Home Discussions General Discussions
The 4.0.0 is now available on Steam! For patch notes, instruction and more details, click here.

And they're covering up bad match making



  • papaiursopapaiurso Member Posts: 119

    How do you rate a player's skill level in this game?

    Sacrifices? Bloodpoints? Number of hooks?

    Sure's there's a difference between a 4k Nurse and a 4k Trapper. And also you should take add-ons in consideration. I'm a trash Huntress, but I have one bazzillion Iridescent Heads. If I start to usem them to win match after match, will the system understand me as a skillful player?

    How would you identify a skilled survivor (remember, an automatic system relies on numbers and statistics to generate a result)? Escapes? Just hide all match and take hatch with Left Behind. Altruism? Well, that's basically the only way to make good points as survivor since ever.

    I am very curious about how this new system's gonna work.

  • FleshTorpedoFleshTorpedo Member Posts: 394
    edited January 28

    Except skill level and rank are heavily tied together in those games and are shown at some point to the other players you are playing with. R6 also has a restriction on mmr that can group up together, so you dont have your Diamond friends playing with Silvers. What BHVR is doing is putting a brown paper bag on the your ugly cousin and telling you to get to it.

  • The_Bootie_GorgonThe_Bootie_Gorgon Member Posts: 983

    Since it is a hidden ranking system, we will not know how they determine player skill...

  • The_Bootie_GorgonThe_Bootie_Gorgon Member Posts: 983

    It's a hidden skill rating system. They won't be telling us how skill is determined.

  • SylorknagSylorknag Member Posts: 410

    They even said really proudly, as if they were rubbing in our faces.

    "The patch is out and the ranks are still there"


  • SylorknagSylorknag Member Posts: 410

    I believe they won't. And that's the point.

    If we don't get to see other players skill level how dafuq are we supposed to know if the system is actually working?

  • NegiNegi Member Posts: 132
    edited January 28

    Hey guys, remember dedicated servers? I don't know how some people can still have such blind faith when, while good in theory, have had questionable execution.

  • Snow_LepSnow_Lep Member Posts: 225

    Oh wait wait wait. Is this going to be a Rocket League situation where just winning the match counts as a point in your skill to a point where you can still be carried to much higher ranks by your teammates?

    And where the teammates sacrificing themselves for you will in turn HURT their skill points for the match as they didn't escape?

    What about sandbagging? Does that gain or subtract a skill point? Would it be depending on how skillful and clever the sandbag was?

    Oh, and would it also include where a killer can facecamp you and force you down a skill level because you were unable to do ANYTHING that match?

    And for killer, will that also take basement camping killers up in skill because they can get easy multi-kills if people come in for the saves?

    I know you have this planned, and I know these arise as issues in the current ranking system.

    But for survivor side would it detect that you were physically UNABLE to do anything in the round and prevent you from going down in skill level?

    Similarly as a killer would it detect that you stayed within so many meters of the hook and what perks you used to try to base if you truly earned your kills or not?

    Will the skill levels be based in category? Ability to win chases/escape the killer, Objective Ability, Altruistic Ability?

    Survivors who can run the killer for 5 gens will do just that. Would they gain heavily in the Runner category?

    Would matchmaking then pair those who have higher stats in the different categories to form what would be the 'ideal' team?

    I'm not saying a skill based matchmaking system is a bad idea.... But not exactly optimal for a game where you can play scummy and cheap ways to gain skill points as a killer, and are forced to rely on your teammates as a survivor.

  • KuromiStarwindKuromiStarwind Member Posts: 325
    edited January 28

    If you're not going to show the MMR of the players after the match is over, then it is no different than simply hiding ranks. It isn't exactly going to be easy for you to determine skill in this game due to so many factors influencing it, and if we go off how you measure skill based on emblems and pips I can safely say I already have a severe lack of optimism for this.

    Games that have this type of system generally have "leagues" so you can compare your skill relative to others and know what you're up against, or they show you your MMR. Masking everything isn't going to do a lot, and even then it won't change the fact that, factoring in MMR, ping and skill of other people in the match, the game will still create unfair games like it does now - you just won't see it.

    I suppose we'll see how it turns out, though it doesn't really make a difference to me

  • AStupidDavidAStupidDavid Member Posts: 156

    You'll know if you get matched with someone of your equal skill depending on how good you perform isn't it obvious? Like whenever I get matched with a terrible killer I know he isn't as skilled as me if I'm able to pull off five 360s in a row and loop him for 5 minutes straight and I know when I'm going up against terrible survivors when they either go down in 15 seconds after starting a chase or they don't work on gens (or both lmfao).

  • FreshwickFreshwick Member Posts: 32

    Most likely SPM (score per minute) total match time divided by points earned will decide your skill rating.

    I can't be certain but it's the simplest approach ✌

  • TunnelVisionTunnelVision Member Posts: 670

    That's certainly not what i read or interpreted. All i'm seeing here is good news all round. Let's hope it works out!

  • Archimedes5000Archimedes5000 Member Posts: 1,589

    Why are you trying to defend THAT part of new matchmaking? There is no reason for them to hide matchmaking results, unless they have something to hide.

  • asergioamasergioam Member Posts: 358

    They never said they would never remove ranks. I also read the hole thing and they stated that they would not remove the ranks with last week's patch as it was first intended so they didn't lie... the ranks are still shown.

    About your last frase/question... are you seriously asking that?! How will you know? The same way you know it now, by playing and analyzing by yourself ofcourse! If you get payred up with players a lot worst than you or a lot better than you you will notice it. If you get paired up with players with more or less the same skill level than you, you will notice it too... Once they confirm the skill system is working fine, you will have all the legitimacy to ask for nerfs and buffs! In my view, it's a win/win situation!

  • Archimedes5000Archimedes5000 Member Posts: 1,589

    I agree that new matchmaking has great potential and that I think we can trust that devs will define "winning" properly, but if you cant see Skill Rating in the end game screen, then there will be no way to tell if it really works or not.

  • Archimedes5000Archimedes5000 Member Posts: 1,589

    But Skill Rating will also be hidden right?

    That defeats the whole purpose of changing the rank system, there will bo no way to judge if it works ot not, are there bugs or not, did we play good or not...

  • AStupidDavidAStupidDavid Member Posts: 156

    I'm not defending anyone or anything, you asked a question and I gave you an answer simple as that lmfao I don't agree with the whole hiding player ratings thing either, but what I was saying is you can still tell when a player is not at your same level of skill even if ranks are hidden, you can definitely still tell

  • DanteMorelloDanteMorello Member Posts: 142

    Oh man. These 3 percent SWF groups....

    Such a huge problem.

    Just because survivors are put into the lobby simultaneously no longer means it is SWF...

  • Archimedes5000Archimedes5000 Member Posts: 1,589

    Oh, ok

    Its just that seeing the proof is always better than just feeling, and there is no reason to hide the skill ratings

  • johnmwarnerjohnmwarner Member Posts: 2,511

    Oh we read it, but we have no PROOF that our game is against players of comparable skill. We don’t even know what “skillful play,” is... is going gens and hitting great skills skill? Is a long chase dropping pallets considered less skillful than a long chase without using pallets? Is hiding all game and escaping hatch skillful?

    You won’t ever tell us, this will all be hidden so all we have is your word that the system is working.

  • Well_Placed_HexTotemWell_Placed_HexTotem Member Posts: 824

    The other thread from that Scott guy is right. There are too many variables for any sort of skill based system to work. Ranks are also mostly useless, but they're better than nothing.

    I had three killer matches this morning. I got a bad map as Wraith against gen jockeys. I got seven hooks, one kill, three escaped. I feel I played as well as I could without resorting to douchebaggery and the game depipped me. Too many pallets. Too much sprint burst. All three remaining survivors had Adrenaline. Then I was doing an Oni ritual and again got a bad map (his map, bad in both design and it's just too god **** dark). Got two hooks before getting stuck in a pallet and had to quit. Wonder what MMR would say about this game?

    Last match was against a sweaty four stack but they were too altruistic and could have easily gotten all the gens done but were too focused on healing and saves and bodyblocking. Got a 4K with 30k points. Got a pip, but I played much better in my Wraith game where I lost a pip. The variables are just too large, there's too much RNG.

    This just seems like a stupid idea to hide how bad matchmaking is.

  • johnmwarnerjohnmwarner Member Posts: 2,511

    Except there are at least two problems with that . First they can just say, “well yes Meg played poorly on your team but her last 10 games she was very skillful so this must have been a bad game for her it happens.”

    And that leads to the bigger problem, what did Meg do so skillfully the past 10 games? Did she escape and do gens because her team carried her? Did she play against a lot of killers trying to farm blood points or trying weird challenges?

    The problem is everything is hidden, including what is considered skillful in the first place.

  • asergioamasergioam Member Posts: 358

    That’ why I said it is impossible to have a perfect ranking system. We just wanted a better one that could be adjusted after adjusting the matchmaking.

    Ando no, everything is not hidden, in the current ranking system you know exactly what needs to be done to rank up. It will be hidden in the new MMR system but not in the current one.

  • johnmwarnerjohnmwarner Member Posts: 2,511

    But you’re saying once they confirm the skill system works we can ask for buffs/nerfs how will we know the skill system is working fine?

    Let me wan you through a scenario and you tell me your thoughts, I’m open for feedback. you’re going to play a game and notice two of your teammates are potatoes, but the killer is really good and so is one other teammates. So do you think the MMR is working based on this game?

    If you say no, why? It’s possible those potato teammates Are SWF if the good player. It’s possible they are good but are screwing around for some reason like a Rift challenge or maybe they’re a streaming doing something like Puppers playing blindfolded.

    My point is that you can never be sure if it’s working or not, and while like you said currently the emblem system is right there the new skill system will be hidden. So you can never actually prove to the devs if it isn’t working, therefore it never needs “fixed.”

  • NullEXENullEXE Member Posts: 1,632

    @Peanits Pleasssssseee tell meee if there are any plans of adding a "Recent Matches" menu to track how well you are doing. It's so annoying tracking my builds on Google Doc's. Pretty please, because you love me.

  • asergioamasergioam Member Posts: 358

    Sorry, thought I was answering to another thing (it was on another topic about the subject were I stated that I don't think the changes will be good and explained why).

    But answering to this one, never mind the last response since it was based on something else:

    I understand what you're saying here, but you are also basing yourself on one game only. What I meant with my answer was that if they confirm the system is working fine and you find a Meg that performs poorly and all other games you find people that perform more or less like you, than you know for yourself that that Meg probably had a bad match and the system is working. If you constantly find yourself playing with what seems to be alot better or a lot worse players than you, then you know the system doesn't work properly.

    BUT, even if the last one happens, lets say you are constantly being paired up with people that are worse than you making you "lose" almost every match, you have the legitimacy to say that killers are too strong or too weak because the devs stated that the system is working.

    For what I meant by legitimacy it is irrelevant if the system is working fine or not, what is relevant is if the devs consider it fine or not because of what i said in the last paragraph ;).

  • Liam282Liam282 Member Posts: 11
  • johnmwarnerjohnmwarner Member Posts: 2,511

    You’re right about that, you need to look at multiple games but what do you mean by “perform more or less like you?” We go back to the root problem of not knowing what is considered skillful.

    Again a few examples, you lead the killer on a 7 minute chase (extreme) to start the game during which two survivors do all the gens and open a gate. You get hooked any everyone bails on you so you die. Exactly how “skilled,” was everyone? On a scale of 1-10 how do you get ranked? The two people who did gens? The last person who literally crouched all game but escaped? Now keep in mind your rating may not be the same as BHVR and they won’t tell us.

    Now let’s look at a totally even game, everyone does a little more than 1 gen worth of progress, gets chased about 2 minutes total and everyone manages 1 safe unhooks then you all escape. Did the order of chases matter? If I got chased first and used all the pallets then you had to rely on looping windows for the same length of time shouldn’t you be considered more skillful?

    How about your perks, if I played DS BT DH and adrenaline but you ran a goofy plunder, ace, open handed and no mither are we equal skill? I would argue you are more skillful because my perks carried me whereas yours almost hurt you.

Sign In or Register to comment.