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DS needs to get Ruined (or a major rework)



  • Archimedes5000Archimedes5000 Member Posts: 1,589
    edited February 8

    The original purpose was to make OoO live longer.

    But the game has gone a long way and Devs realized that making perks that encourage/help in plays that make the game unfun is not a good thing.

    Right now tunneling is one of the bigger issues and surviviors have chosen DS as a tool for that.

    So basically surviviors decided that they want "ANTI TUNNELING" perk instead of "Pissing off the killer" perk

    The worst thing about current DS is that it has 3 purposes, 1. Anti tunneling, 2. Pissing off the killer, 3. protection while doing objectives. And if you run to the gen, do it in killers face and then go into a locker, you can do 3 of these things at once. 1 perk shouldnt have such power.

  • Warlock_2020Warlock_2020 Member Posts: 1,868

    DS is fine. Seriously, all this whining about DS is sad. In the last 8 matches, I have come across 17 DS survivors. I was hit with it one time at the end of the game. I've 4k'ed in 5 of the matches. 3k'ed in the other 3.

    If you are getting swarmed with DS, maybe you should think about the tunneling. DS is all but an anti-tunnel perk. It is intended to annoy killers who tunnel. It is working as intended.

  • TBfishyTBfishy Member Posts: 28

    Killers always say that survivors have full immunity to being killed, but i think they forget that DS requires you to hit a skillcheck. Id say when im spectating survivors, every one in five or six will miss the skillcheck. Its a small chance, but its there. I think killers only notice when they do hit it. Ive had many killer games where id see after game survivors (that i basically tunneled lol) had ds and missed.

  • SnakeSound222SnakeSound222 Member Posts: 3,009
    edited February 9

    It can bite the window and fling itself over it.

    Lol that is tunneling you entitled Killer main. You're supposed to show the Survivors the way out and wish them good luck in their next trial. It's in the Survivor rulebook. You really think that you're allowed to HOOK the Survivors?

  • Warlock_2020Warlock_2020 Member Posts: 1,868

    Yes, I'm aware of that. That is also a very rare occasion. I've been playing killer for two years. The new version of DS has cost me maybe a handful of games since the change. The old DS cost me scores of games due to getting DS'd four times before the first hook. More times than now, DS hits tunneling killers more than anyone else. The occasional victim is like in the video above. You can point to several perks that screw over players like that though. How NOED that costs the survivor who cleansed 4 totems by himself, but because of circumstances beyond his control, he is the one who dies, not the others who did nothing.

    There are lots of perks we can say create situations like this, as in a no win scenario. That does not betray the fact that DS's most effective use is as an anti-tunnel perk. How many times do killers tell survivors on this forum that if they don't like tunneling, run DS, that is what it is there for. Irony....

  • KurosujiKurosuji Member Posts: 27

    There is nothing wrong with ds as it prevents killers from tunneling and it definitely does not have any effect on toxicity. If you want to be annoyed with a perks that does promote survivor toxicity then it would be object of obsession and head on.

  • Archimedes5000Archimedes5000 Member Posts: 1,589
    edited February 9

    If we all agree that DS is an anti tunnel perk, then there would be no problem if it disabled itself when the survivior starts completing objectives? Unhooking, healing, repairing, etc.

    You are not getting tinneled as a survivior if you are doing these things.

  • KurosujiKurosuji Member Posts: 27
    edited February 9

    Okay then what happens if you play against a stealth killer with nurses or one that just follows you without you noticing to a gen? The perk is situational. I play as killer too, but I don't ever like going after the survivor I just hooked, unless they are the next survivor I find I'll just down them and look for other survivors while waiting for ds to deactivate or it's been a solid minute without finding other survivors. Point is, if you find the survivor that you hooked, then chances are the person that unhooked them is close by, if not healing them or working on a gen next to them. It's only like a minute, if you just anticipate that every survivor has DS, then you'll never get stunned by it.

  • Archimedes5000Archimedes5000 Member Posts: 1,589
    edited February 9

    The thing about stealth killers is that they have stealth, you know. If you let killer follow you all the way to the generator AND you touch the gen before you notice the killer, then sorry, you got outplayed.

    The solution is simple: dont touch the gen unless you are sure you are safe. If you have DS then you have to think about how you are using it (LIKE WITH EVERY OTHER PERK) and not treat it like some sort of immunity shield you can mindlessly use.

  • Dr_LoomisDr_Loomis Member Posts: 2,559

    I personally find Borrowed Time more irritating. But as a survivor, I don't run either.

  • WaffleyumboyWaffleyumboy Member Posts: 6,745

    Yea BT always screws me over when I try to camp. Lately I put on Insidious and suddenly camping is a lot easier :)

  • joeyroujoeyrou Member Posts: 42

    first of all, if a teammate takes you off the hook right infront of me without borrowed time, and you dont have DS. You're going straight back to the hook....If it helps towards a kill/betters my score and will slow down gens as a result I don't care if you cry tunnel or not, because its not my problem your teammates suck.

    secondly, If bvhr would stop spitting on killers I'd feel sympathy towards "fixing DS". If anything it needs a big fat nerf, and as you know anything that they "fix" is actually just a nerf (spirit, nurse, legion as a few examples) So I'd be careful what you wish for

  • luka2211luka2211 Member Posts: 1,387

    Same question tbh. I really like him now and i'm becoming a doc main myself :F he might not have the insane map pressure but his shock is just great for chases(loops i mean),and static blast is just great as a tracking tool.

  • RuncoreRuncore Member Posts: 328

    Totaly agree, some survivor perks needs same care like Ruin got 😊 (aka destroyed)

  • rikaarikaa Member Posts: 81

    "As long as ebonys are, keys will be fine." Same mentality :D But you do not have unlimited moris on the other hand survivors have unlimited chance to do gen rush without any offering. What will happen when moris are consumed or what if you face with really good survivors than you can not even hook some of them... Also there are keys that survivors can bring. DS is perfectly OK. Because even tunnelers consume DS knowingly if the survivor is good he can still make another chase and earn time and also waste the killer's time. I all the time made the chases longer with DS if the killer tunnels me. So I never play without DS. It just gave me another chance if I am being tunneled hardly.

  • Warlock_2020Warlock_2020 Member Posts: 1,868

    I'd agree with that, if DS was not a one time use perk. Part of the problem is the survivor moves away from the hook for 3 seconds and starts healing, but the killer already returned to hook and followed the blood trail and tunnels anyways. Thus your version of DS disengages when self healing starts, but they are tunneles anyway.

    The only thing DS needs is to deactivate within lockers or when gates are opened. Otherwise it is absolutely fine and tunneling killers can whine all they want.

  • crixus006crixus006 Member Posts: 222

    I believe that removing the ruin was a negative adjustment, nobody wants to play as a killer, it takes time to find a game, because there are not many killers and if you find it is a level 10 killer it goes red range survivors

  • neekocheekoneekocheeko Member Posts: 87

    100% agreed. If I load into a match and nobody is the obsession, the killer tunnels the first person they find to death in red ranks. Now we are at a massive disadvantage, and the person that got tunneled had a miserable experience. I don't like running DS cause I find it boring but some days the killers are relentless and I end up putting it on.

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 2,479

    DS is fine as it is.

    Just because some people choose to use it in a risky way and fail at it doesn’t mean everyone is using it this way.

    It is very easy to counter.

  • Archimedes5000Archimedes5000 Member Posts: 1,589

    There is a simple solution to that. If you dont want to be tunneled, just dont heal under hook. First run away to a safe place, then heal. There is nothing hard to do here. Also its kind of a loophole, but it would only apply to self healing, if someone else starts to heal you then it wouldnt disable DS.

  • CallmehandsomeCallmehandsome Member Posts: 237

    I think DS needs rework, becouse it's used as much as ruin was in high ranks.

  • Archimedes5000Archimedes5000 Member Posts: 1,589

    I know this might be a shock, but killers actually tunnel harder if they suspect DS.

    Why? Because they want to trigger it in early game and get it out of the way quickly, so it doesnt bother them in lategame/engame.

    Surprising, I know, but no one wants to have a person on gen for 45+ seconds that cant be caught because they will just hide in a locker and you will have to wait the DS out.

  • BenZ0BenZ0 Member Posts: 1,831


    You mean just like the genrush epedamic right now?

  • Archimedes5000Archimedes5000 Member Posts: 1,589
    • NOED - should be reworked just like DS, these perks basically are the same situation. Counter: cleanse dull totems
    • Whispers - useful only during very early and very late game, other that that its active for the whole game, so it gives you almost no info. Counter: none
    • Infectious Fright - agreed, bit it os easily countered. Counter: spread out.
    • Franklins Demise - highly situational perk, unles survivior has a key or map its almost useless. Counter: none, but items can be picked up
    • Blood Warden - situational perk that requires you to be losing a game, but you have to menage to hook anyway and in a small time window. Useful only with NOED. Counter: 99 gates, destroy NOED, wait out.
    • Haunted Ground - currently almost useless after the Ruin nerf. Counter: dont cleanse hex totems until Devour reaches 3 stacks.
    • Make Your Choice - literally anti camping and anti tunneling killer perk. Counter: none (or force killer to camp)
    • Rancor - gives informations when gens are completed and allows to kill obsession in the endgame, but REVEALS YOUR LOCATION TO OBSESSION. Counter: just use information Rancor gives you and avoid the killer.
    • Stridor - situational perk that is not worth the perk slot, only useful on Spirit. Counter: Iron Will, wider looping.

    Out of all these perks only like 3 are really crutches, (NOED, BW, Stridor on Spirit) and its not like they have no counters.

    Now killer combos:

    • Blood Warden + NOED - the only combination where BW is useful, NOED needs rework, but can be cleansed, this combo is not that good, you dedicate 2 perk slots to gamble on a losing game...
    • Enduring + Spirit Fury - good combo, but 2 perk slots are used just to counter pallet stuns. Just drop pallets early like you do with Doctor or Billy and use windows more.
    • Infectious Fright - just stay out of TR, spreading out is more effective anyway.
    • Whispers - you really are overestimating it. All it does is tell you if there are ANY surviviors NEARBY. This is not accurate at all, useful only to find first survivior, last survivior and to patrol Exit Gates.
    • Im All Ears - not sure why its good with anything, but Quick and Quiet completly counters it. Also you can bait it at the start of a chase, it has a long cooldown. And its not good on every killer

    Survivior perks:

    • Dead Hard: bugged with servers, but so are killers attacks, you often miss because of that too. Can be baited, but it also forces killer to not lunge and wait it out, sometimes letting you get to a pallet/window. Also you can DH through Bear Traps without triggering them...
    • DS: its not once, there are 4 surviviors in a match and everyone could have it. Slugging is often disadvantageous and is countered by Unbreakable. Eating early requires you to tunnel someone, wastes you time and breaks pressure.
    • Unbreakable: Again, once for every survivior, so 4 times total. And again, synergy with DS
    • Adrenaline: basically survivior version of NOED only a bit more fair. Allows surviviors to escape way easier, can be countered ONLY by NOED (that can be cleansed) and its an unfair perk. Perk that can only be countered by a toxic perk... This tells somethinh about Adrenaline.
    • Sprint Burst: great exhaustion perk, allows you to gain a lot of distance when found, helps you escape after getting unhooked. 99ing it allows you to completely outplay the killer and extend the chase greatly.

    This isnt as simple as you are saying, both sides have some broken perks, this means both sides need to be fixed, not that none of them need.

  • ClickyClickyClickyClicky Member Posts: 2,677

    and there are some like myself that don't tunnel because of DS. If I bump into someone who just got off hook I slug, I've been doing ok so far.

  • Archimedes5000Archimedes5000 Member Posts: 1,589

    I also do that most of the time.

    But so many people here say that to counter DS you have to "eat it early" and that basically requires tunneling.

    So if I dont want to be DSed by a guy opening an exit gate/ doing gens right after getting unhooked (well 50s is not that right after), then I HAVE to tunnel him early... This makes no sense...

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