed a rework, but other perks need a rework or a buff too.

  • PredatedPredated Member Posts: 343

    It was a map control tho. The only real thing a Killer needs to keep track of, is generator progression, the longer a game lasts, the less obstacles a survivor can use to escape a chase. A single perk slowing down generator progression is a map control. And sure, hitting great skill checks over and over again doesnt affect it, but even hitting good skill check slowed down progression. Let alone the killer coming with Pop goes the Weasel and/or Overcharge. You could theoretically stall the game forever, the smaller the map, the easier it was. Yet perks shouldnt get stronger or weaker based on map size, if it does, it's a map control.

    "And only because a perk is used a lot doesn't mean it needs changing"

    Like I said, either the perk needs changing, or all other things need changing. The dev's have been changing a lot already. Closing the hatch, being able to choose to open a gate to speed up the endgame, other perks were being changed to be more viable and overall relative to today's meta. Ruin was the only thing that stuck out like a sore thumb. Taking Ruin basically garantueed you a silver emblem for not doing anything. Not a single other perk can garantuee a silver emblem, they all require you to do something. For survivors: you need to fix generators, you need to escape and survive, you need to heal and unhook fellow players and you need to be able to run away. For killers: you need to make sure to stop generator progression as long as possible(ruin did it for you). you need to sacrifice survivors, you need to hook survivors and you need to chase and hit survivors.

    "That's not completely true; If survivors work together on a gen"

    You misunderstood my "work together" part. I meant survivors working together as a team, not working together on the same generator. In fact, fixing 4 generators seperately at the same time is faster than 4 people fixing 4 generators together. My whole point was about if the survivors cant really cooperate well together, the killer has it easy. I mean, if 3 survivors all think that someone else will unhook the survivor that's on a hook and decide to finish a generator instead, it garantuees the person on the hook to die and gives the killer an easy time. But if 1 survivor distracts the killer while 1 goes to save and the final one works on a generator, then the killer is having a much harder time.

    "There are some loops if run perfectly you can't do anything at all."

    Well, not really. Window blocks are a thing, the only things that dont recieve blocks are pallets and if you decide to keep a pallet unbroken after survivors drop it, you pretty much allow them to loop you perfectly in the first place. And I agree that sometimes its easier to fake a charge(and honestly, I believe canceling a basic attack should be a thing for killers) to have the survivor jump over a pallet and hit them, but 90% of the time, you're wasting your time with mindgames when you can break a pallet within 2 seconds and not spend 1 minute on mindgames instead. And instaheal medkits arent a thing anymore, Adrenaline is honestly not that much of a bad situation considering it wastes a whole perk for 90% of the game, Borrowed Time was needed because, on the hook, you cannot choose when and how you're saved. It's really unfair to a player to have someone basically [BAD WORD] them over directly. It used to be really unfair with both parties gaining protection, but personally, I'd even say that if a survivor is cabable of unhooking himself, he or she should gain a similar protection by default(even though people disagreed with me there, but seriously, its only a 4% chance in the first place and the reward for it is quite [BAD WORD], especially if a killer decides to tunnel you again), flashlights are annoying, but if flashlights affect that much of your own game, there is a perk for that(personally, I never really get bothered by flashlights as a killer. The only situation its impossible to avoid is with a pallet), DS is a one-use only perk, and the only reason people use it a lot is because wiggling is practically useless unless someone actively is taking down hooks. So its either DS or Saboteur and I personally rather have DS as it already requires them to get hooked in the first place, while Saboteur might actually remove the possibility of hooking a person.

    Now ofcourse, I need to adress the killers too, because otherwise people are going to complain that I only find excuses for survivors, which isnt true, because personally, I believe that during the End Game after opening the gate yourself, it should be a lot easier to spot or hear survivors(giving an actual reason to open the gate yourself). Closing the hatch being the only exception for that(because its already a near impossible situation for the survivor when the hatch is being closed). But anyhow: iri head huntress, its not really an impossible situation. The hitbox of the hatchets arent that large and can easily be avoided by a simple side-step, the longer the distance, the easier it is to avoid. Machinegun huntress was worse because you could nearly instantly hit a survivor before they could react. Unlimited instakill Myers requires a LOT of stalking. You almost need to stalk everyone fully(I think its about 3,3 survivors being stalked) before you can even activate it, and if survivors are that oblivious to a Myers stalking them, then they got themselves into that situation. Facecamping is kinda countered by Borrowed Time, and personally, I feel that if a survivor requires the killer to be very close, they deserve a similar amount of survival points as if they were to escape through the gate. Not because they really survived, but because its the only point slot that's free to recieve points. Insta chainsaw Billy requires quite some skill to pull off accurately, because again, the longer the distance, the easier it is to side-step. If a Billy got close enough to decide to chainsaw instead, you could have gotten hit twice in the first place.

    Now, Bubba, I agree with, for different reasons. Personally, I believe Bubba shouldnt be able to insta-down players as a base in the first place. He should hit one stage to multiple people at once, and since his movement speed increases once he releases, he can still down a single survivor if he wishes to. The whole downing multiple survivors was a mistake IMO in the first place. Maybe with an addon, but not a single other killer can down 4 people that quickly even if they are standing side by side.

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