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It's time to make Hillbilly a 110% killer.

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  • AAAAAAAAAA Member Posts: 558

    Title: "We should give Hillbilly 110% movement."

    OP: "Why does everyone think I want to nerf Billy?"

    I get your complaint, I've used clickbait titles here before (title: "SHUT UP ABOUT THE STATS" point: the stats aren't the ultimate authority on everything) but I think they just attract the wrong kind of attention. People who actually want a discussion will read threads about subjects they are interested in, making demands or proclaiming controversial opinions as facts will just attract people who want an excuse to be mad.

    As it is, I did read your post and I agree, if Hillbilly is 115 then Deathslinger has no reason to be 110.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227
    edited February 2020

    Actually if you are guessing you are doing it wrong.

    She has limited options. If you know how fast she actually is in phase, and how long she can phase, you can reliably predict what she is going to do and bait her into making the wrong move.

    The only reason stuff like the stand still trick works is because people guess instead of looking at what is actually possible. When she does this trick, assume she is both standing there and phasing. Then you can consistently counter play her. I literally ran from a Spirit for 4 gens the other day because I understood that 1) she can't vault during phase, 2) she can't hear me (I had Iron Will), 3) she can't see where I am if I walk so long as I don't walk in the grass patches, 4) she can only come from this side or that side and will appear at X specific time after she starts phasing base on how fast I know her to be. What I would do would be to run in one direction, then walk back in the other direction or away from the loop entirely. I would make it appear as if I ran around the corner of the loop when in actuality I backtracked and then just straight up walked away from the loop. I would also drop pallets early knowing she would have to go around them AND knowing that when she did she wouldn't be able to continue chasing me with phase, so I knew I was safe to keep running for the next loop. Even if she predicted I would drop the pallet, she isn't fast enough to catch up going the long way around.

    And I've been on the receiving end as well. I consider myself a strong Spirit player, but a few days ago I had a game on Ward with this Steve that was pretty much doing the same thing I would do, and he was INSANELY difficult to catch. I even had Stridor and he was able to run from me for 5 times longer than any other survivor in the trial. I've almost lost games as Spirit exclusively because of these types of players. They are rare, because majority of survivors just make really stupid decisions against the Spirit, but they exist. It's players like that which prove that Spirit, even good ones, can be outplayed consistently. Really the only reason I was able to catch the Steve was because he eventually ran to a jungle gym with no pallet and I was able to just brute force him down with phase.

    People don't like her because outplaying her requires creativity which most people lack, or at least lack the desire to do. No other killer requires you to be creative with your movement and tactics. No other killer requires you to think on the fly and react to the player instead of just following basic patterns. Saying that losing to Spirit is not satisfying is just a cop-out honestly, because it's nothing to do with that at the end of the day. It's that she requires actual thought to outplay and no one wants to admit they don't think during a chase.

  • DwightOPDwightOP Member Posts: 2,328

    If Hillbilly becomes 110 I'm out of playing killer. I will just main survivor till I'm bored and stop playing at all. Hillbilly is already really good beatable. Make him weaker and he can't stand a chance

  • CoderCoder Member Posts: 690

    1.1k views. It was worth the clickbait, however I understand why only half of the people commenting were talking about Deathslinger's speed and the other half was like "waaaaat? you wanna nerf my billy boi??? how dare you you n00b rank20 survivor!!"

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227
    edited February 2020

    I've watched it. He is clearly in the category of "lacking creative thinking".

    Just because you play the game a lot, just because you are good at the game, does NOT mean you are a good creative thinker. There are pro gamers that completely lack this skill, the reason they are pro's is because they play a lot and have a lot of experience and practice. But come at them with a new tactic or an off-meta character in a fighter and you will see them struggle.

    It is an innate skill that you can do, or you can't. And it's not easy to learn. Impossible for some people honestly.

  • WeederickWeederick Member Posts: 1,065

    Its a circle of life in dbd to complain about billy at first, then get good and call him balanced when you're experienced.

    You dont have to believe me, but it will happen to you too. Once you're good at survivor, billy becomes fair. Until then, you will get chainsawed a lot.

    Billy isn't the prime example of balance since release for no reason. He is overly effective in the lower ranks, but thats where git gud comes into play.

  • CoderCoder Member Posts: 690

    Sorry, but BS.

    Spirit is poorly designed, it doesn't matter how creative you are (or you think you are).

    There's a concept in game design called "agency", which is granting the player the ability to make good and informed decisions.

    Imagine playing Super Mario Bros... and one level is a straight line of tiles where, randomly, they might fall if you step on them and you die. No warning, all tiles look the same. You might think it's a matter of creativity, or that if you jump all the time until you reach the end is the best strategy since you reduce the probability of falling, but still it won't prevent you from stepping into the wrong tile and die. And it feels cheap, it doesn't feel like you did anything wrong to be punished that way, or, if you passed the level, It's thay you're smarter than everyone else and they're nubs, it's just bad level design. It's trial an error, guessing and some luck, all things you must avoid in game design.

    That's what happens to spirit, you don't have visual or auditory clues of what she's doing, you have to guess based on how spirit play, how you'd play the loop, how you've seen other players play the loop, etc... but you might still guess wrong, no matter how creative or smart you are.

    Now I know what you're thinking to yourself "you and oh tofu are just nubs, I'm so more creative and smarter than you guys, git gud" but you'll be wrong, and even if you are smarter than everyone else, it doesn't mean anything, Spirit will still be by textbook definition, a badly designed killer.

  • DrVeloxcityDrVeloxcity Member Posts: 300

    Exposed should not be put into his base kit. Maybe he needs more range or the ability to pull survivors over pallets. If he can pull survivors over pallets, he'll instantly be moved up a couple tiers because that'll help him win/negate potential chases.

    I feel this is the change he needs.

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 5,438

    How about just take away bloodlust...

    This would solve a lot on these silver platter killers.

  • 28_stabs28_stabs Member Posts: 1,474

    For 4 years Billy was ok. What went wrong? oh, yes, devs nerfed Nurse and Spirit. xD Survivors are hungry for more nerfs.


  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227
    edited February 2020

    1) I know what agency is, I worked in game dev and game design.

    2) You're just parroting what Scott said, and I'm not saying Scott was wrong but... his complaints aren't exactly about agency, they're about the difficulty of playing against her. They are not the same, she is the type of character you have to really be on point even against an average player. It's like any game with a really strong character, if you don't try your best you probably won't succeed. And most people don't like to try that hard when they play this game, and if they do they get frustrated by it.

    3) If you know how fast she is and how far she can go during phase you will know that her options are limited. Knowing that, and based on the situation there are safe and risky moves you can make to avoid her. People seem to have this idea that she is infallible but she's not. You have to see what she can actually do, then take the approach that you think is best. You can call that a "guess" but it's not as much of a guess as it is calculating risk V rewards.

    4) I never said Oh Tofu is bad, or anyone is bad. I said it takes a specific type of skill which most people lack, regardless of how much they play or how good they are. Again there are pro players that lack this skill that have clear difficulty playing against lesser skilled players that can do this.

    5) Fact is Spirit can be counter played. She just can. I have done it. I've had it done to me, and I might not be the absolute best killer but I am definitely a strong Spirit player. It's not easy but it can be done. Just because you or even Tofu have trouble with this doesn't mean she is broken or has no counter play.

  • MegMain98MegMain98 Member Posts: 2,821

    I’ve played against Spirit. I’ve countered a Spirit and won against Spirit. Yes, she can be counterplayed but she has a lack of consistent counterplay and isn’t pleasant to face, it’s unsatisfying. That’s why people DC against her and don’t try because they want to know what the opposing player is doing. Like Huntress for example. You don’t have to guess when she is throwing a hatchet.

    ^ That isn’t my exact opinion on Spirit but that is what I read a bunch of “Spirit haters” saying.

    Knowing how fast the Spirit phases or how long she can phase is debatable. What if she has duration add-ons? Or speed add-ons? She’s not always going to be the same speed and phase for the length of time you think she is going to.

    Thinking “creatively” is a fancy way of saying that you’re trying to predict her movements AKA a guess. A guess that is tied into the favor of the Spirit. I can try to predict the Spirit’s movement because I know what most Spirit players think. I used to play as her a lot. But she has a bunch of cues as to your location. You have none on her except soft footsteps.

    Although some streamers exaggerate her strength and say she has NO counterplay. It’s pretty annoying to hear that over and over again. To the point where they are just complaining for sake of complaining.

    My opinion on Spirit is that she’s in a balanced place and needs no changes but I know how unpleasant she is to face. I don’t mind facing a Spirit, but when I get “outmindgamed” it’s just a big “Darn” moment.

  • Swiftblade131Swiftblade131 Member Posts: 2,023

    Didn't know looping Billy was that hard...


    Feels bad

  • xllxENIGMAxllxxllxENIGMAxllx Member Posts: 923
    edited February 2020

    The first part of the video show the guy doing flick with a few mistakes. He also have a nancy looping him a bit. Flickbilly is counterable by changing loops.

    This one show both side POV and all survivors make the same mistake to stay at loops. Which is why survivors are making threads like this one in the first place. As long survivors have to do efforts and other things then loops it's a nerf hammer time.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,807

    Not God loops actually. He's one of the Killers that can counter long loops like those.

  • WRussoWWRussoW Member Posts: 715

    Let's adress the issue with survivors fixing gens way to fast when they stick to the gens first. If you immediantly find, down and hook survivors every 30-40, they're still able to start all gens and escape all together even without toolboxes. You freaking know that "putting pressure" is not the issue here when survivors just go down in a moment and you're still unable to at least get 2 kills without them messing up by the end.

    Anyways, once I see or hear the "hear me out", I know it's not gonna be anything worth checking. It can't be a coincidence.

  • kidmaxxkidmaxx Member Posts: 57

    These hit post make me so angry lol.

    EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT YOU'RE DOING

    Stop being whiny and get good.

  • Devil_hit11Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 1,551
    edited February 2020

    Imagine if huntress hatchets could only apply deep wound and never down you and you had only 1 hatchet. That's this killer right now. I think he'd still be pretty average even with that add-on base kit without massive drawback. I just think he is going to be easy to bully without much threat level. If they want to make really strong, than you would make it so that hook takes 1 health state meaning he could down injured survivors even if the pallet is dropped. I think that would be a bit much if he could hurt people through pallets though but who knows, maybe that would justify his 110% movement speed.

    Post edited by Devil_hit11 on
  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227

    By thinking creatively I'm talking more about making yourself less predictable than trying to predict the Spirit. The thing is "thinking creatively" for most players means slow vaulting the pallet back into her face which super predictable.

    Like you don't have to predict "she will do exactly this so I will do this to counter" you have think "she can do this, that, or this other thing, so I could do this which counters all 3 safely, or maybe this which counters 2 and is more risky but then I gain more distance". As long as you make HER mess up she doesn't catch you, and it's very easy to mess up as Spirit. Come out of phase just 8m too far and that's another 15 seconds of chase before she can phase again.

    And that's the problem, people try to beat EXACTLY what she is going to do instead of playing the odds in their favor and just do what they can to avoid the things she could POSSIBLY do. There is a massive difference between doing those 2 things. One you are putting all your eggs onto 31 black, the other you just bet red and have better odds but then a lower reward.

  • SunderMunSunderMun Member Posts: 2,791

    Lmao the number of people who think the OP actually wants Billy to be nerfed is depressing...

  • ClaudettesUncleClaudettesUncle Member Posts: 29

    And his curves are still broken on console, cant wait until they finally nerf him or make him similar to oni.

  • djsponge10djsponge10 Member Posts: 349

    Let’s also make it that hillbilly has to find fuel for his chainsaw in the corners of the map because he’s too much pressure. I will be on a gen for so long and when I get to 95% a billy just comes out of nowhere in blazing speed!! He shouldn’t have so much map pressure ITS BORING!!!! if I can’t have the satisfaction of completing gens without being chased the game is boring as hell! Boring boring boring uhh Freddy boring boring boring geez BHVR plz nerf billy I hate facing a GOD BILLY every 10th Time I ever find a billy. Me and my 3 butt buddies get so annoyed when we get map pressured! It’s soooooooo BORING

  • CoderCoder Member Posts: 690

    Don't just read the title of the thread and type furiously and answer. This is not about nerfing billy. Do us all a favor and read the thread, or at least the first message. Thanks.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227

    No. Probability and risk calculation.

    Stop trying to guess exactly what she will do. See what she potentially can do and do what would mitigate each option simultaneously.

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