Second Wind isn't anti-tunnel in any shape or form. It has nothing to do with being overshadowed. There could be zero anti-tunnel perks in the game other than SW and people still wouldn't run SW for anti-tunnel. It doesn't punish tunneling at all. If someone makes it 30 seconds off the hook they weren't being tunneled anyway.
Perfect change for DS, that's balanced.
With the form of BT you're wanting it turns into quite literally just a better form of the current DS we have now...in a world where the current DS is stupidly OP and currently the best perk in the game. There's basically zero counter play in this BT.
This change could affect the killer if only 1 survivor has Borrowed Time equipped. If the killer wants to camp, but this 1 survivor keeps countering the killer's camping then the killer can tunnel them out of the game to continue their camping.
After the change, only 1 survivor would have the camping counter and the killer would avoid hooking that survivor if they wanted to camp.
The Borrowed Time user changes from a high priority target to a low priority one.
Uh... You have BT to counter camping. If you unhook someone in front of a camper and they weren't running BT, that's on them, not you. The perk still does exactly what it was designed for, but now let's you decide if you want that protection instead of the random stranger coming to farm... er unhook you.
Asks nothing of the survivor running it? Just a perk slot that's useless against people that don't camp.
Exhaustion perks aside, every single survivor perk is heavily situational. Most games will go by without using half of them. Even the "meta" perks are all situational.
Adrenaline requires gens completed and even then can be completely useless if you're uninjured and not currently in a Chase.
DS is useless if you don't get tunneled. BT is useless if the killer doesn't camp. Unbreakable does nothing if you don't get slugged. So on and so on.
Hell, three of those perks wouldn't even be the "meta" if killers just played better. They'd be useless.
Boy, do you even play killer?
You'd have to give some indication to other survivors you have it. Not a bad idea though.
However at this point I think it's better to leave it as is. It makes more sense for the rescuer to have it because they are the ones that want the safe rescue ensured.
The ONLY change I'd like to see for BT is that the icon flashes when you give someone BT, just because sometimes you might think you did when you didn't, and vice versa.
Maybe it could notify people if someone with Borrowed Time is within range, like what they did with We'll Make It.
I see SW as a hybrid perk: It's anti-tunnel and efficiency.
If the killer tunnels you off the hook, if you can manage to last 32 seconds in a chase, you just increased the requirement for the killer to down you by 100%.
However, if you don't get tunneled, the perk changes roles, it now helps you to be efficient on time.
Awesome, glad we can agree!
You can down the savior or you can wait out the Endurance status effect. Your version removes the second part of the or statement because you increased it to 30 seconds.
If other survivors are aware that I have Borrowed Time while I'm on the hook, it turns into a hook-rush race to get the free and safe rescue points, leading me to be unhooked sooner than I would like. Keep that info private.
Well if you do they wouldn't know you have it and wouldn't even attempt the save when they maybe should. This is the EXACT issue with DS sometimes. I get hate messages from survivors like "you should have just farmed me I have DS" and it's like I have no idea you have DS I'm not taking the risk.
Please note: "memes"
I thought SW paused in chase or smth?
It doesn't, the timer continues to deplete regardless of your status 😁
Huh it's not as bad as I thought. Also, Dying is a status I'm pretty sure.
My apologies, by status I mean where you are compared to the killer. 😁
BT for myself would be a nice thing to have and I have asked for it in the past. Yet I see a problem for solo players:
People could farm other players following the line of thought "they don't bring BT, then that's their own fault".
We can't predict whether such a change would encourage safe unhooks or encourage farming.
I don't see how I could frame my reasoning on SW any better, we just aren't going to agree here.
For BT, waiting out the Endurance buff is pretty unrealistic. They are getting to another loop. I'd hardly consider that a reasonable counter, especially at end game.
And what if all 4 are running it? Then he has no option.
He also has no idea who's running it and who isn't until BT has soaked a hit. By that point you've already gained a lot of its value anywhere. I don't see the issue here.
If a perk slot is the cost itself then we have a lot of other perks that are getting double negatives that aren't even as strong. Calling that the cost for it's strength level is a bit of a stretch. Current BT you just yolo in for the save with zero thought or timing because of it's current design.
"Exhaustion perks aside, every single survivor perk is heavily situational. Most games will go by without using half of them. Even the "meta" perks are all situational."
The current survivor meta perks are quite literally the opposite of situational. DS, BT, Unbreakable etc are not situational, let me explain. Even IF the perks do not activate, they have STILL done a lot for you. If they didn't activate then the killer played completely "fair" by survivor standards and you would have won the game anyway if you and your team were actually good. If you still lost then ya'll misplayed a lot. The fact that they force a killer to play a certain way to intentionally avoid them activating IS why they are strong.
"Adrenaline requires gens completed and even then can be completely useless if you're uninjured and not currently in a Chase."
I have zero issue with Adrenaline. It rewards doing their objective with a perk down. Well designed perk.
"DS is useless if you don't get tunneled. BT is useless if the killer doesn't camp. Unbreakable does nothing if you don't get slugged. So on and so on."
Refer to my response on meta perks above. You're entirely missing the value those perks are giving you even when they don't activate.
"Hell, three of those perks wouldn't even be the "meta" if killers just played better. They'd be useless."
I don't think you play killer at a high level or you would see how much this sentence isn't accurate at all.
What if running BT did both? Helps when you rescue another or if you are the one being rescued? Like how they changed kindred.
The only issue I see with BT is that it makes instant farming viable for safe rescue points right now.
To help with change while on the hook its instant so being farmed gives you the effect but while off the hook it takes 15s to activate but only when not within a set range of the hook giving the killer a chance to leave and counter it.
I think BT having one use is ok but I also think its usage should be dependent on how the killer is playing. If they camp they lose chaser emblem points so for every so many minus points in chaser it adds a stack to BT making it stronger over time.
My question is, would this synergies with Slippery Meat in any way? Because I actually think it should under this condition, would really help Solo que
Pretty much an easy solution to make the perk healthier but nobody before could've come to this idea xD
What did that ever have to do with survivors hook rushing?? Stop being so petty all the time.
Don't see why not. Probably kind of irrelevant though as Slippery Meat is one of the perks they said they are reworking currently, so its effect is probably going to change a lot.
So you're essentially saying have it like the perk was in its previous iteration where it protected both but was a 1 time use?
Tbh this is part of why I hate the emblem system for survivors. You shouldn't be penalized necessarily because you can't reach an unhook. At the very least you should get points for working toward your objective while someone else goes for the unhook because most times when more than one survivor is going to the hook, that's gonna end badly for survivors. Not that from the killer side I see that as a bad thing, it should be a heavy risk... But I don't think it's fair to penalize playing smart against going for a bad risk.
No it still only protects the actual person on the hook when using it be that yourself or another player 😉.
I'm aware, but honestly I think it's only going to be buffed. Hell, they may give it a passive BT effect for survivors being camped. The whole point of the perk is to have a strong chance if self unhook to throw momentum, give a solo survivor who survived to the end and played well a final chance at escape, and relieve the pressure from teammates for having to go for unsafe saves.
It's only weak right now because against camping it's ineffective and it doesn't even guaruntee you'll get off. If I'm trying to think like these devs, I'm putting my money in the rework addressing that
And with a 1 time use? That seems fair
I don't think tunneling is the only way to win as killer...sometimes, with some killers, it is but usually you'll do just fine spreading pressure as long as you don't let the survivors hook rush safely.