Every killer when box changes go live...
MiniPixels
Member Posts: 528
I will endure the sabo changes to nerf toolboxes any day of the week.
Also Deathslinger got me really hype.
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MiniPixels
Member Posts: 528
I will endure the sabo changes to nerf toolboxes any day of the week.
Also Deathslinger got me really hype.
Comments
Initial gens are going to pop faster with the “nerf”. Less total charges, but faster. It’s not really a nerf
Except toolboxes got buffed.
Honestly, I know its technically a nerf, but it combined with not losing items just means its a much more inviting thing to just bring.
AND you will be able to just use it for all its worth.
So yeah idk, I think it will be a much worse situation.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but toolboxes actually got BUFFED.
I might actually started using overwhelming presence now.
It's just one more thing that you have to adapt and overcome.
Not really, any yellow or higher rank survivor used the item until it had almost no charges so they could escape with it, most people didnt lose their toolboxes unless they were killed or got Franklin'd with almost no charges.
I know, but its just a lot more casual now I feel, run in with a toolbox, rush part of the first gen, finish it and move on.
Just a quick nice boost with no extra effort of having to pay attention to the charges.
It is though. Speed got buffed by like 33%, charges got nerfed by 66-75%
1.33×0.33= 0.44
So now toolboxes will let you speed up over 2 times less progress than before.
No they dont. Toolbox will be 2 times weaker than before
Killer mains don't respond to facts. Don't waste their time with such things.
Pretty much. As with most survivor "nerfs", there's a huge trade off to compensate most of the time. Compared to killer nerfs which just sees their things get completely gutted. Ruin is the most recent example. It just got gutted. No trade offs. Even worse than gutted because any possibility of synergy was removed as well. The ruin nerf was a debuff to a few killer perks, really.
That being said...I still think the toolbox thing is an overall nerf. The issue I have is the sabo changes. The fact that you can sabo a hook in less time than it takes for the killers hit cooldown is absolute BS. Whoever thought of that needs to be fired.
Those devs better wake up and realize that killers need to exist for their game to exist.
What? The toolbox changes weren't even good and the gens go too fast with or without toolbox.
Gen speed isn't the issue. It never was.
The issue is map balance.
I don't understand this blatant falsehood. The issue isn't map balance; the issue is that three Survivors can be on generators at the same time while you chase one. Regardless of the map, three efficient gen-pushers can pound insane portions of the objective in the time it takes for the Killer to hook one person who sucks at looping. Gen times are insane, no matter the map.
If you think it's false in any way, you're bad at killer.
If gen speed was the issue, there wouldn't be maps that are more balanced than others.
That is the most hilariously terrible argument I've seen in my life.
"If you think it's false in any way, you're bad at killer."
Not even going to bother with this non-argument.
"If gen speed was the issue, there wouldn't be maps that are more balanced than others."
That is so inconceivably stupid. Simply because gen times are independent from map balance does not mean map balance is not existent. Of course a map with several god windows and safe pallets like Haddonfield is going to be safer than a map with claustrophobic LoS-blockers and nonexistent loops like Hawkins. But just because you get a more "balanced" map doesn't mean that gen times aren't going to be an unbalanced issue. Objective time and map design are separate fields of balance; they aren't the same, they merely intersect. Gens still have the same silly base speed on Chapel as they do Mother's Dwelling; map size is not the primary determinant; it is merely an influence—a significant influence, but merely an influence nonetheless. It is not the primary factor in this game's terrible balance; that would go to how fast gens go at base when Survivors are any semblance of efficient with their objective.
It's not a non argument. Because I'm right. I'm not the only one who thinks this. Gen speeds have never been the issue. But hey, if all you can do is call what I say stupid, that shows you have no coherent response. Run along now.
No the issue is gen speed.
I guess your eyes just chose not to visually register the extensive paragraph explaining why you're making a fool of yourself?
"I'm not the only one who thinks this."
Yeah, and some people weren't the only ones to think old Nurse was OP. Some people weren't the only ones to think old Legion didn't break the game. The entire community thought old Freddy was the worst Killer in the game when the people who mained him all said, "No, you people are idiots; Freddy requires methods of thinking that you refuse to adopt and you simply can't play him right." Just because a lot of people think something doesn't make it correct.
Toolboxes are still on the same level of usefulness, just in a different way. Killers won't rejoice.
I read the paragraph, and like this current post of yours, it's all one giant backhanded insult, which is all you seem to know how to do. Zero credibility lies with you because of the way you conduct yourself. Incapable of a debate without insults. Even when I've been respectful. Calm your proverbial #########, and perhaps I'll humor you. For now, all you seem to be able to do is throw around insults, which shows me you have no actual idea what you're on about.
That is proven completely false purely based on the fact that there are maps that are more killer or survivor sided. Play an M1, low mobility killer on Mother's Dwelling, then do it against the same survivors on Lery's. Tell me it's a "gen speed issue". Of course, this assumes you're at least half decent at killer, and judging by the "no gen speed r teh issue omg" statement, I'd say that's probably far from the truth.
Sorry bud - you can't win this one.
Gen speed is too fast and thats a straight up fact bro. Quit being delusional. You can't win this one.
Your first response to my protests towards your initial statement was “You’re just bad at Killer.” When I presented an actual grounds as to my point and called you out for not responding with a proper argument, you replied with, “Well other people agree with me so you’re wrong and I’m right. Run along now.”
You have been more insulting and less mature than me this entire time while also not bothering to make a real argument, which I have already done. The only person losing credibility here is you.
Consider this. If maps were smaller, if loops were looked at (so you didn't have an infinite move into a jungle gym move into another jungle gym, for instance), a killer could more effectively patrol gens. More gen pressure, more pressure on survivors. A killer should conceivably be able to hit nearly every gen on a map in 80 seconds, not take 80 seconds to cross a map. Even M1 killers would be in a better place if they could hit all areas of the map easier than currently.
That doesn't mean gen times aren't an issue. Having three or four survivors on a gen should be looked at. But the base gen time of 80 seconds? That's fine in my book. Holding M1 for longer is just boring.
Maps like that do exist in the form of the Chapel and Hawkins. But guess what? Even on those maps, if the Survivor gets one Dead Hard for distance off or finds one lucky pallet spawn—if the chase is extended even a few seconds beyond optimal time, regardless of if it was a mistake on the Killer’s part or mere RNG working in the Survivor’s favor—the amount of the objective shaved off by three Survivors who know how to hold M1 skyrockets. And if you abandon that chase to go pressure the gens? The Survivor you abandoned will just do gens themselves. It’s a lose-lose situation. The simple fact that Killers can’t be in 4 places at once means that Survivors can strip their pressure with even basic gen efficiency.
I don’t think anyone in their right mind wants gen times to be extended. It’s a known fact that when you’re not being chased, Survivor is an M1 simulator. Anyone worth their salt who thinks objective times are the issue would much rather have a second objective added—not a secondARY objective; totems are a pathetic excuse of a diversion—a second objective.
One thing i wanna syo to that section:
the question is: wihitch killer are ouy playing?
oneshot killers are very strong, also mobility killers with high range.
just 2 facts gens without toolbox
1 survivor: 80 seconds per gern
3 survivors: 33 seconds.
this is absolutly too fast. with toolboxes they are faster. if you play against a very well survivor you need 2-3 minutes to down him. in this time the gens will fly away. Old ruin was the only slowdown perk to givte you time. now it´s useless and i have many problems as killer main to get a 4 k without playing freddy.
so they really have to change something. for example if a gen is done he could be active for 7 minutes. after that time it could be offline and has to be for 10-20%. that would be very good in my opinion.
for example 120seconds per gen solo, 100 second 2 survivors, 80 seconds 3 and 60 second all 4.
what do you think about that ?
@Demogordon_Ramsay A bad chase isn't on the gen times, though, that's just chase mechanics. That's where perk builds, map awareness, and pressure come into play.
Again, I'm not saying gen/objectives shouldn't be looked at, but it's maps that are the overall issue. If you could tone those down and rework tiles, you would get a much better picture at gen times.
Can someone draw me a picture of trapper trying to fit all the perks killers need to use to balance the game already, and then a BHVR employee coming in, and just dumping Franklins, Brutal Strength, Hangman's Trick, Infectious Fright, and Knock Out on him.
Even if you get chases done quickly, efficient Survivors simply do gens too fast for you to get things done quick enough.
Here, some math:
Let’s make the most average scenario possible: Everyone spawns in. Two Survivors spawn next to one gen and get to work on it immediately. The other two take ten seconds to find other gens, and it takes the Killer ten seconds to find one of them. The Survivor gets hit through a safe pallet they threw down and runs away while the Killer is stunned and then breaks the pallet, which takes about 4.5 seconds without Enduring or Brutal. If the Survivor ran in a straight line, taking into account the movement slow and ramp-up from stopping to chuck a pallet, they get 15 meters away before the Killer can move again. At a rate of 0.6 meters per second catch-up time, it would take 22.5 seconds to catch up when factoring in bloodlust. After 15 of those 22.5 seconds are done, the Survivor vaults a window. Let’s assume the Survivor is dumb, and the Killer can clearly see them trying to crouch next to the window. It would take about 2 seconds to get to the window, 1.7 to vault through, 2-3 to turn and hit the Survivor, 3 to pick them up, and let’s say 8 to get them to a hook.
Between finding the Survivor, getting a hit, breaking a pallet, catching up, downing them, and taking them to a hook, it takes 46.2 seconds to get one hook on a Survivor who isn’t good at looping. In 46.2 seconds, the two Survivors will have finished working on their gen and will have begun moving towards a different one, and the third who took a while to find his will have put 36.2 seconds of time into it, almost half of its repair progress.
Without taking into account prove thyself, toolboxes, great skill checks, or anything else that could speed up gen times, one-and-a-half gens will have been finished in the time it took to find, down, and hook one Survivor who sucks at looping. Despite that one Survivor being excruciatingly bad at the game, a full third of the Survivor objectives will have been completed in the time it took the Killer to complete one-twelfth of theirs.
Now imagine the Survivor is actually good at looping. Imagine they have Dead Hard and can get a lucky second chance pallet throw off. Imagine if you’re someone like Huntress or Myers and have low map traversal at the start, or you’re someone like Hag or Trapper and have to spend time setting up. Imagine if the Survivors bring builds that let them speed up gen times.
Completely disregarding map design, it quickly becomes obvious that gens by themselves are too easy to do and the Killer will struggle to establish pressure against good M1-holders.
I’m not saying map design isn’t an issue. I’m not saying that at all. But I think it’s quite apparent that gen times are by far the greater of two evils here.
They have to make up buffs so they can continue feeling bad for themselves. Sheesh.