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Lag switching bannable, laggy survivors = fine

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  • KaelumKaelum Member Posts: 975

    @yobuddd dedicated servers should prevent the loss of BP due to the killer DCing, but the latency will get slightly worse. It will be similar to playing a KYF match where the spectator is the host. Will it end being hit through pallets and windows? No, and it will get slightly worse. The killer’s Internet connection will still be a factor, but not in the same way that it is today.

    The flashlight issue is not only a killer connection issue, as a survivor with a very poor connection can DC as well. The killer connection supports bi-directional telemetry to each survivor, which means he sends and receives ~4x the data that a survivor does. The devs can reduce the number of times/second that the flashlight is used, beyond what they have currently done. Compressing the telemetry can help to, but with some new hacks that currently in use, I don’t see this happening. The amount of data will double if they encrypt the telemetry.

    Latency = asychronus activities occurring in parallel. The problem is when 2 opposing actions occur at near the same time. Who wins? Currently, both win, and I don’t see that changing. However, when there is a greater difference in time between the actions, then the server can declare that the latter action occurred too late and ignore it completely. Thus, whomever has the worst connection, will have the worst experience. With a bad enough connection the killer could be going back in time, or not lunging/swinging, while the survivors get away. It all depends upon what rules BHVR puts into place on the servers and clients.

  • SlayerSlayer Member Posts: 1,148
    Lol you killer is the server survivors cant lag on your screen without doing bad for themselves wait for dedicated servers where you going to end up on survivors side when you no longer will be able to just blindly go for lunge and still succeed
  • Swiftblade131Swiftblade131 Member Posts: 1,793
    edited January 2019

    My favorite, is when a survivor sits there for 40 seconds, sees how bad the ping is, and chooses to stay/ready up, then complains about the bad ping after the match.

    I am not going to drop my lobby for 1 survivor with bad ping, when the rest are sitting at a comfortable 80 ping. Not my problem.

  • SlayerSlayer Member Posts: 1,148

    My favorite, is when a survivor sits there for 40 seconds, sees how bad the ping is, and chooses to stay/ready up, then complains about the bad ping after the match.

    I am not going to drop my lobby for 1 survivor with bad ping, when the rest are sitting at a comfortable 80 ping. Not my problem.

    The game is filled with casuals
  • DeeboDeebo Member Posts: 16

    @Swiftblade131 said:
    My favorite, is when a survivor sits there for 40 seconds, sees how bad the ping is, and chooses to stay/ready up, then complains about the bad ping after the match.

    I am not going to drop my lobby for 1 survivor with bad ping, when the rest are sitting at a comfortable 80 ping. Not my problem.

    It being green in the lobby is not what determines how well the match will perform. Ping is a measurement of how fast you get a response when you send a request. Think of it as sonars on marine vessels. The vessel that sends out a ping, waits for the echo to return after it reflected off a surface, the time from transmitting and reception is what the ingame "ping-meter" measures in milliseconds.

    The problem is that a host can be on a poor wi-fi connection, or a 2.4GHz connection. If there are many devices using it, the ping isn't going to accurately represent how the performance will be. For instance, I'm sure you've experienced a weird jerk or hiccup, throwing your character in any direction or seen players run facefirst into walls. This isn't caused by a "high ping", but rather a dip in connection quality. Once the hiccup is over, you're back in green numbers.

  • DeeboDeebo Member Posts: 16

    @Kaelum said:
    @yobuddd dedicated servers should prevent the loss of BP due to the killer DCing, but the latency will get slightly worse. It will be similar to playing a KYF match where the spectator is the host. Will it end being hit through pallets and windows? No, and it will get slightly worse. The killer’s Internet connection will still be a factor, but not in the same way that it is today.

    The flashlight issue is not only a killer connection issue, as a survivor with a very poor connection can DC as well. The killer connection supports bi-directional telemetry to each survivor, which means he sends and receives ~4x the data that a survivor does. The devs can reduce the number of times/second that the flashlight is used, beyond what they have currently done. Compressing the telemetry can help to, but with some new hacks that currently in use, I don’t see this happening. The amount of data will double if they encrypt the telemetry.

    Latency = asychronus activities occurring in parallel. The problem is when 2 opposing actions occur at near the same time. Who wins? Currently, both win, and I don’t see that changing. However, when there is a greater difference in time between the actions, then the server can declare that the latter action occurred too late and ignore it completely. Thus, whomever has the worst connection, will have the worst experience. With a bad enough connection the killer could be going back in time, or not lunging/swinging, while the survivors get away. It all depends upon what rules BHVR puts into place on the servers and clients.

    Close enough, but not quite right. You're assuming that the server will handle information in the order it receives it. Information can be "timestamped", and so even if the server receives the package for a killer lunging 2ms later than a survivor using Dead Hard, the killers' lunge will still be the event that takes place for both parties.

    A server will improve the experience for people who have good connection quality, and make people with poor connection quality have to look into it and improve their connection issues. That's in stark contrast to where it is currently:
    If I play as a Killer (my connection is amazeballs), it feels responsive and fair all the 85%-90% of the time, I'd guess, and then I see the odd stuttery, short-distance-teleporting survivors. But playing as survivor, sometimes I take hits that look like they aren't anyway near me at all. But that's a subjective observation.

    Dedicated servers, will result in two things:

    1) While your quality may vary, it will be a fairer game for all players.

    2) Players with poor connection quality will likely struggle more playing killers than they are used to, but the same will be true for clutch-important timings, like Dead Hard.

  • KaelumKaelum Member Posts: 975

    @Deebo you have obviously never worked on an online game before. TimeStamp? It is impossible to use such a mechanism in any fair way. In fact, it it impossible to know the time differences between machines that is less than the latency between the machines. NTP, and other protocols for achieving the same goal, make some good guesses, but they are by no means perfect. Add that to a game that people can easily hack, and you’d have a [BAD WORD] storm.

    You obviously don’t know how TCP and UDP work either. While packets may be sent out in a very specific order, they do not always arrive at the client in that specific order. Some packets take longer than others to arrive, as not all packets take the same route, so trying to calculate anything that is less than the latency between the 2 machines would not be fair to both players.

    Servers will NOT improve the experience for anyone, as latency will increase. Latency now is peer-to-peer, latency with servers is client-to-server-to client. The server adds latency to all connections, thus my analogy to the current KYF where the spectator is the host. Other than that, you just repeated what I had already stated.

  • SlayerSlayer Member Posts: 1,148

    @Kaelum said:
    @Deebo you have obviously never worked on an online game before. TimeStamp? It is impossible to use such a mechanism in any fair way. In fact, it it impossible to know the time differences between machines that is less than the latency between the machines. NTP, and other protocols for achieving the same goal, make some good guesses, but they are by no means perfect. Add that to a game that people can easily hack, and you’d have a [BAD WORD] storm.

    You obviously don’t know how TCP and UDP work either. While packets may be sent out in a very specific order, they do not always arrive at the client in that specific order. Some packets take longer than others to arrive, as not all packets take the same route, so trying to calculate anything that is less than the latency between the 2 machines would not be fair to both players.

    Servers will NOT improve the experience for anyone, as latency will increase. Latency now is peer-to-peer, latency with servers is client-to-server-to client. The server adds latency to all connections, thus my analogy to the current KYF where the spectator is the host. Other than that, you just repeated what I had already stated.

    Exactly . Right now killers dont suffer one bit cause they have no latency at all wait for them to have it and then we ll see how it goes

  • DeeboDeebo Member Posts: 16
    edited January 2019
    Kaelum said:

    @Deebo you have obviously never worked on an online game before. TimeStamp? It is impossible to use such a mechanism in any fair way. In fact, it it impossible to know the time differences between machines that is less than the latency between the machines. NTP, and other protocols for achieving the same goal, make some good guesses, but they are by no means perfect. Add that to a game that people can easily hack, and you’d have a [BAD WORD] storm.

    You obviously don’t know how TCP and UDP work either. While packets may be sent out in a very specific order, they do not always arrive at the client in that specific order. Some packets take longer than others to arrive, as not all packets take the same route, so trying to calculate anything that is less than the latency between the 2 machines would not be fair to both players.

    Servers will NOT improve the experience for anyone, as latency will increase. Latency now is peer-to-peer, latency with servers is client-to-server-to client. The server adds latency to all connections, thus my analogy to the current KYF where the spectator is the host. Other than that, you just repeated what I had already stated.

    No, I haven't worked on a game before. I do work in the networking field though, and I know that multiplayer games are a long way off from being a 100% fair a 100% of the time. But they can be fairer than DBD currently is.

    A lot of what you say is true, but I find it interesting that rather than try and argue how it could be improved upon, you spend effort trying to put me down in an attempt to discredit me. I think it's plain as day neither you nor I are experts on all things netcode related. If you are, you should look into client-server time stamp interpolation.
  • danph7danph7 Member Posts: 26

    I had the same thing MULTIPLE times today and in the past few days of survivors stuttering around and latency abusing. Its almost impossible to catch them or hit them. I got so pissed I got a video this time around. People will do ANYTHING to win. Doesnt matter if they cheat or dont play fair. AND IT SICKENS ME!

  • Gamer29Gamer29 Member Posts: 26

    Exactly what’s been going on!! Then they have the balls to TBag as if they actually learned the game and escaped on their on merrit

  • yobudddyobuddd Member Posts: 1,412

    Wow this brings back memories! A thread from over a year ago....I had reread everything that we discussed back then, and then it all just came flooding back! 😄

  • KaelumKaelum Member Posts: 975

    Another necro’d thread, but everything that I stated over a year ago, has come to pass. Could things be better? ABSOLUTELY! Will they get better, probably not. The developers working on this do not have the knowledge or expertise. Out with the old, in with the seasoned experts. That’s the only way that this will ever be fixed properly.

    P.S. This goes for the game level designers as well.

  • danph7danph7 Member Posts: 26

    i rather have P2P back...and I thought I would never say something like that...

  • Tylerja1Tylerja1 Member Posts: 11

    I just played my 3rd game where there was terrible lag as a killer.

    Looked like frame rate drop but i doubt that.. probably just lag..

    And on top if the there was a level 2 and lvl 3 survivor who knew that map too damn well honestly. The 3 higher (lower) levels on the team were definetly in a party as i got a invote from them right after i was [BAD WORD] OFF. Its like they were running through me tbt.


    Alass i was just checking to see if lag switching was a real problem on this game.

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