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The fact that so many killers say the game is too hard and then complain about BT/DS speaks volumes



  • KebekKebek Member Posts: 3,676

    BT I find completely fine and balance but I canť agree with DS.

    I think most of the killer playerbase would be more happy with DS is it was actually anti-tunneling perk and not 60s immunity from the killer perk. I don't really mind new DS (it's 100% better then the old one to be sure) but I think it could use a change or two.

    I think that it should receive a buff and a nerf at the same time. We should buff it's anti-tunneling potencial and nerf it's immunity for free potencial.

    For example a nerf could be to make it so that DS deactivates on same conditions like the old one + whenever survivor starts doing any interaction besides normal chase interactions and self healing or beiing healed.

    And a buff to compensate for that would be something that would make it even harder for killer that actually tunnels said survivor. Like the timer doesn't tick down in chase/killer proximity or something similar.

    Unfortunately I doubt devs care about these issues since it wasn't 2 years from the last DS change yet so I'm pretty sure that this would be really low on priority list. One can only hope.

  • underlord99underlord99 Member Posts: 1,030

    you would slug the last two to pressure the last gen otherwise you are straight out of luck and they finish the last gen. i can tell you dont play killer that often because you would know how devastating it is to have every survivor on death hook and lose all your momentum because of one perk without a counter. if iwould have hooked one the guy on the ground would have gotten up and would have been healed by his teammate. and they would escape. great job. you just safety pipped.(not a win in my eyes or to even others)

    The difference between adrenaline and NOED is that noed is fully in the hands of survivors, they can prevent it before it even happens. you cant even prevent adrenaline. "stop the generators from being repaired" thats like saying " dont get hooked and you wont get tunneled".

  • CarpemortumCarpemortum Member Posts: 4,511
    edited January 2020

    See, this is where I'm done debating with you. You assume you know what I do and dont play, because you play differently. I DO know what it's like to lose momentum, and ya know what? ######### HAPPENS. Ya know what else causes devastating momentum loss? Slugging two people, to look for a third, only to have him ignore the gen and save the other two, or have one of them with unbreakable.

    There are too many variables for you to be able to say "tsk, I know you dont play killer, because you dont play how I do with my mindset and loadout".

    Ntm your first paragraph ignored the part about the 5th gen still needing to be done for them to escape.

    I also wasnt comparing NOED to adrenaline, just using hypotheticals to prove that it's too random to KNOW that you're right every time.

    You just want to see what you see, draw conclusions, and prove me wrong with facts that are irrelevant in the conversation, ignoring other main points.

    Also, not a tin in your eyes doesnt mean it's not to others. My win is having a fun time playing the game. ######### a 4k. Sorry you're hung up on pips for a rank system that doesnt actually exist or matter. 🤷‍♀️

    I'm out, because your hypothetical situation keeps changing, and at this point you refuse to hear reason or logic, and have turned this into," nuh uh, YOU dont play killer, I'm better than you because XYZ."

    Enjoy your day! I cant talk to brick walls anymore.

  • deadbyhitboxdeadbyhitbox Member Posts: 1,113
    edited January 2020

    Okay? Don't let them get the gens done then. It rewards survivors for completing their objective. As is, they play 95% of the game with 3 perks for a CHANCE they may get a free health state. Even when you do, a lot of the times you're already healed or it heals you when it doesn't matter. Hell, half of the time it screws you because of the speed boost. I'd rather have Dead Hard available than the Sprint Burst.

    The perk is entirely fine.

  • katoptriskatoptris Member Posts: 2,333

    Adrenaline stay inactive until gens get done or end game start up with the closure of the hatch. I remember when prework freddy was wasting time with the 7 sec sleep just to hit the survivor cause of the wake up call from adrenaline. That was the annoying part.

  • AlsendDrakeAlsendDrake Member Posts: 103

    Overall, mechanicly, my only issue with DS is that it works off grabs. If you screwed up enough to get grabbed off a gen or locker, then you shouldn't get DS.

    Heck, I'd even take only deactivating on locker grab, so that cheese isn't available.

    Beyond that, my only real beef with DS is that they upped the stun time due to enduring, then when they changed enduring they didn't change the stun time.

    And my only issue with BT is an issue with Legion. Specifically, Deep Wounds. Having an effect be used in a survivor buff AND a killer kit is... Kinda dumb. It makes it so you can't really do anything with it. As make it too killer sided and the buff becomes bad, make it too survivor sided, and Legion suffers even more. As it is right now, Borrowed Time is now basically just a free health state.

    I vote for rework Legion, and make Deep Wounds a survivor only status, and maybe remove mending so you have to find an ally? Or some way that it's not just a free health state you can extend as long as you want untill you can heal yourself? Idk, I'm just naming things.

  • PigMainBigBrainPigMainBigBrain Member Posts: 1,812

    There are no tutorials on psychopathy, you just.....do it. Learn the hunt and do it.

    Also, OP is being highly disingenuous saying killers (assuming killer mains) complain about DS and BT and DH.... DS got nerfed....I could care less if an entire team brought it to the match, annoying sure, but it'll only buy you about 5 seconds in my chases. Buying time? Couldn't care less, doesn't matter who I hit afterwards if you're the one saving them you're about to go down soon, and if you're the one being saved, you just gave me a free stun on your location as you mend, you're not going anywhere. And dead hard....aside from giving yourself a slight boost to reach a pallet or a window, you're likely again only saving a few seconds. Which is no time at all in a pig or plague game due to objective coverage and natural built in pressure.

    Now if I was a trapper main.....I'd be pissed.

    You guys need to understand that not all killers are created equal. A problem for 1 is not a problem for all. So when you see someone complain about something, instead of netting all killers into 1 box, try to ask the person complaining what killer they're playing. For instance, cannibal doesn't give a single ######### about BT for obvious reasons including Legion and Myers. And a lot of Huntress players don't give a single good god damn about DH. Tons of pigs and plagues don't care about DS as they have mechanics built in that follow a survivor into their doom even without them being hooked.

    The only side in this game that can have blanket statements thrown at them are Survivors, which are literally just different skins.

  • VetratheneVetrathene Member Posts: 1,298

    I've actually been thinking about this lately, mostly in relation to DS. BT is better then it was, but I'm not so sure about DS. A few things there; back before after the first batch of nerfs to DS, only one person got immediatly, everyone had to wiggle, and they could be juggled to a hook. Now, everyone gets it as soon as they get off a hook and have 60 seconds of invulnerability with no counter play. You can slug them to mitigate it, but you still can't do anything to overcome it. Secondly, you could use Enduring to mitigate old DS, but they nerfed it for no other reason then to make it so that DS users got the full 5 seconds they 'deserved'. At this point, I would rather go back to old first nerfed DS if we also got back prenerfed Enduring.

  • Chewy102Chewy102 Member Posts: 542

    You can't know a Survivor is good at looping without being looped by him. You can't know a map tile has a bad loop without seeing it for yourself and having the chase lead to that tile. By the time you figure out you are in a bad chase, even if you started it in your favor, you already spent time in that chase. To break off of that chase you already put time/effort into without having gained anything from it is you choosing to lose the game by wasting your own time.

    So what you are saying, and I may be reading it wrong. Is to spend time finding a Survivor, spend more time to figure out his looping skill and/or the map tiles, and THEN decide to break off the chase only to hope you find another Survivor and hope he isn't good at looping nor is already at a strong loop. If the 2nd Survivor is good at looping, do you break off of him as well?

    Im sorry, but you read like someone who doesn't know jack about Killer gameplay and assumes it is as easy as holding W with an odd M1 click. Or at least someone who never puts any real thought into his gameplay in general. Either way, your replies here reek of bulls***

  • edgarpoopedgarpoop Member Posts: 5,090

    DS is annoying, but I eat it intentionally more often than not if they're between 1st and 2nd hook to avoid it coming back to bite me later.

    Many survivor perks are get out jail free cards. Killers have them too, to be sure, but the survivor meta is centered around second chances, and it can create a balance issue when you have 16 second chances.

  • korean_zombiekorean_zombie Member Posts: 442

    At red ranks, you mean versus a killer between rank 16 and rank 1 as that is matchmaking.

  • ReallyBigShoeReallyBigShoe Member Posts: 764

    OOF. Imagine almost everyone shooting your opinion down like that. It's almost as if you're wrong.

    Also imagine a thread like this coming from a person who complains that Hillbilly is overpowered.

    Top KEK.

  • AsePlayerAsePlayer Member Posts: 1,829

    Imagine over-generalizing everything and insulting someone for disagreeing with you while also providing nothing to the discussion.

    Top KEK

  • ReallyBigShoeReallyBigShoe Member Posts: 764
    edited January 2020

    There were zero insults in my post. I was definitely sarcastic and facetious, but there were no insults. Telling someone they are wrong isn't an insult. Stating fact (that the majority has shot down their opinion) is not an insult. Reiterating their own previous opinions is not an insult.

    Nice try though, bud. That's all it was though. A try.

  • AsePlayerAsePlayer Member Posts: 1,829

    Zero insults?

    Also imagine a thread like this coming from a person who complains that Hillbilly is overpowered.

    You're literally making fun of him posting this because he thinks Hillbilly is OP in another thread. You always seem to just have this mentality of "I didn't directly say it, so it didn't happen" but you imply things every time. You're like the annoying younger brother who always antagonizes everything but didn't directly "do anything". Grow up.

  • ReallyBigShoeReallyBigShoe Member Posts: 764
    edited January 2020

    "This thread was made by the same person who complains Hillbilly is overpowered".

    I fail to see the insult here. Or is this one of those overzealous interpretations that is a result of heavily digging, looking for something to complain about?

    That's like me saying "You're 5'2", but because you're uncomfortable with your height, you call it an insult. Stating fact is not an insult. Even if it doesn't make them look particularly good.

    Keep on keeping on, budski; but if I were you I'd retreat. You have no basis here are, and are only serving to both make yourself look overly sensitive (over nothing, really), and derail the thread even more.

    Even STILL. If you really want to be technical, someone complaining about Hillbilly being overpowered in half their posts has no business insulting killers (by your definition and logic, you see what I did there?) on such a large scale for being angry about certain things that are much more OP than Hillbilly (cause he isn't OP at all).

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188

    Not in the traditional sense. And not with how quickly they can all get done, especially at red ranks.

    There is no way to counter Adrenaline like people can deny NOED. It just doesn't have the possibility.

  • SanityNightSanityNight Member Posts: 101

    Not sure what killers your talking about, because I really don't come in contact with any killers that talk about BT/DS. And it's not because I'm a killer main or what ever, I play both sides equally and just don't come into contact with them lol.

  • BossBoss Member, Trusted Posts: 13,578

    Make Your Choice: Great way to get another Hooking while not tunneling, plus it's a passive DS timer.

    Also, Wraith, so no BT for me.

  • AsePlayerAsePlayer Member Posts: 1,829

    I rarely see NOED denied. It usually always comes into play unless a player has a specific vendetta against totems, (which in that case, that's more gen time for ya).

  • okeoke Member Posts: 102

    I don't even find BT, DS and DH to be worth perk slots. Adrenaline is a strong perk, but it requires all gens to be repaired, so it's hardly a crutch perk.

  • 28_stabs28_stabs Member Posts: 1,474
  • ClickyClickyClickyClicky Member Posts: 3,536

    MYC is so good on Wraith. You can catch the survivors so unaware and no need to worry about BT when you get the instadown on someone else.

  • deadbyhitboxdeadbyhitbox Member Posts: 1,113
    edited January 2020

    Yes, you can counter it very consistently. Sure it isn't countered the way NOED is, but it doesn't change the fact that Adrenaline can be controlled and suppressed easily by a good killer. Good killers hardly ever even deal with Adrenaline because 95% of their games don't make it past 5 gens. Hell, I personally haven't even had an Adrenaline proc against me in ages.

    Adrenaline isn't even that great of a perk either. It's very overrated and is pretty situational.

    It's a perk that needs no changing in my view.

  • BossBoss Member, Trusted Posts: 13,578

    Yup, it's pretty fantastic.

    Even better with "Windstorms".

  • Polychrome_BakuPolychrome_Baku Member Posts: 404

    Oh it's you again. I never agree with you but we might be on the same page here. Mostly.

    Borrowed Time is balanced. But I'm sure they're going to change it to be irrespective of a killer's terror radius and base it on killer distance from the hook. Seems to be the direction they're taking things. It keeps getting indirectly buffed whenever deep wounds changes but it's in a better spot than before. When it used to give endurance to both the unhooked and the rescuer.

    Decisive Strike, I'm not a fan of. Long opinionated comment incoming. It's a 60 second immunity perk. I actually preferred old DS because anyone who wasn't the obsession couldn't use the perk to it's full power. They had to wiggle first. Enduring also reduced it. I don't even know why they haven't reverted the DS stun time since its immune to Enduring now, nor why it's a damn obsession perk anymore. Since the only interaction with the obsession it has is to switch it to the survivor that struck you. Big whoop. It becomes problematic when the entire survivor team is using it but that goes for literally everything. It's like the devs forgot that survivor perks have the chance to be multiplied by a factor of four.

    Dead Hard? Who cares? From what I see it gets cucked by the dedicated servers when it's used for attack dodging and can only be used to extend a loop. Which does suck. Your best bet is to disengage at that point honestly.

    Adrenaline is fine. Since games sre shorter it sees more use, but like NOED its someone going the entire game with 3 perks for the possibility of an endgame bonus. I just don't think it should activate when the hatch is closed. NOED shouldn't either.

    Anyways. The problems with survivors isn't these perks. The problem with survivors lies with unbalanced matchmaking giving them noob killers, large maps, still too many safe loops and toolbox tomfoolery.

  • okeoke Member Posts: 102

    Large maps? *laughs in Hillbilly*

  • jayjay23vazjayjay23vaz Member Posts: 12
    edited January 2020

    Why spend so much time complaining about perks and how unbalanced they are when skill is half the issue. Sure perks like Ds and Bt are powerful against the average killer but usually a Great killer will have strong enough mindgames/strategies to counter anything thrown there way. I feel the fact that 4 friends can join an swf lobby w/ discord, is far more of an issue because of the amount of coordination and planning used by swfs. Swf w/ discord matched with strong Loopers seems to be where perks get their bad reputation from. Ds has always been powerful but as an anti tunneling perk it should really should have a cool down of 30 seconds which isn't too long but allows the survivor to have a chance against tunneling. BT could work with tokens gained by saving other survivors. So maybe after u save 3/2/1 survivors safely u gain the ability to give them borrowed time with the usual timer. That being said if ur bad at the game on either side of the coin whether it be killer or survivor, u definitely shouldn't be complaining about overpowered perks. If a great killer struggles with something they usually adapt.

  • gamerscrybecauseofmegamerscrybecauseofme Member Posts: 360
    edited January 2020

    Breakdown of survivor perks that literally help survivors, survive and what the killer can do about it.

    BT. Borrowed Time. Don't ######### camp, it only works when you're close to the hook. If someone has immediately unhooked someone right after you hooked them, then hit the unhooker first, hit the unhooked as it's strategically sound, either he gets downed or will now have to mend before healing. Wasting more time. Then go after the unhooker.

    DS. Decisive strike. Don't ######### tunnel. Don't take the bait either. Don't pick up a recently downed survivor, don't grab them out of lockers, don't grab them at all. If as killers like to claim, every survivor in every match is ######### using it, then slug the bitches. Or, just eat it and be thankful it won't be used later.

    DH. Dead hard. Like all exhaustion perks, force the usage, as long as they're running they can't recover, their demise is soon coming.

    Adrenawin. Adrenaline. Why are your games lasting this long? How are survivors doing all 5 gens? Seriously, have you been camping, tunneling and being looped all game? Stop! Pressure gens, down quickly, injure survivors, play efficiently. If getting to end game happens often for you, run NOED. If your totems are being cleared and players are still getting to end game, you need to de-rank, you've pip'd yourself somewhere you're not ready for.

  • BenZ0BenZ0 Member Posts: 3,809
    edited January 2020

    Or do it like me, slug and you do nothing wrong :D Besides you will get alot of salt but idc honestly. Especially with oni its super fun.

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