Toolboxes (items), a major impact on generators?
For a generator repaired by a survivor, without any bonus or add-on, but with a toolbox, the repair time (as a reminder, the reference is 80 seconds):
Respectively, before the toolboxes reduced the repair time by 10.4 / 10.4 / 13.3 / 10.4 / 16 / 7.2 seconds.
Respectively, now the toolboxes reduce repair time by 3.2 / 6.6 / 6.8 / 10.6 / 8 / 4.8 seconds.
Small fact: a generator is repaired more quickly by two survivors without toolboxes than by a single survivor with the old Engineer's Toolbox. And not just a little: there are 20 seconds of difference.
Are these changes going to stop the killers from crying over the speed of repair? I have huge doubts. However, survivors now empty their toolbox in less than 15 seconds to gain 6 seconds of repair.
Toolboxes have never had a major impact on generator repair time. And now this one is really ridiculous. So ridiculous that this feature should just be removed. It sounds like a scam.
lol imagine needing toolboxes 🤣
yet i still have gens popping before i can reach them at the start of the game vs brown toolboxes
Are y'all serious??? "Insanely Fast Repair Speeds?" That's not a Toolbox issue! that's a Perk setup issue! Wtf is even the point of these toolboxes now. even with a really good one it'd still take me 60+ seconds which is MORE THAN ENOUGH TIME for a killer to happen in my area and look for me. Now we're stuck with these useless tin cans that deplete in 6 seconds for what, 10% of the gen?
Survivor mains have a right to be mad about this update as it doesn't affect the killer's any more or less.
you are acting like you should never be found and to leave you alone in your hold M1 simulator..
how are you pulling that from what i said?
I'm telling you how long a gen use to take, WITH A TOOLBOX, if the survivor is not found.
I never implied anything, of the sort, about wanting to not be found. My complaint is about the fact that the toolbox is useless now because it doesn't do any amount of reasonable repairing. Just because you're unlucky with finding Suvivors, doesn't mean that they're Insta-Popping Gen's as you have VERY CLEARLY pointed out in your anger over playing killer against Surv's that know how to fit a TB and setup their perks.
I wouldn't be surprised, in the least, if you constantly try to put words into other people's mouths, like you tried to do with me. Go back and read what i put and what everyone else is saying!
TB's are completely useless now, just like the Flashlight and those damn Chinese Firecrackers. But, seeing as how you responded to me about gens, i'm going to guess you'll say Flashlight's are OP and you ALWAYS get blinded and stunned by the firecrackers.
Yep, toolboxes are trash now.
The problem was never a single toolbox but how 4 with the best add-ons could finish gens much quicker then they would like.
If a change such as this makes you hate the game so much is suggest taking a break for a while. Maybe if you come back then you will realise tool boxes were never needed and they are being changed to what they should be. An item which gains a survivor a little extra speed in gen time.
The playerbase isn't dropping. Everytime changes come about some post the exact same statement. Wishing for something and it being true are quite different.
Well I'm not saying it to you and while I do want to avoid the US vs them mentality.
Roughly about one day after the ruin rework at least from my personal experience I saw survivors practically jumping at the heel to bring tookboxes in the game just to crank out gens as fast as possible.
Before you saw that much tool boxes and you were going up against a rare civil squad even more rare coordinating brand new parts team but after ruin got swabbed toolboxes for generators everywhere.
So I'm actually not that surprised that they got hit
Spoken like an entitled surv.
I liked some addons but they are weak boxes to repAir, as a solo player of course.
The problem is most of the time not the boxes but the other survivors are not doing gens or are 3 gening me. With the new boxes i cant 5 gen rush in a match solo so i need the team working and as i said that [BAD WORD] me
Yes, not to mention I think they were changed to be more utilized for hooks now that each one "unlocks" sabo... However I think that yes, they are weak on gens (but that's a good thing in my opinion for killers who aren't as skilled) but they are really good on hooks, even if they only get a few uses. I for one would like a very slight (and I mean slight) buff to the hooks returning (for survivors) so that when the hooks are sabotaged they actually take a little longer than 15-20 seconds to spawn a new one... Otherwise we're going to continue to see killers camping downed survivors (from what I've seen) until all toolboxes are used up on them.
Sad that you have little bit hard time bulliing killers with friend on comms?
Sounds like something a crybaby killer main would say. No, I agree here they were over nerfed. There’s hardly any charges to even be able to use them anymore. I’d almost rather not even bring one in because it’s literally almost useless now. It’s ridiculous how hard survivors have to work to get out alive while killers prance around Mori’ing people and moving around so swiftly. Yet they complain about perks that literally prevent the killer from preventing someone from being able to play. Toolboxes just really didn’t need that hard of a nerf. If the aim is to slow down the rate at which gens are completed then you have to slow down the rate at which the killer can kill you. Why should killers still be able to rob you of your 2nd and 3rd hook by using a Mori? I literally see an ebony one in every single blood web level in the 40s and beyond. It’s not as “ultra rare” as it should be. I’m sorry but nobody should have to be anyone’s kill every game and this game is buffing killers too much.
I never used toolboxes in the first place because they were crutches and unfun to bring because they made the game go by too damn quick and I couldn't even break 15k gen rushing. But if your gonna call the other half the community that is keeping the game alive "FOR YOU SURVIVOR MAINS" (Because the survivor community is way bigger than the killer community) cry babies. I suggest you play killer and get an understanding of why gen's go by so quick
It’s not disliking the game to complain about something that shouldn’t have been tampered with in the first place. Toolboxes are very necessary because it allows solo survivors to have a chance when they’re teams been knocked down. So many games I’ve been in where my teams constantly going down and I don’t have that extra help I need to repair gens. Because it takes WAY too long by yourself simply because the killer can easily run laps around generators before they even get any progress on it. The killers move too fast and they have too many ways to cause significant regression on generators that it’s almost not even fun to do anymore. The gens need to be more spread out In my opinion for that reason. Killers shouldn’t be able to camp gens like I’ve seen. Even with gens to do on complete opposite sides of the map, killers can still camp them. Please tell me, why is it you feel you come into a game as killer and deserve to kill anyone? 90% of the time I was seeing killers get their 4Ks. And that’s going against red and purple rank survivors. Killers are too strong. Don’t tell me you have been going into games and not being able to chase people or kill anyone because of gen speed. That’s a god damn lie. You don’t need that much time to kill all 4. It’s not fair to have someone sit on a gen for 5 hours while you’re out slaying people. It takes too long imo on most these maps because they’re either too small or gens are cramped together. survivors didn’t need that hard of a toolbox nerf. I was expecting maybe half the charges.... but 24... that’s just sad. As a killer you already get to chase people around and absorb points like crazy, it’s not really fair that killers have all that mobility or the ability to slay people after their first hook. There’s tons of issues I see with killers because of how fast someone can die. So why should they slow down gen speed without slowing killers down? It’s not fun for survivors at that point. Like I don’t want to sit on a generator for 5 hours (exaggerating) while I see teammate after teammate going down. I mean heck, the killer practically spawns on a survivor at the start of a match. You’re typically getting your first down before somebody even gets a gen done.
Are you 12?
I know, I know. It's easier to state someone is a killer main than accept that there are plenty of survivors who aren't actually bothered by the toolbox changes. I mean if it makes you feel better and everything you can cover your ears, shut your eyes and scream "LALALALA YOU'RE A KILLER MAIN I CAN'T HEAR YOU"
However my post history pretty much poops on that accusation.
I don't like Mori's any more than you do, but i deal with them as they come because they are a part of the game. If I whined about everything that got changed on either side I'd never have any fun. The simple fact is, I never relied on toolboxes in the first place, they were just a beacon for being camped in my experience, so I honestly don't care about the change. If the toolbox change is that detrimental, take a break, because stamping, screaming and accusing everyone of being a crybaby because they don't agree with you, is beyond Ironic.
That kind of response was Definitely something A 12 year old would say. Nobody’s kicking and screaming here 😂 I’m simply submitting my opinion. And I know it’s the right one. They overnerfed toolboxes.
and I don’t think toolboxes are a crutch either. You obviously didn’t read the key words solo survivor or Gen camping. It’s too easy for killers and I’ll stand by that until I see some changes. You can’t convince me otherwise. Gens are too cramped and the killers r too fast. Why shouldn’t toolboxes remain the way they were in situations where they’re needed to get that last gen done? Don’t act like you’re having that hard of a time as killer. You just suck.
How about the lag issues on survivor side and how it affects their game play? The ability for killers to get off unfair hits? I’m sorry but there’s too many unfair disadvantages on survivor side of things
wasnt that always the case? the charge amount i mean
Ahhhh still denying that I'm a survivor, well whatever works to prove your point i guess.
I spend 80% of my time solo, maybe 15% 2 man and I'll play killer once a month maybe in order to get a top up on points. I am fully aware of how hard solo is and i don't believe i said toolboxes were a crutch, they simply weren't the deciding factor for me when it came to whether or not I won a match. Literally just finished a game where i spent most of my time getting people off hooks with we'll make it and kindred. Nobody had a toolbox. 3 escapes.
You have every right to have your own opinion. You don't however get to arbitrarily decide someone is a killer main because they don't share the same opinion as you. It makes any following argument weak and childish. If somehow, the toolboxes went back to how they were, this still wouldn't bother me. It is not the end of the world, survivor, even solo survivor, is still playable with or without the nerf.
It's actually stronger if used correctly
With the new toolboxes you should aim to use them when gens are at 90% and the killer is close by, you can easily fix the gen quickly and escape with the toolbox
But I guess survivors don't use the same advice they use against killers "just adapt"
The amount of aggression coming from soylentpixie is just astonishing. I’m only submitting an opinion here. I’m not crying kicking or screaming. Besides, technically you would have no idea if I’m really doing any of those things because you’re not able to see or hear me can you? 😂 you’re just making all this up in your head, talking to me how a real 12 year old would talk to their parents when he or she is telling on someone.
we all know that’s why they got nerfed because people kept crying about them. But why? Why is it a big deal when I saw killers were still finding and downing people consistently from a solo survivor perspective? Maybe the swf teams were abusive with them ? I guess.... not enough to warrant a 100 charge decrease. It’s not that toolboxes are a crutch or one needs to focus on working together instead of worrying about toolboxes it’s more like why even have them in the game if they’re gonna get hit THAT hard. If gen speed gets slowed down then I believe killers highest potential rate of killing should be too i.e Mori’s or Michael Myers ability to insta kill. The fun of the game comes from going on chases and evading the killer. So that’s what it needs to focus on improving is letting survivors actually play the game and not feel as though I’m stuck on a hook until the final sacrifice because this guy won’t leave or if I get caught once I’m out. That’s not fun for survivors, only the killer. It’s one sided and it needs to be changed. Not nerfing toolboxes to the point that they’re unusable. Why even have them in the game?
What tilts me is there is an obvious middle ground yet they can't see it. One that is balanced and also doesn't make sabotage OP.
This was pretty much my take on it. If I do bring one in or pick one out of a chest, i try and save it for that last gen. I can see it helping out in a 3 gen situation. Assuming my toolbox doesn't get yeeted across the field by franklins of course. ;)
The changes seem pretty reasonable to me. If you required toolboxes to survive before and can't survive now then it sounds like you need to improve your skills as a survivor.
If you think about it, you dont really need toolboxes. Sure it would be nice to get gens done faster, but if you plan to gen rush, just use prove thyself. Works just as well. And you have to consider it from the killer side. Since the Ruin rework, genrushing is SO much easier now. They needed to balance out how fast gens are done. And if we are also talking about people whining, killers can complain that crybaby survivor couldn't handle old Ruin, so the devs nerfed it. You have to consider both sides here.
O man, that was difficult to read. Spacing, bud, spacing!
Now, the points. This is going to be a bit lengthy, but you made the points.
Toolboxes are not necessary for solos. Helpful, yes, but necessary? No. It only takes 80 seconds for a gen. I understand your pain with potato team mates, I really do. I've had a few matches where I've died on first hook because they were crab walking across the map, while I had Kindred! Others where I did four gens by myself and still got yelled at for not helping with the fifth. But that's part of the game. It's 'supposed' to get better the higher ranks you move into, as survivors become more experiences. You win some, lose some in that area. That doesn't mean toolboxes are necessary to complete your objective.
A killer cannot 'easily run laps' around generators, unless they're focused on the three gen. Most maps are simply too large for that. This is where map awareness comes into play. Knowing where the gens are, and keeping that in mind so you can rotate effectively.
'Killers move too fast?' I mean, really? You have jungle gyms, T walls, Killer Shack, Infinite Loops, and three thousand pallets at your disposal. All of which can be used to slow, and even stall, killers. Your job is to complete gens, yes, but it's also in your favor to waste the killers time by looping them for as long as possible. You have three others doing gens, it's not just You vs Killer (though I admit, there are times when it feels like that).
'...they have too many ways to cause significant regression on generators...' Too many ways? Most regression perks aren't all that good. Surge? Ruin? Overcharge? They're mediocre at best. Lullaby is lovely, if the Hex survives for five hooks. PGTW is the go to in most builds, and it still requires a hook to pull off.
'The gens need to be more spread out In my opinion for that reason.' They are incredibly spaced apart on most maps. On smaller maps, it can feel a bit tight, sure, but that's where map awareness I mentioned before comes into play. Don't want that three gen. You make it sound like killers move at 200% movement speed. They don't. On most maps, depending on spawn point, you can get a gen done before a killer even has a chance to make it across the map, given how large they are and the distance between gens.
Camping gens. . . I mean, I've been accused of proxy camping gens as Doc, but is this really a serious argument? If you've all gotten yourselves into a three gen, then the killer doesn't need to leave an area to go to you, you have to go to him.
'Please tell me, why is it you feel you come into a game as killer and deserve to kill anyone?' Why do you enter a game as survivor and expect to survive? It's you vs them scenario. One wins, one loses. That's the nature of the game. You shouldn't 'expect' anything. Hope, sure, strive for, yes, but expect? No.
'Killers are too strong.' Too strong? In what ways? You can't use a blanket statement without focusing it down. Are you referring to a generalize sense? That's an entirely different topic to explore, and I'd debate on that as well. Would be fun.
'Don’t tell me you have been going into games and not being able to chase people or kill anyone because of gen speed.' I've had matches where I've been completely curb stomped by the survivor team. A few days ago, I got my first hook after three gens popped as Huntress, as the survivors really, really knew how to loop that Thompson house. I managed two kills before all five popped, but that was only due to a bad mistake on their part in the basement. Without that, they would have escaped.
Gen speed by itself isn't an issue, at least in my opinion, it's map size. You said before that 'it’s almost not even fun to do anymore.' There's more to the match than sitting behind a gen and holding M1, right? Don't you want to get into chases? To loop a killer for over 30 seconds and escaping? To get the pallet stun or Head On stun? Is sitting on a gen all there is to a match?
'It’s not fair to have someone sit on a gen for 5 hours while you’re out slaying people.' Gens only take 80 seconds to complete solo. While the killer is chasing somebody, find another survivor and hammer out a gen. I don't see how 'fairness' comes into play. This is literally the game you're playing. If it's not your cup of tea, you don't need to play it. Nobody would judge you over that. You can find other games to play, and that's totally okay.
'As a killer you already get to chase people around and absorb points like crazy, it’s not really fair that killers have all that mobility or the ability to slay people after their first hook.' As a survivor you already get to be chased and absorb points like crazy. You do get points for being in a chase, you know. It's not like it's a dead zone, or a waste of time. Survivors also have a plethora of exhaustion perks that can give them a boost in speed. But you seem to have the wrong mindset here. The killer is faster, the survivor can stall. That's the balance. You're not meant to be faster, you're meant to slow them down. If you want to be faster, play killer. As for 'slaying people after first hook,' that's a mori, and a completely other subject entirely.
'So why should they slow down gen speed without slowing killers down?' They didn't slow down gen speed. Gens took 80 seconds solo a year ago, gens take 80 seconds solo now. They 'nerfed' toolboxes, and I use that loosely. They buffed their repair speed, don't forget. You can still get a good sized chunk of a gen done with a brown toolbox, if you wanted too.
'Like I don’t want to sit on a generator for 5 hours (exaggerating) while I see teammate after teammate going down.' I do agree with you on this. The current objective is boring, and a second should be added to keep things lively. Totems are that, but again, meh. Game needs a face lift.
'I mean heck, the killer practically spawns on a survivor at the start of a match.' That's pretty rare, and when it does happen, you can hide. Stealth is another component survivors have. That's why killers have a terror radius. Hide in a locker, duck behind a wall, go into a building, become one with a bush.
'You’re typically getting your first down before somebody even gets a gen done.' Rarely, and that's only if the survivor was out in the open. Remember, most matches have survivors spawning together, or near each other, unless an offering was used to negate that. Personally, I feel like it's a good day when that happens.
Honestly, your post comes off as a yellow rank survivor. Much of the points you made don't happen in higher levels of play. Doesn't mean I don't have potatoes in my red ranked games, they're there, but most know what they're doing. In early ranks, killers have the advantage. It's easier to be killer than survivor. Yet, the higher you go, the more that changes, to where survivors are the power role. I suggest you play killer more, get to those high ranks, and see the stark difference between those early ranks, where you're pub stomping newbies, to being curb stomped by that pesky Meg who can loop with the best of them.
Now, i'm not going to say the solo life is easy. It's challenging. It will usually always be challenging, but that's what you signed up for. I'm not against changes, or buffs in that area, but you have to remember that SWF is a thing. You want an easier time, get a couple buddies with you. Comms go a very long way in easing the game. But as a solo? Yes, you're going to get stomped sometimes. You'll then stomp in other games. Again, that's the nature of the game.
The Ruin change was one of the most short sighted things the devs have every done.
Here is what I propose. ALL solo survivors, little to no charge degradation for toolboxes. For each SWF member, the degradation retains a certain percentage.