NOED is perfectly balanced. Killer is playing with -1 perk practicaly whole game and if you are playing vs smart survivors that cleanse totems during game, there will be no NOED after repairing last gen. I see problem in players that go gen-rush and ignore totems to repair gen as fast as possible and then die with NOED. Instead of change tactic and focus on cleansing they go cry over forum how NOED is extremely OP and trying to make their lives easier. Problem is in survivors that play for fast win and ignore objectives. Instead of gen-rushing focus on totems and you will make killer playing with 3 perks only for whole game even after all repaired gens. Survivors just have to use that circle thing on their neck and they will be totaly fine with NOED as its is now. If you are hurry to escape fast, you will be in danger of NOED because you didnt touch other objectives and focused purely on escaping.
NOED= Weak and lazy killer. I've seen killers DC at the end because all totems was cleansed. You know at the beginning that you suck pretty much.
No respect for NOED wannabe killers.
You're judging a killer being bad because he didn't 4k before the 5th gen pops. That's incorrect, the killer can be really good, and the map is garbage or the survivors are optimal SWF in gens. If you don't 4k before the 5th gen, doesn't mean you're bad.
See? You told it right. Just cleanse all totems during game instead of gen-rushing and NOED is no danger and OP. Its not rewarding killer for being bad but its punishing survivors for beeing lazy doing secondary objectives and focusing purely on gen-rushing. Its same like I say that BT/DS/Adrenaline is rewarding bad survivors that get caught. Both sides have some kind of perks that are pardoning mistakes or punishing mistakes of other side.
Agree. Nowadays 5 gens can be done in 4 minutes and 4 minutes is not much time for killer to even do something.
Honestly, noed is underpowered. I hate noed, cuz I don't found it "respectable for myself, but if BHVR change it, the forums are gonna go crazy
Agreed. NOED doesn't proc anymore in red ranks though. In fact, I can't remember the last time NOED killed me or my teammates.
How does it "reward killers for being bad"?
Surbivors don't automatically enter the dying state so that the killer just has to pick them up one by one once NOED activates. Survivors do need to be found and hit once, so stealth and looping are still options. If a killer was truly bad it shouldn't be much of a problem to hide or give them a good lenghty chase so the other survivors could open/99 both exits gates unpressured, right?
It is also a Hex, so the perk pretty much is in the survivors hands and can be disabled entirely. Preemptively even, so it never comes into play.
If the game goes from 0k to a 4k just because of NOED it more often than not means that the survivors were playing poorly and threw themselves at the killer.
Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and leave someone behind or take one for the team and be the martyr if things go sideways and the totem is nowhere to be found.
All in all it punishes bad survivors more than it rewards bad killers imo.
I totally agree. I've been saying for ages that it's one of the most balanced killer perks. I just don't understand why people cry about something with such an easy counter.
People cry about gen rushing all the time, yet they have a counter in NOED and choose not to use it.
I'm never mad when I get hit by it because I know it means we didn't cleanse totems. Simple as.
It makes no sense to say NOED rewards bad killers, but turn around and say second chance perks like DS are okay.
I honestly think people will never be satisfied with this game to be honest.
Me: *sees dull totem* Noed, is that you?
Peeps in my queue: *doesn't look for totems*
Noed: Wanna play a game?
Me: plz nu
Survivors in queue: AHHHHHHHHHHHHH IT NOED IT NOED OPEN GATE AND RUUUUN
Also me: *sees hooked survivor* I ain't afraid of no ghost.
My noed games in a nutshell. Hi, I'm Martyr, hru?
Yeah noed isn't really op for the entire match its only useful for endgame
Isn't the hatch exactly the same? Only the hatch is a game mechanic of course and survivors don't exactly need to waste a perk slot on it.
NOED is perfectly counterable, but it's nevertheless extremely annoying to play against as survivor. But then again, in this 5 minute game meta, I can see why it's being run so often now.
*gets 4k with 3 gens left*
"Ahahaha, you're running NOED, baby killer."
Yeah - Shame I never had the chance to play with 4 perks :(
"Adrenaline is a reward for doing the objectives, NOED is not." Well, doing gens is what you're supposed to do, you didn't do anything special or risked anything other than playing the game as you should. Imagine a perk rewarding the killer for hooking survivors, "if you did 6 hooks, a random survivor dies" that would be a reward for doing nothing but playing the game.
Not gonna lie, this point is the best I've seen made on these forums in a long time.
It's actually not, but that's just your opinion. People win games by playing to THEIR strength, not YOURS.
So are Keys, and yet....
Killers haven't failed anything. The job's in the name, and the match isn't over just because the last gen pops, but nice try.
And to all three of you, perks exist because different play styles exist. Some prefer killing quickly, other like to stalk and play mind games. Just because you don't personally like to play with it, or it doesn't mesh with your style, doesn't make it bad.
Seeing as MMR is being added, a "win" has to be defined in some manner
Failing to defend gens and then relying on Noed to score an easy kill should not be considered a win
Adrenaline is fine too
I agree with the OP...
1. NOED is a hex, totems are there for a reason (maps are broken plz fix)
2. NOED has a place in the game (different play styles exist for every killers just like addons)
3. NOED is not a crutch (not meny killer players use it... I don't, if it were a crutch perk "80% of killers would've been using it and would've been cleansed-see what I did there-)
Defending Gens isn't the objective. It never has been. That could only EVER have been considered the objective if you were trying to prioritize a timer system that ultimately punished Survivors for not finishing them within a given limit.
Since that's not the case, NOED can't be considered anything like what you're saying. It's intended to be a long term strategy for those who wish to draw out the game, or to assist Killers as a backup. It can also be used to punish gen rushing, and as a means to assist perks like Rancor.
Besides, those that wait to try and only score kills with it, alone, aren't going to be met with much success, but even then, it's THIER voice to play that way. It's THIER prerogative.
As to winning, if you're looking for a clearly defined measure of a win, them Survivors escaping is the only real one, aside from a 4k. Personally, I'd say even 1k could be considered a victory, given the current skew towards Survivors.
Survivors I can see running crutches because you can't really rely on your team that much, and need some insurance in case they are potatoes.
Well killers cannot rely on the broken maps and stupid structures, and need some insurance against optimal survivors and the map in case the odds are heavily stacked against them.
Again there are 4 survivors and 1 killer, if survivors run crutch perks who commonly play in SWF groups then they have no rights to complain about NoED. If they are going to run DS, DH, Adrenaline and BT x4 with toolboxes then they seriously cannot complain about NOED.
It's not really fair to justify bad teammates as a means to run crutch perks but if the killer runs them then they are bad. There are a lot of things that can heavily stack against the killer too such as strong loops, optimal survivors, and toolboxes to name a few. Both sides have odds stacked against them and the game is definitely not in the killers hands.
Alright but like I said if all 4 survivors are optimal then what stops them all from running the strong loops? Wretched Shop, Iron works, Disturb ward are all strong loops survivors can easily make it to, especially if they get injured and the small speed burst.
Spirit Fury can be easily countered by I don't know... dropping the pallet early and not being so greedy at loops?
Bamboozle isn't even that good and if a structure like Wretched Shop and Disturb ward has multiple windows which they do then that perk is completely useless. I hardly ever see killers running that perk and the last time someone did was when they played Vault master Myers which was 3 months ago approximately.
If you're going to call killers noobs for running crutch perks then I'm sorry but when 4 survivors can all stack second chance perks then they are equally as bad.
Lastly I never mentioned tunneling so I have no clue to why you brought it up. For me personally I chase for around 25 seconds and if nothing comes out of it such as breaking a few pallets or injuring them then I drop the chase. Even destroying a few pallets is good enough for me because I can chase a new survivors with pallets gone too.
NOED is the perfect example of how a perk shouldnt work. Doing nothing for it to get a game changer. All killers would cry a river if survivors would have anything similar, but because its a killer thing its all fine. Double standards like always.
They DO have a lot of things similar, Sprint Burst is a free sprint for doing nothing and it's a game changer for a wraith vs 4 sprint bursts. Balanced Landing is a reward for finding a hill. Lithe a reward for finding a window. Dead Hard? A complete game changer, the killer should have already downed you but you pressed E to extend the chase and help your teammates finish the gens they otherwise wouldn't. A lot of survivor perks are game changers. Don't get me started on 4 adrenalines.
DS requires a survivor to fail at stealth, lose the chase (or get grabbed), and get hooked in order to activate, as it activates upon unhook.
You can't ever activate DS through godly/perfect play, but strangely, it can guarantee escapes and create unwinnable scenarios for the killer.
I wondered when the first one will call that nonsense again. DS only exists to compensate for cheap plays of killers. NOED doesnt do anything like that, cause survivors do not have the possibility to play cheap.
"DS only exists to compensate for cheap plays" he said, jumping inside and outside of the locker repeatedly.
You have a very strange way to define game changer. The game is designed for exhaustion perks. And Adrenalin already has the way of work for reward or do you thing 5gens pop up with no effort?
Said the one with the obvious tunnel vision. Stop crying for your scummy gameplay.
And you can't counter spirit fury if it is used correctly, building it up on one person and then swapping targets and hitting another person with it.
Alright, then the killer is playing strategically, what's the problem? They are thinking ahead of the game in making Spirit Fury work but once survivors catch on it's not necessarily hard to counter. Sure it will definitely work when the survivor doesn't expect it but if the killer uses that tactic on them once and they keep falling for it then it's the survivors being stupid and not the killer.
That's the same with other perks too, like if I'm hit with a quick and quiet and not expecting it then I might lose the survivor for a few seconds and by the time when I noticed what has happened they would have made distance but once they hit me with it then I will expect it later on.
Bamboozle is the best killer perk in the game next to whispers and corrupt intervention. Any M1 killer can crutch on it hard. It shuts down almost every loop in the game if you use it well (aka vault the jungle gym window).
I wont deny that Bamboozle is extremely good at blocking off Jungle Gyms and the only counter is to move on, which most of the time allows the killer to get a hit. It's powerful at jungle gyms but once it gets to structural loops then it's literally pointless. It's also pointless if jungle gyms are connected (looking at you Ormond) or if you get bad map RNG because it blocks only one window at a time, which if it blocks more then it will be too powerful. Or something else I've seen more, jungle gym next to shack, loop shack -> window blocked -> loop jungle gym -> window blocks -> loop shack. Bloodlust will kick in but still Bamboozle didn't really help much there.
Honestly I wont argue about the tier of Bamboozle because everyone has varying opinions on their favorite perk. If you love that perk then that's fine by me but in my opinion it's nowhere near as powerful to make it worthwhile using a whole lot. But then again everyone has different opinions on what perks are strong for them so I wont argue about it.
If it is a SWF running 4x second chance perks, sure, they are bad. But solo Q? Nah, you can't even rely on your team to save you or not kill themselves on their first hook. Everything is fair game for solo Q survivors.
Well at least you're not in-denial about survivors being bad if they stack on a bunch of second chance perks so I appreciate you for that. But you still need to realize that it's a 1v4 the killer is supposed to be stronger. In regards to perks it's 4 perks vs 16 perks so it would make sense. Although I hate using videos as an example, SpaceCoconut made a video on "why survivor is easy mode" and the main point that sticks out is that the time pressure is on the survivors the survivor control the flow of the game. If they stick onto gens they will most likely win the game because the killer can only chase 1 survivor at a time. If the survivors spread out on gens on completely different sides of the map then it's game over but that does require competent team mates.
The logic that I don't understand is it's fine for solos to run crutch perks but not killers. It's a team based game so if you team plays poorly then why does that entitle people to run crutches but still call the killer bad for running them? I understand the frustrations of solo, trust me I do, but I don't like the logic of "Solos can run as many crutches as they want but killers are not allowed to!!!". Killers with no mobility are already at a disadvantage on a LOT of maps so why can't they also run crutch perks?
In comparison to you comparing SWF to solo:
If Billy runs crutches then he's bad but it's fine for clown to because you can't rely on your power alone with no mobility to get kills before 3 gens pop in a single chase. Everything is fair game for clown.
Do you understand what I'm trying to say? It's not fair to say one side can run crutches but the other side is terrible and relies on them to win.
"Said the one with the obvious tunnel vision. Stop crying for your scummy gameplay." he said, as he ran directly to the hooked survivor in full view of the killer. While this would usually be a move too dangerous to employ, he had an ace up his sleeve; Borrowed Time, a perk which gives players 15 seconds of damage immunity, and with no risk.