1)That doesn't get rid of the Key.
2)Furthermore, the Key holder can just hide the Key somewhere for later.
3) Equipping Franklin's to pre-emptively have something (something not even good) to deal with the RNG-esque scenario of someone finding a Key in a chest doesn't make sense. What if the team didn't bring anything that makes you want to use Franklin's?
4) You don't need to equip anything to deal with Devour. Small Game or Detective's Hunch is helpful, but not necessary.
Franklin's is not a good counterplay to Keys, and this is not a good comparison.
I have a suggestion about keys found in chests..
They'll always be broken keys, but upon escaping through the gate (or already opened hatch) with a broken key (or any key), it upgrades the key to the next rarity level. So escape with a green broken key, you now have a purple one to bring with you in your next game, if you desire. Escape with the purple one, it's now a pink one for your next game.
But basically, if you find a key it's only usable next game and you have to bring it.
(just a suggestion to go with the topic, I personally have no problems with keys, just with the face they auto open the hatch with a single click, as was mentioned in the first comments)
Ok, I accept your arguments against Franklins but even without it, you can tunnel the key holder and get rid of him, if they found in a chest and they are not in a SWF the rest of the survivors will be clueless about it and you dont need to equip anything to tunnel someone out of the game.
The comparison still stands, both situations are extremely strong, can be dealt by the oposing side if detected in time and both have time consuming requirements to reach full potential.
You do need to tunnel someone out of the game, though, which means you are:
1) Playing into DS if they have it
2) Potentially playing into Borrowed Time if someone else has it
3) Not really pressuring Gens
It also hinges on you actually REALIZING that someone found a Key in the chest, which is not an easy thing to do at all because Keys are tiny, hard to see, and not really something you are actively looking at if you didn't see a Key in the pre-game lobby.
And EVEN with all that, there is still the possibility that another Survivor took note of the Key (this is assuming no SWF; in SWF, they will almost definitely know about the Key the moment it is found) and will keep it in mind in the event the Survivor with it is tunneled. There is still also the scenario where the Survivor chooses NOT to take the Key from the chest OR takes the Key and hides it to better ensure that the Killer doesn't know they have it.
With all that in mind, a Survivor who finds a Key in a chest does not have to play the game any different than normal compared to a Devour Hope user who now has to both actively stay away from Hooked Survivors and play Totem defense once Survivors are aware of its existence to maintain it. For a Key, the game length is just shorter for them (either slightly shorter if no one dies and they only need to skip opening the Gates, almost 20% shorter if someone dies, or almost 40% shorter if two people die). For a Killer with DH, they are now juggling the extra aforementioned tasks to try and gain the benefit of DH that you are referring to (the Moris).
A trade off for DH being always there while finding a key being a 14% chance with Plunderers, the effects (an easier win) are the same even if the roads are different.
What caused this argument was the estatement "Unless killers can do with moris what survivors can do with keys in chests they should be removed", which they can, if its harder or easier or has more or less counterplay is up for each one to decide, I believe DH has a bigger chance of granting free moris than survivors have a chance of getting a key in a chest and use it to full potential (3 or 4 escapes) but I also admit is easier to counterplay DH than a key found in a chest.
And to get a mori you need to get 5 hooks first. (and for them not to rush to unhook in your face)
Keys can be found 10 seconds into the game.
Honestly they're different mechanics, why would changing one absolutely require changing the other?
Yeah, but that’s you. I’m rank 1 one ps4 and it doesn’t take 20 minutes for me. That really isn’t proof if it’s just you.
DH the perk is technically always there. DH the Totem? Absolutely not. Furthermore, whether DH the Totem is/can be dealt with is far more in the hands of the opponent than whether the chest Key is/can be dealt with. The road being different matters a ton in this particular comparison IMO.
I personally think your belief that DH is easier to counterplay contradicts your belief that DH Moris is more likely to happen, which I think presents a big issue with your comparison. If it is easier to stop it, then what makes it more likely to happen than the other thing?
It's easier to stop, but people don't bother doing bones 'cause they have to genrush! Doing bones is a waste of time, didn't you know?!
Its more likely to happen because the odds are higher, you always have a shot at 5 stacks of DH but for keys without plunderer (a ~3% chance, 7% to find a key but it mustnt be a green one) you would need to play 30 games to find one and on top of that in that specific game you still need to fix 5 gens to get a 4 men escape, you have a 3% chance of attempting to use the hatch. 4 or 3 people escaping after finding a key in a chest outside of a SWF is very very rare, as a Killer ive seen it only 2 times, as a survivor only once.
You always have a 100% chance of attempting 5 stacks of DH, Im sure you can get those stacks more than once in 30 games.
And to use that key you need to fix a number of gen firsts, the hatch doesnt spawn if you dont fix one gen more than number of survivors alive, to get a 4 men escape you need 5 gens first, its not finding it and escaping right off the bat and then again, you have a very low chance of finding a key in the first instance.
True. You can find a key right away but might not get the chance to use it at all if you either die first, or can't find the hatch spawn.
Mori is an offering, so of course you can't "find" it during match. They aren't 1 to 1 comparisons, despite both being equally annoying and changing the spawn wouldn't be a meaningful change, either. Keys/hatch should just be reworked.
Saying you have a guaranteed shot of getting to 5 stacks is like saying you have a guaranteed shot of finding a Key in a chest. It doesn't necessarily translate to a higher or lower chance of it happening.
The important thing in my eyes is that with Key, the only thing involved in finding one is RNG. No additional skill input on the Survivor necessary (LESS, in fact, if you aren't specifically aiming for a 4-man Hatch escape), no additional meaningful ways for the Killer to fight against it, no real changes in gameplay/tactics on the Survivor's part both before and after acquiring the Key. Meanwhile, for Devour Hope, there is:
-RNG in hoping the Totem isn't out in the open
-The Killer having to play with an extra caveat to reach that point (stay away from Hooked Survivors
-The Killer having to keep in mind how their opponents are playing to make sure they don't either start hunting for the totem OR end up seeing it by coincidence as a result of moving from one gen to another or a result of being chased in the direction of the Totem. This increases exponentially once Survivors are actually NOTIFIED of the existence of Devour Hope.
Both the Skill level of the Killer and the Survivor are pressured/tested when trying to play with or against Devour Hope. Meanwhile, the aspect of the Survivor being tested when finding a Key is "Can you win the game when the threshold of success is randomly changed in your favor" while the aspect for Killer is "Can you win the game when the threshold of success is randomly changed against your favor and potentially without you even being aware." It's simply not a fair comparison.
Okay. Bad example. Are we gonna remove medkits to make healing take longer?
Fixed it :)
Didn't they buff medkits? Are you saying we should buff Keys? :P
Keys in chests are maybe ok only when they nerf keys. Insta escape for more then one people is ridicolous and unacceptable. Also mori is obviously not good at all now. A valid game is balance, nerf all this game breaking easy win unfun stuff please, fun only for who isnt good at gaming and play toxic with no skill.
Lol yea if you think it that way, you start to think: "why im one vs 4 and them can obtain ultra rares from chests, that aren't really so rare to get, while im just here by myself and i can't get any favor from the entity?"
Noticing that, it would be cool that killers could get something from someone or anything similar to a chest in all maps.
Out of all posts that deserve more attention, this one gets the most?
Are you serious?
Just like many said before if u dont like items use franklins demise.
Franklins is never a waste as long there are chests.
End of the discussion.
This game is age restricted.
Yes. Exactly what I'm saying. Keys will now be buffed to allow you to spawn a single-use hatch upon pressing the secondary action. With a pink addon to allow for that hatch to stay open for 30 seconds without allowing the killer to close it.
It's genius I tell ya.
You might just be the person who will singlehandedly save this game.
I do have one question. Should that key work when so many gens are done, or just be whevener the survivor feels like using it?
As the lobby is in its last five seconds, a Hatch appears, and the person with the Key can open it to let everyone escape before the game starts.
Dead By Daylight speedrunning strats?
Why is there no reply from the devs on this subject? Don't ignore the significants of this subject
Keys need to be removed from chests!
Cause Mori-s are first on the list - you can @ at any dev with that. They both need to be changed together. Also waiting for the insta hatches nerf for some time now.
What I see as possible to change for me is making keys to just work for one person for rare, 2 for ultra rare, 4 only if the gates are opened. Aslo there can be some limitation for the 2 ppl key - for example you have to do at least 4 gens to use it with 2 or even all 5. While the one person key should take atleast 3 gens. For reducing the amount of keys just make is so if you use a key and escape with hatch you cannot save it with any addons anymore. For countering the key user make it so noone else can pick a key but the person who brings it/will disapear if you die/ unless you find it in a chest, BUT now the addon who protects it if killed will work even vs Franklin's. As a solo player I'd be fine with all these changes.
The suggestion for the hatch to take some time top open is not really that good. If its gonna take time to open it it should thake the exact same time to close it for killers. The same way killers are against survivors jumping in their faces in the hatch it is EXACTLY the same when a killer close the hatch in the surviviors faces instantly.
How about: Keys and their useless add ons, and all Moris get thrown into the trash bin. Then - hit delete.
Or: survivors alerted in pre-game lobby when killer has equipped a mori. Survivors in turn bring keys. Hatch spawns at start of the match.
There are an endless number of ways keys/moris could be better in this game (i.e., deincentivized)
Why do the devs ignore this subject? Something needs to be done with keys in chests!
@PatBrutal @Peanits @Almo @not_Queen
I had a game with camping Ebony Mori pig. She was tunneling unhooked survivors hard and without mercy. Never went for the one who unhooked.
It felt so good, when me and Dwight escaped via the hatch (Plunderer's Key). She then started bitching, how OP and Unfair keys are. "Breaking game balance".
I must confess. I tbagged her like a crazy parrot, before i jumped into the hatch, and im proud of it. (I don't usually do this)
Ive used plunderers quite a bit to finish the challenge open hatch. I rarely ever got a key. Maybe one in 5 or 6 games and it wasn't always possible to use them anyways. Its so extremely rare that someone gets a key from a box and makes an escape that I don´t think they need any nerf so far. Once in a while we can accept this. Is this happening to you every other game or? Play 50 games and see how many of them a survivor finds a key and escapes. Im sure its very rare.