Is this good?
For a survivor, For a killer,
Let me know what you think.
From my perspective it isn't bad but it's still not up to par. This game came out in 2016 and I still believe it's core isn't balanced. For Killer Gens can go very quickly after the first chase and with toolboxes and prove thy self It's still a issue. When I play survivor with bond and prove gens go fairly quick of the killer hasn't downed anyone within 3 gen's. Tbh the game is only fun if the person goes down within a modest time. Then someone goes for the rescue then bam! He's already on the rescuers and bam another hook. The gen's won't pop if that happens. That when the game is nailbitting fun in my opinion. Otherwise it's boring and killer can feel unplayable.
I think the biggest problem is wait time ratio to game time. It's not inherently bad that the games are relatively short, but the amount of wait time you have to go through makes it awful.
I think the things that should be fixed first are matchmaking, maps, moris, keys, and toolboxes. Those are the biggest culprits to bad experiences as of right now.
Generator time is actually stupid, 80 seconds to complete a generator solo without any perks or addons.
Quickest game I've had is 5-6 minutes, who can have fun in that time? Yet survivor mains or the devs don't see an issue, smh.
Honestly it’s insanely fast.
It’s good for the survivors, horrible for the killer.
But even when I play survivor and the game ends in 5 minutes it’s not fun at all.
Gen speed comes down to what Killer it is.
A high tier Killer. Current gen times are either on par, or can be too slow for Survivors to have a chance. Odds are, a good high tier Killer can kill faster than Survivors can work gens.
A mid tier Killer. Gen times tend to be in a good spot more often than not. Yes you will have super fast gen times here or there, but you will also have games that the Killer will stomp. It depends on what Killer it is and how skilled everyone is in that game.
Low tier Killers. Gen times are HORRIBLE! FAR too fast for a low tier Killer to make progress and odds are you wont do much as Killer but lose the game if everyone is of equal skill.
The question isn't really about gen times. It boils more towards how viable that Killer is. Billy is damned good and gen times might be too slow when against a good Billy. But at the same time Clown is at the other end with gen times being too fast. With how different each Killer plays and how far apart they are from each other in skill potentials, you almost can't have a universal gen time without something being too far one way or the other.
There is a few ways to deal with this.
1- Make gens universal like they are now and have Killer tier lists. Some Killers are just going to be better than others. No way around that so if you favor a sub par Killer, prepare to not do all that well on average and lose games.
2- Make gens times based on the Killer tier. High tier Killers use one set of gen times, Mid tier another, and low tier with its own as well. The devs can figure out what those times are and what Killer belongs in what tier. The community can then play what they want without having certain Killers feel too weak as they would have a handicap,
3- Make gen times based on each individual Killer. Not going to happen in truth. Too much work but would near make certain that each and every Killer has a "fair" chance to do his job before it's too late.
I like #2 the most. But I just don't see any of this happening though. Low tier Killers will ALWAYS be low tier because they aren't good enough. Giving them longer gen times would likely prolong their games too much and just drag things out a bit too much.
For me unbalanced time frames for both sides. For survivor insanely fast gen speeds, well organised teams can finish in 5 mins. For killer its chase and hook every survivor 3x which is impossible in 5 mins. No surprise that killers camp and tunnel because game is so survivor sided.
The early game gens go way too fast and easy.
There needs to be some kind of mechanic to slow the early gens down.
Personally they are two fast for me. I play Wraith (I just love sneaking up on survivors when I find them) and I am a new and not a very good Killer getting matched with players 8 ranks in front of me, so that doesn't help. But if I get a bad map, or start in a bad spot and can't find anyone to get a chase started, it sucks. Had a game last night that lasted 5 minutes at most. And this was with me trying to chase a couple times. Never was able to pressure and slow down gens and they were popping them off left and right, even with 3 people working on them. Game was zero fun.
On the flip side though, I had a great match the other night (they were only 7 ranks higher, haha) were 3 gens were very near each other and it was by basement so made for a great 3 gen strat. So I was able to keep them off them and slow them down a bit on the other gens without giving up those 3. By the time they had 4 gens done I had eliminated 1 player, and almost another. Had a blast for about 10 minutes of cat and mouse with the last 3 gens. I ended up getting a 4k (which rarely happens) and had so much fun.
So if I get the right gen setup, and am not over matched by survivors, then they are fine, but more times than not the gens are too fast for me.
@bob_bobber Hey thanks for asking the question.
I pinned this thread in hope to see a good discussion, different opinions and to read about your concerns. Let's see what you guys think and please keep it clean.
Awful, they just fly by way too fast in a lot of games. Survivors show no fear and will sit on it and take hits and then go right back on the gen because they have zero fear of the killer, they know they can just plow through the gens faster than you can kill- always. The entire start of the game is moot and like 90% of the game takes place near the end as it's the only time you can actually do anything about the gens, and ONLY if they didn't do them in an order that has like 2 on opposite sides of the entire map.
As survivor though I know it's usually fine at base speed, but when we rush gens and use toolboxes, prove, and all work to do gens together we definitely have a much MUCH higher chance of winning than we should. It's insane. We don't have to do anything else, hell most of us can go an entire game without seeing the killer when we use toolboxes because as soon as someone is getting chased that is a free gen, so even if they down and hook them, we just do that each time and all 5 gens are done and only one person is even on last hook. There is just no way for them to compete.
The early game, toolboxes, and multiple people on one gen are the biggest culprits. Thing is holding M1 on a gen is kinda boring, but it's also why survivor is so much more relaxing and far less stressful than playing killer is. I feel like survivors just need something to get them more engaged more frequently, instead of just sitting on a gen going M2 with a toolbox for like 40 seconds and then going to another gen.
At the time it is so hard to evaluate the speed of the generators due to the rank disparity. Once we are playing against people of similar skill issues of balance should be the main focus.
The only part of gens that is possibly an issue is at the start of the game. At this point the killer is at a disadvantage as they need to find someone first to get their first chase going. If that killer finds someone quickly though, gen speed is completely fine (outside of maybe toolboxes, which I’m considering a separate discussion than base speed). If it takes a little time though, it could be bad. That’s why ScottJunds idea is definitely on the right track in giving the killer an assist at the start, but once they find someone and initiate a chase, that assist is removed.
I have both seen and been apart of games where all of the gens are completed in under 4mins.... this imo shouldnt exist/be possible...
So the gen speed is wayy too fast when you have players focused on the objective given to them.
Games do go fast a good portion of the time as Killer. As survivor, when I play is 50/50 fast games and slow games. Another problem is wait times as survivor.
A question, how come i have to wait to join a game to wait again for more people to join? Can i just skip the middle man and join in waiting for people in a server? I know i don't know the behind the scenes but i always wondered that.
Obviously they go to fast
As a survivor wait 10 to20 mins to play a 5to 7mins game isn't fun.
As a killer three gens pop when i get my first hook is not funny at all(even with 30secs find people 40sec chase 10sec hook.)
I feel like they are way too quick as a killer. I can find a survivor instantly and down him in no time and still lose two gens by the time they're hooked.
On the other hand m1ing gens is already boring as survivor.
Perhaps a system where the longer you interact with the killer the quicker your personal gen speed is? Whereas people who don't interact and don't win chases against killers have longer gen speeds. if you're hooked it resets.
So people who don't interact do gens at 90% speed and people who do get a gen speed buff 110%?
I haven't thought about this very hard and how tunnelling etc would work with this ^
I would actually leave gen speed the same, but make the skill checks a lot harder. Only more difficult skill checks for red and purple ranks though. I would leave speed alone for new players, but needs to be a progressive difficulty on completing gens.
Honestly? Standard repair times are largely fine. Toolboxes, Prove Thyself, huge maps, and stacking on a gen are where things can get silly.
Without any of those things, it can already be very difficult for average survivors to get gens done. So changing any of the base times is not a good plan. Prove thyself should be reworked to have nothing to do with gen speeds, stacking on a gen should have a much harsher penalty than it does currently, and toolboxes need to do something other than just improve gen times. Perhaps making working on one quieter or counter perks around gen auras like surveillance or discordance for as long as it's being used.
Point is, you need to work only on the crazy outlier situations and not the general gen times.
Crazy idea for prove thyself:
"Escaping the killer in a chase fills you with confidence, granting you one token, stacking three times. Each token reduces repair/healing/cleansing/opening exit speeds by 9/7/5% but increases movement speed by 3%. At three stacks, gain the broken status. Being hooked removes all tokens."
The early game goes way too fast due against experienced survivors due to map size and overly safe/numerous pallets. It's tough to apply pressure to experienced survivors with good map knowledge, and you can't pressure 4 survivors at once unless they're spaced suboptimally
This makes sense, when I first started playing survivor, I would miss skill checks all the time, now when I play Survivor (I mostly play killer) I don't miss that many of them. I can't imagine how easy skill checks are for people that play all the time and our in red and purple ranks.
I think gen time isn’t in proportion to chase time (especially with the amount of safe pallets) and the time to find survivors because of how insanely big most maps are. Low mobility killers really suffer the most because it takes ages to get from one side of the map to the other.
items like toolboxes and keys are now even stronger, perks like prove thyself are just unfun to go against and as a killer you just sometimes feel helpless because survivors are able to hold m1 faster than you are able to find, chase and hook a survivor.
Now that it’s almost guaranteed that you will lose around 2 gens before the game really started, killers get punished harder for mistakes than before as losing a gen is more meaningful now when you only have 2 or 3 left during the rest of the game.
On the other hand I play survivor too and while it’s genuinely boring to do gens so I have always been against increasing gen time or something similar. If a new objective were to be introduced, it has to be engaging enough for survivors.
I also suggest offerings like mories (and keys) and addons like Iri head get looked into. In my eyes they’re just as unfair and really make unfun and shift the balance of the game.
The game is way to fast. I have to commit to 3 gens way to early to be consistent. This strategy gets really old and stale.
I can bring mori, camp,or tunnel to get a survivor out early. This strategy is effective but not good for the health of the game.
The amount of toolboxes being brought in the past few weeks is compounding the issue. But its DBD... oneside loves to kick the otherside when their down.
This game will NEED to follow a ranked system that changes gameplay as a person ranks up. So it begins to feel balanced. AN average ranking system will need to adjust the following.
I know there will be the discussion of the following:
Ultimately the system may just be fine where it really only can be. Since people circumvent ranking systems all the time. It might just come down to not having a rank, and using a system that tips the scale of the match all together. So if it feels like it is moving too fast or too slow. It can compensate for that. Which would be a HEADACHE for programmers.
While I sympathise with the time pressure placed on killer caused by generator-speed, I also try to see it from the other side.
If survivors weren't able to pump out all 5 generators within 2 minutes, it would mean that in order to win the killer just needs to camp everyone on the hook to death, since the survivors have no meaningful way to punish it. Thus making fast generators a nessecary evil.
Map design, and survivors stacking up 2nd chance perks are more of a problem in my opinion. If you have a big map like Mother's Dwelling or a map littered with zero-counterplay loops like Blood Lodge, there is really nothing the killer can do if survivors are determined to finish the generators. The chasetime and the time it takes for killers to patrol generators is what causes the imbalance in my opinion.
I think the gen speed times are too fast for most killers without mobility. But I think just increasing gen times would be boring. I think to make it so survivors and killers interact, survivors should have to find fuel and parts to repair gens, or at least make them repair faster. So Increase base time on gens by 150% but make it that if you find a part or fuel it returns them to 100%, and then 90%, and capping out at 85% for finding three of these items.
I think games go too fast, and players aren't able to do everything they need to most times.
Honestly, a good way to change that is to remove the hook timer altogether. Camping is now utterly pointless. Everyone gets three hook phases (replacing the struggle mashing with a simple give up button), and now we can slow other things down some.
Can still leave the penalty for trying to Kobe as three failed attempts will put you into struggle phase. Have it so that if you're the last survivor in the trial and you were already hooked, it just kills you instead of drawing it out.
I think BHVR already received quite a lot of information before you did.
Tru3talent, Otzdarva, Scott Jund, and many steamers and feedbacks in this webboard mentioned in the same way.
The result of your decision make more problem such as broken rank system, lack of killers, lobby waiting, more camping & tunneling, always high tier killers facing.
I hope you need listen voice of customer before it's too late.