It's not immunity. Slug them and they aren't doing gens. It's not hard.
This goes both ways. I play both killer and surv and I rarely see killers complain. It’s always survs complaining about noed or other crap
I almost exclusively play killer. Easily 90+% of my games are killer. Despite this, my survivor rank is somehow higher than my Killer Rank. I've never pulled off a single DS (brought it a couple times, never even got the skillcheck so decided not to bother again). The response to almost every sticky situation is "Hold M1 on something". You don't have to be good to win as a survivor.
The issues, realistically, are that:
1) Ranking is broken. Survivors are able to rank up without escaping, while killers can often safety or even depip (especially Plague, who can almost never get gold in chaser or malicious) on a 4k.
2) There are more good survivors than good killers. A quick look at the survivors a green rank plays against in 20 games will show you that about a third of them or more are red ranks - players they should only rarely play against, and even than only one at a time. There are no high ranked killers for these high ranked survivors to play against so they're being placed against mediocre/casual players.
3) Survivors are much more able to bring powerful tools every game. The upcoming change to addons will somewhat change this, but survivors get to keep items on an escape, where killers guarantee they're losing everything they bring. Survivors also have a good chance of gaining an item if they didn't bring one, or upgrading one if they brought a poor one. Keys that can unlock hatch (which, if used when 1 player died and 1 gen is left, does more than 4 BNPs at the same time, instantly, 8 BNPs if 2 gens are left and 2 players died), come in pink AND purple rarities, and can be pulled DURING A GAME from chests. They're also much harder to see coming than Moris (the obvious "secret" offering, where the only secret other than a Mori is ACTIVELY DETRIMENTAL to the killer.)
Realistic solutions to these problems are:
1) Reworking the chaser and malicious emblems to not punish killers for using their powers, or going against survivors who didn't heal enough
2) Giving some overall buffs to killers, or nerfs to generator speeds, so as to bring the average skill levels for survivors and killers closer together
3) Follow through with the planned changes to addons, reduce the spawned chests to 2, and remove dull keys from future bloodwebs.
I do agree with you that certain perks are unpredictable. For your own definition I think Unbreakable belongs more on the unpredictable tier and not the uncountarable. I never take the chance of slugging for to much time just in case a sneaky Unbreakable is on play.Ever since the change I’ve been hit with DS like 3 times while the pre-nerf basically every game so it have been very helpful for me so to each their own on that regard.
One time I was dribbling a survivor I knew had pre-nerf DS, third time I did it a Meg ninja blinded me and I literally just wanted to throw my controller through the window 😂.
No grudge hold against Space Coconut. He just sometimes comes off as annoying and whiny when trying to explain certain stuff. In the second chance video for example he just sounds like he doesn’t how to counter them at all. And his gameplay with the trapper was pretty painful to watch. Surprising he managed to get the 4K.
SWF is more of the issue but the game is even unbalanced against 4 "good" solo queue players, SWF just exacerbates the issue even more.
How do you accept the issue but are also confused why they come to the forums to complain? When there's a balance problem with the game people will complain in order to bring it to the devs attention to try and get things fixed. That seems like a pretty normal scenario to me.
"there's so many killers who can just one shot a survivor."
There isn't that many, and most of them have substantial requirements to do so.
"Mori without even hooking them."
I have no idea what you're talking about here, this literally isn't a thing. The only thing allowing this is a DH at 5 token...if the team really left it up for that long they misplayed hard. Not to mention that is an extremely niche scenario that rarely ever happens. This isn't even worth bringing up.
"It's like all killers just expect to get 4 kills easy every game."
I don't get why people like to default to this made up scenario. This is not what anyone is asking for at all. Especially seeing as you already admitted yourself that there are indeed balance issues which makes their complaint valid. How does a valid complaint lead to "killers just expect to get 4 kills easy every game"? I don't see how that is the logical conclusion we come to based on the information we have agreed on here.
"Toxic survivor behaviour begins with the killer...from my POV anyways."
I disagree entirely. You could have zero campers/tunnelers etc and it would still be happening. They play toxic because they are bored with the base game because it is currently too easy as survivor and they're trying to make the game more entertaining. They are able to get away with it because they know they are the power role and have the extra time to goof around because they aren't the ones on the tight time clock, the killer is.
Not even remotely. They are the majority of the games.
I'm not strictly referring to bad setups from rng, I'm also including the myriad of maps that are extremely bad for killer simply because of their size which inhibits the majority of the killer roster from maintaining pressure to any significant degree.
I certainly hope map reworks are coming. And yeah I'm tired of seeing the same boring posts over and over again about how oppressed killers are or how they run into SWF deathsquads every game. The cherry on top is the "I'm quitting the game, your survivor queues just got longer!" posts. It's so old.
As for Ruin changes vs the maps, yeah I agree. You don't need Ruin to win games if you know how to pressure gens. You're not able to do that on a lot of maps though, so if they resolve that issue it'll be good.
Yeah there are a lot of annoying survivor perks, but we all know why BT and DS are so strong. BT needs to be as strong as it is, but I will admit DS is obnoxious at times. There's so many ways survivors abuse it past its intended use of anti-tunneling. It's better than dealing with the old DS, yeah, but it probably does need some adjustments
With your own definition I think Unbreakable belongs more on the unpredictable category and not uncounterable. But I do understand that when it works it can be SUPER STRONG, but if you don’t really slug for that much then the perk is entirely wasted. If it was straight up uncounterable than they would just get there ass up every game.
I remember this one time I was dribbling a survivors who I knew had pre-nerf DS, mid dribbling a Meg ninja blinded me and managed to get the save. I just wanted to throw the controller through the window. Ever since the rework, I have been hit with it about three times. Two times cause I tunneled close to the endgame and one time because I added to much pressure. So it has helped me but to each their own.
Plus now it’s much more counterable since it feels that it activates cause of your way of playing the game and not because they just want to. Sure you could dribble them but It could create a huge problem if some smart ass decided to blind you mid- dribble.
A comment bitching and moaning how original.
OP complained about people using old ruin and then says devour hope is a good alternative lmfao.
The issue is that there is only a “ranked” mode
A comment bitching and moaning about me pointing out bitching and moaning lol try harder.
Can we delete this thread in the same way? No matter is reported anyway. Seriously, how much can cry come from a survivor who supposedly plays in the higher ranks. If you cry that the killer kills you so often, you should really uninstall the game, because that means nothing more than the killer is superior to you and you are just bad. The task of the killer is to collect points by killing Survivorn on the hook and then it doesn't give a ######### how he kills someone. Your survivor also does everything possible to survive and achieve your goal: Infinite Loops while the other surviving generators repair. Or body blocking, to make it difficult for the killer to achieve points, up to DC if the killer was superior to you. Up to perks that numb the killer at lockers or give the survivor a speed boost. Honestly stop complaining, you noob survivor.
I am new to this game and let me tell you. The amount of messages I get when I camp when running 1 perk to farm blood points. The messages come, mostly, from purples and reds.
I don't care what perks you are running. I don't care that you camp. Hell, baiting with a hook or a downed survivor is brilliant. Play how you want. Adapt. That's what this game is about. Not, how to make it easier, crying over better balance, but feeling that frustration. If the game was easy why would you play?
The elitist mentality has to go. I've asked a number of ways to start grinding blood points and all i hear is...get these 6 killers to 40 to teach their perks and you can only do that if you don't suck.
I'm ok with it. And I get my butt kicked regularly.
I play mainly killer and disagree with your DS, BT, and ruin points. Running DS and BT is a waste vs me. I don't camp, I don't tunnel. Your BT will not proc all match and you might get a chance to DS me if you are one of 2 left during EGC. I don't often see EGC though as I 3 to4k 80 percent of my matches.
The 20% of the time I let my wife drag me into survivor play is always filled with camping and tunneling killers who cry about gen rush after the match. They ignore the fact they gave up all map pressure to focus on one survivor or camp. They cry about DS or BT yet they are camping and going for the just unhooked survivor.
I hate running DS but feel forced to run BT just to give other players a chance. This is why I hate playing survivor. I prefer to throw together random builds and play.
Yes gen speeds are a problem, but it does not need a nerf. Survivors need a rich BP-reward second objective that feeds into the gens. That will pull them off gens, reward good BP and make life easier for killers. Map size needs work as well. I prefer Trapper and hate when I get large maps.
Op, you're straw manning and assuming all killers care about, complain about the same things, or play the same.
I main pig....I don't really care about ruin. I don't care about BT. I don't care about DS, and smaller maps would BOOST THEEE ######### out of me.
My spirit on the other hand, Cares about ruin, doesn't care about BT, cares about DS, and does better on larger maps.
My plague, doesn't care about ruin, doesn't care about BT, cares about DS, and doesn't care about map size.
My wraith, cares about ruin, cares about BT, cares about DS, and cares about map size.
We're not the same, even within ourselves we're not the same. Until you understand that you won't get the full picture. Every survivor plays the same and has the same problems....killers on the other hand....you'll hear about 20 different issues from 20 different killers all valid from the perspective of that killer but invalid on others....think about that.
Michael Myers has a addon that allows you to Mori before even hooking a survivor
I really don't think Gen speeds should be the answer to balance the game better for killer, since making this post I have been playing a lot of Killer games and can actually understand peoples replies on here abit better, regardless I haven't wanted to come on here to complain to the devs about why they should be "thanking me" for playing killer...I don't get why Killer mains are being so annoyed just move on to the next game, I'll have a game where I'll have a SWF team and then the next game it's a EZ 4k.
I have been getting gen rushed a lot easier lately but that's only due to certain maps being bigger or having better loops than others so I don't think gen speeds need nerfed the maps are in desperate need of a rework. Look at the new lerys, tbh i couldn't tell you the last time i escaped on that map because of how better balanced it is for the killer!
If I could change anything on this game it would be to remove generators alltogether, nothing bores me more as killer or survivor than the generator mechanic behind this game. There should be more interesting solutions for the survivors to escape without it feeling so time based for both the killer and survivor if that makes sense.
You are aware that survivors complain just as much if not more then killers. You used killers complaining about ruin as an example, but survivors were complaining more about ruin way before killers were.
Name checks out
Every killer who camps Is trash and low skilled. I dont ever camp nor of I rarely tunnel. And stay red and purple ranks. Camping is only viable if you see other survivors around that hook. I respect every killer that wrecked is without camping or tunneling and have faced quite a few who can. My husband is a rank 1 every single season and never camps not even end game and gets 30k many games and mainly 3 to 4ks. Killers are definitely the whiner base. And always have been.
BT doesn't need a nerf since it's already been nerfed. Dont stay close to the hook of you don't wanna be hit with bt. Or just go after the one with bt then.
THIS! It's like killers just want survivors to have weak perks. Just learn to counter them. Even after the instaheals nerf I didnt see survivors complain as much. Or after any nerf for that matter.
So if i hook a survivor and the other 3 blatantly run at me and the hook right after i've put someone on the hook and they refuse to leave the area does that make me trash?
I play mostly survivor seeing as how the lobby always crashes when I try to play killer ever since the dedicated servers for console went down.
I truly don't understand how people who play killer can complain. The game is inherently built to make the killer superior to the survivors. Even the game's back story with the whole entity thing is biased towards the killer experience. I mean as far as story goes the entity doesn't snatch people up to torment the sadistic killers with a game of cat and mouse.
When the dedicated servers were up and I was able to play as killer I found it to be every bit as NOT challenging as I would have imagined it to be after having played survivor for like 3k hours.
As an example when playing as killer I abided by the following self-imposed rules from my experience of what made playing survivor totally NOT fun.
Even following these rules with no add ons and only one perk I still had to TRY not to kill all survivors or at least get 20k BP at the end of the match.
I played as every killer except for the following:
The only one out of all the killers I played as that I thought was a bit challenging was the Pig, at least until I figured out how to user her lunge attack properly.
As a killer even without any add ons or perks you are:
Faster than survivors and you gain speed the longer you are in pursuit of them
The only one in the match who can attack
Know where all the gens are
Play as survivor for a hundred hours or so and you can easily see how much more challenging it is. The only reason I can see why it is this way is because the devs rely on killers to host the match. The killers wield a lot of power because the game relies on them to be there because the game is asymmetrical. No one cares if survivors complain because it doesn't matter if a survivor rage quits a game but if a killer does then the match is over.
That's my $.02
I don’t complain about DS being used to stop tunneling.
I do complain when DS is used by survivors to do heinous criminal acts.
I, uh, did play survivor for a while. I escaped the vast majority of my games, and promptly got bored because the vast, vast majority of them where almost entirely me holding M1 for a while and then escaping, or making mindless use of pallets because if I use each pallet I come across with some even mild restraint I can take up enough time for the remaining generators to pop.
I don't believe you.
Because your entire post is based on wrong statements.
DS does not only come in effect when the killer is tunneling, read through the thread and you will see many examples where a killer didn't tunnel and yet gets hit by DS. Here is a point where I kinda doubt that you are a rank1 survivor for ages, do you expect me to believe you that you only ever used DS when you were tunneled? I highly doubt that I have seen it so many times come to use without any tunneling at all and the same goes for BT. When I do play nurse bbq, i hook a survivor yet i only blink once or i am in the middle of the blink when the person gets unhooked. So tell me why should I traverse the entire map when i can just turn around and find 2 or at least 1 survivor immediately again? The perks just give too much power even considering that only one out of four has to equip in order for the killer having to respect it.
Why do you think old ruin was used instead of devour hope when both existed? Yeah right lets assume the hex lasts, ruin made for a longer match while having a survivor exposed is neat and all but punishes the killer via emblem. Ever played billy and using the saw for curves and not only for mobility? It is a sad song good billy mains sing. Always funny to see keyboard warriors explain how people like zubat do suck for using ruin.
Oh yeah BT, BT was buffed so many times that it just is a safe unhook even tho the unhook was utterly ######### in the first place. Not the unhook itself but when it was made, alot of survivors simply unhook while the killer is around in order for him to come back while the rescuer hides. So none of the perks actually just work for their intended use but beyond it.
It is odd, you claim on the one hand map sizes are a problem yet gen pressure is good. See that doesn't make sense when maps are too big for killers to put pressure on gens how can the gen pressure be good? How do you make those assumptions about killers that they just want easy kills, 4ks and nothing else? I do not like to generalize because it is stupid. Same could be said about the other side, all survivors just want free escapes and nothing else and are super lazy who can do nothing but hold m1. Fact is that it is way easier to rank up as survivor and it is also a fact that with the dev blog entry about ruin that indeed yes the game is being catered for survivors.
SWF is the nice example for it, the mode simply gives survivors alot of perks, which they actually have to equip to obtain the info but you get it just like that. Add stuff like OoO into the mix and you have basicly the entire time complete info on the killer by all 4 survivors. The game is balanced around solo play, devs simply ignore the issue that swf brings because "goofing around with friends". Probably one of the most pathetic excuses ever to avoid having to balance the game. Alot of the toxic garbage in this game is enabled via the devs because they choose to ignore problems because to be frank, i mostly bully/troll killers because I am bored and know that I can ######### up way too much before I have to play serious. I think i am not the only one with that.
What I see is people that do want to have fair (skillwise) matches most of the time which is not possible due a ridiculous flawed matchmaking. And whenever the devs do decide to implement their superspecial superduperwooper mmr which is going to fix matchmaking, people will be unable to even see what they played against, did they do good or not? Should they have won due to mmr? Was it the expected result? Nobody will know but more importantly nobody can complain.
Oh and another contradiction is your hardcore survivor bias. DS/BT get used because killer only tunnel and camp and that explains the high usage of these perks. But on the other hand you have no problem insulting most killers for using ruin as it was used 80% by red ranked killers. Did it ever occur to you that this was due to gens/maps? Nah they are all lazy and just want easy 4ks. 🤦